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Do you think ghosts are real?

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¥en
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#211

Posted 24 December 2014 - 12:26 PM

My experience does constitute as proof that I am right, for me.

 

So I have every right to claim that I am right, because I am.

 

It's not my intention to prove the existence of my experiences. I just share my understanding of what I know for fact as fact.

 

I have the right to have my opinion and the right to argue against people who claim it is false, without providing proof.

 

I don't care if people don't realize they're wrong, as long as I know I am right. 

 

Here's your post summarized in picture format:

 

lalala-i-cant-hear-you.jpg

 

And you wonder why people are coming to the conclusion that you're delusional?

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GrindingOnDatNRG
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#212

Posted 24 December 2014 - 12:30 PM Edited by GrindingOnDatNRG, 24 December 2014 - 12:31 PM.

No that's a picture of people blocking their ears going lalalala. My post is my post. 

 

And no I don't wonder at all why people think that. I understand why and I understand how they are wrong for thinking that.


sivispacem
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#213

Posted 24 December 2014 - 12:44 PM

My experience does constitute as proof that I am right, for me.

Your experiences corroborate your belief you are right. They don't actually make you right. Being "right" can't be caveated, it's a factual thing.
 

So I have every right to claim that I am right, because I am.

See above. Thinking you are right != being right. You can claim you think you're right, which is what you're actually saying albeit badly, but in order to be objectively right you'd have to demonstrate you were. Which you can't. So a belief it remains.
 

It's not my intention to prove the existence of my experiences. I just share my understanding of what I know for fact as fact.

But you don't even appear to know what the word "fact" actually means? Why should anyone believe what you are saying is fact? In fact, why do you think what you are saying is fact?
 

I have the right to have my opinion

So is it opinion or fact? If you're claiming it's your opinion then that's fine, but don't go pretending it's fact. If you're claiming it's fact, then these claims should and will be subject to scrutiny and if you can't defend them they deserve to be ridiculed for portraying opinions as facts. You can't have it both ways.

I don't care if people don't realize they're wrong, as long as I know I am right.

"I'm right because I say in right and you're all wrong because I say so". Also, you clearly care enough to argue the toss about it.
 

I just don't care about the semantics of it all because I know I am right anyway.

It isn't semantics. You genuinely don't seem to understand what other people are saying. In fact, you don't even appear to understand what you are saying.
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Hocko1999_fgc
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#214

Posted 24 December 2014 - 12:46 PM

I've been to a few haunted houses (eg Monty Christo Homestead, Old Melbourne gaol), and while yes you do feel a presence or swear you saw something move on it's own, I think it's just a mix of mind-over-matter and seeing what you want to. Although I'm not doubting their existence, that's my view on it.

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GrindingOnDatNRG
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#215

Posted 24 December 2014 - 12:51 PM Edited by GrindingOnDatNRG, 24 December 2014 - 12:52 PM.

Fine scrutinize that I call it a fact see if I care. Just because it isn't proven doesn't mean it's automatically false. So go right ahead.

 

I don't need your approval.


Hocko1999_fgc
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#216

Posted 24 December 2014 - 12:54 PM

Fine scrutinize that I call it a fact see if I care. Just because it isn't proven doesn't mean it's automatically false. So go right ahead.
 
I don't need your approval.


Let's just agree to disagree so you can stop whining about us expressing our views.

sivispacem
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#217

Posted 24 December 2014 - 01:01 PM

Just because it isn't proven doesn't mean it's automatically false.

I never said it did

Jesus Christ, where the f*ck does this sh*t come from?

GrindingOnDatNRG
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#218

Posted 24 December 2014 - 01:03 PM

 

Just because it isn't proven doesn't mean it's automatically false.

I never said it did

Jesus Christ, where the f*ck does this sh*t come from?

 

I didn't say you did.


sivispacem
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#219

Posted 24 December 2014 - 01:54 PM


 

Just because it isn't proven doesn't mean it's automatically false.

I never said it did

Jesus Christ, where the f*ck does this sh*t come from?
 
I didn't say you did.
Then explain to me what relevance it has to the discussion?
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GrindingOnDatNRG
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#220

Posted 24 December 2014 - 02:19 PM Edited by GrindingOnDatNRG, 24 December 2014 - 02:21 PM.

Because people where using the fact there is no proof to try indicate that paranormal doesn't exist. I admit though, I have been arguing with you as if you have said everything that everyone else I've been arguing with has been saying when you haven't. So sorry about that.

sivispacem
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#221

Posted 24 December 2014 - 02:26 PM

Because people where using the fact there is no proof to try indicate that paranormal doesn't exist.

I'll concede that many people confuse "these is no evidence of X existing" with "X does not exist". But the former is still enough to render any claim that X exists that isn't supported with evidence mere speculation.

As I said before, I have no issue with people believing in the supernatural. My issue is with people who interpret subjective experiences as factual proof. Be it god, ghosts, fairies, alien abductions or Father Christmas.
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GrindingOnDatNRG
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#222

Posted 24 December 2014 - 02:36 PM Edited by GrindingOnDatNRG, 24 December 2014 - 02:41 PM.

Fair enough, I can't argue with that.

I'm only so adamant because I have actually seen things physically move on their own. People could say I was hallucinating or whatever but I know I wasn't. It'd be rather odd to only hallucinate certain things like that and be normal in every other way.

I believe I have been haunted by a poltergeist. One time I was on the computer and one of the draw strings in my hoodie lifted up and was floating as if someone was holding it up. I noticed the movement in my peripheral vision and looked and it was floating, defying the theory physics. Then it fell back down after a 1 second like it was dropped.

That's not all though, I've felt tugs on my shirt. Hands touching me when going to sleep and my bed shaking slightly when I wasn't moving. There's way more..

The bed shaking and feeling hands on me really scared me. The bed shaking would happen every night at one point. That's when the activity began and since then escalated in severity.

It blows my mind it really does, but I trust my intuition. My intuition has been 100% accurate my whole life why would it be wrong now, is what I think.

ABCDOGGY ginette
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#223

Posted 24 December 2014 - 08:19 PM Edited by ABCDOGGY ginette, 24 December 2014 - 08:37 PM.

I'd put people who believe in aliens/UFOs and ghosts in the same category. I'll use one of my friend as example, as he and his father strongly believe in the existence of aliens and ghosts and all that paranormal sh*t. I, personally, do believe that aliens are visiting our planet since thousands of years and are in contact with us. But I know the difference between a falling star and an UFO. I won't go in depth because the topic is about ghosts.

 

I do believe that ghosts exists, but most of the parnormal stuff can be proven to not be paranormal. The other day I woke up almost throwing a punch in the air as I felt something was touching my middle toe. A lot of ignorant people would have jumped to the conclusion that a ghost was playing with their toe. The key word is IGNORANT. It was most likely me just dreaming. As member sivispacem said back in June or July 2014, I do not trust the stories that people who claim to have seen a ghost or a alien are saying. Even the stories that my BEST FRIEND is telling me, I do not trust them. Because he is IGNORANT as f*ck. I don't want to disrespect, but most of the people who see this type of sh*t and believe in it are either high school drop outs or are straight out schizoprenic. IGNORANT people with a IQ below 75. He looks up at the sky and if he sees a star flashing or believe something moved, he automatically puts it on the aliens fault. It's f*cking annoying because those type of people believe so hard in what they see, there's no way to try to make them think right. 

 

Like I said above, I do believe in ghosts, but I don't believe in what the IGNORANT people are saying. I do not trust people who see them everywhere and always seem to see a shadow moving somewhere or feel like someone touched their shoulder. Lay off the medicine a bit, man.

 

EDIT: I have a hard time explaining my opinion on this subject, if you have any questions about my beliefs or don't have a clue on what I'm trying to explain above, feel free to comment or ask me any question :) I know the way I worded my phrases it may sounds like a bunch of sentences thrown one after another and doesn't really make sense.


Ambient_
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#224

Posted 24 December 2014 - 09:16 PM

At my work; an old slaughterhouse turned restaurant over 200yrs old - the locked front door slammed open on a calm night (no wind), a few minutes later I turned around and out of the corner of my eye I saw a white shape dash behind a pillar.

Make of it what you will, but I'm not the only person to "see" something there during the early hours of the morning.

D- Ice
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#225

Posted 24 December 2014 - 11:37 PM Edited by D- Ice, 24 December 2014 - 11:39 PM.

Fair enough, but you are making the assumption that these experiences are hallucinations/delusions or whatever and that senses aren't reliable.

A degree of assumption has to be made with absolutely everything, as nothing is 100% certain. That includes believing that a wide-reaching conspiracy that manages to manipulate pretty much all data we have which says the Earth is round, does not really exist.

What's important is the amount of assumption relative to the amount of certainty.

 

The explanations I previously put forward to explain your experiences - that they were hallucinations, dilusional recollections, or plain lies - require far less assumption, and have additionally been scientifically proven far more than believing they were due to ghosts.

Below are some Wikipedia links to quickly and lazily (on my part) show how my three explanations are far more scientifically understood than ghosts:

- Hallucinations.

- Dilusions.

- Lies.

 

Of course, there are far more explanations for your experiences that are far more likely than ghosts. Those three are just what I believe are the three most likely for most ghost encounters.

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GrindingOnDatNRG
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#226

Posted 25 December 2014 - 01:05 AM Edited by GrindingOnDatNRG, 25 December 2014 - 01:05 AM.

I already understand that. It's exactly what I said, you just assume your right because it seems right. Which logically is reasonable but it's actually not correct.

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#227

Posted 25 December 2014 - 01:52 AM Edited by Ninja_Gear, 25 December 2014 - 02:00 AM.

I believe we decay and fall apart, only dust remains in the end. Energy to space dust to stardust to yet another kind of dust that will also eventually decay and fall apart into even smaller parts.... Perception of time and reality will fade and there will no longer be any any differance of an beginning or an end. Just my way of thinking.

 

So no, i don't believe in ghosts as matter, in a sense that we can see them, post selfies with them.

 

I however do believe that we need hallucinations, delusions and even religion to make sense of certain things. That is until we are developed mentally far enough that we no longer need to lie to ourselfs. If we ever get that far though. Small suggestions can even make the biggest non-believer, feel like he should be believing. That is until his/her brain comes to senses and tells him/her it was just a mental trick or perhaps an unexplainable phenomena, which your mind tried to fill up with, with a self created delusion in order to make sense of it so you don't freak out. Because after all, nothing is more scary then something that is truly unknown/unexplainable.

 

So, ghosts exist. But only in your mind. Same as a headache exists yet somebody els cannot see your headache. The brain is complicated, thats about it.

 

We cannot explain everything, but our mind is hardwired to find an explanation. Which can cause all kinds of imaginary delusion you may perceive as real, because its your brain thats making it up. A lie to yourself to make sense of something.

 

Doesn't sound more illogical then a little lie to make someone sad, scared and maybe even depressed feel good once more, now does it?


D- Ice
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#228

Posted 25 December 2014 - 02:00 AM Edited by D- Ice, 25 December 2014 - 02:07 AM.

I already understand that. It's exactly what I said, you just assume your right because it seems right. Which logically is reasonable but it's actually not correct.

I am quite disappointed you seem to think that all the arguements I put forward are merely mind projection fallacies. The great irony/hypocrisy is that your entire belief in the existance of ghosts is based solely on such a logical fallacy.

I'd certainly hope my arguements are based on the logical process and scientific proof, not simply my own experiences - like your arguement.

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-Paradocx-
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#229

Posted 26 December 2014 - 12:28 PM

look at the mirror and you will see a ghost


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#230

Posted 26 December 2014 - 01:27 PM

Yeah, I think ghosts are real. But I'm not about to argue/discuss about why I do or why I think others should, etc.
 
Just like with religion: if you believe in something, cool. Just because I don't agree with you doesn't mean I'm going to flip my sh*t and try to convince you that what I say is absolutely 100% true.
 
Everyone has a right to believe in whatever they want. Arguing with them isn't going to change it

Exactly. /thread




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