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What to do with our money: The GTA Problem

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Drunken Cowboy
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#1

Posted 29 July 2014 - 04:14 AM

From someone who has played GTA III-GTA V, and every title in between without cheats; I've always experienced that quite first-world problem:

What the hell can I do with all my money?

Buy clothes in more recent titles that range in the 2-4 digits when I have several million dollars, buy guns I get given in missions and usually find ammo for for free, buy vehicles that I can only keep until I destroy them (which happens a lot...) or aircraft or watercraft I can already obtain for free easily. 
San Andreas, Vice City, Vice City Stories, and GTA V had property. San Andreas property was additional save points wth copy/paste interiors, you really didn't need too many. VCS probably had the best take with upgradable crime ventures, but the constant attacks on them made them more trouble than they were worth ("Don't mess with The Sharks!")

Vice City's ventures were necessary for story progress, difficult to consider them.
And GTA V: More legitimate ventures like restaurants and theaters which you can't enter, receive menial benefits from buying, have to do work for, and see the return of your investment after several-hundred in-game weeks.

 

So what have we been able to buy? Cheap clothing and weapons that can be found, certain vehicles that don't necessarily need to be bought or customized, and property that only serve to give the player more money to do nothing with.

 

How can this be avoided in GTA VI? Does it need to be? 

 

1) You could unnaturally raise the price of everything in the environment. A game I play, PAYDAY 2 is a game focused around bank robbery, so your money is obviously in the several hundred millions.
However, the cost of weapons, leveling up character skills, and jobs to take are also in the millions. A sniper rifle is $900,000. Bringing extra body-bags to a heist can be $10,000 for a Hefty bag... 

This sounds like a cop-out, but there's something interesting PAYDAY does. The prime focus is on skill and leveling up, not necessarily just buying all the guns or skills since that's an easy endeavor. You need several hundred million dollars to do their form of "prestige", adding bonuses to your character. Perhaps GTA could treat money more like a points system in that respect. You can only simulate a certain amount of crap you can buy and enjoy in a virtual universe. Why not give the money a purpose similar to Vice City and being a necessity to progress either within the story, or to a new activity: like the boat races, cab drives, pizza deliveries, strippers with nicer polygons, etc.
 

2) Stop the frivolity with the mission payouts. You gain money for pretty much every mission you complete in GTA. Like points. Though, those dollars aren't treated like points, as mentioned^. Why do I get several thousand dollars for saving Roman from kidnappers? Did someone have that in their wallet who I killed? Keep mission payouts where realistic, and keep the payouts realistic. Why is Franklin complaining about being down on his luck and never getting what's his? You have several million dollars, buckeroo! 

 

3) Does it matter? Are you bothered by your excess money you can't do anything with? Is the pursuit of money as important to you as it seems to be to the character? 

 

 

Just a few of my thoughts. It's often debated but not much is said on it. Thoughts? 

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#2

Posted 29 July 2014 - 05:20 AM

I think you're totally right about raising prices in-game and lowering the profit from the in-game missions. I also think that we should see something like a really good balance of these two in the next GTA,because in my opinion its funnier to feel like you need to control what you're spending your money on,instead of just spending around,knowing that you have millions stacked. 


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#3

Posted 29 July 2014 - 06:37 AM Edited by Dope_0110, 29 July 2014 - 09:42 AM.

That's generally a problem in any open world game, and I don't really think there is a solution. In the end you'll always have too much money and nothing to spend it on. The problem is in real life you're always afraid that you might somehow lose it, and that makes you get more, more, more...  but in a game, you know those numbers are there, and they aren't going anywhere, and you can't really enjoy it. You can't go on a vacation, brag to your friends or buy nice clothes, because you've already bought it all.

Raising the prices too high would seem silly (900,000 for a sniper rifle??), I'd rather have them get less money, that is some realistic amount as you said, or no money at all where it doesn't make sense in a mission, and thus having to work more on the side to get the money needed to buy things you want. Though that would go bad with some who enjoy seeing large numbers for some reason (compensating maybe) and who already complain about heists not giving them money they want.

Properties are one example of other underpriced items, that should definitely have it's prices increased. And my idea would be to see what's the total amount of cash needed to buy all the things in the game (all weapons, clothes, houses etc..) and then make the mission payout such that all of it together would cover maybe 50% of that or something, maybe even less. That way you'd be forced to work outside of missions if you want to get it all, and if you do the story first, there is plenty of incentive to chase money afterwards (unless there are easy ways to earn it, which makes it all obsolete, but that's really on the player if he wants to use it or not).

But still the problem remains that the characters will often talk about being down on their luck, because that's what the story requires, even though you have millions. That's the thing about open world games where you don't have to follow missions, and can go do whatever you like outside of the main story, and it won't react to your behavior.

Long story short: don't think this problem can ever be really fixed, but with realistic payouts and a bit higher prices, it would make for an enjoyable chase for the money, at least a bit longer than usual but the game has to have and end somewhere, and eventually it will when we have it all.

 

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#4

Posted 29 July 2014 - 07:13 AM

I agree with many of the points you've described containing a common problem.
The economy system we've now seems lacking a lot with limited choices to spend, in respect to the available options for big payouts you easily earn by completing the game.
Something that GTA:O does better than SP. It seems repititive at early stage for now, but the way the system has been designed when it comes to and STRICTLY related to "earning and spending money", what actually makes the system decent and functional are the more possible choices available (even in future ) for the players to effectively focus in the direction of the pursuit of money. It will certainly shine more gradually once it establishes itself strongly.
But, the problem with the GTA:O system is the endless grinding to overcome microtransactions making the chase after money more annoying and frustrating since what you got to spend it on are ridiculously expensive with limited payouts in amount.
And, that leads me to the SP which can also turn out as solid as GTA:O since there are no micro-bullsh*t and better payouts are not much of a problem.
All SP needs are more strong alternative variants over the weapons, clothing or car modifications, and laid out for spending the money and fulfill the need of good returns as well.
Like: Buying Properties!
It pretty much guarantees good returns and a much better choice than imvesting on stocks that's crap for my taste.
Also, buying properties are connected with giving you missions or activities too. So, you can 'play it' to earn it.
It increases the profit for your investment ONLY by working hard to earn it.
I'd like more similar type of 'long term investments' for spending the money that also fuel more playing hours to the game, allowing the player to decide how he controls, both the income and the business in his hands.
I don't want more easily accessible choices like playing stocks, that's quite cheap, easy, and more lazy ways to try spending your money in return for only profit, but zero gains in terms of exciting gameplay via challenging tasks or jobs.
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#5

Posted 29 July 2014 - 09:18 AM

Spend it on strip clubs

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#6

Posted 29 July 2014 - 11:25 AM

Spend it on strip clubs


and hookers :lol: ;)
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#7

Posted 30 July 2014 - 11:52 AM

If I had to pick one of the very few noteworthy features of Fallout 3, it would be the economy system.

The economy system was very well done. I always felt that I was running short of caps (money in the fallout world, anyone who has played the fallout games will understand). I understand GTA isn't a role-playing game but I feel it should take atleast some elements from other games.

I think the mission rewards are the main problem. They should be reduced, considerably. The maximum you can get during a mission is, say $50,000.

In Fallout, things were expensive. In GTA they should be made a tad bit more expensive as well. Gambling is another excellent feature that I'd like to add. Basically in a nutshell:

Reduce the money in mission rewards, make things more expensive AND more things to spend on.

If I am honest (and I hate admitting it), Fallout 3's economy system is pretty much the pinnacle in gaming as far as money goes in my opinion. It's just a shame that most of the rest of the game is hugely flawed and overrated pile of crap.
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#8

Posted 30 July 2014 - 11:57 AM

-One of my suggestions is combine the traditional property system with the VCS property system. (E.g. You buy a strip club, and it stays a strip club. However you can upgrade certain areas like security, bar, hiring better girls, etc). Say the maximum upgrades to the business equal 25% of the original price, you get 25% more income a week.

-Have buyable cars, but have the buyable ones cars that you can't find on the street.

- Get rid of weapon pickups (like RPGs in hotel swimming pools) around the map and limit the amount of ammo that you pick up off dead enemies.

- Upgrade to your safehouse. Want to play pool in your own home? Buy a pool table. Want to get rid of that old anologue TV? Buy a HD.

- Have moments in the story where you actually have to spend money to get from A to B. For example say somebody you know gets kidnapped. Or even give them some type of choice in the matter (e.g. Your friend gets kidnapped, you can either pay the $250,000 ransom and get them back in one peice. Or you can try to go in all guns blazing, which results in them dying anyway).

- Bring back the Chinatown Wars drug dealing. And possibly give the player the option to use the drugs (this would almost definitley draw in a lot of controvery however).
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#9

Posted 30 July 2014 - 03:17 PM

In all seriousness, I think GTA V and GTA IV was the worst GTA's in how you would spend money. By the end of IV, you got like 200,000 dollars and have nothing to spend it on except form clothes and weapons wich you should obviously already have.... In GTA V, this gets worst. By the end, you either have a 23 or even 30 million dollars, or if you did the stock trick with the assasination missions, you get A BILLION DOLLARS. I did the stock trick, and I have nothing to spend all the billion dollars with as frank trev and mike.... I have bought alot of clothes already, bought most cars (even the z type as michael) I bought all the weapons, and there is nothing to spend it all on now. I even bought every single property in game, the money I get from them doesn't even matter anymore. You can't buy new houses in V either, oh wait I mean you can't buy houses in SP but can in gta f*cking online.. So there you have it. I don't know what to do with my billion dollars now. Money doesn't even matter to me anymore in this game. I could go 3 hours as franklin in the strip club just raining money on strippers. 


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#10

Posted 30 July 2014 - 03:43 PM Edited by Joe Chip, 30 July 2014 - 03:54 PM.

2) Stop the frivolity with the mission payouts. You gain money for pretty much every mission you complete in GTA. Like points. Though, those dollars aren't treated like points, as mentioned^. Why do I get several thousand dollars for saving Roman from kidnappers? Did someone have that in their wallet who I killed? Keep mission payouts where realistic, and keep the payouts realistic. Why is Franklin complaining about being down on his luck and never getting what's his? You have several million dollars, buckeroo! 

This one! Option 2! Through the course of the story, which you probably complete in a real life day or two, you usually make millions of dollars. Outside of missions the most you're ever going to come across (outside of gambling) is maybe $3000 in a cash van. Once the money's gone it's a huge pain in the ass to grind up for.

 

To fix that they should stop rewarding insane amounts of money for things you were going to do anyway. The best mission payouts were the ones at the beginning of San Andreas, where Sweet might've handed you $100 once in a while to "go buy a beer or something." Higher up gang boss types should pay a few thousand to a thug-for-hire at most. People who like to have billions of dollars should still have the option to gamble, or maybe complete a series of side quests to make that money.

 

GTA: Online has come closest to consistently paying reasonable amounts for missions, like Osho touched on above. Problem with GTA: Online is that you have to buy things to have fun. Want that monster truck? You better have six-hundred-thousand saved up! Want to wear a goofy animal mask? PAY US THE BLOOD OF YOUR INFANT. Reasonable mission payouts along with reasonably priced things, and opportunities to steal or find expensive cars or weapons would be the best solution imo.

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#11

Posted 31 July 2014 - 01:22 PM

Atleast Sa had Casinos, where I could gamble away my useless millions. We need casinos.

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#12

Posted 31 July 2014 - 01:26 PM

I say if they add in casinos, or any type of gambling, again they should make sure the odds go further and further out of your favour with the more you bet.

In San Andreas it took me maybe 10 attempts at the betting track and I had $1,000,000 before CJ even left Los Santos. It was just way too much.
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#13

Posted 31 July 2014 - 01:35 PM

Scarface is the best open world game when it comes to this IMO. I remember decorating Tony's mansion, investing into businesses, laundering money etc and never felt like I had too much money left over.
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Posted 31 July 2014 - 03:50 PM

Scarface is the best open world game when it comes to this IMO. I remember decorating Tony's mansion, investing into businesses, laundering money etc and never felt like I had too much money left over.

Eclectic mansion FTW

 

I love that game, sad that I can't find it these days :(


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#15

Posted 02 August 2014 - 06:10 AM

A few other suggestions:

- With the weapons if you get busted they're gone for good, plus the modifications. If you want them back you've got to pay a bribe equivilent to about 75% of what you lost; including cost price, the ammunition, modifications, etc

- Now this one's a reason to keep the police as smart and strong as they were in V. Say about 25% of the way through the plot you meet some type of corrupt police officer or FIB agent. If you get a wanted level you can bribe them to get rid of it, or face the hard as f*ck police on your own. $500 for one star. $1000 for two stars. $2000 for three stars. $5000 for four stars. $10,000 for five stars. And $15,000 for six stars.

- Keep the stock market from V, but don't have it change dramatically because of the game's plot. Have it randomised and allow the player to control it through their own actions outside of missions. Want to make a profit with burger shot? Destroy a bunch of Cluckin'Bell trucks or rob their stores.

- Make players pay to access certain areas safely. Want a fake military uniform and identification or maybe a uniform and fake badge? Buy them on the black market for a hefty price.

- Have loan sharks. If you're falling short on money go loan some and get given, say, two in-game weeks to pay them back + interest. If you don't pay them back well I guess you're dealing with infinite hitmen chasing after you for the rest of the game. The more you borrow the more frequent these hitmen will chase you (e.g. If you borrowed $5000 they'll try to kill you maybe once a week. If you borrow $2,000,000 have it twice daily). But the more you can borrow depends on how far through you are, you don't want people borrowing $10,000,000 after just five missions.
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#16

Posted 08 August 2014 - 08:30 PM

Just bumping this thread because it was worth it. It is a good thread

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#17

Posted 08 August 2014 - 09:30 PM Edited by browar25, 08 August 2014 - 09:45 PM.

Scarface is the best open world game when it comes to this IMO. I remember decorating Tony's mansion, investing into businesses, laundering money etc and never felt like I had too much money left over.

You're damn right man, you could even buy a tiger. The stuffed one, but still the tiger :D

 

Edit: To add something to the topic. Maybe it would be nice to have some fixed costs and then we'd have to create some cash flows to cover them.
It was a serious problem in GTA III, I completed the game and ended up with almost 8 000 000 and nothing to spend it on. So I made a massive rampage.

 

Edit 2: I forgot about hookers, but still we could easily get our money back (GTA III) ;)

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#18

Posted 08 August 2014 - 10:35 PM

Alright: here is my thoughts on this.

 

 

Personally, I think they should make a system on what to spend, and how to get. Although, it would be ''hard'' for them to make such system, still. Its just a wish thing 

 

 

 

They should have alot of things to spend on. And its a must thing. Such as eating and stuff. Although, nobody (even me) doesn't want that stupid feature from SA to comeback were you MUST eat, or CJ's health will go down. I want a system were you have the choice to eat, and the protagonist gets hungry. Although, if you chose not to eat, he may not perform 100% in the missions. He may get just tiny slower, and some things will change when he is shooting or driving. Only tiny stuff, not too much, so the player is not forced to buy food and eat. Also, about weapons. There should be many different weapons at many different price ranges -  lets say in the beginning, you get 400 dollars from the third or fourth mission, and the boss tells you to go buy a gun, and you have too. Also, spend money on clothing needs to be another big thing introduced again. From the beginning, you have to buy cheaper clothes (Also to add up to that, we need ALOT of damn clothes, over a hundred option IMO) like the clothes cost 20 to 40 dollars, and as the story goes, you have the abillity to buy much more expensive clothes that cost around 5000 to 8000 dollars. And you have to buy and wear different clothes for different bosses, kind of like in GTA IV. Also, you need ammo for guns. So you need to buy that to, and it should be a much main role in the shooting feature. Also, if you are short on cash, you have to to drug dealing to get some more cash. Also, spend it on tattoos. 

 

 

The last thing is, we don't need huge rewards like 3 billion dollars. We also need to have alot of garage options, like at the beginning, a one car garage, and as the story goes, you can unlock more cooler apartments and houses with more garage space. And you can buy cars that cost alot of cash. 


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#19

Posted 08 August 2014 - 10:38 PM

Alright: here is my thoughts on this.
 
 
Personally, I think they should make a system on what to spend, and how to get. Although, it would be ''hard'' for them to make such system, still. Its just a wish thing 
 
 
 
They should have alot of things to spend on. And its a must thing. Such as eating and stuff. Although, nobody (even me) doesn't want that stupid feature from SA to comeback were you MUST eat, or CJ's health will go down. I want a system were you have the choice to eat, and the protagonist gets hungry. Although, if you chose not to eat, he may not perform 100% in the missions. He may get just tiny slower, and some things will change when he is shooting or driving. Only tiny stuff, not too much, so the player is not forced to buy food and eat. Also, about weapons. There should be many different weapons at many different price ranges -  lets say in the beginning, you get 400 dollars from the third or fourth mission, and the boss tells you to go buy a gun, and you have too. Also, spend money on clothing needs to be another big thing introduced again. From the beginning, you have to buy cheaper clothes (Also to add up to that, we need ALOT of damn clothes, over a hundred option IMO) like the clothes cost 20 to 40 dollars, and as the story goes, you have the abillity to buy much more expensive clothes that cost around 5000 to 8000 dollars. And you have to buy and wear different clothes for different bosses, kind of like in GTA IV. Also, you need ammo for guns. So you need to buy that to, and it should be a much main role in the shooting feature. Also, if you are short on cash, you have to to drug dealing to get some more cash. Also, spend it on tattoos. 
 
 
The last thing is, we don't need huge rewards like 3 billion dollars. We also need to have alot of garage options, like at the beginning, a one car garage, and as the story goes, you can unlock more cooler apartments and houses with more garage space. And you can buy cars that cost alot of cash. 

That's a damn good idea.

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#20

Posted 08 August 2014 - 11:06 PM

How about private bodyguards that secure your estates? We could hire plenty of them depending on how rich we are and how many assets we have. It could be a fixed cost. And there should be a lot of small things for fat cats like some pieces of art, furniture. We should be able to arrange interiors.

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#21

Posted 08 August 2014 - 11:41 PM

We've kinda been discussing as if we get another rags-to-riches GTA (which I might be able to do without.)
How would these reduced payouts work if we get another Trevor with an inexplicable $200,000 or whatever.

My favorite system was Johnny's and Luis'. They were established as regular jackoffs that had a couple hundred bucks. They're not like Tommy, Franklin, or Niko chasing the almighty dollar, nor did Johnny really end up with a lot of money. They seemed to be content with their living state, so the fact they weren't making major bucks wasn't necessary for the story.
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#22

Posted 09 August 2014 - 08:31 AM

To be honest this rags-to-riches system is something that I like the most in GTA. I miss the way in which assets were run in GTA VC. I don't think that a lot of money is a problem in GTA. The problem is that we haven't got enough things to spend them on. Although I agree that we earn too much for a job, single sources generate too much money. Instead of that they should provide us with variety of ways to make money.

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#23

Posted 10 August 2014 - 11:32 AM

Scarface is the best open world game when it comes to this IMO. I remember decorating Tony's mansion, investing into businesses, laundering money etc and never felt like I had too much money left over.

Yes!! It's SUCH an underrated game! Taking over fronts and also the drug distribution system... They got it spot on.


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#24

Posted 26 August 2014 - 11:12 AM

Bump because this topic needs it.

 

I know I already posted in this topic about why I feel Fallout 3 has the greatest economy system in a video game (IMO) but I've got back to it again and I feel my reasons are justified.

 

I got back to the game recently. While I am liking it a LOT more this time around, I am also in love with the economy system. I understand fallout isn't GTA (and vice versa) but if we're going to improve the economy system. These are the points that should be taken into account:

 

In Fallout, after I buy and sell stuff, I feel like I've done business. It felt great and so satisfying. In GTA, let's say I go to buy some new clothes, I buy it and I feel like "Meh, nice suit". But in Fallout I feel like I have EARNED the money to buy the suit/material.

 

This is the main problem with money in GTA. It does not allow the player to EARN money before spending it. Money is earned not given. However GTA follows the exact opposite and it does it rather badly.

 

I want to feel a sense of progression. In Fallout when I got 100 caps I felt that was a HUGE money. In GTA, I don't have that feeling at all because the next second your money is some where at $100,000 and I feel like "Not this again...". I want to earn my money. I want it to feel like an achievement.

 

Another fallout related thing I'd like to add in GTA is the barter system. I'd love it if he could just scavenge stuff lying on the road and sell them for a small price. I know GTA isn't set in a wasteland but I'd like this to be here none-the-less. In fallout my routine is like, leave my house, go out, do a quest or two, explore a bit, come back and do some trade, comeback to my house, store the loot and sleep.

 

That's just SO satisfying and FUN.

 

I feel mission rewards should be reduced, considerably. I feel things should be over-priced, like in Fallout. I know some folks may not like it but GTA badly needs a great economy system. I can't just explain how a good economy system can make a gaming experience so satisfying.

 

And another thing is I'd also like it if we could request mission rewards to be increased slightly. In Fallout, if your speech stat is high enough you could request for a larger reward.  Oh and the reward for missions should not be only money. It could also be stuff like weapons and armor. (Like in fallout).

 

I've never played Scarface but for the games I've player Fallout 3 has the best economy system IMO. I'd like to know if anyone here has played it, if you haven't played the game, I'd totally recommend it either way.

 

 

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#25

Posted 26 August 2014 - 10:13 PM

^
I'm gonna have to go against you on that.
Fallout's economy isn't built around whay we have in the "civilized" world. Lots of it is based on barter and trade as opposed to currency. Most all the desirable items and weapons are found in Fallout, as they are in GTA. All weapons you can find in combat in GTA, and most good vehicles you can steal. In Fallout, all the good weapons are unique, and found scavenging around. I never bought weapons or ammunition in that game. I never bought clothes because those are found, unlike in GTA. All that leaves really is chems and junk. I bought chems, something GTA really has no answer to, but even chems are easily found.

The only thing I really pride Fallout on is that if you want big money, you gotta take your own outside initiative. Jobs pay garbage, and their purpose is usually to show loyalty to a person or faction. If you want money, you gotta keep hunting, finding, and selling the best commodities. By level 20 I'd sold enough found guns to have more caps than I ever could need. Nevertheless, that was my reward for playing like that. I'd cram my inventory to capacity with more crap than I could ever sell to one vendor.

Fallout is a good model on avenues to earning money, not so much giving you options on what to spend it on.
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Blingy
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#26

Posted 27 August 2014 - 12:05 AM

This is a fantastic idea! I remember playing GTA III when I was a little kid and having all of this money.... with nothing to spend it on. Buying a $10K Rocket Launcher isn't as bad as when you have half a million dollars.


don ovdi' island
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#27

Posted 27 August 2014 - 01:15 AM


-Have buyable cars, but have the buyable ones cars that you can't find on the street.
 

No; that's the problem with Grand THEFT Auto already.  Theres always a chance to see ANY car on the street, i think certain cars should be easier or harder to steal.  IE: Older cars are easier to hotwire and newer cars require some kind of skills

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Blingy
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#28

Posted 27 August 2014 - 03:28 PM

 

-Have buyable cars, but have the buyable ones cars that you can't find on the street.
 

No; that's the problem with Grand THEFT Auto already.  Theres always a chance to see ANY car on the street, i think certain cars should be easier or harder to steal.  IE: Older cars are easier to hotwire and newer cars require some kind of skills

 

Newer cars you need a lockpick kit, and a computer that you'll have to buy in order to steal the codes to unlock it and turn it on. I know you can't just rip the steering column to a new Audi and steal it that way. There's so many computers in that now, that if you even sit in it wrong it's going to think it's stolen.


wiizardii
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#29

Posted 27 August 2014 - 03:38 PM

How about private bodyguards that secure your estates? We could hire plenty of them depending on how rich we are and how many assets we have. It could be a fixed cost. And there should be a lot of small things for fat cats like some pieces of art, furniture. We should be able to arrange interiors.

Good idea, but personally: it would kinda break out of GTA tradition. I would rather kill everyone myself than hire bodyguards or other people to do my work :D


Payne
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#30

Posted 27 August 2014 - 04:42 PM

weapons should be expensive.

Lots of weapons





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