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What do you DISLIKE about GTA IV's story?

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Niko Vercetti 112
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#31

Posted 12 July 2014 - 04:28 AM

I think it's easiest to assume that Francis, and multiple other corrupt officers, might have simply "lost" some of the evidence connecting Niko to the murder of Goldberg. The fact that Francis was doing this to cover his ass to start with made it seem as if he would have been involved in the investigation anyway.
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#32

Posted 12 July 2014 - 06:56 AM

Don't forget that Niko wasn't officially in the states. He just jumped the ship as the rest of the crew, without any papers. You can use your real name to commit a crime on the other side of the globe, but does police really connect you to it?

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#33

Posted 12 July 2014 - 07:12 AM

What do i dislike about GTA IV...I think the horrible optimisation on PC.


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#34

Posted 12 July 2014 - 02:45 PM Edited by Official General, 12 July 2014 - 02:46 PM.

Don't forget that Niko wasn't officially in the states. He just jumped the ship as the rest of the crew, without any papers. You can use your real name to commit a crime on the other side of the globe, but does police really connect you to it?

 

I always assumed that was the case. I always had the idea that Niko had entered the United States improperly.

 

What do i dislike about GTA IV...I think the horrible optimisation on PC.

 

The thread is about what you dislike in the story, not about the whole game itself. I'm guessing you have reading problems ?

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#35

Posted 12 July 2014 - 05:38 PM

I don't like Lil Jacob and his missions.


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#36

Posted 12 July 2014 - 10:53 PM

Michelle 

 

why is she Friends with Mallorie ? to spy on Niko ? but how does the U.L Paper guy know of niko if he came in by boat ? how does he  know his In America ? and im aware that his like the all seeing eye government agent guy but it was not well done by Any Means other than that i thought it was a good Story. 

 

 

 

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#37

Posted 13 July 2014 - 07:44 AM

Don't forget that ULPC guy knows Serbian (he speaks once to Niko in that language: "Just like the old country"), thus he may be involved in the events that happened 12-13 years ago in Niko's life. He got contacts on the Balkans and he knew that Niko will be coming to US via this particular ship. Michelle could be simply placed as Mallorie's friend or she was her friend before, but ULPC got to her and forced her to do the job on Niko ("we use people like her, with nothing to lose, but something to live for" or something similar along these lines). 

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#38

Posted 13 July 2014 - 12:04 PM

Spoiler

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#39

Posted 13 July 2014 - 12:37 PM

Don't forget that ULPC guy knows Serbian (he speaks once to Niko in that language: "Just like the old country"), thus he may be involved in the events that happened 12-13 years ago in Niko's life. He got contacts on the Balkans and he knew that Niko will be coming to US via this particular ship. Michelle could be simply placed as Mallorie's friend or she was her friend before, but ULPC got to her and forced her to do the job on Niko ("we use people like her, with nothing to lose, but something to live for" or something similar along these lines). 

i think saying he was Involved in the war which niko took part in or saying he has Contacts in the Balkans  is Really Just Wishful thinking.


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#40

Posted 13 July 2014 - 02:28 PM

I don't know why people want Michelle's story expanded. I honestly thought she was an annoying character. I never liked here personality and "bossy" attitude over Niko.

 

I agree about Dwayne and Playboy though. I think the choice could have also been more well balanced.


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#41

Posted 14 July 2014 - 04:15 AM

I don't know why people want Michelle's story expanded. I honestly thought she was an annoying character. I never liked here personality and "bossy" attitude over Niko.

 

 

I think that was meant to be apart of her character though. To be bossy and nosey to get information out of Niko.


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#42

Posted 16 July 2014 - 04:19 AM

 


I don't know why people want Michelle's story expanded. I honestly thought she was an annoying character. I never liked here personality and "bossy" attitude over Niko.
 

 
I think that was meant to be apart of her character though. To be bossy and nosey to get information out of Niko.
 
I think they should have expanded on the whole UL Paper story. They should have had Karen introduce Niko to the IAA world.
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#43

Posted 16 July 2014 - 05:45 PM

And why should they do that? Too much agencies and you would end up in GTA V again. IAA (I prefer ACI though) involvement was enough in IV, Niko had helped them, they've helped him and everyone was happy. 

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#44

Posted 16 July 2014 - 05:51 PM

And why should they do that? Too much agencies and you would end up in GTA V again. IAA (I prefer ACI though) involvement was enough in IV, Niko had helped them, they've helped him and everyone was happy. 

I mean that what they have is good, but they should have explained more between Niko and Karen how she got involved with the UL Paper.


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#45

Posted 16 July 2014 - 06:20 PM

And why should they do that? Too much agencies and you would end up in GTA V again. IAA (I prefer ACI though) involvement was enough in IV, Niko had helped them, they've helped him and everyone was happy. 

 

This exactly.

 

That would have been a bad idea, and like you said, it would have been similar to all that IAA and FIB story domination bullsh*t we got in GTA V. The IAA involvement in IV was more than enough indeed. 

 

 

I mean that what they have is good, but they should have explained more between Niko and Karen how she got involved with the UL Paper.

 

That's would not have been necessary. The game is centered around Niko, not Karen, he's the protagonist after all. As for Niko and Karen's relationship being explored more, there was nothing else to explore. He met her not long after arriving in LC, they got it on and she was an undercover agent, he found out and that was it, he decided cut his ties. The two fo them had no prior history or that deep a connection apart from in the bedroom. As for the aftermath,  well that could never continue if Niko was still to be involved in his gangster lifestyle after his United Paper arrangement, which of course he was. 


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#46

Posted 18 July 2014 - 06:51 AM

The fact that Niko was everyone's bitch in the story. Like seriously he couldn't just kill the people he was working for?


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#47

Posted 18 July 2014 - 07:16 AM

I hated the whole thing tbh gtavs story is a million time s better

 

Come on, most people knew that GTA V's story was the sh*t of the series. Hell even SA got a better storyline than V.

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#48

Posted 19 July 2014 - 09:15 AM

The fact that Niko was everyone's bitch in the story. Like seriously he couldn't just kill the people he was working for?

Have you even played the game? What about Vlad, Faustin, Francis McReary or Derrick McReary, Playbox X or Dwayne, etc. 

 

Niko wasn't anybody's bitch, he was just doing things necessary for survival. He didn't blindly follow orders and sometimes was too fed up with somebody's crap, so he just had to vocalize that (Museum Piece cutscene).  To be honest, many GTA protagonist can be accused of being somebody's bitch, but the most of it comes from a fact that game is based on doing other people jobs. Nobody can beat V protagonist and CJ in that matter, though.

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#49

Posted 19 July 2014 - 10:25 AM

 

The fact that Niko was everyone's bitch in the story. Like seriously he couldn't just kill the people he was working for?

Have you even played the game? What about Vlad, Faustin, Francis McReary or Derrick McReary, Playbox X or Dwayne, etc. 

 

Niko wasn't anybody's bitch, he was just doing things necessary for survival. He didn't blindly follow orders and sometimes was too fed up with somebody's crap, so he just had to vocalize that (Museum Piece cutscene).  To be honest, many GTA protagonist can be accused of being somebody's bitch, but the most of it comes from a fact that game is based on doing other people jobs. Nobody can beat V protagonist and CJ in that matter, though.

 

Why was he working for Vlad? To pay off Roman's debt when he could have just taken out Vlad right there instead of at a later point.

Why was he working for Faustin? Because he killed Vlad and Faustin would have killed him if he didn't work for him.

Why was he working for Francis McReary? Because Francis had dirt on Niko and would have had him in jail.

Derrick not so much, Playboy X had 2 missions where Niko worked for him and the other where Niko could have killed him, and Dwayne, well Playboy X paid Niko to work for him and Niko liked him because of similarities and they became friends. Yes GTA 5 protagonist were bitches for the federal government and CJ was also someone's bitch but what does that have to do with GTA 4's story? If it were what was wrong with GTA 5's story or GTA SA story then maybe you could say that as well.


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#50

Posted 19 July 2014 - 11:48 AM

Sure Niko could've just taken out Vlad the moment he saw him, but that wouldn't have been very interesting would it? The way I see it like Tycek said he done things for survival, but he wasn't an idiot.

I mean you even said it yourself in regards to Faustin if he didn't work for him he'd be dead which wouldn't have done any of us any good as players. Not working for Francis wouldn't have been very smart either.

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#51

Posted 19 July 2014 - 11:58 AM Edited by Secura, 19 July 2014 - 07:21 PM.

I absolutely adore the size, length and details that were all present in GTA IV's story, though I do wish the game had ended with Niko dying, there is nothing left for him in one particular ending and there's nothing he can do to bring any of it back, he's alone several thousand miles away from his home with no way of redeeming himself or getting back his old life, I think it would've been best if when Niko corners Dimitri on Happiness Island, they chase each other up the statue to the viewing deck where after they exchange their normal dialogue Dimitri surprises Niko and puts two shots in his chest and one through his stomach, before he can escape Niko blasts Dimitri off the side of the statue and crawls towards the wall encircling the viewing deck. 

 

That is where Jacob finds him, Niko takes one last breath, drops his gun and exclaims... "So This, is what the dream feels like, this is the victory we long for..." and shuts his eyes as the camera slowly pans up the Statue of Happiness and the credits start to role. That would've been a much more fitting ending then the one we received, I'm not saying I didn't think both endings were good on the contrary I feel both were handled exceptionally well, but I truly believe that Niko choosing to start working with a man who betrayed him once before, completely ignoring the lessons he's learned from his entire life up until that point should've been the end for him.

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#52

Posted 19 July 2014 - 02:25 PM

I absolutely adore the size, length and details that were all present in GTA IV's story, though I do wish the game had ended with Niko dying, there is nothing left for him in one particular ending and there's nothing he can do to bring any of it back, he's alone several thousand miles away from his home with no way of redeeming himself or getting back his old life, I think it would've been best if when Niko corners Dimitri on Happiness Island, they chase each other up the statue to the viewing deck were after they exchange their normal dialogue Dimitri surprises Niko and puts two shots in his chest and one through his stomach, before he can escape Niko blasts Dimitri off the side of the statue and crawls towards the wall encircling the viewing deck. 
 
That is where Jacob finds him, Niko takes one last breath, drops his gun and exclaims... "So This, is what the dream feels like, this is the victory we long for..." [/size]and shuts his eyes as the camera slowly pans up the Statue of Happiness and the credits start to role. That would've much more fitting ending then the one we received, I'm not saying I didn't think both endings were good on the contrary I feel both were handled exceptionally well, but I truly believe that Niko choosing to start working with a man who betrayed him once before, completely ignoring the lessons he's learned from his entire life up until that point should've been the end for him.


That would be epic but who would we play after completing the story? Roman?

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#53

Posted 19 July 2014 - 04:06 PM

 

 

The fact that Niko was everyone's bitch in the story. Like seriously he couldn't just kill the people he was working for?

Have you even played the game? What about Vlad, Faustin, Francis McReary or Derrick McReary, Playbox X or Dwayne, etc. 

 

Niko wasn't anybody's bitch, he was just doing things necessary for survival. He didn't blindly follow orders and sometimes was too fed up with somebody's crap, so he just had to vocalize that (Museum Piece cutscene).  To be honest, many GTA protagonist can be accused of being somebody's bitch, but the most of it comes from a fact that game is based on doing other people jobs. Nobody can beat V protagonist and CJ in that matter, though.

 

Why was he working for Vlad? To pay off Roman's debt when he could have just taken out Vlad right there instead of at a later point.

Why was he working for Faustin? Because he killed Vlad and Faustin would have killed him if he didn't work for him.

Why was he working for Francis McReary? Because Francis had dirt on Niko and would have had him in jail.

Derrick not so much, Playboy X had 2 missions where Niko worked for him and the other where Niko could have killed him, and Dwayne, well Playboy X paid Niko to work for him and Niko liked him because of similarities and they became friends. Yes GTA 5 protagonist were bitches for the federal government and CJ was also someone's bitch but what does that have to do with GTA 4's story? If it were what was wrong with GTA 5's story or GTA SA story then maybe you could say that as well.

 

Some things just happens in GTA world, because that's the basics of the game. Protagonist has to work for someone, then for some else, and so on. Most people in GTA world are hired guns working for higher authority for one reason or another. Maybe one guy who wasn't pushed around so much was Tommy, but he also had to work for Diaz at some point instead of just killing him and later even being a boss he had to do some dirty work for other people (Scott, Poulet, Baker, Love Fist guys etc.).

 

The main problem isn't if he was working for someone, because that is the point of the game and part of the gameplay. Playing as boss sitting behind the desk and pointing his finger wouldn't be as interesting as doing things yourself. Main problem is, did the protagonist do something about it. CJ and V protagonists didn't being dragged for half of the state for doing some sh*t for other people like handing over the money and getting nothing out of it). Niko did what he did, because he had no other choice. Roman was sitting in Vlad's pocket, but because he had powerful friends Niko's hands were tied. He killed Albanians without any remorse and second thoughts and Roman was also in debt to them. Working for Faustin was simply result  of Vlad's death, because Niko was fed up with his sh*t. He was also fed up with Francis's and Playboy's sh*t, so these can end like they did. That's the point. It's not if character is working for one character, then for other instead of killing them all, it's if he did something about it. And Niko did it many times, showing he doesn't care about other people business as long as his plate will be full. 

 

@Secura

No offence, but that would be cliche ending. We've seen many like these in movies and having one right there would be simply weak. The one in game is much better.

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#54

Posted 19 July 2014 - 05:21 PM Edited by Secura, 19 July 2014 - 05:25 PM.

I think it's actually not that cliche, it's just a way of making the player's decision more impactful, if you really want to just go back to Dimitri for cash you know you don't need, completely neglecting or simply consigning to oblivion the reasons he's in the mess that he is then you deserve to be shown what that does for you Tycek, because in all honestly an ending like that rings truer and deeper than the original. It's one of the reasons I think that IV's money mechanic is so moot yet it's intentionally so, Niko is a stranger in America and he has to shown or told how to purchase any of the items in the game before he actually does it, he never once takes any monetary initiative and puts the money he earns to good use, the money that he's earning he doesn't even know how to use, all he knows is his past and how badly he needed it then and how badly he thinks he needs it now.

 

In the end, when you take a look at it, nearly every decision in the game is based off of a simple but engaging greed vs morality bout. Killing Ivan is where it starts, do you want to get rid of him to please Vlad for more cash or would you rather save him to spite the f*cker who put you up to it in the first place. Niko's whole journey is about him realizing that he was happier at the start of the game then he was at the end of it. IV's money system is there to make the player think, I've got all this cash but very little to spend it on, and that's because once you and Roman get past affording the basics there's very little else Niko could conceivably want, he just panics and the panic drives him to be consumed by this unrelenting inexorable need for money and so the further he's dragged into the crime web the more cash he thinks he needs to be happy enough to escape it. 

 

It's a vicious cycle and vicious cycles can really only end one way, badly. Niko and the player should be punished for what they fought for, in the end all the money they earn, all the people they kill, all the bridges they burn and build, all the things they create and destroy in pursuit of the almighty dollar that does nothing for them ends with Niko dying before he finally realizes the futility of his monetary urges and is able to let go, and in a sense be with Roman again. The ending we got was powerful enough, but I feel as though a repercussion like that would've been a far more telling and severe version of the one we ended up with.


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#55

Posted 19 July 2014 - 07:38 PM

Nothing's really on my mind, so i will say nothing. It was perfect for me overall. Maybe there are some mnior things or not, but it doesn't affect on anything that much.


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#56

Posted 20 July 2014 - 10:21 PM Edited by uncredited, 20 July 2014 - 10:22 PM.

Many good answers and opinions over here, it's nice to read people's opinions.

As far as I am concerned, I always wanted to meet Bulgarin again after the diamond story, during my first walkthrough. Bulgarin seems to be such an important character from the beginning but we are not given anything about him apart from the fact that he believes Niko owes him money. We deal with him by playing Luis but I would have preferred that Niko dealt with him.
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#57

Posted 20 July 2014 - 10:35 PM Edited by fefenc, 20 July 2014 - 10:37 PM.

What I dislike? Well, GTA IV missions are too easy and repetitive, with exception of 2 missions (The Snow Fall and Smackdown), I could beat the game only using Desert Eagle on missions that don't require you to use a sniper.

 

TBOGT by the other hand was perfect (besides the short story mode), there's a lot of difficult missions in that game that I've seen myself obligated to use all my arsenal and I was still failing the missions, like that mission where you must defend Tony inside Maisonette 9 from 875629619 Russians mobsters that was trying to kill both Luis and Tony.

 

Sadly for me, people are speaking that GTA V is even easier than GTA IV, I hope the online heists have the TBOGT difficulty level :(

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#58

Posted 21 July 2014 - 05:47 AM

One problem I have is that after the whole Dimitri betrayal that it really doesn't feel too focussed. I suppose much of it is simply Niko looking for both Dimitri and either Florian or Darko, but still. Also not a big fan of the villains. Dimitri was good but not as involved, and Pegorino was a good character but didn't seem worthy as a stand in. Not as bad as V's but less impressive than Big Smoke or Tenpenny to me.

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#59

Posted 21 July 2014 - 06:23 AM

One problem I have is that after the whole Dimitri betrayal that it really doesn't feel too focussed. I suppose much of it is simply Niko looking for both Dimitri and either Florian or Darko, but still. Also not a big fan of the villains. Dimitri was good but not as involved, and Pegorino was a good character but didn't seem worthy as a stand in. Not as bad as V's but less impressive than Big Smoke or Tenpenny to me.

 

I disagree though. Dimitri calls you regularly after some missions that involve the Russian mafia, it kinda makes the whole betrayal thing more apparent.

 

OT: Another thing is the how Phil Bell isn't that involved in the story, he's quite interesting to me.

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#60

Posted 21 July 2014 - 06:40 AM

What I dislike? Well, GTA IV missions are too easy and repetitive, with exception of 2 missions (The Snow Fall and Smackdown), I could beat the game only using Desert Eagle on missions that don't require you to use a sniper.
 
TBOGT by the other hand was perfect (besides the short story mode), there's a lot of difficult missions in that game that I've seen myself obligated to use all my arsenal and I was still failing the missions, like that mission where you must defend Tony inside Maisonette 9 from 875629619 Russians mobsters that was trying to kill both Luis and Tony.
 
Sadly for me, people are speaking that GTA V is even easier than GTA IV, I hope the online heists have the TBOGT difficulty level :(

We're only talking about the story. Not the missions. I think people really need to try and distinguish the two.
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