Quantcast

Jump to content

» «
Photo

Three RCMP Officers Shot and Killed in Moncton, Canada

133 replies to this topic
Officer620
  • Officer620

    Federal Agent

  • Members
  • Joined: 31 Jan 2012
  • None

#121

Posted 11 June 2014 - 03:22 AM

 

 

It is no where near as threatening as it's made to be, and by no means a justification for strapping police officers with automatic weapons and mine resistant military vehicles. 


I'd love to see you say that when in an environment where heavily armed individuals are going around shooting innocent civilians all around you and see if you share the same opinion that police shouldn't be armed with assualt rifles and tactical armoured vehicles.

 

 

Oh well yeah sure, in a perfect world and all I'm sure it'd be great.. but trusting the same government who commits war crimes and feels the need to spy on it's own citizens without warrant with such heavy artillery aimed to be used against it's own people is a little unsettling. Not to forget DHS stockpiling 20 years worth of ammunition recently as if they're preparing for war.

 

I mean military MRAPS... really? That's a little overkill. hah

 

 

It's far from a perfect world, which is why law enforcement personnel are equipped with the appropriate weapons to deal with the threats that arise, such as the one in this topic. They have to be equipped in such a way that they will be able to effectively protect the public (that's your sorry ass) from certain individuals who find it necessary to open fire with deadly weapons. It's not a case of militarising the police, but as you said, in an imperfect world there is simply no alternative.

 

Remember, these are the guys and girls who are running towards that threat to protect you, when you are more than likely the one running away from it.

 

Cheers!


sivispacem
  • sivispacem

    Empty Pleasures and Desperate Measures since 1994

  • Moderator
  • Joined: 14 Feb 2011
  • United-Kingdom
  • Contribution Award [D&D, General Chat]
    Most Knowledgeable [Vehicles] 2013
    Best Debater 2013, 2012, 2011

#122

Posted 11 June 2014 - 06:46 AM

Aren't very high as in there are millions of citizens who legally own guns, yet only a hundred or so people have committed mass shootings within even the past ten years. 
 
Cigarettes kill more people than mass shootings do. I wouldn't doubt more people die from choking or peanut allergies a year than from mass shootings. It is no where near as threatening as it's made to be

What you don't understand is that this point is largely moot. It's fallacious to compare the numbers of mass shooting incidents with overall shooting incidents or other death statistics because, like comparing number of people killed in terrorism, mass shootings have a significant impact outside the basic death toll. It's hard to dispute they are significantly more prevalent in the US than elsewhere in the developed world, and given they have been increasing in frequency over the last two decades I find it hard to categorise any attempt to claim this is just some significant statistical anomaly as pure denialism.

I mean military MRAPS... really? That's a little overkill. hah


Why? Given that there have been several incidents involving survivalist communes, raids conducted by the ATF and FBI and the discovery of anti-tank rockets and substantial quantities of high explosives, I think law enforcement having MRAPs is probably quite a sensible idea. It's also worth pointing out that the reason lots of them are being acquired by law enforcement is primarily because they're cheap- the US Army has a significant surplus post Iraq and have been tasked with getting rid of them.

Law enforcement getting hand-me-downs from the military isnt' exactly uncommon.

Vercetti42
  • Vercetti42

    I have moved to a new account.

  • BUSTED!
  • Joined: 13 May 2013
  • India
  • Best Contributor [Gaming] 2012

#123

Posted 11 June 2014 - 02:53 PM

I dont want to sound heartless but you'd think three rangers being shot in Canada is national tragedy on par with 9/11 judging by all that fanfare.

 

Outlandish maybe, but what if another guy related to Justin Broque started up shooting again today? Where are all the nations officers?

 

I hate it when people say it like this:

 

"Hey, this is nothing like 9/11, no big deal!"

 

"3 deaths are nothing, many have died before"

 

"I can't respect 3 brave people who sacrificed their lives for the nation because only 3 people died!"

 

What if I told you that someone close to you has passed away, how would you feel? Would say "Hey it's only one death, nothing like those shootings"? You have no respect for other's feelings and have no idea how Canadians or anybody else here feels about it. You are really one sad human being.

 

In other words: think before you post or GTFO.


beneloben
  • beneloben

    Player Hater

  • Members
  • Joined: 26 May 2014
  • Canada

#124

Posted 11 June 2014 - 06:11 PM

First of all, I am from the city where this has happened, it is an anomaly. 2nd, this place is not that violent for a city of 130 000 (Moncton proper has 70 000). Anything related to guns is quasi-rare here. Our oh so trigger-happy police? Shot and killed a guy last year, which hasn't happened in oh, 158 YEARS !!!

 

3rd, obtaining a gun is like a car sorta ... After you've passed a background check, you can take a safety course (or not) like taking a drving course ... then you go pass a written test then a practical test (like your beginner's then driving test) And voila, you're issued a licence.

 

I have firearms, the government has no idea what I have, as I don't need to register my hunting rifles sooo, it's not really restrictive, but these simple checks make a huge diference. Imagine if in one country, you can obtain and drive a car simply by being old enough and have the money to buy it. Don't you think there would be a HELL of a lot more traffic accidents? It's kind of how we view guns here, same way, as a matter of public safety, you need a little education and safety course. Opressive? research how many people are shot in Canada, then compare stats (multiply Can stats by 10 or divide US stas by 10) and uhm, you'll see a huge diference.

 

Believe it or not, in our Charter of Rights, our rights to bear arms are very similar to your 2nd amendments but, we somehow don't shoot each other like in the US, so while this is no big deal to the de-sensitized, it's a HUGE deal here.

 

Was kinda neat the last few days, everytime I saw a police car, someone would beep and wave ... the police would wave and beep back :)

  • hyperkane likes this

Moth
  • Moth

    Fiat justitia ruat caelum

  • $outh $ide Hoodz
  • Joined: 16 Feb 2006
  • Canada

#125

Posted 11 June 2014 - 09:44 PM

 


I mean military MRAPS... really? That's a little overkill. hah


Why? Given that there have been several incidents involving survivalist communes, raids conducted by the ATF and FBI and the discovery of anti-tank rockets and substantial quantities of high explosives, I think law enforcement having MRAPs is probably quite a sensible idea. It's also worth pointing out that the reason lots of them are being acquired by law enforcement is primarily because they're cheap- the US Army has a significant surplus post Iraq and have been tasked with getting rid of them.

Law enforcement getting hand-me-downs from the military isnt' exactly uncommon.

 

It's not even the fact that they are cheap. They can literally be free, since the military is getting rid of them for newer and better gear.(Also to appease politicians) 

 

Anyways, it seems the increase of mass shooting also seems to related to the amount of mass media coverage we get now a days. Be it on cable news, twitter, facebook, new websites and blogs or even a gaming forum like GTAForums, we are pretty wired. And we do get to know a lot about these shooters. Most of these shooters are probably doing it to get media coverage. They are pretty much drama queens, armed drama queens. 


GrandMaster Smith
  • GrandMaster Smith

  • Members
  • Joined: 02 Apr 2006
  • None

#126

Posted 12 June 2014 - 09:57 AM

It's not a case of militarising the police, but as you said, in an imperfect world there is simply no alternative.

 

 

 

How could you be so narrow minded about it? Instead of sticking a bandaid over the wound by just locking these people up why not actually address the underlying problem as of why these people are committing these shootings in the first place?

 

Of course there are alternatives to having militarized police strolling the streets breathing down our necks due to a small select few who decide to go on a rampage. You really think they're arming up with mine resistant vehicles, automatic weapons and 20 war years worth of ammunition to protect us? It's for their own protection.. I take it you're oblivious to the recent increase of police brutality? One man kills an officer and the entire country goes on a witchhunt, yet an officer kills an entire innocent family and no one bats an eye and the media stays silent. 


sivispacem
  • sivispacem

    Empty Pleasures and Desperate Measures since 1994

  • Moderator
  • Joined: 14 Feb 2011
  • United-Kingdom
  • Contribution Award [D&D, General Chat]
    Most Knowledgeable [Vehicles] 2013
    Best Debater 2013, 2012, 2011

#127

Posted 12 June 2014 - 10:12 AM

Be cause the "underlying problem" is culturally engrained in US society, and any attempt to change it is usually seen by people of certain persuasions (I.E- yours) as an attempt to undermine the fundamental rights of citizens. You can't have it both ways; you can't call on the government to do more to combat societal issues and then accused the government of trampling on peoples freedoms by trying to enforce cultural change.

US police have regularly carried automatic weapons for the best part of 40 years now, situation depending. In factory the first deployments of officers armed with automatic weapons were in the mid-1960s when the first SWAT units were established. The current arming of police in active shooter situations is merely an extension of that.

Given that law enforcement have also used armoured vehicles for decades now, and that MRAPs are effectively free, can you think of a reasonable argument for denying the police access to them?

Having the bare-faced cheek to call another member "narrow-minded " when you seem so ignorant of history yourself is frankly embarrassing.

GrandMaster Smith
  • GrandMaster Smith

  • Members
  • Joined: 02 Apr 2006
  • None

#128

Posted 12 June 2014 - 12:00 PM

How would you have to undermine fundamental rights to people? The problem lies within the way society is designed, not the rights people have. 

 

 

We're mass prescribing antidepressants to children and teens which the majority of mass shootings have been users of. A pill that makes you feel emotionally numb and actually increases risks of suicide in suicidal people is one of the highest RX'd drugs in the U.S.. Maybe we should stop glorifying violence to where it's socially acceptable to show murder and mutilated corpses in movies and T.V. to where we consider it entertainment. 


sivispacem
  • sivispacem

    Empty Pleasures and Desperate Measures since 1994

  • Moderator
  • Joined: 14 Feb 2011
  • United-Kingdom
  • Contribution Award [D&D, General Chat]
    Most Knowledgeable [Vehicles] 2013
    Best Debater 2013, 2012, 2011

#129

Posted 12 June 2014 - 12:42 PM

Society isn't "designed". It's an organic construct of the members. It's fluid and capable of fundamental change merely from the input of members.

You then go on to imply a causal link between antidepressant use and mass shootings, which is totally unfounded and without any compounding evidence of correlation much less causation. Please show me evidence that the majority of perpetrators of mass shootings are actively taking antidepressants with associated increased suicide risk.

The whole response smacks of false assumptions. People who take antidepressants are generally depressed. Depressed people have a higher instance of suicide or homicides than non-depressed people. Do depressed people who are medicating have a higher instance of suicide or homicide than depressed people who aren't? I don't know but your point us rather moot unless you can prove it.

None of the ills you appear to blame for mass shootings in the US are uniquely experienced by it. Numerous countries have issues with mental health treatment. Many have higher instances of depression- Scandinavia for instance. The same is true of wealth disparity, cultural alienation, violence in popular culture (just look at film and television from South Korea and Japan) and pretty much whatever else you care to name. None of these satisfactorily explain the increased instance in spree killing in the US.

The main defining difference is the enshrinement of firearm ownership and gun culture into the US psyche.
  • beneloben likes this

GrandMaster Smith
  • GrandMaster Smith

  • Members
  • Joined: 02 Apr 2006
  • None

#130

Posted 12 June 2014 - 07:13 PM

You don't think society's been designed? There's a reason there's such a high peasant to elite ratio it's not just coincidence.. Society definitely can be organic but in the U.S. the majority of everything is highly controlled. Media, politics, even trends and popular music. 

 

 

 

 Please show me evidence that the majority of perpetrators of mass shootings are actively taking antidepressants with associated increased suicide risk.

 

http://www.cchrint.o...999-to-2013.pdf

 

The majority of shootings are done by people on SSRI's. I'm not saying they're the only thing contributing to mass shootings but it wouldn't be a bad idea to not hand these things out like candy to every 14 year old who's girlfriend broke up with them. It'd atleast be a start in the right direction.

 

The whole response smacks of false assumptions. People who take antidepressants are generally depressed. Depressed people have a higher instance of suicide or homicides than non-depressed people. Do depressed people who are medicating have a higher instance of suicide or homicide than depressed people who aren't? I don't know but your point us rather moot unless you can prove it.

 

 

One of the warnings from the drug makers themselves is that antidepressants can increase risk of suicide. People have a harder time trying to get off the drug than the people who suffer from depression unmedicated, I know several people who've gone through the withdrawals and personally knew multiple people who killed themselves while on antidepressants. They're not just a magic drug that fixes all your problems like commercials like to portray.. 

 

Not to mention antidepressants are just a cover up which numbs emotions, it's never going to actually solve the root problems in their lives of why they're actually depressed. 


sivispacem
  • sivispacem

    Empty Pleasures and Desperate Measures since 1994

  • Moderator
  • Joined: 14 Feb 2011
  • United-Kingdom
  • Contribution Award [D&D, General Chat]
    Most Knowledgeable [Vehicles] 2013
    Best Debater 2013, 2012, 2011

#131

Posted 12 June 2014 - 07:47 PM

http://www.cchrint.o...999-to-2013.pdf
 
The majority of shootings are done by people on SSRI's.

Except your source doesn't demonstrate that the majority of shootings are done by people on medication of any kind. It takes a relatively small sample group, largely composed of single-casualty shootings, which you've apparently interpreted as proof of an argument that it doesn't actually prove. If we pick a handful of the largest mass-casualty shootings from the last 30 years of US history- Long Island Railroad, 101 California Street, Aurora, Edgewater, Lockheed Martin, IHOP (the perpetrator was a paranoid schizophrenic who had stopped medicating some weeks before), Virginia Tech, Fort Hood...none of the perpetrators were on SSRI's or other medication of that type.

One of the warnings from the drug makers themselves is that antidepressants can increase risk of suicide.

Which I'm not disagreeing with, but the claim that they can be directly attributed to mass shootings is pure conjecture.

GrandMaster Smith
  • GrandMaster Smith

  • Members
  • Joined: 02 Apr 2006
  • None

#132

Posted 12 June 2014 - 07:53 PM Edited by GrandMaster Smith, 12 June 2014 - 07:58 PM.

Except your source doesn't demonstrate that the majority of shootings are done by people on medication of any kind.

 

 
What, did you read it? How does it not demonstrate that?

SHOOTING INCIDENTS 1999-2013 
 
TOTALS # of Shootings # Killed # Wounded 
 (incl. perpetrator) 
 
On or withdrawing from psychiatric drugs: 33; 127; 126 
 
Suspected psychiatric drug use: 16; 154; 127 
 
No published psychiatric drug use: 26; 166; 104 
 
TOTALS OF ALL SHOOTINGS: 75; 447; 357 
 
 
SHOOTING INCIDENTS WHERE PERPETRATOR WAS KNOWN TO BE ON OR 
WITHDRAWING FROM PSYCHIATRIC DRUGS: 
 
April 16, 1999: Notus, ID – Shawn Cooper – Antidepressant and Ritalin. 0 Dead, 1 Wounded. 
 
April 20, 1999: Columbine, CO – Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold – Harris was taking Luvox. 
Klebold's medical records were sealed. 15 Dead (including perps), 26 Wounded. 
 
May 20, 1999: Conyers, GA – T. J. Solomon – Ritalin and treated for depression. 0 Dead, 6 
Wounded. 
 
August 10, 1999: Los Angeles, CA – Buford Furrows – Was taking prescribed psychiatric drugs for 
depression and was in a mental hospital before the shootings. 1 Dead, 5 
Wounded. 
 
Dec. 26, 2000: Wakefield, MA – Michael McDermott – Paxil, Prozac & Desyrel (Trazodone). 
Long psychiatric history. 7 Dead, 0 Wounded. 
 
Jan 10, 2001: Oxnard, CA – Richard Lopez – Prozac, Paxil and “drugs that helped him go to 
sleep.” 1 Dead (the perp), 0 Wounded. 
 
Mar. 7, 2001: Williamsport, PA – Elizabeth Bush – Prozac. 0 Dead, 1 Wounded. 
 
Mar. 22, 2001: El Cajon, CA – Jason Hoffman – Celexa and Effexor and had been seeing a 
psychiatrist. 0 Dead, 5 Wounded. 
 
July 8, 2003: North Meridian, FL – Doug Williams – Celexa and Zoloft. 6 Dead (including 
perp), 9 Wounded. 
 
Nov. 28, 2001: Charleston, WV – Christopher Pittman – Paxil and Zoloft. 2 Dead, 0 Wounded. 
 
Feb. 2004: Greenbush, NY – Jon Romano – Xanax and had previously spent time in a 
psychiatry care facility. 0 Dead, 1 Wounded. 
 
Mar 21, 2005: Red Lake, MN – Jeff Weise – Prozac. 10 Dead (including perp), 7 Wounded.  
Aug. 30, 2006: Hillsborough, NC – Alvaro Rafael Castillo – On drugs for depression. 1 Dead, 2 
Wounded. 
 
Oct. 2, 2006: Nickel Mines, PA – Charles Carl Roberts – Antidepressants. 6 Dead (including 
perp), 5 Wounded. 
 
Oct. 10, 2007: Cleveland, OH – Asa Coon – Trazodone. 1 Dead (the perp). 4 Wounded. 
 
Dec. 5, 2007: Omaha, NE – Robert Hawkins – On Ritalin and Zoloft since 5 years old. Valium 
in his system at time of shooting. 9 Dead (including perp), 5 Wounded. 
 
Feb. 14, 2008: DeKalb, IL – Steven Kazmierczak – Prozac, Xanax and Ambien. 6 Dead 
(including perp), 21 Wounded. 
 
Aug. 14, 2008: Little Rock, AR – Timothy Johnson – Effexor. 2 Dead (including perp), 0 
Wounded. 
 
Jan. 11, 2009: Concord, CA – Jason Montes – Prozac. 2 Dead (including perp), 0 Wounded. 
 
Mar. 29, 2009: Carthage, NC – Robert Stewart – Lexapro, Ambien, and Xanax. 8 Dead, 3 
Wounded. 
 
Apr. 17, 2009: Middletown, MD – Christopher Wood – Antidepressants Bupropion (Wellbutrin), 
Amitriptyline (Elavil), Nortriptyline (Pamelor) and the antianxiety drugs Zolpidem 
(Ambien) and Alprazolam (Xanax). 5 Dead (including perp), 0 Wounded. 
 
Apr. 26, 2009: Granberry Crossing, AL – Fred B. Davis – Geodon. 1 Dead, 1 Wounded. 
 
May 3, 2009: Lakeland, FL – Troy Bellar – Tegretol. 4 Dead (including perp), 0 Wounded. 
 
Oct. 26, 2009: Newport, ME – Perley Goodrich Jr. – Trazodone. 1 Dead, 1 Wounded. 
 
Feb. 5, 2010: Huntsville, AL – Hammad Memon – History of being treated for ADHD and 
depression. On antidepressant Zoloft and “other drugs for the conditions.” 1 
Dead, 0 Wounded. 
 
July 7, 2011: Grand Rapids, MI – Roderick Dantzler – Reported to have stopped medication for 
“Bipolar” before the shooting. 8 Dead (including perp), 2 Wounded. 
 
Sept. 6, 2011: Carson City, NV – Eduardo Sencion – Had been taking psychiatric drugs since his 
teens and several of the drugs were switched just months before the shooting. 5 
Dead (including perp), 7 Wounded. 
 
Sept. 21, 2011: Myrtle Beach, SC – Christian Helms – Drugs for ADD and depression. 0 Dead, 1 
Wounded. 
 
Oct. 12, 2011: Beach, CA – Scott Evans Dekraai – Trazodone and Topamax. 8 Dead, 1 
Wounded. 
 Apr. 6, 2012: Tulsa, OK – Jake England – Taking medication for depression. 3 Dead, 2 
Wounded. 
 
Sept. 8, 2012: Jackson County, MI – Michael Hamilton – His dosage of Adderall was doubled 
just months before shooting. 1 Dead, 0 Wounded. 
 
Jan. 15, 2013: St. Louis, MO – Sean Johnson – Drugs for mental illness. 0 Dead, 2 Wounded 
(including perp). 
 
Sept. 17, 2013: Washington, DC – Aaron Alexis – Trazodone. 13 Dead (including perp), 8 
Wounded. 

 

 

 

2013 had 13 mass shootings I believe. Between 2000 and 2008 it was at an average of 5 mass shootings per year. As I said before, mass shootings really are not a huge threat when the casualties are below 1,000 for the entire past decade when on the other hand we have cigarettes killing 500,000 people every single year.


sivispacem
  • sivispacem

    Empty Pleasures and Desperate Measures since 1994

  • Moderator
  • Joined: 14 Feb 2011
  • United-Kingdom
  • Contribution Award [D&D, General Chat]
    Most Knowledgeable [Vehicles] 2013
    Best Debater 2013, 2012, 2011

#133

Posted 12 June 2014 - 08:30 PM

What, did you read it? How does it not demonstrate that?

Of course I read it. But the issue with that report is the lack of context. It includes single fatality and single injury shooting incidents and multiple casualty but zero fatality shooting incidents, whereas all the statistic I've provides are for multiple fatality shootings. Therefore it is an apples to oranges comparison that doesn't demonstrate even a proper correlation let alone a causal link. Put simply, it implies that it is some kind of "full" collection of shooting incidents when it appears to be nothing more than a largely random selection designed to demonstrate a correlation where none exists. I mean, the fact they include figures from Columbine when only one shooter had been prescribed medication, and many of the others merely list the shooter as "reportedly" taking a vague family of drugs and then assume that they were. It's pretty questionable.

And yet again, you totally miss the point by comparing mass shootings to other leading causes of death. As I've already pointed out, like terrorism the simple casualty figures don't even begin to tell the full story of the societal impact of these events.

NexusLordNova
  • NexusLordNova

    Assassin

  • Members
  • Joined: 05 May 2013
  • Canada

#134

Posted 14 June 2014 - 02:25 AM

holy crap, there was a thread on here about this? Wow, I'm from Dieppe ... was stuck on Mtn Rd when the drama happened there, tweeted a bunch of pics afterwards (@beneloben). Being in this area was nutz, social media was crazy.

 

But it's over now, Moncton will heal, it's stronger than that :) The televised funeral ended a few hours ago. Estimates put the number of officers, from all over North America, at approx. 8 to 9 thousand, here for the service.

wow, small world I live in Dieppe as well. This s**t went down close to the area of the city where I grew up.





1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users