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[Discussion] Infinite Map Size?

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MenuET
  • MenuET

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#1

Posted 10 August 2014 - 01:05 AM Edited by MenuET, 10 August 2014 - 01:37 AM.

Hi there.

 

I was thinking about it some time ago and, as i am just a 3D a modeler and i don't understand the GTA Editing in itself quite well, i want to discuss the possibility to contour the GTA engine limits and break the map size limits to infinite size (or any size we want). I want to reminder that i don't have plans to make a HUGE mod, but i think that conversation will drive us to something constructive.

 

At first,

As far as i know about GTA is that any GTA have its co-ordinates limits (maximum co-ordinates numbers at X, like 0.0000 to 546.0000), and any of these co-ordinates are a float number (float number, for dummies, are a non-integer number like 2,5; 7,543; 35,374...), and, by the logic, inside a float number has infinity other float numbers (i.e. inside 5 we have 5,2; 5,54; 5,65, and inside 5,2 we have 5,23543; 5,22423; 5,2856756...).

 

Following that logic, at a co-ordinate number, we have infinite numbers inside on it. Think about instead of trying to raise the co-ordinate numbers limits, multiply a 5x5 co-ordinate grid by 10 (50x50) just by constructing your new mod with the models 10x smaller than the normal size, and editing anything you need on the script and data files to fit camera, handling, and etcetera and making every thing fit quite well in just ONE co-ordinate number. Double your co-ordinate number capacity by shrinking objects. That is my first point.

...........................................................................................................................................................................................................

 

At second point,

We all know how house interiors works. It has another 16 or 17 worlds for the interiors and just ONE for the outside, conventional map. When we cross a door in game, we are crossing a portal that drives you from World 1(Outside) to any of 17 interior worlds.

 

As GTA San Andreas already did with Liberty City, and GTA V already did with a country town, why can't we just model another map inside one of 17 interior worlds, and use a big portal on sea (Like a big door) in two worlds to drive us from one world to another? Basically transforming one interior world to another exterior world (a new map) and keep the world 1(default map) intact. Think about that. It is possible at some way.

 

About the first possibility (keeping co-ordinates and shrinking objects) i already saw a example used on Source engine (Which have a very limited map limit) and it worked. The guy extended the map limits 10x just by shrinking everyting 10x. About the second possibility, is is also a plausible idea.

 

Well, thanks for attention.

  • Ss4gogeta0 likes this

Jestic
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#2

Posted 18 August 2014 - 11:36 PM

NTAuthority is cracking the limits. Wether he'll release it seperately from ViIV\Citizen is not known to me.

Just wondering something, you say you are a modeler, do you ever expect to fill the entire map limit while maintaining GTAIV quality models?


RanZY
  • RanZY

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#3

Posted 01 September 2014 - 09:13 PM

wtf? viiv project not solve problem map i try add other pice of map gta v but the game crash


NTAuthority
  • NTAuthority

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#4

Posted 02 September 2014 - 04:24 AM

wtf? viiv project not solve problem map i try add other pice of map gta v but the game crash

... are you even using it on CitizenFX? The old alpha 1 build does not support as many map objects.

fefenc
  • fefenc

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#5

Posted 02 September 2014 - 02:02 PM Edited by fefenc, 02 September 2014 - 02:03 PM.

I think Ranzy is trying to do his own V map project.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

pice, euheuheuehuehueu


BishopMKMM
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#6

Posted 15 May 2015 - 11:15 PM

Still tho, it would be nice to discuss the methods or theories about how to make this happen


Bone34
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#7

Posted 16 May 2015 - 09:53 AM

GTA 5 has map boundaries of 9 x 16 KM, but it would be cool if NTA will have success on cracking them.


Silent
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#8

Posted 16 May 2015 - 10:36 AM

GTA 5 has map boundaries of 9 x 16 KM, but it would be cool if NTA will have success on cracking them.


Wouldn't it be better if there were some map mods before that? First things first.

gangster2332
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#9

Posted 16 May 2015 - 09:51 PM

minecraft is infinite. with sone coding, it should be possible for gta to be infinite too.

BunnyPig
  • BunnyPig

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#10

Posted 17 May 2015 - 07:18 AM

minecraft is infinite. with sone coding, it should be possible for gta to be infinite too.

That's not entirely true, minecraft isn't infinite.

After a certain distance the world gets all screwed up because of limitations to the system. Now, it's basically infinite if you can Stand that corrupted world but it's still broken.

Gta and minecraft are also built on 2 entirely different engines, the RAGE engine does not allow infinite worlds. Although if we can find the limitation we can only adjust it in a 32-bits rule.

oscar230
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#11

Posted 17 May 2015 - 06:30 PM

Hi there.

 

I was thinking about it some time ago and, as i am just a 3D a modeler and i don't understand the GTA Editing in itself quite well, i want to discuss the possibility to contour the GTA engine limits and break the map size limits to infinite size (or any size we want). I want to reminder that i don't have plans to make a HUGE mod, but i think that conversation will drive us to something constructive.

 

At first,

As far as i know about GTA is that any GTA have its co-ordinates limits (maximum co-ordinates numbers at X, like 0.0000 to 546.0000), and any of these co-ordinates are a float number (float number, for dummies, are a non-integer number like 2,5; 7,543; 35,374...), and, by the logic, inside a float number has infinity other float numbers (i.e. inside 5 we have 5,2; 5,54; 5,65, and inside 5,2 we have 5,23543; 5,22423; 5,2856756...).

 

Following that logic, at a co-ordinate number, we have infinite numbers inside on it. Think about instead of trying to raise the co-ordinate numbers limits, multiply a 5x5 co-ordinate grid by 10 (50x50) just by constructing your new mod with the models 10x smaller than the normal size, and editing anything you need on the script and data files to fit camera, handling, and etcetera and making every thing fit quite well in just ONE co-ordinate number. Double your co-ordinate number capacity by shrinking objects. That is my first point.

...........................................................................................................................................................................................................

 

At second point,

We all know how house interiors works. It has another 16 or 17 worlds for the interiors and just ONE for the outside, conventional map. When we cross a door in game, we are crossing a portal that drives you from World 1(Outside) to any of 17 interior worlds.

 

As GTA San Andreas already did with Liberty City, and GTA V already did with a country town, why can't we just model another map inside one of 17 interior worlds, and use a big portal on sea (Like a big door) in two worlds to drive us from one world to another? Basically transforming one interior world to another exterior world (a new map) and keep the world 1(default map) intact. Think about that. It is possible at some way.

 

About the first possibility (keeping co-ordinates and shrinking objects) i already saw a example used on Source engine (Which have a very limited map limit) and it worked. The guy extended the map limits 10x just by shrinking everyting 10x. About the second possibility, is is also a plausible idea.

 

Well, thanks for attention.

you're on to something, keep on digging!! :D


SonofUgly
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#12

Posted 17 May 2015 - 08:33 PM

GTA 5 has map boundaries of 9 x 16 KM, but it would be cool if NTA will have success on cracking them.

According to NTA "collision quadtree creation shows -8192 to 8192 on both sides, so 16384x16384." And playerinfo shows the world limits as 16k x 16k, and seeing as all previous GTAs have had square map limits before (AFAIK), I think it's pretty probable that's our boundary.
Which is big enough to fit III, VC, SA, IV and V's map all together... without moving Los Santos... and with room for an addition 6 Vice Citys.
That'll probably be big enough for a while.
  • cybert likes this

Causeless
  • Causeless

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#13

Posted 20 May 2015 - 02:40 PM Edited by Causeless, 20 May 2015 - 02:40 PM.

Following that logic, at a co-ordinate number, we have infinite numbers inside on it. Think about instead of trying to raise the co-ordinate numbers limits, multiply a 5x5 co-ordinate grid by 10 (50x50) just by constructing your new mod with the models 10x smaller than the normal size, and editing anything you need on the script and data files to fit camera, handling, and etcetera and making every thing fit quite well in just ONE co-ordinate number. Double your co-ordinate number capacity by shrinking objects. That is my first point.

 

You'd run into numerical precision errors. This part isn't true: 

 

"and, by the logic, inside a float number has infinity other float numbers"

 

Floats do not have infinite precision. There's many values which cannot be stored by a float - for example, the exact value of 0.1 is actually impossible to store in a binary float. If you tried to store 0.1, instead the float would store the closest possible value it can actually represent, or 0.100000001490116119384765625 to be exact.

 

I could go on for ages about explaining why this is and all the limitations of the system, but here's the end result - making everything smaller is not a magic bullet. Making everything smaller results in bugs, weird physics, animations jumps and/or glitches, particle physics issues... and each of these problems becomes worse and worse the smaller you make things.

  • Deji likes this

Nerdman3000
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#14

Posted 24 May 2015 - 02:56 PM Edited by Nerdman3000, 24 May 2015 - 02:56 PM.

I think I'd like to see this done. Perhaps we could get Gifbrah's San Andreas fan map actually created in the game.


Deji
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#15

Posted 25 May 2015 - 12:44 PM

For me the question isn't about limits, it's about how worthwhile breaking them would actually be. You could put the VC map in SA for example, but what's a map without paths and fitting ped/vehicle models? The atmosphere will be SA-ish, etc.

Adding on to SA would be great if you ask me, but then where are all the modellers, texturers and such to actually do some original work? I wouldn't break limits just so some cheap ports could be done.

I don't really see many map mods out there which are only limited by the limits on map scale... so why bother breaking the limits? If I had a large mod with some mappers, then I'd certainly attempt to work my way around the limits - but it seems kinda pointless to break limits for "no mod in particular".
  • Jestic, Wesser and Silent like this

Nerdman3000
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#16

Posted 25 May 2015 - 07:33 PM Edited by Nerdman3000, 25 May 2015 - 07:34 PM.

For me the question isn't about limits, it's about how worthwhile breaking them would actually be. You could put the VC map in SA for example, but what's a map without paths and fitting ped/vehicle models? The atmosphere will be SA-ish, etc.

Adding on to SA would be great if you ask me, but then where are all the modellers, texturers and such to actually do some original work? I wouldn't break limits just so some cheap ports could be done.

I don't really see many map mods out there which are only limited by the limits on map scale... so why bother breaking the limits? If I had a large mod with some mappers, then I'd certainly attempt to work my way around the limits - but it seems kinda pointless to break limits for "no mod in particular".

You could always reuse assets from other games that have Las Vegas and San Francisco. The Crew for example, with some work to polish it, could be used as models to create Las Ventruas and San Fierro. Of course the interiors would be a different story. That's just a suggestion of course.


masterskywalker
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#17

Posted 30 May 2015 - 03:28 PM

Whats up buddys, i have one question:

Can i edit hidden liberty city with any tool?

Because i'll be awesome if you can put two maps, like SA and teletransport do Liberty City (or another converted city).





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