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Military Crisis in Ukraine

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acmilano
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#1

Posted 18 February 2014 - 09:22 PM Edited by acmilano, 18 February 2014 - 09:23 PM.

 

 

Ukrainian police are storming the main anti-government protest camp in the capital, Kiev, after months of occupation.

Explosions are taking place, fireworks are being thrown and large fires have broken out in Independence Square, known locally as the Maidan.

Police have deployed water cannon.

During the day, at least nine people were killed, including two policemen, as protesters and security forces clashed in the worst violence in weeks.

Security forces had given protesters a deadline of 18:00 local time (16:00 GMT) to end the unrest and had surrounded Independence Square, which has been the scene of a mostly peaceful protest camp since November.

The city's metro service was suspended, and there were reports that cars were being prevented from coming in to the capital.

Protest leaders had insisted they would not retreat, though but warned that they could not "exclude the possibility" of the authorities using force.

Shortly before 18:00 GMT, police announced over loudspeakers that they were about to begin "an anti-terror operation".

Then they began advancing with an armoured vehicle. Police dismantled barricades and fired stun grenades and water cannon.

Protesters lit fires and threw fireworks. Large fires are burning in the square and have destroyed many tents.

Despite the clashes, large numbers of people are still in the square. Protest leaders are on the main stage, encouraging people to stay.

"We will not go anywhere from here," said opposition leader Vitaly Klitschko.

"This is an island of freedom and we will defend it."

Mr Yatsenyuk, who leads the Fatherland party, appealed to President Viktor Yanukovych to "call off your chain dogs who are shooting at civilians".

"There are people here, children, youth and women. We did not start this confrontation. We are urging you to pull the law enforcement bodies back 200 metres. Stop the bloodshed and call a truce until morning," he said, in a speech from the stage which was broadcast on Ukraine's News 24 channel.

"We are talking about human lives and the future of the country which could be drowned in blood. Stop, Viktor Yanukovych, stop."

An aide to Mr Yanukovych was quoted by Ukrainian media earlier as saying the president was "against confrontation and conflict" and did not want to forcibly disperse the camp.

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http://www.bbc.co.uk...europe-26249330

 

Watching this on TV,and it getting only worse there.

There were protests in my country Bosnia recently, but nothing on this scale of violence. Hope they won't end up in civil war,it would only bring more suffering to them,and even worse situation in world.

Especially becouse of US,EU and Rusia involvment in that part of the world.


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#2

Posted 18 February 2014 - 09:41 PM

And people here try to say the US is f*cked up

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#3

Posted 18 February 2014 - 10:24 PM

the US is f*cked up :lol:

 

but most people are still too comfortable to riot.

if our economic inequality continues on its current trend, we could certainly see very similar demonstrations at some point in our neck of the woods.

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#4

Posted 18 February 2014 - 10:26 PM

And people here try to say the US is f*cked up

 

Well the US is f*cked up in places, just like how every country have certain areas that are worse than others.


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#5

Posted 18 February 2014 - 10:46 PM Edited by Manfred Von Karma, 18 February 2014 - 10:52 PM.

That place looks like Stalingrad during WWII , why wouldn't they settle it down with a boxing match Klitschko vs Yanukovych , the winner gets the presidency

   
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#6

Posted 18 February 2014 - 11:24 PM

the US is f*cked up :lol:
 
but most people are still too comfortable to riot.
if our economic inequality continues on its current trend, we could certainly see very similar demonstrations at some point in our neck of the woods.


But the US is as a result of a protest. We invented protesting.


My family is from Ukraine. I'm the first generation born in the US.
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The Yokel
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#7

Posted 18 February 2014 - 11:27 PM

Humans are f*ckin' idiots. Doomed to repeat history over and over and over again because of a few greedy, power hungry, short-sighted assholes and the rest of us who allow them to gain power. But still, I'll take the side of the gullible majority over the greedy, power hungry minority any day. f*ck the stupid f*ckin' police and burn the politicians in the middle of town square.

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#8

Posted 18 February 2014 - 11:58 PM

Stay a night on the streets of Chicago and tell me the US isn't f*cked up. And that's just 1 city.

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#9

Posted 19 February 2014 - 12:31 AM

I can already tell that there is going to be a civil war


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#10

Posted 19 February 2014 - 07:23 AM

And people here try to say the US is f*cked up

Shut up.

 

I can already tell that there is going to be a civil war

Can you? Do tell me more about your knowledge on the inner workings of Ukraine.


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#11

Posted 19 February 2014 - 07:44 AM

As part of the Olympic closing ceremonies, Russia will invade the Ukraine. I bet they already have tanks lined up across the border ready to roll through.  

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#12

Posted 19 February 2014 - 07:51 AM

Pigs everywhere :panic:


acmilano
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#13

Posted 19 February 2014 - 09:50 PM

 

Damn this become a real war. President changed Army Commander. That doesn't sound good.


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#14

Posted 19 February 2014 - 10:02 PM

i like civil wars, atleast these people have the balls to stand up agains there goverment.

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#15

Posted 19 February 2014 - 11:10 PM Edited by gtamann123, 19 February 2014 - 11:12 PM.

Stay a night on the streets of Chicago and tell me the US isn't f*cked up. And that's just 1 city.


Sure there are some f*cked up neighborhoods and areas here and there. but at least we dont have people rioting and burning sh*t on the national mall. Even the stupid occupy protests never got anywhere near this sh*t. Hell the worst riot you will see around here these days is when a local sports team wins a championship.

acmilano
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#16

Posted 20 February 2014 - 08:48 AM Edited by acmilano, 20 February 2014 - 08:48 AM.

http://www.youtube.c...coEm4#t=1539066

 

You can see live footage from Kiev on this channel.

 

CNN just reported that at least ten people were killed this morning after protestors attacked police.


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#17

Posted 20 February 2014 - 08:49 AM

I wonder when the Ukraine will stop with this, Hasn't this been going on for like 3-4 years now?


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#18

Posted 20 February 2014 - 10:23 AM Edited by Doc Rikowski, 20 February 2014 - 10:57 AM.

It's funny that if this was happening in any western country, I mean the people fighting the police and the government with molotovs in violent confrontations, every single media and western government would condemn the people and call them terrorists and troublemakers beside actually repressing the riots with very strong police brutality (like it happened in Genoa 2000 G8 meeting), but in this case all the hypocrites politicians are condemning the Ukrainian government for doing exactly what they would do in the exact same situation. Same old western strategy... Start and support a riot in a country to make it fall under your influence.

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#19

Posted 20 February 2014 - 10:38 AM

Couldn't said it it better myself, Doc.

It piss me off how the EU, USA and Russia are sticking their nose into the Ukranian conflict. This will probably escalate to a civil war with the countries before said behind...

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#20

Posted 20 February 2014 - 11:06 AM

Apparently it's already escalating with the russian paid thugs starting random fights with both sides only to fuel the fire. It's not confirmed (who would confirm it anyway), but apparently there are even russian snipers taking some important people out at both sides of the conflict. 


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#21

Posted 20 February 2014 - 11:55 AM

To be honest, there's a great deal of conflict between the East and West of Ukraine. The Eastern side is largely pro-Russian, the West pro-European. The simple fact of the matter is that popular opinion in much of the economically developed, socially liberal West is strongly against the government. It wasn't long ago that active discussions were taking place about Ukraine jointing the EU.

You've also got to take into account that Ukraine has a sizeable Russian minority who have instigated much of the violence with the explicit support of the Russian government. The same has happened across the region in recent history (look at events in Estonia in 2007)
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#22

Posted 20 February 2014 - 12:05 PM Edited by Tycek, 20 February 2014 - 12:06 PM.

That's why people are speculating about secession of parts of Ukraine. Five or six western districts of the country are very keen to join the UE, while eastern part (Donbas, Doneck, etc.) are pushing to the east. 

 

This is almost the same situation as happened in the Chehoslovakia back in '68, but we'll see if the russians decide to sent army there. 

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#23

Posted 20 February 2014 - 12:08 PM Edited by flame1251, 20 February 2014 - 12:22 PM.

For me interesting your attitude to this. Probably from your countries is seen as "yet another armed conflict somewhere far away". So people perceive such events when they are far away from them. In fact, Ukraine - not some seedy and dysfunctional country where during the war all time. What is happening now - highly atypical.

 

I wonder when the Ukraine will stop with this, Hasn't this been going on for like 3-4 years now?

This is not going 3-4 years. People came to Maidan (Independence Square) initially in order to protest against the abolition The association with the EU. (Yanukovych abruptly changed course and not explained for people the conditions of association with the European Union, is likely unprofitable and can lead the country to disaster).

There is a version that people went to the Maidan (in November 2013) themselves, and then they was connected opposition (likely they have support from the European Union and the United States) and started to use for their own purposes (to get power). There is a version that people were brought opposition. Opposition - are residents of Western Ukraine, Western Ukraine actively supports them. Therefore, some suggest that initially Maidan activists were brought from the West.

Ultimately - began a protest. In the first days of provocation and clashes began. And know exactly who started the first collision - this is unclear.

Now all led to a semblance of civil war (maybe that is interested for EU). The opposition does not control people. Armed groups are operate (such as the Right Sector - this group includes many young people supporting fascism), they trained for years (and nobody did not know about them), and they are all the time have waited for a chance to go on "stage".

Situation in the country is very bad. Can only say that in the power of sitting fools who could not cope with the country and thinking only of their income, but the opposition - is the same. Sorry for the ordinary people.

We can not say who is right, because both sides have made a lot of terrible mistakes.
 

P.S. I apologize for the possible manifestations of illiteracy.

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#24

Posted 20 February 2014 - 12:22 PM

"Do not intervene in internal affairs"

 

One country hollers this mantra every day....can they ever practise what they preach?


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#25

Posted 20 February 2014 - 12:33 PM

For me interesting your attitude to this. Probably from your countries is seen as "yet another armed conflict somewhere far away". So people perceive such events when they are far away from them. In fact, Ukraine - not some seedy and dysfunctional country where during the war all time. What is happening now - highly atypical.

 

I wonder when the Ukraine will stop with this, Hasn't this been going on for like 3-4 years now?

This is not going 3-4 years. People came to Maidan (Independence Square) initially in order to protest against the abolition The association with the EU. (Yanukovych abruptly changed course and not explained for people the conditions of association with the European Union, is likely unprofitable and can lead the country to disaster).

There is a version that people went to the Maidan (in November 2013) themselves, and then they was connected opposition (likely they have support from the European Union and the United States) and started to use for their own purposes (to get power). There is a version that people were brought opposition. Opposition - are residents of Western Ukraine, Western Ukraine actively supports them. Therefore, some suggest that initially Maidan activists were brought from the West.

Ultimately - began a protest. In the first days of provocation and clashes began. And know exactly who started the first collision - this is unclear.

Now all led to a semblance of civil war (maybe that is interested for EU). The opposition does not control people. Armed groups are operate (such as the Right Sector - this group includes many young people supporting fascism), they trained for years (and nobody did not know about them), and they are all the time have waited for a chance to go on "stage".

Situation in the country is very bad. Can only say that in the power of sitting fools who could not cope with the country and thinking only of their income, but the opposition - is the same. Sorry for the ordinary people.

We can not say who is right, because both sides have made a lot of terrible mistakes.
 

P.S. I apologize for the possible manifestations of illiteracy.

Thanks for the Clearing up, though I swear I heard about Ukrainian riots a few years or so ago. Must've been something else, somewhere else.


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#26

Posted 20 February 2014 - 12:38 PM

That was probably the orange revolution in 2004-5. That led to a pro-European administration, which then see-sawed back to a pro-Russian one in 2010.

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#27

Posted 20 February 2014 - 12:48 PM

Well, people do stupid stuff. If we looked at the countries all around the world, from the objective point of view, a fair percentage of countries should be shut down. Just.. shut down. Erased from records of being a country. Some of them because of stupid and incapable people running the country and some because of the stupid and ignorant people living in them.


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#28

Posted 20 February 2014 - 03:59 PM

A lot of the information in this thread is outdated. Things are changing really fast. There are snipers operating on both sides now, which ramps up the body count fast. The main difference is that Gov't snipers are firing on unarmed persons and even the reporters using armor-piercing ammo. Snipers on the opposition side try to pick out the gov't snipers with variable success. Fortunately, gov't has not seem to be hurrying to move in any more armor since that APC got torched.
 
 
 
 

Situation in the country is very bad. Can only say that in the power of sitting fools who could not cope with the country and thinking only of their income, but the opposition - is the same. Sorry for the ordinary people.
 
We can not say who is right, because both sides have made a lot of terrible mistakes.


The gov't needs to go. That isn't a question. I can't say I agree with everything Right Sector stands for, but they are the ones on the front lines right now, actually fighting against the regime. The "opposition leaders" are, of course, in it just for the politics. They've said a lot of words about being with the people, and standing with them under govt's bullets, but then they end up somewhere else doing political maneuvering when things actually got bad.
 
I know there is a lot of mis-information going around, but if you can read across all of the relevant languages, it's fairly straight forward to get it all sorted. No matter what you think of the EU, Russia, and the groups that make up the opposition, actions of the official Ukrainian gov't are criminal. Such a gov't cannot be allowed to remain in power. They've demonstrated their inability to act in a manner fitting a government of a civilized country and that they are not willing to leave by any means other than force.
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#29

Posted 20 February 2014 - 04:50 PM

Holy crap. This is probably the saddest thing that I have ever read: http://www.theguardi...ot-kiev-ukraine

 

Luckily she's alive and seems to be doing OK. But at the same time I'm also thinking "who the f*ck tweets something like that?"


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#30

Posted 20 February 2014 - 06:14 PM

http://www.bbc.co.uk...europe-26280710

 

EU imposed sanctions on Ukrainian officials. Probably mistake,that's just gonna push them more towards Russia.





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