Quantcast

Jump to content

» «
Photo

RX-8 questions.

21 replies to this topic
Zackyoung1
  • Zackyoung1

    Rat

  • Members
  • Joined: 10 Jun 2014
  • United-States

#1

Posted 04 August 2014 - 07:47 AM

So I'm pretty set on getting an RX-8 and I was wondering about some performance issues. First off my budget is 10,000 and I'm looking at a RX-8 now for 6,500, so I'd have about 3,5000 left for performance parts. My first question is how much HP can I get on an automatic without destroying the clutch and not killing the mpg?


sivispacem
  • sivispacem

    Faceless, Nameless, Endless War

  • Moderator
  • Joined: 14 Feb 2011
  • United-Kingdom
  • Contribution Award [D&D, General Chat]
    Most Knowledgeable [Vehicles] 2013
    Best Debater 2013, 2012, 2011

#2

Posted 04 August 2014 - 08:47 AM

The MPG is sh*te anyway- 18 if you're lucky. Clutches are fairly hardy

You can't get much additional power out of the rotaries without resorting to forced induction (expensive) or internal machining (expensive). There are several UK companies that do software/exhaust/intake "power packs" for them but you'll only see 20hp gain for about half your budget.

Personally, I'd buy a custom cat-back exhaust and save the remaining $3k for the inevitable engine rebuild.

$6,500 seems very steep though. These can be had for under £2k in the UK, primarily because people get rather tired of paying the entire value of the car for an engine rebuild every 30k.
  • Zackyoung1 likes this

Mpower
  • Mpower

    Thug

  • Members
  • Joined: 13 Dec 2008
  • None

#3

Posted 04 August 2014 - 08:59 AM

Take a look at this :

 

www.rx8club.com/new-member-forum-197/new-potential-owners-start-here-202454/


Zyo
  • Zyo

    Homie

  • Members
  • Joined: 29 Oct 2007
  • Scotland

#4

Posted 04 August 2014 - 02:09 PM

Yeah they eat engines. 3 in 100k is not unusual. Before you start bolting on parts, budget some of that 3500 for a compression test to get an idea of engine condition. The rotor wear issue is a big deal. Also if you are really that bothered about mpg, you are probably looking at the wrong car. These are great machines but they are expensive to run.

  • BaM BooZeLLed likes this

epoxi
  • epoxi

    Your Mother

  • Andolini Mafia Family
  • Joined: 05 Sep 2003
  • None

#5

Posted 04 August 2014 - 05:36 PM

Are the rotary engine's flaws a consequence of its design, or simply a case that it has not been refined by the market in the same way as the piston engine has?

I am surprised Mazda's rotary offerings continue to sell so well through the RX-7s and RX-8 considering their reputation, that must be one die-hard fanbase. I couldn't imagine buying a brand new sports car knowing it is going to fail within 3 years.

BaM BooZeLLed
  • BaM BooZeLLed

    Scooby Guy

  • Members
  • Joined: 25 Sep 2013
  • United-States

#6

Posted 04 August 2014 - 05:40 PM

The motors pop at 80,000miles I've seen 3 and heard of more.

 

So if you want performance start building a motor. 


sivispacem
  • sivispacem

    Faceless, Nameless, Endless War

  • Moderator
  • Joined: 14 Feb 2011
  • United-Kingdom
  • Contribution Award [D&D, General Chat]
    Most Knowledgeable [Vehicles] 2013
    Best Debater 2013, 2012, 2011

#7

Posted 04 August 2014 - 05:45 PM

Bit of both. By the very nature of the engines the seal between rotor and housing permits some gas movement between the two even when hot, unlike a piston engine at full thermal expansion. It's one of the reasons that they burning so much oil.

There are high tech ways of getting round it but they increase engine cost dramatically. Unequal thermal expansion is the biggest issue, necessitating use of ceramic or inconel "blocks" to prevent increased leak between combustion ports, the rotor apex seal wear issue and incomplete combustion due to the poor shape of the combustion chamber are the biggest issues.
  • epoxi likes this

Zackyoung1
  • Zackyoung1

    Rat

  • Members
  • Joined: 10 Jun 2014
  • United-States

#8

Posted 04 August 2014 - 05:56 PM

sounds like the rotary is what is bringing the car down, could I just replace it with a V-6? haha


sivispacem
  • sivispacem

    Faceless, Nameless, Endless War

  • Moderator
  • Joined: 14 Feb 2011
  • United-Kingdom
  • Contribution Award [D&D, General Chat]
    Most Knowledgeable [Vehicles] 2013
    Best Debater 2013, 2012, 2011

#9

Posted 04 August 2014 - 06:07 PM

LSx series transplants are fairly popular. Few off the shelf kits for them but that's not exactly cheap.

I know of a coupled of VW 1.8 20VT powered ones too.

Zackyoung1
  • Zackyoung1

    Rat

  • Members
  • Joined: 10 Jun 2014
  • United-States

#10

Posted 04 August 2014 - 08:49 PM

I don't know why but I'm so set on getting this car, I've already found some new ways to increase the mpg so I'm pretty content with that. However I know its a fast car but I really want to make it a sports car, I read that if I port and tune the car I'll get 350hp out of it and if I swap the REW and TII ill get 500hp out of it. Now I know a car with 500hp won't get good mpg however I'm able to get gas rather cheap from a friend so I don't car about that, however what I worry about is that since this engine needs to be rebuilt every 30k miles would putting more than 400hp ruin the motor faster?

 

Also I I had a BMW with maybe 250hp and it was like a rocket compared to what I had driven, and then I just rode in my friends mustang which he says has about 320hp and that felt fast as hell, we did 120 really easy, so if I put 350-500hp in the rx-8 how fast will that be?


sivispacem
  • sivispacem

    Faceless, Nameless, Endless War

  • Moderator
  • Joined: 14 Feb 2011
  • United-Kingdom
  • Contribution Award [D&D, General Chat]
    Most Knowledgeable [Vehicles] 2013
    Best Debater 2013, 2012, 2011

#11

Posted 04 August 2014 - 09:35 PM

You won't improve the MPG on a rotary without rebuilding it. You also won't get 350bhp out of an N/A 13B-MSP. Well, not in a road-drivable application on pump gas anyway. A bridge port will net you maybe 15-20hp with accompanying mods. A built, ported N/A 20B with lots of expensive bells and whistles will do 350-400bhp on 100 octane.

A 500bhp REW is going to be very expensive. You're looking at about a grand for the turbo alone, plus porting, intake, cooling, a decent rebuild with fresh apex seals...A faster and cheaper route to a 500bhp RX8 would probably be a cammed LSx.

Yes, generally increased power reduces engine lifespan.

Forgive me if I treat your comments about previous vehicles with some scepticism given that you're 17 and seem to be making lots of big claims without much of a coherent knowledge base to support them.

Zackyoung1
  • Zackyoung1

    Rat

  • Members
  • Joined: 10 Jun 2014
  • United-States

#12

Posted 04 August 2014 - 09:45 PM

I have very little knowledge about cars, its pretty damn obvious I like any other kid just want a fast car haha thanks for the help though :)


sivispacem
  • sivispacem

    Faceless, Nameless, Endless War

  • Moderator
  • Joined: 14 Feb 2011
  • United-Kingdom
  • Contribution Award [D&D, General Chat]
    Most Knowledgeable [Vehicles] 2013
    Best Debater 2013, 2012, 2011

#13

Posted 04 August 2014 - 09:52 PM

Well it's good that you admit you have more to learn. Too many kids come into this section with idiotic claims and images stolen from eBay pretending exotic and interesting stuff is theirs.personally I live the RX8 but the biggest problem IMO is the engine.
  • Zackyoung1 likes this

Lurch
  • Lurch

    Yeah...pretty much.

  • The Connection
  • Joined: 23 Feb 2009
  • NATO
  • Best Contributor [Vehicles] 2012

#14

Posted 05 August 2014 - 07:54 AM

Great chassis, sh*tty engine. I'd personally stay well away from RX8's for that reason.  

I don't get the question of "how much HP can I get on an automatic without destroying the clutch and not killing the mpg?"  

 

Because if you want an automatic RX8, that's an even worse idea than a manual one. Those engines have to rev to live. 


sivispacem
  • sivispacem

    Faceless, Nameless, Endless War

  • Moderator
  • Joined: 14 Feb 2011
  • United-Kingdom
  • Contribution Award [D&D, General Chat]
    Most Knowledgeable [Vehicles] 2013
    Best Debater 2013, 2012, 2011

#15

Posted 05 August 2014 - 09:09 AM

Did they even make an automatic RX8?

Zyo
  • Zyo

    Homie

  • Members
  • Joined: 29 Oct 2007
  • Scotland

#16

Posted 05 August 2014 - 01:53 PM Edited by zyonig, 05 August 2014 - 01:54 PM.

Rule number one of getting better performance out of a car. Don't buy the auto version. DO that before you tune anything.

 

My current car is an automatic and I am bored of it. I actually made a shortlist of replacements for it recently and the RX8 was on the list. I went off of it simply because of the engine issues that are being talked about in this very thread.


Lurch
  • Lurch

    Yeah...pretty much.

  • The Connection
  • Joined: 23 Feb 2009
  • NATO
  • Best Contributor [Vehicles] 2012

#17

Posted 05 August 2014 - 04:50 PM

Did they even make an automatic RX8?

They sure as sh*t do. My friend's wife has one. Total piece of sh*t. 


Ruuussia
  • Ruuussia

    VW Lover

  • Members
  • Joined: 04 Jul 2014
  • None

#18

Posted 05 August 2014 - 04:58 PM Edited by Ruuussia, 05 August 2014 - 05:05 PM.

BMW M3 e36 321HP m8


Lurch
  • Lurch

    Yeah...pretty much.

  • The Connection
  • Joined: 23 Feb 2009
  • NATO
  • Best Contributor [Vehicles] 2012

#19

Posted 05 August 2014 - 05:40 PM

BMW M3 e36 321HP m8

Looks like OP is from the states so only 240hp m8.  :turn:

  • sivispacem likes this

rider2004
  • rider2004

    Rotary Power

  • New Members
  • Joined: 02 Aug 2014
  • United-States

#20

Posted 07 August 2014 - 08:04 PM

I just hopped around this site today looking for stuff about Rotaries.  I've owned two so far an NA 90 RX7 FC convertible.  I'll admit i had some issues out of that 13B, but the engine alone had well over 100k miles on it, not the body, body had more.  The trick with rotaries, any engine, is proper maintenance for that engine.  It makes me sick when I see people saying ever 30k miles you'll have to replace the engine (dead wrong.)  The only reason that you'd have to do that is if you forget, don't care, or simply loose all the oil.  Yes, they burn oil, but so does every single reciprocating engine on the market. 

In fact, this was posted above

 

http://www.rx8club.c...rt-here-202454/

 

Go to this website, if you want an RX8, which i own one and I've put well over 50k miles on mine, and i got it with over 50k on it.  I know the engine was replaced in one of Mazda's genius ideas to not do service but simply replace the engines.  You will here people having their engines replaced all to often.  I will agree with the post above about the automatic transmission they have less power, and a lower rev limit so that it doesn't destroy the transmissions avoid them like the plague. 

I'm going to end this rant with a website, you should signup for, read, learn, love.

 

http://www.rx8club.c...rt-here-202454/


sivispacem
  • sivispacem

    Faceless, Nameless, Endless War

  • Moderator
  • Joined: 14 Feb 2011
  • United-Kingdom
  • Contribution Award [D&D, General Chat]
    Most Knowledgeable [Vehicles] 2013
    Best Debater 2013, 2012, 2011

#21

Posted 07 August 2014 - 08:47 PM

Thing is, by and large they do eat engines at an alarming rate precisely because many of the owners didn't, and currently don't, know that they require additional care and attention, particularly around oil changes and servicing. There's a lack of specialists dealing in rotaries due in part to how uncommon they are. I appreciate that a pampered 13B won't sh*t itself every 30k, but most (or at least a very large proportion of) RX8s in particular haven't been pampered. They're sports cars; often driven hard from cold by non-enthusiast owners and the fact they're so cheap in comparison to vehicles of similar performance makes them even more prone to abuse.

rider2004
  • rider2004

    Rotary Power

  • New Members
  • Joined: 02 Aug 2014
  • United-States

#22

Posted 07 August 2014 - 11:07 PM

Thing is, by and large they do eat engines at an alarming rate precisely because many of the owners didn't, and currently don't, know that they require additional care and attention, particularly around oil changes and servicing. There's a lack of specialists dealing in rotaries due in part to how uncommon they are. I appreciate that a pampered 13B won't sh*t itself every 30k, but most (or at least a very large proportion of) RX8s in particular haven't been pampered. They're sports cars; often driven hard from cold by non-enthusiast owners and the fact they're so cheap in comparison to vehicles of similar performance makes them even more prone to abuse.

With that, sadly, you are correct. 

As an enthusiast, and mechanic, i understand what is needed to keep the engine going for a long time, and still have fun with her, and I'll admit that most don't.  Simply people do exactly what you say and not take care of it correctly.   There are so many things that need to be done to maintain a rotary correctly.  That is due fully to the lack of the owner, not the engine.  If you treated a piston engine from the 1950s  the same way it wouldn't last that long either.  The reason that i put it like that is because the practical rotary as we know it hasn't been around all that long, and assuming that we use Mr Ford's mass produced piston engines as the benchmark, we are in the 50s or less of rotary development.  Mazda is the only company to still fiddle with the engine design and mechanics to make it a better and a more viable option.  Hell it runs so well on hydrogen (the most prevalent element) that they where going to couple it with an electric engine as a generator.  But unless you're in California it is next to impossible to get hydrogen in the consumer marketplace.

You also mentioned that support for the rotary is limited, as far as mechanic professionals goes.  Here in the states there are a few more than I'd bet in the UK.  But then again it is a niche market, so a little searching is needed. 

That's why i like

www.rx7club.com and www.rx8club.com

They help to clear up the fog. 





1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users