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SA - Several Skin Rigging Problems

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Rai1994
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#1

Posted 03 August 2014 - 10:07 PM Edited by Rai1994, 04 August 2014 - 04:59 AM.

First of all, I apologize as this is my 3rd topic regarding skin rigging problems. My first 2 threads haven't been posted in since at least 8 months but they never got me any help and I continuously have rigging problems. I am just tired of it, I want to create skin mods myself because I hate requesting for someone to rig something. And I want to "give back" to the GTA Modding Community. I may come off as "rude" in this topic, but in reality, that's not how I am. I've just gotten to my boiling point with these issues that I cannot, for the life of me, fix. So if anyone knows what I could possibly be doing wrong, or what is cause these, please take a few minutes to help me..

 

Problem One - Textures: No matter HOW many times I try rigging a model, the textures ALWAYS stretch and become ugly. I have tried fixing the model bugs via the Skin > Edit Envolopes > Verticles > Rigid > Etc, but that does not fix this problem. When I open the exported skin in 3DSMax and apply textures, the stretched texture problem appears there as well. I know I cannot release this here, but this is a skin I made of Sora from Kingdom Hearts that has this issue:

TexturesGlitch.png

 

If you look at his left shoulder, there is a stretched version of the yellow bit of one of the textures. It is not supposed to appear that way. But as you can see, there are several other places on the model in which the problem affects.

 

Problem Two - Alpha Layer: I cannot create a skin mod that has Alpha layers. If I try creating one, when I test the skin in San Andreas, the game doesn't crash, but it becomes unresponsive. I can still open the pause menu and click on "Resume", "Start New Game", "Options", etc. What would cause this?. I have figure out how to utilize Alpha layers on a whim. I was apparently applying them incorrectly in TXD Workshop. I randomly decided to try something and it had worked.

 

Problem Three - Polygons: Earlier today, I tried rigging a simple low poly model of Mr. Mackey from South Park. When I tried viewing the skin in game, I saw the typical bone bugs but quite a few polygons of Mr. Mackey's head disappeared or became jumbled up with some other polygons. I tried fixing the bone bugs but that didn't fix the polygons. Anyone know what causes this? (This one is less of a pressing matter at the moment. I'm more concerned with the stretched/distorted texture problem.)


Shmoopy
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#2

Posted 04 August 2014 - 12:36 AM

Send me the model with the txd file and I'll tell you whats wrong with it.


Rai1994
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#3

Posted 04 August 2014 - 03:48 AM Edited by Rai1994, 04 August 2014 - 06:47 AM.

Send me the model with the txd file and I'll tell you whats wrong with it.

 Which one are you refering to? Mr. Mackey or Sora?

 

EDIT: Something I should have added about the Texture Problem. It I re-import a model into 3D Studio Max, then apply a texture, it appears just as it does in San Andreas, distorted and stretched.

 

EDIT 2: After messing around with it for awhile I think the texture problem is from UVs getting scrambled upon export, which is possibly what's causing the textures from becoming distorted.. This problem is by no means resolved though. If this is the case, how to I change the UVs back to the original UVs or is there a way to prevent the UVs from getting scrambled in the first place? This is really frustrating me......


Shmoopy
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#4

Posted 04 August 2014 - 02:15 PM

EDIT 2: After messing around with it for awhile I think the texture problem is from UVs getting scrambled upon export, which is possibly what's causing the textures from becoming distorted.. This problem is by no means resolved though. If this is the case, how to I change the UVs back to the original UVs or is there a way to prevent the UVs from getting scrambled in the first place? This is really frustrating me......

 

 

Generally the models that you download from the Internet are already UV wrapped, so all you have to do is rig and skin it according to the proportions of gta sa, you should not modify the UV mapping , that way you'll avoid the textures mess.

 

Lets assume for example that you want to import this model to gta sa:

l39277-piers-42582.gif

As you see it is already textured , if it is in .obj format , then you won't have any problem in importing it along with the textures since 3ds max will automatically detect the directory of the textures , So you'll do File->Import and you select the model , along with this one you'll of course import a gta sa ped model as a reference , and then you'll adjust the new model's proportions to fit the gta sa's one ,  then you begin skinning it and applying weight to the bones according to the gta sa standards. After you fininshed rigging the new model you'll export as dff , you should not do any texturing , just import the images that came with the model to a txd archive and import them to gta3.img with any tool.

 

I hope that i was clear about this , you can send me the model that is messed up ( one model ) so i can check it out.


Rai1994
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#5

Posted 04 August 2014 - 04:46 PM

 

Generally the models that you download from the Internet are already UV wrapped, so all you have to do is rig and skin it according to the proportions of gta sa, you should not modify the UV mapping , that way you'll avoid the textures mess.

 

 

 

Well, that's one thing that I'm confused about... I never modify the UV mapping. I do the usual steps and it still happens.


Shmoopy
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#6

Posted 05 August 2014 - 10:15 AM

Then send me the model + txd + internet model if possible , put them in a zip archive and send them to me , i can't tell the problem without checking them with 3ds max.


Rai1994
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#7

Posted 11 August 2014 - 05:18 AM Edited by Rai1994, 24 August 2014 - 05:58 PM.

Problem is still unresolved, but I've been trying a few things here and there to try pinpointing the problem.

 

Since the texture problem seems to happen upon exporting the new model after it's been rigged, I decided to try seeing if the problem initially happens when I export the San Andreas model(In my case, I use fam2.dff) after the bones get repositioned to match the model I try to convert. After I re-import the San Andreas Model with rotated bones and such, I applied it's original texture from fam2.txd. I inspected the edited fam2 model with the texture applied and the texture problem does not appear to be effecting the modified bones San Andreas model. So the Texture problem has to be occurring either when I attach the San Andreas model to my model, OR when I export the model the model after rigging my model.

 

These are the steps that I take when I try to rig my model. Please tell me ANYTHING you see that I am doing incorrectly.

 

1. I import my model as a .obj with all textures already applied.

2. I import the San Andreas model(fam2.dff) using IFP IO(Because one tutorial said to use it rather than DFF IO because it automatically 'skins' the character.)

3. I resize my model to be accurate scale compared to the San Andreas as if it were still in the original game it was from. (In my case, Sora is 15 so I resize him to be about his actual height when compared to San Andreas peds.)

4. I rotate the bones of the San Andreas model to the correct angles that my model is in, then I move the bone joints so they fit were my models bone joints(elbows/knees/etc..) would be.

5. I select the San Andreas model and export it using DFF IO by clicking bones/skin export while 'Skip COL' is checked.

6. I re-import the San Andreas with the bones repositioned using IFP IO again.

7. I then re-align my model to the San Andreas model. Sometimes by moving my model, other times by moving the San Andreas model and bones.

8. I select my model the go to 'Hierarchy' then click on 'Affect Pivot Only', and change all values of 'Select and Move' to zero. Then I change all values of 'Select and Rotate' to zero. I leave 'Hierarchy'.

9. While my model is still selected, I click on 'Reset XForm' and then 'Reset Selected'. Then I leave 'Reset XForm'.

10. I select the San Andreas model and click on 'Editable Mesh', then 'Vertex'.

11. I select all vertices of the San Andreas model then I click on 'Attach' and click on my model. I leave 'Attach' and delete the San Andreas Model.

 

I never try to fix the typical bugs right away because whether I fix them or not, the texture problem still persists. But the problem only appears when I re-import the new model and apply textures. But like I said, It's not because I don't fix the bugs right away because one time I tried fixing them but the problem was still there.

 

I really need help with this... I have no idea what I'm doing wrong. It doesn't effect just one model, but every single one I TRY rigging. I want to be able to create my OWN skins. I don't want to have to come to an advanced skin mod creator to request a skin every time I want a skin created. :/ I can't feel the element of success by doing that... There's some skins that I want to play as that haven't been created yet, and I want to create them... I'm not a big fan of being stuck with just doing recolors/retextures of clothing that's already rigged from the game... :/

 

I mean, I know there are some skins of characters from Kingdom Hearts out there, but I'm not exactly...satisfied..I guess is one way I could describe it, with them.. I mean absolutely NO disrespect toward the creators of those skins. The models I have of Kingdom Hearts characters were extracted from my own Kingdom Hearts II game disk and I was able to extract them with their original bones so I can reposition them to be in a more favorable pose(If I didn't reposition the original Kingdom Hearts II bones for Sora, his shorts would be extremely difficult to re-assign to the correct bones.) to re-rig them for GTA San Andreas.


Shmoopy
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#8

Posted 24 August 2014 - 09:57 PM

4. I rotate the bones of the San Andreas model to the correct angles that my model is in, then I move the bone joints so they fit were my models bone joints(elbows/knees/etc..) would be.
5. I select the San Andreas model and export it using DFF IO by clicking bones/skin export while 'Skip COL' is checked.
6. I re-import the San Andreas with the bones repositioned using IFP IO again.
7. I then re-align my model to the San Andreas model. Sometimes by moving my model, other times by moving the San Andreas model and bones.

8. I select my model the go to 'Hierarchy' then click on 'Affect Pivot Only', and change all values of 'Select and Move' to zero. Then I change all values of 'Select and Rotate' to zero. I leave 'Hierarchy'.
9. While my model is still selected, I click on 'Reset XForm' and then 'Reset Selected'. Then I leave 'Reset XForm'.
 
 

 
4.It should be the other way around, this is the most important step in rigging, its the new model that should be fit to the fam2.dff by doing +Editable Mesh > Vertex and selecting each arm and leg and rotating them to fit the ones of fam2.dff , that way u'll have a 90% rate of success of the weight distribution over the new model and you'll avoid the 5th 6th 7th 8th and the 9th step .
 

I never try to fix the typical bugs right away because whether I fix them or not, the texture problem still persists. But the problem only appears when I re-import the new model and apply textures.

Bugs should be fixed before exporting the model , the way to fix bugs is simple , you rotate each bone to a certain degree and you look for any deformed area , if you spot one , that means that one or more vertices are assigned to the wrong bone : develop +Skin > envelopes > Edit Bones > Tick "Select vertices" > select the concerned bone , you'll see the weight applied ( colors red orange blues ect ...) look for any vertices that should not be linked to that bone and select them > click on Exclude vertices and then click Include vertices .

After you've fixed the bugs , you should do a final check by opening the ped.ifp with IFP IO and applying the Walk_player animation on your model , if everything looks neat and you don't see any deformation or anything like that , then you're ready to export the model : select only the model ( Click on the model with out selecting the bones ) and go to DFF IO > Export Bones . And Thats it !

 

I hope that my little explanation was clear , feel free to ask for any disambiguation .


 


Rai1994
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#9

Posted 25 August 2014 - 06:11 PM

It seems that either way I try it the texture UV scrambling problem still persists.. :/ I really do not get why this is happening to very few people while everyone else can rig something with no problems. I can fix the bones/vertex weights things no problem. But whenever I try creating a skin the textures UVs get scrambled. I have made one skin (Which was Link from The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time.) before a few years ago and did not have this UV problem. Only vertex/bone weight I had to fix was very minor, just his nose. That was it. But it did not have the UV problem. Any time I try making a skin now I do the same steps I did when I made a link skin, but get the UV problem.


Rai1994
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#10

Posted 01 September 2014 - 10:46 PM Edited by Rai1994, 01 September 2014 - 10:46 PM.

BUMP: Solution

 

Sorry for double posting! I just wanted to give a little update. I am no longer having the texture problem! The solution to the problem for me was that the model I want to rig has to be a .3DS file. I can't guarantee that my solution will work for anyone else but it's worth a shot. If your model is not a .3DS file and you don't know how to convert it, all you have to do is import your model into 3DS Max then Export the model as a .3DS file. If you already have your model resized to fit the GTA San Andreas ped size, you'll have to make sure that 'Convert units' is unchecked otherwise your model will not be the size you previously resized it to be.

 

As I said, this solution worked for me. But I can't guarantee that it will work for everyone. But if you are having the same problem I was having with textures becoming distorted, it's definitely worth a shot. I hope this helps anyone who may have this issue!

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