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Maturity is necessary to appreciate a Grand Theft Auto title

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Spadge007
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#1

Posted 09 June 2014 - 06:41 PM Edited by Spadge007, 21 June 2014 - 07:27 PM.

Hey Community !

 

Important note : Don't mix up the appreciating with simple enjoyment. You can enjoy a GTA game very easily, but appreciation is a "clear perception or recognition, esp. of historic importance and aesthetic quality" if we consider video games as art ; "Awareness or delicate perception, especially of aesthetic qualities or values" if more general.

 

I'm writing this because the subject I'm gonna talk about turns out to be almost everywhere on the net, under every single Youtube video about GTA, on TV talk shows etc.

Grand Theft Auto and kids ... Are tiresome subject, even more tiresome if you got one that connected on your vocal chat ..

 

I think those big red numbers on the game cover aren't just some fancy adornments, from a general point of view GTA has a lot of mature content under it's pure form, gore, sexual content, swearing, violence and also a way of exolting a criminal lifestyle in a more tacit way. I'm not going further on those arguments because you hear them all over on some cheap TV talk shows with overcaring, over protective & ignorant parents that should inform theirselves rather than starting to blame something in it's entirety. Before blaming a game which has an explicit and visible PEGI rating because it may harm their 12 year old son who somehow managed to get the game running on his console, learn to parent first ! Growing a kid is the affair of the parents, however they have to claim the responsability of possbile consequences.

It's true that those kind of games may represent a danger for kids, who may be suggestible by such stuff, but after all we know that those "pieces of software" are not training devices for terrorists, I think people should get their guns under control before blaiming video games. (Not saying with should forbid to americans to carry guns, but just regulate the whole matter).

 

There's another point I want to clear out, which is more important to me, the question of appreciating such a game right, which doesn't only conscern the younger players among us. A GTA game is fully-loaded with pop-culture references, allusions to Movies/Series, books, personalities, and of course, politics. This starts from the very early GTA III to the current titles. Just take Vice City for example, the game takes most of it's inspirations from Miami Vice and Scarfaces, references which are almost a must-know when you play this game. I remember always having a grin of my face when I walked through the story and heard a famous movie line here and there, some ad banners or radio spots which were an allusion to that movie or when you figure out that Ray Liotta was grateful enough to lend his voice to Tommy and the great Phillip Micheal Thomas, Ricardo Tubbs from Miami Vice was voice acting Lance Vance ! The writers and developers always rewarded you at a point by diggin' a bit and placing some cool insiders here and there.

Even bigger in GTA 5, such a big world with so much "insiders", the one I remembered like Lethal Weapons, Ghostbusters, Wayne's World, The Shining and of course how could you miss it, the legendary Kenny Loggins moderating Rock Radio himself  :music: . The ingame TV series, the social satire and everything else

 

Then I have to say, it's just depressing after all of this to encounter some prepub playing the game confronting you with a "I ain't give a sh*t attitude". "The deeper parody of the game is lost among all those 14 years old kids. All they care about is stealing some virtual vehicle that will advance them no further than their own f*kin living rooms". (Only adressed to this kind of public)

 

I think understanding and appreciating such a game requires a minimum of prime of life, general knowledge, some references and maturity, because, especially games like Grand Theft Auto which try to create an atmosphere and focus on the depth in the game-world.

 

Don't think I'm radical on my opinion, what I call matureness isn't acquired by archieving the age which is indicated on a game cover, of course there are some people that walk life with open eyes at almost any age and have other points of interests than the typical hyped bullsh*t we all get fed with, but I still encounter some which remain formatted individuals which don't search further in their interests than the latest diffused stuff.

 

When social fatalism encounters personal freedom, it doesn't always end well ..

 

Keen to know your opinions and reactions about this subject,

Spadge.

 

PS : Sorry for possible errors, english is not my mother tongue.

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Flūttershy
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#2

Posted 09 June 2014 - 06:47 PM

As a 15 year old I see the game as much more than just "steal that car and kill that guy, hurrdurrrr" but rather as a clever and fairly deep social satire. I think it's really up to an individual's standpoint more than age, and it's a parent's responsibility to decide if a child is mature enough to understand the full meaning of a game.
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RoadRunner71
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#3

Posted 09 June 2014 - 06:49 PM

I rather to mindlessly run over people and slap bitches.


Spadge007
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#4

Posted 09 June 2014 - 07:00 PM

As a 15 year old I see the game as much more than just "steal that car and kill that guy, hurrdurrrr" but rather as a clever and fairly deep social satire. I think it's really up to an individual's standpoint more than age, and it's a parent's responsibility to decide if a child is mature enough to understand the full meaning of a game.

 

Saying it only depends from the personal standpoint is a very easy answer.

 

From what or who does that personal standpoint depend ? Is it your socio-layer ? Is is your own personal freedom ?

Let's say we go from the thought that every individual chooses his "personal standpoint", why are there still such people in the world ? Just saying their dumb would be to easy, again ..

 

I think age is a condition to maturity, as nothing comes without an effort or experience. However, it's only one of the factors, some people advance faster than others, does this have to do with the "personal standpoint" ?


Flūttershy
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#5

Posted 09 June 2014 - 07:06 PM Edited by rawrsnar, 09 June 2014 - 07:07 PM.

As a 15 year old I see the game as much more than just "steal that car and kill that guy, hurrdurrrr" but rather as a clever and fairly deep social satire. I think it's really up to an individual's standpoint more than age, and it's a parent's responsibility to decide if a child is mature enough to understand the full meaning of a game.

 
Saying it only depends from the personal standpoint is a very easy answer.
 
From what or who does that personal standpoint depend ? Is it your socio-layer ? Is is your own personal freedom ?
Let's say we go from the thought that every individual chooses his "personal standpoint", why are there still such people in the world ? Just saying their dumb would be to easy, again ..
 
I think age is a condition to maturity, as nothing comes without an effort or experience. However, it's only one of the factors, some people advance faster than others, does this have to do with the "personal standpoint" ?
What I mean by personal standpoint is by someone's maturity and ability to interpret things. So someone who can understand the game on a deeper level than just killing innocents is more apt to play it IMO, and this doesn't depend solely on age. There could be a 16 year old who is able to interpret "themes" and "undertones" better than a 20 year old.

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#6

Posted 09 June 2014 - 07:24 PM

As a 15 year old.

 

im telling police on you.


Spadge007
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#7

Posted 09 June 2014 - 08:04 PM Edited by Spadge007, 21 June 2014 - 06:19 PM.

 

 

As a 15 year old I see the game as much more than just "steal that car and kill that guy, hurrdurrrr" but rather as a clever and fairly deep social satire. I think it's really up to an individual's standpoint more than age, and it's a parent's responsibility to decide if a child is mature enough to understand the full meaning of a game.

 
Saying it only depends from the personal standpoint is a very easy answer.
 
From what or who does that personal standpoint depend ? Is it your socio-layer ? Is is your own personal freedom ?
Let's say we go from the thought that every individual chooses his "personal standpoint", why are there still such people in the world ? Just saying their dumb would be to easy, again ..
 
I think age is a condition to maturity, as nothing comes without an effort or experience. However, it's only one of the factors, some people advance faster than others, does this have to do with the "personal standpoint" ?
What I mean by personal standpoint is by someone's maturity and ability to interpret things. So someone who can understand the game on a deeper level than just killing innocents is more apt to play it IMO, and this doesn't depend solely on age. There could be a 16 year old who is able to interpret "themes" and "undertones" better than a 20 year old.

 

 

You should consider exterior factors, but I think our point of views converge here, I think attitude, by what it may be influenced or not is an important factor :)


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#8

Posted 09 June 2014 - 10:38 PM

I enjoyed VC just fine when I was little. Understanding all the references and parodies just makes enhances the game even more.

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#9

Posted 10 June 2014 - 12:40 AM

I would have been about 15 when GTA 3 came out. I had already played 1 and 2 but never the story (I didn't own them, so every time I played round a friends house I started a new game)

I absolutely loved everything about the game. The jokes, the "mature" content (let's be honest, most of it is immature! :D), the story, the violence etc.

And I have never had the urge to recreate anything from the game in real life. But I guess the real problem lies with kids today. Everything is just too easy for them. How many 10 year olds do you see with ipads? And smartphones? They can't distinguish virtual from reality because these days you're really living a virtual life online alongside you're real one.

It really does come down to the parents. The kids need to play in the real world first so they get a better understanding of life and consequences etc. So yeah what the Op said really! :D
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jpm1
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#10

Posted 10 June 2014 - 02:45 AM Edited by jpm1, 10 June 2014 - 03:50 AM.

well i think kids should be given some "limits" . it's parents role after all . but i also know by personal experience that when you want to force people to do something without letting them understand they almost systematically do the opposite . it's in the nature of brained creatures to understand why they do something . then i think it's up to parents to find the good scales between the 2


matajuegos01
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#11

Posted 10 June 2014 - 03:47 AM

I didn't bother to read your post because your title says that the GTA franchise is a mature one, and it isn't.


tehSpitefulPotato
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#12

Posted 10 June 2014 - 07:21 AM Edited by tehSpitefulPotato, 10 June 2014 - 07:22 AM.

lol ops post sux. i like entring teh tank cheetcode and kill evryone, missons is boring

(not seriously)


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#13

Posted 10 June 2014 - 10:04 AM

I don't think you have to be mature to enjoy the game. Of course you have to be able to tell right from wrong and real from fiction, but mature? I wouldn't think so. My brother got me into GTA 3 when I was around 6 and I got a kick out of it. I very rarely did missions and whenever I did, all the naughty references flew over my head.

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#14

Posted 10 June 2014 - 10:46 AM

Yeah you've posted the same topic somewhere else so I'll just copy over my response.

 

I think those big red numbers on the game cover aren't just some fancy adornments, from a general point of view GTA has a lot of mature content under it's pure form, gore, sexual content, swearing, violence and also a way of exolting a criminal lifestyle in a more tacit way. I'm not going further on those arguments because you hear them all over on some cheap TV talk shows with overcaring, over protective, dumb & ignorant parents that should inform theirselves rather than starting to blame something in it's entirety. Before blaming a game which has an explicit and visible PEGI rating because it may harm your 12 year old son who somehow managed to get the game running on his console, learn to parent first !


Stating the obvious here. Of course the numbers on the box are more than 'fancy adornments', and the boxes pretty clearly signpost that. Not sure what your general point is here, or even if you have one.
 

It's true that those kind of games may represent a danger for kids, who may be suggestible by such stuff, but after all we know that those "pieces of software" are not training devices for terrorists, I think people should get their guns under control before blaiming video games. (Not saying with should forbid americans to carry guns, but just regulate the whole matter).


What do you mean by 'suggestible' in this context? Do you mean influenced? And influenced in what way? If you are talking about children actually repeating what they see in violent games then I don't think your point holds water in most cases. If you are talking about their attitudes towards the media and authority being changed as a result then I do agree, but I'm still waiting for you to make an actual point worthy of proper discussion.

Also, just as a heads-up, guns in the USA are regulated, just very poorly.
 

There's another point I want to clear out, which is more important to me, the question of appreciating such a game right, which doesn't only conscern the younger players among us. A GTA game is fully-loaded with pop-culture references, allusions to Movies/Series, books, personalities, and of course, politics. This starts from the very early GTA III to the current title. Just take Vice City for example, the game takes most of it's inspirations from Miami Vice or Scarfaces, references which are a must-know when you play this game.


OK so now we're finally getting to the meat of your post. You appear to be conflating the terms 'appreciate' and 'enjoy'. You can 'enjoy' something without fully appreciating everything behind it, just as you can 'appreciate' something without enjoying it. One is not a prerequisite for the other and that is where your argument falls flat on its arse.

Such references are thus not a 'must-know' when you play the game, they may elicit a knowing smile from an adult player who is familiar with Scarface but they do not add anything to the storyline of the game that is absolutely crucial for progression within the in-game environment.
 

I remember always having a grin of my face when I walked through the story and heard a famous movie line here and there, some ad banners or radio spots which were an allusion to that movie or when you figure out that Ray Liotta was grateful enough to lend his voice to Tommy and the great Phillip Micheal Thomas, Ricardo Tubbs from Miami Vice was voice acting Lance Vance ! The writers and developers always rewarded you at a point by diggin' a bit and placing some cool insiders here and there.[...] The ingame TV series, the social satire and everything else


You're possibly contradicting yourself a bit here by talking about 'some ad banners or radio spots'. They're not very important in the grand scheme of things and their only focus is to try and add some humour to the game based off of real events. An understandng of such small, unimportant things is not necessary to succeed in any missions, nor is it necessarily going to add anything to the replayability factor of the game.
 

Then I have to say, it's just depressing after all of this to encounter some prepub playing the game. "The deeper parody of the game is lost among all those 14 years old snobs. All they care about is stealing some virtual vehicle that will advance them no further than their own f*kin living rooms".

I daresay that plenty of 14 year old 'snobs' (why have you chosen that word there anyway?) understand at least a reasonable amount of the satire in the game, and if they are confused then they can read about it on the internet or ask a parent about it. I would also like to know who exactly it is that you are quoting here?

As an aside, when you are playing a mission do you necessarily think of anything other than the mission objective? I know I sometimes develop a sense of tunnel vision, and I'm an adult, so to castigate others for doing that is a little beyond my remit.
 

I think understanding such a game requires a minimum of prime of life, general knowledge, some references and maturity, because, especially GTA games try to create atmosphere and give depth to the game world.


Oh yes, understanding a game like GTA does require some degree of knowledge about other things. That's not exactly earth-shattering. But understanding doesn't necessarily overlap 100% with enjoyment as I've already said earlier (albeit in a different manner, reacting to a slightly different thing that you said in a previous paragraph). With that in mind I think it would be fair for me to say that you are confusing your words a lot here, and that is definitely costing your argument.

 

What is this 'prime of life' that you speak of?

There are also different levels of understanding, which I feel that your post doesn't account for. Do you mean understanding the mission structure, the programming, or the satire? Or all three?
 

Don't think I'm radical on my opinion, what I call matureness isn't acquired by archieving the age which is indicated on a game cover, of course there are some people that walk life with open eyes and have other points of interests than the typical hyped bullsh*t, but most of them remain formatted individuals which don't search further than the latest music clip.


So are you proposing that we all just stop playing games until we reach some arbitrary measure of maturity? And what are these 'formatted individuals'? Is that just a general swipe at teenagers, or did something meaningful get lost in translation?
 

When social fatalism encounters personal freedom, it doesn't always end well ..


I have no idea what you are trying to say here, or how it relates at all to anything that you have previously said. Which makes it a perfect conclusion to a very confusing post...


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#15

Posted 11 June 2014 - 08:48 AM

"Who needs references to sh*tty non-comedy movies from before I was even f*cking born when I can fly a gangbanger to a hairdresser with a jetpack and use an invincibility cheat to kill things without having any challenge?"

This is the logic behind most people playing GTA. Hell did anyone even pick up the Fargo reference in Dropping In from TBOGT between Luis and Timur? Or did everyone just care up parachuting and killing a bunch of guys for reasons they didn't understand because they skip all the cutscenes?

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#16

Posted 11 June 2014 - 02:41 PM

I was 9 when I got GTA Vice City. I did missions but never understood what the characters were speaking of, so I always skipped the cutscenes (except the ones I found interesting). It was always like follow the checkpoints, kill the enemies and mission passed. I actually enjoyed the game much more then I do now. So I don't really think that maturity is an important factor for enjoying any GTA game.


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#17

Posted 12 June 2014 - 11:04 AM Edited by Luddite, 12 June 2014 - 11:48 AM.

As a "mature" (socially-responsible) adult I could not fully enjoy gta because I am diametrically against the behavior of the protag.

I allow myself to slough the bonds of social training that is "maturity" and get crazy cathartic by blastin fools and runnin over anyone with no remorse.

Ignoring my maturity allows me the most enjoyment imo.

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#18

Posted 12 June 2014 - 12:23 PM

You are right, but I look at it 2 ways in my own personal life,

 

When I was a child playing SA, I loved the game, and I was not that mature. And it was the same for past gta games; I went free roaming and killing it was fun. When I did missions in GTA, I still understood the stuff to do..

 

Maybe you need to be mature for newer games; because most games are just too complex compared to past games


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#19

Posted 12 June 2014 - 04:29 PM Edited by Luddite, 12 June 2014 - 11:54 PM.

Maybe one needs to be more thoughtful when using he second person pronoun. Although unintentional, it may seem as though one is addressing another specifically.

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#20

Posted 12 June 2014 - 05:16 PM

I rather to mindlessly run over people and slap bitches.

 

Same here!


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#21

Posted 12 June 2014 - 07:58 PM

GTA is not all about "killing random pedestrian with tanks and YOLO stuff". It is the brilliant details, easter eggs, trivia, references and the reflection of the America social. But it's sad, people only focus on the violence and blame the game.

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#22

Posted 13 June 2014 - 05:11 PM Edited by Spadge007, 13 June 2014 - 06:07 PM.

I didn't bother to read your post because your title says that the GTA franchise is a mature one, and it isn't.

 

The notion of maturity applies to the player, not the to the game. Considering your reply*, I'm very glad you didn't want to take part in the conversation.

 

*your poor reading skills if you prefer.

 

 

Biased and personal offending post.

 

1. By "suggestible" I mean influenced, that's the way it's translated from my mother thongue into english. Instead of reproaching my post to hold no point, you should first read the rest of the paragraph.

 

2. Enjoy something right = appreciate, I admit I could have been clearer here. To enjoy a GTA it doesn't take much, my little cousin enjoys Vice City a lot, even though he doesn't understand a thing about the references, plus he hasn't killed somebody yet. What takes us back to point one. He's mentally sane and his parents know how to care for their little boy.

 

You're possibly contradicting yourself a bit here by talking about 'some ad banners or radio spots'. They're not very important in the grand scheme of things and their only focus is to try and add some humour to the game based off of real events. An understandng of such small, unimportant things is not necessary to succeed in any missions, nor is it necessarily going to add anything to the replayabilit

 

3. I think this is still an affirmation caused by the fact that you read "enjoy" into "enjoying right", may I excuse myself for that again. I'm able to edit the content of the post, but not it's title. After seeing it on the board I figured out that I completely skipped this during the re-reading of my post. It's not your fault.

 

I daresay that plenty of 14 year old 'snobs' (why have you chosen that word there anyway?) understand at least a reasonable amount of the satire in the game, and if they are confused then they can read about it on the internet or ask a parent about it. I would also like to know who exactly it is that you are quoting here?

As an aside, when you are playing a mission do you necessarily think of anything other than the mission objective? I know I sometimes develop a sense of tunnel vision, and I'm an adult, so to castigate others for doing that is a little beyond my remit.

 

 

4. How can you ask someone about something you don't even noticed ? It's not like someone would point out an allusion like "I felt like Lorenzo when he killed duke Alexander", there of course you are aware of what you missed, but there are other physical forms of allusions and references like visual parrallels, and insiders which don't go like : "hey, I'm an physically explicit reference, google me !".

Conscerning priority of information, will all miss something sometimes, but the developers are aware of that, so most of those references are placed during cutscenes.

 

*I'm not commenting the rest of the post because most of it still is a commentary, or better said a fault of a virtual text which confounds appreciation with enjoyment. I'm gonna do an excpection for these famous last words : 

 

I have no idea what you are trying to say here, or how it relates at all to anything that you have previously said. Which makes it a perfect conclusion to a very confusing post...

 

To stay on subject, what I said is like a reference, you can't blame someone else for not getting it.

 

*There's a reference hidden in this sentence, see if you'll find it, just wanna illustrate proposition 4. [Easy one (; ]

 

Considering the enterity of my post, I tried to stay as polite as possible.

 

 

 


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#23

Posted 18 June 2014 - 11:53 PM

Oh that's nice. Tell you what. Get a gun, come to my house, put it to my head, then you can tell me how to play a game I bought. Deal?


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#24

Posted 19 June 2014 - 03:09 PM

Oh that's nice. Tell you what. Get a gun, come to my house, put it to my head, then you can tell me how to play a game I bought. Deal?

 

I bet you're the toughest kid on the playground, aren't ya ?


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#25

Posted 19 June 2014 - 11:15 PM

 

Oh that's nice. Tell you what. Get a gun, come to my house, put it to my head, then you can tell me how to play a game I bought. Deal?

 

I bet you're the toughest kid on the playground, aren't ya ?

 

Actually I'm 20. But there is no right way to play GTA and there never has been. People just like to say that because they feel the need to be smug and arrogant on the internet but don't have anything good to be smug about.


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#26

Posted 20 June 2014 - 09:28 AM

You don't need to be age maturity, but you need to be psychical maturity to enjoy the game. In other life aspects too.

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#27

Posted 20 June 2014 - 06:34 PM

Hey Community !

 

I writing this because the subject I'm gonna talk about turns out to be almost everywhere on the net, under every single Youtube video about GTA, on TV talk shows etc.

Grand Theft Auto and kids ... Are tiresome subject, even more tiresome if you got one that connected on your vocal chat ..

 

I think those big red numbers on the game cover aren't just some fancy adornments, from a general point of view GTA has a lot of mature content under it's pure form, gore, sexual content, swearing, violence and also a way of exolting a criminal lifestyle in a more tacit way. I'm not going further on those arguments because you hear them all over on some cheap TV talk shows with overcaring, over protective, dumb & ignorant parents that should inform theirselves rather than starting to blame something in it's entirety. Before blaming a game which has an explicit and visible PEGI rating because it may harm your 12 year old son who somehow managed to get the game running on his console, learn to parent first ! Growing a kid is the affair of the parents, however they have to claim the responsability of possbile consequences.

It's true that those kind of games may represent a danger for kids, who may be suggestible by such stuff, but after all we know that those "pieces of software" are not training devices for terrorists, I think people should get their guns under control before blaiming video games. (Not saying with should forbid americans to carry guns, but just regulate the whole matter).

 

There's another point I want to clear out, which is more important to me, the question of appreciating such a game right, which doesn't only conscern the younger players among us. A GTA game is fully-loaded with pop-culture references, allusions to Movies/Series, books, personalities, and of course, politics. This starts from the very early GTA III to the current title. Just take Vice City for example, the game takes most of it's inspirations from Miami Vice or Scarfaces, references which are a must-know when you play this game. I remember always having a grin of my face when I walked through the story and heard a famous movie line here and there, some ad banners or radio spots which were an allusion to that movie or when you figure out that Ray Liotta was grateful enough to lend his voice to Tommy and the great Phillip Micheal Thomas, Ricardo Tubbs from Miami Vice was voice acting Lance Vance ! The writers and developers always rewarded you at a point by diggin' a bit and placing some cool insiders here and there.

Even bigger in GTA 5, such a big world with so much "insiders", the one I remembered like Lethal Weapons, Ghostbusters, Wayne's World, The Shining and of course how could you miss it, the legendary Kenny Loggins moderating Rock Radio himself  :music: . The ingame TV series, the social satire and everything else

 

Then I have to say, it's just depressing after all of this to encounter some prepub playing the game. "The deeper parody of the game is lost among all those 14 years old snobs. All they care about is stealing some virtual vehicle that will advance them no further than their own f*kin living rooms".

 

I think understanding and appreciating such a game requires a minimum of prime of life, general knowledge, some references and maturity, because, especially GTA games try to create atmosphere and give depth to the game world.

 

Don't think I'm radical on my opinion, what I call matureness isn't acquired by archieving the age which is indicated on a game cover, of course there are some people that walk life with open eyes and have other points of interests than the typical hyped bullsh*t we all get fed with, but most of them remain formatted individuals which don't search further than the latest music clip.

 

When social fatalism encounters personal freedom, it doesn't always end well ..

 

Keen to know your opinions and reactions about this subject,

Spadge.

 

Lately it seems to be the contrary. The less mature people are the ones that are enjoying the new GTA5 a lot (or at least they say that they are enjoying it, cus its not really a choice with some people).

A mature person would have been bored with GTA5 after a week, just like me :cool:


bengalboy_0701
  • bengalboy_0701

    Running through the runways since Y2K

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#28

Posted 20 June 2014 - 06:51 PM

Has anyone else noticed the title is misspelled?

*nessecary=neccesary

Severe
  • Severe

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#29

Posted 21 June 2014 - 05:32 AM

Has anyone else noticed the title is misspelled?

*nessecary=neccesary

'Necessary'. But whatever.

 

Also, this entire topic: Boohoo, some people are playing the game wrong.

 

610.gif

 

Maybe younger/immature people won't 'get' everything in the game, but then, stupid people might not either. Or people who just happen to have not seen this movie or other. Should there be a test before being allowed to play the game? A reading list, maybe?

 

"The deeper parody of the game is lost among all those 14 years old snobs"

 

Oh the irony.


hornedturtle
  • hornedturtle

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#30

Posted 21 June 2014 - 05:44 AM

wait....so because I play the game for the gameplay and could not give 2 f*cks about some reference and its possible deeper meaning behind it I'm playing it wrong? and I'm the snob?




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