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Which sports car is the best for winning races?

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Poll: Which sports car is the best for winning races? (219 member(s) have cast votes)

Which sports car is the best for winning races?

  1. Comet (4 votes [1.83%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 1.83%

  2. 9F (9 votes [4.11%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 4.11%

  3. Coquette (19 votes [8.68%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 8.68%

  4. Carbonizarre (15 votes [6.85%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 6.85%

  5. Elegy (81 votes [36.99%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 36.99%

  6. Rapid GT (6 votes [2.74%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 2.74%

  7. Banshee (6 votes [2.74%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 2.74%

  8. Surano (1 votes [0.46%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 0.46%

  9. Feltzer (9 votes [4.11%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 4.11%

  10. Oracle (1 votes [0.46%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 0.46%

  11. Fusilade (2 votes [0.91%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 0.91%

  12. Schwartzer (2 votes [0.91%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 0.91%

  13. Massacro (64 votes [29.22%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 29.22%

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jimmyjohn
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    vote for pedro

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#61

Posted 07 July 2014 - 02:41 AM

the elegy is a great car cause its free to purchase, only downside is you cant get any of your money back for the upgrades on it 


Above Omnipotence
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#62

Posted 07 July 2014 - 04:48 AM

L.....O.....L Anyone that says anything other than the Elegy for corners/turns and Massacro for long straights then, those people are CLEARLY not racers.  The silly answers I'm seeing are more than likely coming from people that definitely doesn't play on the XBOX 360.  I can never understand why people try to continue and argue their opinions over facts? LOL


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#63

Posted 07 July 2014 - 04:59 AM

Its a combination of choosing the right car and being the best at taking corners in your race lobby.

elfoam
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#64

Posted 07 July 2014 - 05:07 AM Edited by elfoam, 07 July 2014 - 05:08 AM.

Don't listen to anyone that is dead set on saying one car is better - you might not be able to drive the car the same way!

He's looking for the best all round car. That is the Elegy. Fact. It'll be the fastest on the majority of the tracks thus making overall the best car.
 
If he's not able to drive it properly that's the fault of the driver, not the car.
It's just not true,I've put hundreds if not a thousand laps on cutting corners. I can't drive the elegy faster around there which is the perfect track for it than I can drive the massacro.

On cutting corners from my two garages I'm quickest in my Zentorno, 54s, then Turismo 55s, Massacro gets nearly the same time as the Turismo, I'm not anywhere near those in the Elegy. I know the car can do it because other people do but I find it really bad handling and just can't deal with it. Plus once a track opens up you can blow it away in the mnassacro. I recently raced with a guy that had a 500-100 win loss he was driving his massacro in every race, the rest of his crew also had positive win/loss they were driving various cars, coquette, elegy, massacros one even had a sultan. Even with catch up on no one could get near the fast guy in the massacro. Amazing skills over rule car choice when the cars are close.

MrManBuz
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#65

Posted 07 July 2014 - 05:24 AM Edited by MrManBuz, 07 July 2014 - 05:49 AM.

On cutting corners from my two garages I'm quickest in my Zentorno, 54s, then Turismo 55s, Massacro gets nearly the same time as the Turismo, I'm not anywhere near those in the Elegy. I know the car can do it because other people do but I find it really bad handling and just can't deal with it. Plus once a track opens up you can blow it away in the mnassacro. I recently raced with a guy that had a 500-100 win loss he was driving his massacro in every race, the rest of his crew also had positive win/loss they were driving various cars, coquette, elegy, massacros one even had a sultan. Even with catch up on no one could get near the fast guy in the massacro. Amazing skills over rule car choice when the cars are close.

 

So you just basically said what I already said, it's the best car, it's just you can't push it hard enough. Again that's your fault not the Elegy's, and as I said if you pick the Jester, Elegy or Massacro you can't go wrong in most races against most people but the Elegy is the best.

 

 
Here you go, genius. My world record for sports cars with a 9f.

Not only has no one in an Elegy beaten that, no one has even beaten it in a supercar.

As for your argument about driver skill and the Elegy, the reason so mang people love it is due to how easy it is to drive. If it was more difficult and had higher potential, less people would like it.

He asked for the best car, and I can only imagine it was so he could have an advantage by using that car - rather than let him think a car will fix his ability to race, I gave much better advice. You seem intent on ignoring the obvious and trying to drag on an argument.

As for your challenge, I dare you to find someone to beat me in an Elegy.

I'll beat some other records with the 9f if you'd like.

http://imgur.com/D7gsLph

 

Haha so you're trying to say you were faster than bikes with a 9F? Nice try, video or that's utter bullsh*t. 

 

Edit 2: I have never even raced on that track before so I wasn't sure what sort of time the WR was(it's 27-xxx) so I'm not entirely sure why you're showing up as 4th on the global leaderboards in that photo, but you're not 4th I can assure you of that.

 

Edit: Post your fastest time on Cutting Coroners and see how it compares to the Elegy's.


hornedturtle
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#66

Posted 07 July 2014 - 05:26 AM Edited by hornedturtle, 07 July 2014 - 05:27 AM.

rapid gt is the best....if you can handle It. otherwise go for what others have said.

MrManBuz
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#67

Posted 07 July 2014 - 06:20 AM Edited by MrManBuz, 07 July 2014 - 06:26 AM.

 

Here you go, genius. My world record for sports cars with a 9f.

Not only has no one in an Elegy beaten that, no one has even beaten it in a supercar.

As for your argument about driver skill and the Elegy, the reason so mang people love it is due to how easy it is to drive. If it was more difficult and had higher potential, less people would like it.

He asked for the best car, and I can only imagine it was so he could have an advantage by using that car - rather than let him think a car will fix his ability to race, I gave much better advice. You seem intent on ignoring the obvious and trying to drag on an argument.

As for your challenge, I dare you to find someone to beat me in an Elegy.

I'll beat some other records with the 9f if you'd like.

http://imgur.com/D7gsLph

 

And keep in mind this lap time was nowhere near perfect, I've never raced on the track before and I haven't driven the Elegy properly in months (If I'm try harding I use my Jester)

 

http://imgur.com/rj5hbXG

 

 

 

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#68

Posted 07 July 2014 - 07:29 AM

The Jester is a great car if you know how to drive it, Same with Alpha.
Those Elegys and Massacro drivers depend on the car to dtive for them. But god be with them when they crash or bump...

Lord Darantuin
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#69

Posted 07 July 2014 - 09:25 AM

It always astounds me as to how many people think their Coquettes and Carbos are the best cars. Anyone who says anything but the Elegy is the best sports car is one of those people with more races losses than wins and only race "for the fun."

 

I don't agree with you. I still think Coquette is the best, atleast that's what it is for me. And I do have more race wins than losses, and I've raced quite a bit. (Actually I can say with 100% certainty that the win/loss ratio for me would be 5 times higher if I hadn't had to race hundreds of races with the retarded catchup mode).

 

You do realize that the miniscule performance differences all even out on a challenging track and it all comes down to skills? Sure, Elegy might be the best car on a straight road, but that's not racing... Well it is, but it's just drag racing, and I can tell this topic is not about drag racing.


Jimrod
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#70

Posted 07 July 2014 - 09:34 AM

After many months, many races and much testing the best car for racing, from all the sports, fully modded, on a balanced track is the Elegy. If you don't get on with it either the Massacro or Jester are about joint second depending on your preference. The Massacro needs a spoiler to really turn well though (all cars will be better with one but I found the effect quite pronounced with the Massacro to help avoid understeer).

 

On Cutting Coroners I've managed a solo 54.25 second lap in the Elegy, faster by a fraction than I've managed in a Zentorno or Entity. My best Massacro lap is around 55.2 and about 55.3 for the Jester. Cutting Coroners is a balanced track, on a longer, straighter course I'd expect the Massacro and Jester to be at least level and eventually faster if the track is long enough. On a really tight track I'd prefer the Jester for its tighter turning.

 

The other sports are all slower in one way or another though many are certainly competitive in actual racing, especially with slipstreaming/catch-up and contact on. I've won many in my Banshee and love racing in it.


Accendo
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#71

Posted 07 July 2014 - 11:06 AM

Cutting Coroners is THE sh*ttiest test track.

Jimrod
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#72

Posted 07 July 2014 - 11:10 AM

Cutting Coroners is THE sh*ttiest test track.

 

So what's better? Route 68? The Commute? Criminal Records?

 

It's easy to say something is sh*t, give an example of your genius recommendations instead so people can judge your opinion.

 

 

Cutting Coroners is a good mix of straights and bends, that's why people use it, it's balanced.


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#73

Posted 07 July 2014 - 11:27 AM

The so called "best in class" is said to be Elegy and Massacro.But I never quite liked them so I mostly do not use it.

Anyway...I prefer my Coquette (male) and 9F (female) over the two cars above.And I do quite well with both of Coquette and 9F.The 9F is awd if I remember correctly.

BigJoe_1
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#74

Posted 07 July 2014 - 12:53 PM

The so called "best in class" is said to be Elegy and Massacro.But I never quite liked them so I mostly do not use it.

Anyway...I prefer my Coquette (male) and 9F (female) over the two cars above.And I do quite well with both of Coquette and 9F.The 9F is awd if I remember correctly.

Same I but I have both the 9F and Coquette on my male Character and have the Feltzer on my female character. I'm positive that the 9F is AWD with most of the power in the rear since it does have a wide turning angle like most AWD's.


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#75

Posted 07 July 2014 - 01:02 PM

It always astounds me as to how many people think their Coquettes and Carbos are the best cars. Anyone who says anything but the Elegy is the best sports car is one of those people with more races losses than wins and only race "for the fun."



Then people who thibk winning racing depends if they live or not much be lowlife losers who live in their moms basement then huh?

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#76

Posted 07 July 2014 - 02:19 PM

 

Cutting Coroners is THE sh*ttiest test track.

 

So what's better? Route 68? The Commute? Criminal Records?

 

It's easy to say something is sh*t, give an example of your genius recommendations instead so people can judge your opinion.

 

 

Cutting Coroners is a good mix of straights and bends, that's why people use it, it's balanced.

 

 

 

 

Any track that cuts through a very tight hospital entrance and over a grassy knoll is not a very balanced track to test anything on.  Theres a reason why certain cars get faster times on that track then others. 

 

Im not sure why anyone think that track is good for testing anything at all... Because Broughy?  Doesn't seem like a good reason to me.

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A Maned Wolf
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#77

Posted 07 July 2014 - 02:32 PM

 

 

Cutting Coroners is THE sh*ttiest test track.

 

So what's better? Route 68? The Commute? Criminal Records?

 

It's easy to say something is sh*t, give an example of your genius recommendations instead so people can judge your opinion.

 

 

Cutting Coroners is a good mix of straights and bends, that's why people use it, it's balanced.

 

 

 

 

Any track that cuts through a very tight hospital entrance and over a grassy knoll is not a very balanced track to test anything on.  Theres a reason why certain cars get faster times on that track then others. 

 

Im not sure why anyone think that track is good for testing anything at all... Because Broughy?  Doesn't seem like a good reason to me.

 

I know right?

Personally, I think Through the Grape Vine is a more balanced track.

Straights, sweeping turns, elevation changes, just an all around better track for testing.


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#78

Posted 07 July 2014 - 03:25 PM

Which sports car is the best for winning races?

 

The one in first place.


Accendo
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#79

Posted 07 July 2014 - 04:37 PM


Cutting Coroners is THE sh*ttiest test track.

 
So what's better? Route 68? The Commute? Criminal Records?
 
It's easy to say something is sh*t, give an example of your genius recommendations instead so people can judge your opinion.
 
 
Cutting Coroners is a good mix of straights and bends, that's why people use it, it's balanced.
My opinion is that it's a sh*t test track and not nearly as balanced as you say. People don't actually have to justify their opinions to every yahoo on the internet, you know.
That being said, I'll do it anyway. It lacks a decent range of corners, you hop over curbs and onto grass on a variety of corners, the straights are short and insignificant, it has no variance in altitude, etc, etc.
One guy made videos testing on one track and now every kid with an internet connection thinks he's the holy messiah of racing knowledge.
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Fox Wraith
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#80

Posted 07 July 2014 - 04:44 PM

 

 

Cutting Coroners is THE sh*ttiest test track.

 

So what's better? Route 68? The Commute? Criminal Records?

 

It's easy to say something is sh*t, give an example of your genius recommendations instead so people can judge your opinion.

 

 

Cutting Coroners is a good mix of straights and bends, that's why people use it, it's balanced.

 

 

 

 

Any track that cuts through a very tight hospital entrance and over a grassy knoll is not a very balanced track to test anything on.  Theres a reason why certain cars get faster times on that track then others. 

 

Im not sure why anyone think that track is good for testing anything at all... Because Broughy?  Doesn't seem like a good reason to me.

 

So as long as a track has the ability to test a car's traction over a small off-road section then it's not valid for testing?  We won't find things like that in other tracks?  All of the cars are capable of making it through that grass knoll just fine based on how well you manage the throttle through that section.  But the ones that are putting up faster lap times are also maintaining their momentum based on their speed and traction through turns 1, 2, and 3 at a faster pace.  You can tell by taking note of the split times by the time you get to the checkpoint after turn 3.  The Coquette, Carbonizzare, and Comet which are harder to control through the grass knoll are all getting comparatively slower split times at that point after turn three before you even get to the knoll.  

 

Cutting Coroners tests the absolute limit of the car's handling characteristics.  It tests dry pavement traction, and it tests how each car handles over a grass knoll or median when you're required to take a tight turn at relatively low speed acceleration.  Both tests of which are relevant to racing in this game.  If you think there is a better track that more accurately tests the limits of each car, then go make a video of you on that track, testing each car again, put it up for the world to see.  And then tell us in that video why it's better than the track that it's already been done on.  And then we'll be out there testing the track you like and seeing if your results are accurate, which is exactly what we did with Broughy's test.  

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elfoam
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#81

Posted 07 July 2014 - 05:11 PM Edited by elfoam, 07 July 2014 - 05:16 PM.

After many months, many races and much testing the best car for racing, from all the sports, fully modded, on a balanced track is the Elegy. If you don't get on with it either the Massacro or Jester are about joint second depending on your preference. The Massacro needs a spoiler to really turn well though (all cars will be better with one but I found the effect quite pronounced with the Massacro to help avoid understeer).
 
On Cutting Coroners I've managed a solo 54.25 second lap in the Elegy, faster by a fraction than I've managed in a Zentorno or Entity. My best Massacro lap is around 55.2 and about 55.3 for the Jester. Cutting Coroners is a balanced track, on a longer, straighter course I'd expect the Massacro and Jester to be at least level and eventually faster if the track is long enough. On a really tight track I'd prefer the Jester for its tighter turning.
 
The other sports are all slower in one way or another though many are certainly competitive in actual racing, especially with slipstreaming/catch-up and contact on. I've won many in my Banshee and love racing in it.

I sold my Jester once I got the Massacro. I currently have the Massacro, Banshee, Alpha and Carbo. That's the order of their lap times also. Banshee is a very very nice car, much quicker than the similarly priced Comet. Banshee is the bargain buy in this game. I have the Elegy on my other character but as I said I can't deal with its weird alien handling and can't drive it quickly at all. Still the Massacro accelerates solo much faster than anything else in sports class plus has the highest top speed. On Grand Prix style tracks the Elegy won't get near it, on cutting corners sure but thats very tight, kind of a weird track really, great fun but not really a race track.
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AceThaCreator
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#82

Posted 07 July 2014 - 05:31 PM

Massacro>Jester>Elergy

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#83

Posted 07 July 2014 - 05:40 PM

Although my favorite is the Jester, I voted Elegy since I won quite some races with my second character, specially GTA races


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#84

Posted 07 July 2014 - 06:05 PM Edited by Vooodu, 07 July 2014 - 06:07 PM.

 

 

 

Cutting Coroners is THE sh*ttiest test track.

 

So what's better? Route 68? The Commute? Criminal Records?

 

It's easy to say something is sh*t, give an example of your genius recommendations instead so people can judge your opinion.

 

 

Cutting Coroners is a good mix of straights and bends, that's why people use it, it's balanced.

 

 

 

 

Any track that cuts through a very tight hospital entrance and over a grassy knoll is not a very balanced track to test anything on.  Theres a reason why certain cars get faster times on that track then others. 

 

Im not sure why anyone think that track is good for testing anything at all... Because Broughy?  Doesn't seem like a good reason to me.

 

So as long as a track has the ability to test a car's traction over a small off-road section then it's not valid for testing?  We won't find things like that in other tracks?  All of the cars are capable of making it through that grass knoll just fine based on how well you manage the throttle through that section.  But the ones that are putting up faster lap times are also maintaining their momentum based on their speed and traction through turns 1, 2, and 3 at a faster pace.  

 

 

 

Thats not an off road section its a short cut section.. Its a freakin hospital drive way with a grassy bump.  

 

 

  My point is a car like the Elegy can fly in and out of that hospital section and take the bump like its nothing.  While a car like the 9f for example will really have to compensate for that sh*tty section.   

 

 

Any race with a short cut section of bumps or short cuts is not really a fair testing ground for anything other then what car can take that section the best.   


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#85

Posted 07 July 2014 - 06:08 PM Edited by Jimrod, 07 July 2014 - 06:09 PM.

 

 

Cutting Coroners is THE sh*ttiest test track.

 
So what's better? Route 68? The Commute? Criminal Records?
 
It's easy to say something is sh*t, give an example of your genius recommendations instead so people can judge your opinion.
 
 
Cutting Coroners is a good mix of straights and bends, that's why people use it, it's balanced.
My opinion is that it's a sh*t test track and not nearly as balanced as you say. People don't actually have to justify their opinions to every yahoo on the internet, you know.
That being said, I'll do it anyway. It lacks a decent range of corners, you hop over curbs and onto grass on a variety of corners, the straights are short and insignificant, it has no variance in altitude, etc, etc.
One guy made videos testing on one track and now every kid with an internet connection thinks he's the holy messiah of racing knowledge.

 

 

 

Oh, I see your point. In that case I think your opinion is sh*t, just because... :)

 

 

People on the internet love to be negative without giving an alternative - I asked you what you thought was better and you still can't say.

 

The other point is there are many other good tracks, many longer tracks but to test reliably they would be harder as the longer you go the more chance there is for variance, same with elevation changes, with cars leaping through the air over bumps there's a lot more randomness so flat tracks make sense for testing outright pace. I know you're just being a troll but it seems to me there are two kinds of people here, those who actually try, test, experiment and come to their own reasonable conclusions and can back them up with figures - and those who just say sh*t like "The Comet is the best because I says so durrrr".

 

 


 

 

 

 

Cutting Coroners is THE sh*ttiest test track.

 

So what's better? Route 68? The Commute? Criminal Records?

 

It's easy to say something is sh*t, give an example of your genius recommendations instead so people can judge your opinion.

 

 

Cutting Coroners is a good mix of straights and bends, that's why people use it, it's balanced.

 

 

 

 

Any track that cuts through a very tight hospital entrance and over a grassy knoll is not a very balanced track to test anything on.  Theres a reason why certain cars get faster times on that track then others. 

 

Im not sure why anyone think that track is good for testing anything at all... Because Broughy?  Doesn't seem like a good reason to me.

 

So as long as a track has the ability to test a car's traction over a small off-road section then it's not valid for testing?  We won't find things like that in other tracks?  All of the cars are capable of making it through that grass knoll just fine based on how well you manage the throttle through that section.  But the ones that are putting up faster lap times are also maintaining their momentum based on their speed and traction through turns 1, 2, and 3 at a faster pace.  

 

 

 

Thats not an off road section its a short cut section.. Its a freakin hospital drive way with a grassy bump.  

 

 

  My point is a car like the Elegy can fly in and out of that hospital section and take the bump like its nothing.  While a car like the 9f for example will really have to compensate for sh*tty section.   

 

 

Any race with a short cut section of bumps or short cuts is not really a fair testing ground for anything other then what car can take that section the best.  

 

 

Stay left on that section through the tunnel, dab the brakes late and turn 45 degrees over that grass section - every car can go over it that way without loss of traction, you shouldn't be turning as you go over it.


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#86

Posted 07 July 2014 - 06:15 PM Edited by Vooodu, 07 July 2014 - 06:16 PM.

 

Stay left on that section through the tunnel, dab the brakes late and turn 45 degrees over that grass section - every car can go over it that way without loss of traction, you shouldn't be turning as you go over it.

 

 

 

..Dude, i really don't care.  I think its a horrible track either way.   That track favors certain cars with better traction which makes it a bad track to compare anything on.. Bottom line.  

 

 

I can take that hospital turn with a Elegy like nothing when compared to a Jester which i gotta really be careful.  Same goes with a Blade Vs a Dominator.

 

That turn and bump with a Blade is barely noticeable compared to a Dominator.  It just is what it is...  With the dominator i have to really slow down and line myself up compared to a blade, which can go in and out very easily without loss of traction.

 

 

You wanna think its a fair track for testing go nuts.  Its lop sided and will always favor certain cars over another.  But then again most track favor certain cars over others.  Which was the point i made a few posts back.

 

It will always depend on the car, track and driver.  I know alot of tracks that does not favor an Elegy at all.  


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#87

Posted 07 July 2014 - 06:31 PM Edited by Vooodu, 07 July 2014 - 06:31 PM.

 

One guy made videos testing on one track and now every kid with an internet connection thinks he's the holy messiah of racing knowledge.

 

 

 

Thats the real problem.  One guy... One guy who barely races made a video testing it.   Judging by his race record and vids im thinking thats all he does is go around Cutting Corners all day long. Theres nothing really wrong with that...

 

But the problem comes from the forum posters and followers that take it as the be all and end all. Which even in his videos he claims is not the be all end all.

 

I mean, what the reality is.  If you TEST on cutting corners you get the results for cutting corners only.      


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#88

Posted 07 July 2014 - 06:36 PM Edited by EZza2647, 07 July 2014 - 06:37 PM.

Look, you two ^^^ three, four, whatever, stop your arguing. Yeah, Cutting Coroners is alright for testing, although it's not the best.

 

In order for there to be a fair test the track has to cover all of the bases. Corners, air maneuverability (especially in a jump happy environment like GTA), and straight line speed. To me the best for these three criteria is Thrills in the Hills. http://socialclub.ro...platformId=null

 

Let's be fair. Someone in a white, stock Elegy set a time at "Noon with Clear Weather" and someone else do the same in a white, stock Massacro and post your times with a photo proving it, here.

(Same colours and same times because it's a psychological thing) And we can end this argument here once and for all.

 

Anyway, for me at least the ladder right now is like this. 

 

Tier 1: Elegy + Massacro

Tier 2: Jester + 9F+ Alpha + Comet + Carbo + Rapid GT + Surano

Tier 3: The rest

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


 

 

 

 

 

 


Vooodu
  • Vooodu

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#89

Posted 07 July 2014 - 06:42 PM Edited by Vooodu, 07 July 2014 - 06:43 PM.

 

Look, you two ^^^ three, four, whatever, stop your arguing. Yeah, Cutting Coroners is alright for testing, although it's not the best.

 

In order for there to be a fair test the track has to cover all of the bases. Corners, air maneuverability (especially in a jump happy environment like GTA), and straight line speed. 

 

 

Whos arguing?  Im just telling it how it is......   And cutting corners is not alright for testing anything.   

 

In order to test anything we need to test every car on every track ever.    We can't just pick one track and call it the be all end all.  Especially not in stock versions.

 

If you pick one track and test all cars you only get a result of what car handles that track better.


SileightyCyrus
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#90

Posted 07 July 2014 - 06:45 PM


 Here you go, genius. My world record for sports cars with a 9f.

Not only has no one in an Elegy beaten that, no one has even beaten it in a supercar.

As for your argument about driver skill and the Elegy, the reason so mang people love it is due to how easy it is to drive. If it was more difficult and had higher potential, less people would like it.

He asked for the best car, and I can only imagine it was so he could have an advantage by using that car - rather than let him think a car will fix his ability to race, I gave much better advice. You seem intent on ignoring the obvious and trying to drag on an argument.

As for your challenge, I dare you to find someone to beat me in an Elegy.

I'll beat some other records with the 9f if you'd like.

http://imgur.com/D7gsLph
 

And keep in mind this lap time was nowhere near perfect, I've never raced on the track before and I haven't driven the Elegy properly in months (If I'm try harding I use my Jester)
 
http://imgur.com/rj5hbXG

 
 
 

Yours was a flying lap, mine from a stop. I will be happy to beat that time for you tonight in the 9f.

And claiming BS on a time is the weakest of arguments. You're just verifying that you think it's unreasonably fast, and since it's legit, you're just helping neee prove my point.




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