Quantcast

Jump to content

» «
Photo

Piracy can be a good thing too

13 replies to this topic
TPenterprise
  • TPenterprise

    ***Leader - WMCC *** ***Lieutenant - SURF***

  • Members
  • Joined: 23 Sep 2013
  • None

#1

Posted 12 July 2014 - 05:16 PM Edited by TPenterprise, 12 July 2014 - 05:19 PM.

    A lot of people nowadays have been involved with piracy to some degree - whether it's buying a pirate DVD at the market, or illegally downloading music. 

I myself do not agree or advocate piracy, but I think there's a different side to the negative "stealing other peoples' work" kind of view to it. 

    Take for example a teenager or a student who has no job, no money. This person wants to get into graphic design so they go looking for a photo editting software, and they find the Adobe Photoshop is the best choice - until they see the price tag. There is no chance of that person buying the software anyway, so what is wrong with them illegally obtaining it for free? (I know there are free alternatives such as GIMP etc. but lets leave that option out for the sake of argument, as this situation could apply to different softwares without free alternatives.)

   Then later in life, the person is grown up, and now has a job in graphic design and they think "hey I remember using Photoshop before, it was great, I think I'll buy that one". So now they actually purchase the software because they need it and they now have the means to do so. (any credible worker wouldn't use pirated software, and I personally would prefer to have the "official" fully functioning software if it was part of my job)

 

Something similar can be said for pirating music. Someone downloads (pirates) a new album of a band they heard, and they start to really like that band and then purchase a ticket to their next concert. I do believe if you support the artist you should pay for their work, but music is probably the most pirated thing on the internet.

 

I know I have kind of just given anecdotal examples rather than providing information, but I think it gets the point across.

 

I can see why piracy is so frowned upon, but for someone like me who doesn't have the money to pay for $3000 software, I don't see the problem with it.

 

TL;DR : Is piracy bad if you were never going to buy the thing in the first place?

 

What are your thoughts on piracy?

 

EDIT: this thread isn't an attempt to try and justify piracy, I realise it is wrong, but it does come with positive effects, even if they are only small ones.

  • Eminem! likes this

Kippers
  • Kippers

    皆さんこんにちは

  • Zaibatsu
  • Joined: 27 Oct 2004
  • United-Kingdom

#2

Posted 12 July 2014 - 07:00 PM Edited by Kippers, 12 July 2014 - 07:07 PM.

I've used piracy for both of those instances. As a previous film student, I wanted to dabble in some higher up softwares...From when I was starting out with Premiere, to experimenting with Final Cut, to Da Vinci for grading...So forth. I've been able, over the years, to determine which ones suit my style, and I now own the relevant ones legally. Some times the 30 day trail, although a great little taster, isn't necessarily enough time to get a project together and use enough of the features to make a decision.

 

Same with music selection really. Either it's A). An album I know I'm going to buy/group I'm going to support, but I want to hear it early or B). A random album I wasn't prepared to invest money in initially, but upon hearing it decided I was getting good in return. In the instance of scenario B, the person(s) have benefited because I wouldn't have taken the financial risk in the first place had a free source not been available, but was swayed after hearing it.  And as you say, there is C) I've listened to an album from a group I have had zero interest in, but for some reason something sparked an intrigue, and have found zero interest afterwards as well. I only listened because I easily could. The group hasn't benefited or lost out because I wasn't intending to buy or listen to the album in the first place.

 

 

So yeah, I guess I agree with you that there are benefits, particularly in testing the waters of your media tastes to avoid unnecessary expenditure, but it will always be a morally grey area. But so often, few come good on paying once they've consumed the material they like.

 

 

However, I've never dabbled in Game piracy or really know anything about how to do it. That seems like a messy process. I can't think of much justification for that. It seems like a different can of variants to think about.

  • CasualSergiu likes this

CantThinkOfOne2013
  • CantThinkOfOne2013

    You're all a bunch of ungrateful children

  • Members
  • Joined: 26 Aug 2013
  • Australia

#3

Posted 13 July 2014 - 04:38 AM

I agree with this and don't see why people see piracy as stealing, it's sharing.

If I were to make a game (or a movie or song for that matter), I would happily upload a torrent for it, people who can pay for it will but those who can't will still get to enjoy it.


sivispacem
  • sivispacem

    Faceless, Nameless, Endless War

  • Moderator
  • Joined: 14 Feb 2011
  • United-Kingdom
  • Contribution Award [D&D, General Chat]
    Most Knowledgeable [Vehicles] 2013
    Best Debater 2013, 2012, 2011

#4

Posted 13 July 2014 - 07:42 AM

It's a fair argument that falls down somewhat given that 1) almost all companies who sell expensive software do incredibly-reduced-in-price student versions that are usually below triple figures regardless of how expensive the initial product; 2) almost all companies who sell expensive software provide free-for use limited-period full-functionality trials of that software which enable individuals to experience and experiment with software, and 3) these days many of these companies are also releasing legacy versions of their software as freely licenced products- the best example being PhotoShop. Adobe released CS2, which is old but has pretty much the same functionality and capabilities of ~£350 CS6, as a freeware download. There are also numerous resellers of legacy software like 3DS Max who basically buy it up from companies who upgrade to later versions and then sell it on at a hugely reduced price.
  • El_Diablo likes this

igotskiz
  • igotskiz

    Mediator

  • Members
  • Joined: 18 Jun 2014
  • United-States

#5

Posted 13 July 2014 - 10:31 AM Edited by igotskiz, 13 July 2014 - 10:36 AM.

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=BxFKVSkMTNk

 

This pretty much sums up what I think of piracy. 

 

I advocate it as a means of getting your hands on media / software that you otherwise can't normally purchase (i.e it doesn't exist in marketplaces in your country, if it's not on shelves anymore, etc).

 

I also advocate music piracy, as paying for every song on iTunes should NOT be the same price as just buying the album considering the only middleman you have to deal with is Apple. Normally packaging, shipping, the disk, the case, the packet, etc. has to be processed. Not with the digital copy. In my opinion, it's a scam.

 

As far as videogames go, I'd only pirate games that are DRM-enabled, because f*ckING f*ck DRM-ENABLED GAMES I HATE HAVING TO DEAL WITH THAT sh*t I don't like DRM games. Otherwise, I just wait until it's $20 and go get it at Wal-Mart, get it off Ebay, or just accept that I can't get it.


RedDagger
  • RedDagger

    Crash test dummy

  • Leone Family Mafia
  • Joined: 24 Oct 2011
  • United-Kingdom

#6

Posted 13 July 2014 - 11:40 AM

I also advocate music piracy, as paying for every song on iTunes should NOT be the same price as just buying the album considering the only middleman you have to deal with is Apple. Normally packaging, shipping, the disk, the case, the packet, etc. has to be processed. Not with the digital copy. In my opinion, it's a scam.

 

Now hold on a minute here.

 

I know that retail versions of albums are almost always flat out £10, and on the play store they're never that much, often £7 or less.

 

Still, that's not the point. You've pretty much agreed that the physical copy has a good price, yet because there's an option (which is cheaper, may I add) that you don't agree with on the price this suddenly validates just pirating the music instead of, you know, buying the album that has an agreeable price?

 

And anyway, the physical cost of the album is nothing compared to the cut the publisher (is that the right word for music?) asks for - shipping something that tiny en masse,  the plastic packaging might be pennies at the price they get it, and printing the little booklet will tack on a bit. Yes, the disc itself won't just be pennies, but we're still not close to the physical parts of the album increasing the price enough to justify the removal of all this decreasing the price by whatever percentage will appease you. If you think the price of music is criminal, take it to the music publishers instead of just saying 'it's a scam' as an excuse to pirate it.


igotskiz
  • igotskiz

    Mediator

  • Members
  • Joined: 18 Jun 2014
  • United-States

#7

Posted 13 July 2014 - 02:34 PM

 

I also advocate music piracy, as paying for every song on iTunes should NOT be the same price as just buying the album considering the only middleman you have to deal with is Apple. Normally packaging, shipping, the disk, the case, the packet, etc. has to be processed. Not with the digital copy. In my opinion, it's a scam.

 

I know that retail versions of albums are almost always flat out £10, and on the play store they're never that much, often £7 or less.

 

I'm not sure how pounds translates to dollars, but it's $15 per album here, which is unneccessary.

 

 

 

I also advocate music piracy, as paying for every song on iTunes should NOT be the same price as just buying the album considering the only middleman you have to deal with is Apple. Normally packaging, shipping, the disk, the case, the packet, etc. has to be processed. Not with the digital copy. In my opinion, it's a scam.

 

Still, that's not the point. You've pretty much agreed that the physical copy has a good price, yet because there's an option (which is cheaper, may I add) that you don't agree with on the price this suddenly validates just pirating the music instead of, you know, buying the album that has an agreeable price?

 

No, the option is about the same. And again, the price doesn't justify what I'm getting. 

 

 

 

 

I also advocate music piracy, as paying for every song on iTunes should NOT be the same price as just buying the album considering the only middleman you have to deal with is Apple. Normally packaging, shipping, the disk, the case, the packet, etc. has to be processed. Not with the digital copy. In my opinion, it's a scam.

And anyway, the physical cost of the album is nothing compared to the cut the publisher (is that the right word for music?) asks for - shipping something that tiny en masse,  the plastic packaging might be pennies at the price they get it, and printing the little booklet will tack on a bit. Yes, the disc itself won't just be pennies, but we're still not close to the physical parts of the album increasing the price enough to justify the removal of all this decreasing the price by whatever percentage will appease you. If you think the price of music is criminal, take it to the music publishers instead of just saying 'it's a scam' as an excuse to pirate it.

 

 

1. The shipping

2. The retailer (Wal-Mart, Target, etc.)

 

More than just a little bit of plastic. It sends the prices way up.

 

And as a disclaimer: I have never pirated anything in my entire life. I don't even know how.


El_Diablo
  • El_Diablo

    "The_Devil"

  • Leone Family Mafia
  • Joined: 03 Aug 2002
  • Mars

#8

Posted 13 July 2014 - 04:10 PM

your argument is essentially that if someone uses piracy to discover something that they might purchase later then the originally piracy is OK.

I see what you're getting at, but this argument sucks.

 

it doesn't really excuse the piracy itself.

because there's no guarantee that someone is going to "support the companies" in the future after pirating once. most of the current evidence on digital piracy indicates that when someone successfully pirates one thing, they only want to pirate more and feel less and less inclined (over time) to pay for things that they can so easily obtain for free.

  • Osho likes this

Vercetti42
  • Vercetti42

    I have moved to a new account.

  • Members
  • Joined: 13 May 2013
  • India
  • Best Contributor [Gaming] 2012

#9

Posted 13 July 2014 - 05:12 PM

Piracy is neither a good thing or bad thing. It's kind of in the middle. It depends where you live in.

 

I live in a country which is developing. (India) The problem is we live in a society where we have to pirate, it's hard to avoid. We have to spend money only on necessary stuff. (food, clothing, shelter) not on entertainment. We aren't poor nor rich. We are more like middle class. At the same time we can't just go spending on entertainment, if that was the case the country would be broke by now.

 

I'm not saying I support piracy, I'd love to stop it but we have to do it, at-least until things stabilize. Once they do, piracy will be made illegal and people will stop pirating.


Osho
  • Osho

  • Members
  • Joined: 03 Nov 2012
  • None

#10

Posted 14 July 2014 - 01:16 PM

I'm not saying I support piracy, I'd love to stop it but we have to do it, at-least until things stabilize. Once they do, piracy will be made illegal and people will stop pirating.


Things will stabilize when?
Middle-class can't afford a lot of essential things too and still live without it.
But, what's so hard to avoid?
I know many Middle-class individuals who could easily re-organise the priorities so that they can support and as well buy non-pirated original products.
You really need to only keep a control on the needs, by ignoring the products that are absolutely irrelevant over the products that are priced well within your budget to afford.
In fact, how much do you spend on entertainment that you can't prevent piracy at any cost?
The problem is that you don't like to pay for softwares, music, movies, or whatever, simply because when you look around yourself people easily pirating without any fear of law or being caught then you simply DON'T WANT to buy the same legitimately wasting money on it. Even if they cost too much, then you should find cheaper and good alternatives first, or divide the value by sharing the costs with your friends, or simply choose what you could manage today in purchasing that would satisfy your entertainment ( or any other ) needs. Saying its hard to avoid and waiting for things to stabilize is definitely wrong thinking, in fact, what you need to understand and be aware of - the need to separate the *what's must and affordable* from the *total spending towards entertainment* and its definitely achievable.

Vercetti42
  • Vercetti42

    I have moved to a new account.

  • Members
  • Joined: 13 May 2013
  • India
  • Best Contributor [Gaming] 2012

#11

Posted 14 July 2014 - 04:30 PM

No, I don't like to spend on emusic/movies/games because it isn't necessary. It's only a luxury. I'm not supporting piracy but I'm not saying it's a crime either. We live in a society where every penny matters. Then again you won't understand, you don't live in India.

 

And at the rate India is going I'm sure things will stabilize in another 15 years. For me personally things would probably stabilize when I become an adult but it's longer for the whole country if you get what I mean.


Iroquois
  • Iroquois

    Mack Pimp

  • Members
  • Joined: 10 Nov 2011

#12

Posted 15 July 2014 - 01:44 AM Edited by Iroquois, 15 July 2014 - 01:49 AM.

Depends on the reason or justification to the act of piracy.

 

Such as: if its a disc for example and its stolen. Dunno, probably a bad example.

If its a tv show/series or movie that is unavailable and will continue to remain that way in your region OR wont come out for a long time and you dont have a device that can play a disc from a different region, then piracy is totally justified in that case.

If you want to try it out (like a demo).

 

But anyways, I do not see why music, show episodes, movies and games cannot work with the TV Rating concept. You know, like if youre watching a show on tv and they monitor the number of views. I mean thats how tv shows some of their cash right? From the ratings or am i horribly mistaken? If not, then why cant they do the same for torrent websites or download links, etc..?

 

But yea i agree with a few points like if you cannot afford it or if its asking for too much.

 

I once was planning on using matlab for a personal project. While i was in collge, matlab was offered to us for free. Once i finished college, i didnt get to finish my personal projects on it and it is sooo expensive to get matlab now. Im not saying illegally downloaded matlab afterwards, im just saying sometimes it is not fair if youre only going to use it for a little bit and have to pay so much.


igotskiz
  • igotskiz

    Mediator

  • Members
  • Joined: 18 Jun 2014
  • United-States

#13

Posted 15 July 2014 - 07:20 AM

 

I'm not saying I support piracy, I'd love to stop it but we have to do it, at-least until things stabilize. Once they do, piracy will be made illegal and people will stop pirating.


Things will stabilize when?
Middle-class can't afford a lot of essential things too and still live without it.
But, what's so hard to avoid?
I know many Middle-class individuals who could easily re-organise the priorities so that they can support and as well buy non-pirated original products.
You really need to only keep a control on the needs, by ignoring the products that are absolutely irrelevant over the products that are priced well within your budget to afford.
In fact, how much do you spend on entertainment that you can't prevent piracy at any cost?
The problem is that you don't like to pay for softwares, music, movies, or whatever, simply because when you look around yourself people easily pirating without any fear of law or being caught then you simply DON'T WANT to buy the same legitimately wasting money on it. Even if they cost too much, then you should find cheaper and good alternatives first, or divide the value by sharing the costs with your friends, or simply choose what you could manage today in purchasing that would satisfy your entertainment ( or any other ) needs. Saying its hard to avoid and waiting for things to stabilize is definitely wrong thinking, in fact, what you need to understand and be aware of - the need to separate the *what's must and affordable* from the *total spending towards entertainment* and its definitely achievable.

 

 

He said he lives in India, and his family's financial situation keeps him from spending too much on entertainment. I think that justifies his use of piracy if he does it.


eroch
  • eroch

    Self-Absorbed

  • Members
  • Joined: 22 Jul 2014
  • NATO

#14

Posted 04 August 2014 - 10:49 PM Edited by eroch, 04 August 2014 - 10:51 PM.

Regardless of whether the entity you're stealing from is a greedy group like the MPAA or RIAA, or some small-time developer who just wants to make a buck, you're stealing something from someone else because you can't pay for it or don't want to. Take what you want from that, but those are the facts.

Even if you can't afford it, it is still stealing. It may have been for a good cause or because you required it, but you still stole it. You can't justify stealing by saying that you really, really needed it.





1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users