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Three RCMP Officers Shot and Killed in Moncton, Canada

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GrandMaster Smith
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#91

Posted 06 June 2014 - 08:03 AM

 

No they're just being covered more. Mass shootings have actually been dropping rapidly over the past 2 decades. Something like 50-75% drop in gun murders since the 90's. And for the death rates by guns trhe majority of them are suicides.


It's not really fair to say that mass shootings have been "dropping rapidly" because I'm fairly sure they haven't. There's actually been a slight average yearly increase in the number of both deaths and injuries attributed to mass shootings in the period 2002-2012, over 1992-2002. Of course it's very fluid from year to year- some years (like 2012) almost 100 dead, some (2002) none. And of course the graph doesn't represent the actual numbers of mass shootings, but the fatalities and injuries arising from them.



But yeah, when looked at from a fatality and injury perspective, "less mass shootings" = false.

http://www.motherjon...jones-full-data

-Edit

Actually, looking at their full data set, there are 35 mass shootings recorded between 2003 and 2013, and 18 between 1992 and 2002. So almost double the number in the last 10 years compared to the preceding ten. And there was only 12 in the 10 years preceding that; so it's increased decaded on decade. Therefore, "less mass shootings" is false on both counts.


-------------------


BBC seem to be doing a running commentary on it. Can't pay much attention as I'm getting ready to leave for work. Sure I'll have more to say later.

 

 

 

 

According to this study gun homicide has dropped 49% since 1993 with the ~50,000,000 population increase

 

 

http://www.pewsocial...nal_05-2013.pdf


sivispacem
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#92

Posted 06 June 2014 - 08:42 AM

Which is fair enough, and true as far as I can make out, but you didn't just claim gun homicide had decreased, but that the numbers of mass shooting incidents had:

"Mass shootings have actually been dropping rapidly over the last two decades"

When in actuality they've almost tripled in frequency in the ten years 1982-1992 compared to 2002-2012; if you compare 1983-1993 with 2003-2013 it's more than double. 1993 and both 2012 and 2013 have been really bad years for mass shootings.

I fully accept that less people die as a result of gun violence in the US compared to 20 years ago, but mass shootings are statistically both more prevalent and generally incur a far greater number of casualties than back then.

NexusLordNova
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#93

Posted 06 June 2014 - 10:10 AM

I'm glad it's over now, I stayed in my house all day yesterday.


GrandMaster Smith
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#94

Posted 06 June 2014 - 04:15 PM

Which is fair enough, and true as far as I can make out, but you didn't just claim gun homicide had decreased, but that the numbers of mass shooting incidents had:

"Mass shootings have actually been dropping rapidly over the last two decades"

When in actuality they've almost tripled in frequency in the ten years 1982-1992 compared to 2002-2012; if you compare 1983-1993 with 2003-2013 it's more than double. 1993 and both 2012 and 2013 have been really bad years for mass shootings.

I fully accept that less people die as a result of gun violence in the US compared to 20 years ago, but mass shootings are statistically both more prevalent and generally incur a far greater number of casualties than back then.

 

 

Thankfully mass shootings were never really much of a problem in the first place. Sensationalist news really like to milk them out for all their worth which in turn makes the public think there's a mass murderer around every corner but in reality the statistics show they're not really much of a threat.

 

The fact that gun deaths are down nearly 50% since the early 90's and majority of those gun deaths are from suicide shows people really aren't as bloodthirsty as they're made out to be. People overall have actually been becoming more and more peaceful as violent crimes in general have been dropping altogether. Main news networks don't always portray a very accurate representation of what's going on, they play the same story about a killer for 20 days straight while throwing a 5 minute clip somewhere in between all that about one good thing thats happened. It's crazy how much television can so drastically distort people's perceptions of reality.


sivispacem
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#95

Posted 06 June 2014 - 05:00 PM

Again, I agree with respect of the way the media present gun violence- particularly mass shootings- in the US. But I find it difficult to stomach how someone could dismiss a twofold increase in a particular kind of violent criminal activity; regardless of how low the original baseline figure and irrespective of wider trends- as not a minor issue. As far as I'm concerned, that's a bit like dismissing a twofold increase in sex trafficking as overall rape conviction rates have dropped.

Ryan
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#96

Posted 06 June 2014 - 05:53 PM

Glad they finally caught the f*cker. He's expected to be formally charged today with a whole slew of charges, including at least three counts of first degree murder.

 

This whole ordeal goes down in Canadian history as the worst attack on any Canadian police agency and the largest scale manhunt by a police agency. 

 

The three fallen officers:

 

Constable Douglas Larche

  • From Saint John, New Brunswick 
  • 40 years old
  • 12 years with the RCMP

Constable David Ross

  • From Victoriaville, Quebec
  • 32 years old
  • 7 years with the RCMP
  • Leaves behind his wife and 19 month old newborn with another expected

Constable Fabrice Gevaudan

  • Born in France
  • 45 years old
  • 6 years with the RCMP

 

The two wounded officers:

 

Constable Eric Dubois

Constable Marie Goguen


CallTheCoroner
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#97

Posted 06 June 2014 - 06:20 PM

 

I'm surprised at just how anti-climactic this ended. I would have thought they'd execute the guy on sight after he killed three of their own. The guy's a pussy too, he should have killed himself but instead this turned out to be nothing more than cop hunting for him as opposed to going out with a bang. I hope he has a long, suffering, cruel death awaiting him. Condolences to the families of the victims.

rcmp can be a little more professional than american cops

 

Umm do you not remember the Boston Marathon bombers manhunt? They didn't kill him either. This was almost exactly like that manhunt.


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#98

Posted 06 June 2014 - 06:23 PM

I was scared some Christopher Dorner sh*t was going to go down. As in a month long manhunt ending in a stand off that ends suspiciously.

universetwisters
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#99

Posted 06 June 2014 - 10:30 PM

I read that he had a court apperance today, along with a sketch of him being made in the courtroom (below). Out of curiosity, do courts in Canada really move this quick? I know it takes a while in America for there to be a case after a crime.

 

justin-bourque-is-shown-in-this-artists-


Nipperkins
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#100

Posted 06 June 2014 - 10:37 PM Edited by Nipperkins, 06 June 2014 - 11:01 PM.

Didn't you read the Ryan's post three posts above you? Right now he's only being formally charged. 


Ryan
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#101

Posted 06 June 2014 - 11:00 PM

His court appearance today was to simply be formally charged with with three counts of first degree murder for killing the three police officers and two counts of attempted murder for wounding the two other police officers. The prosecution requested more time to review the case so no plea was entered. He'll be back in court on July 3.

 

Each count of first degree murder automatically holds a lifetime sentence (killing a peace officer in Canada is automatically a first degree charge whether it was planned or not). Attempted murder ranges from a five year sentence to a lifetime sentence. Given that he used a firearm against peace officers, that will likely be an additional two lifetime sentences. By the time the trial is over he'll probably end up with five lifetime sentences. 


universetwisters
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#102

Posted 06 June 2014 - 11:04 PM

His court appearance today was to simply be formally charged with with three counts of first degree murder for killing the three police officers and two counts of attempted murder for wounding the two other police officers. The prosecution requested more time to review the case so no plea was entered. He'll be back in court on July 3. 

 

July 3rd? That isn't bad. I had to wait like three months just for my court hearing.


PhilosophicalZebra
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#103

Posted 06 June 2014 - 11:15 PM Edited by PhilosophicalZebra, 06 June 2014 - 11:20 PM.

Out of curiosity, do courts in Canada really move this quick? I know it takes a while in America for there to be a case after a crime.

It depends on what kind of situation it is. My dad scheduled a hearing to contest a traffic ticket, and he had to wait seven months. This is in Montreal.

Ryan
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#104

Posted 06 June 2014 - 11:21 PM

 

His court appearance today was to simply be formally charged with with three counts of first degree murder for killing the three police officers and two counts of attempted murder for wounding the two other police officers. The prosecution requested more time to review the case so no plea was entered. He'll be back in court on July 3. 

 

July 3rd? That isn't bad. I had to wait like three months just for my court hearing.

 

If he pleads guilty on July 3rd, then everything is basically done and they'll ship him off to prison. If he pleads not-guilty, then there will be a wait of several month for the trial itself.  


chrisscorsese88
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#105

Posted 07 June 2014 - 05:36 PM Edited by chrisscorsese88, 07 June 2014 - 05:37 PM.

Well thank God he finally got caught before any more innocent people/police officers lost their lives! I also don't see a reason why there would have to be a several-month wait until a retrial just because he pleads "not-guilty", it's stupid, it's obvious he did it!


Ryan
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#106

Posted 07 June 2014 - 08:42 PM

Interesting article on how they were able to catch the suspect -  Surveillance aircraft played key role capturing Bourque. I've actually worked with this aircraft too to investigate certain vessels that certain government agencies wish to know more about for the sake of marine security. 

 

 

The 30-hour search for Justin Bourque came to a sudden end Thursday night soon after the arrival of an aircraft rigged with sophisticated surveillance equipment normally deployed to patrol the Canadian coast.
 
As police on the ground struggled to track the man alleged to have gunned down three Mounties, behind the scenes officials at Transport Canada told the RCMP they had a powerful asset in reserve. It turned out to be key to capturing the accused killer.
 
The aircraft, a DASH-8, is the workhorse at the centre of the National Aerial Surveillance Program. What makes it special is its sensitive camera, the MX-15, which is used to monitor shipping lanes and detect environmental spills. With an armed suspect on the loose, and with three officers dead and two others wounded, getting close to him on the ground was a risky proposition. Mr. Bourque had been spotted a few times early Thursday, but then seemed to slip away into a wooded section of North Moncton.
 
Shortly after 1:30 p.m., the chief of intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance at Transport Canada, Louis Armstrong, advised his team that the DASH-8 had been redirected to Moncton and was set to land within 35 minutes. It would be at the RCMP’s disposal.
 
“I just spoke to Cst. Mike Oliver – J Division, to explain the capabilities of the Dash 8, mainly the MX-15,” Mr. Armstrong wrote in an e-mail.
 
The MX-15 is described as ideal for medium-altitude covert intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance missions. It can offer real-time imaging that shows a landscape in shades of grey. Anything with a heat signature, such as a human being, registers as a bright white. It’s considered among the most sophisticated aerial imaging tools in the country.
 
With bad weather threatening, authorities decided to speed up their planned, midnight takeoff. At 11:24 p.m., Brad Mundle of Transport Canada sent an e-mail to colleagues, many of them part of the Marine Aerial Reconnaissance Team (MART).
 
“Transport 950 is airborne and over tasking area,” Mr. Mundle wrote.
 
At 11:58 p.m., he updated the team again. The plane had spotted something: a heat signature coming from a wooded area. It’s not clear whether the aircraft was directed to that spot beforehand based on intelligence developed on the ground. The RCMP would not comment on the specifics of the investigation, but did say that a citizen had provided information Thursday that contributed to the suspect’s capture.
 
Mr. Mundle was watching it all from the aircraft hangar via live video. The MX-15 has the ability to blend infrared and electro-optic, night-vision images, making for a highly detailed, stable picture of what’s happening on the ground, even in darkness.
 
“We’re apparently streaming a video that has everyone excited,” Mr. Mundle wrote. “We are onto someone hiding in the bush.”
 
Up in the air, an RCMP officer was in the cockpit with the Transport Canada pilot, passing information to police on the ground by radio. Meanwhile, RCMP commanders in the situation centre watched images relayed by satellite. What they could see, according to a source who was not authorized to speak on the record, was the shape of a man crouched behind a tree. Once the heat signature was spotted, the force’s Emergency Response Team on the ground was ordered to move.
 
Less than 10 minutes later, the heavily armed RCMP team descended on the yard of a home on Mecca Drive belonging to the family of Michelle Thibodeau. The images relayed from the DASH-8 showed a circle of white figures with weapons raised creeping slowly toward the lone figure in the trees, encircling him. Finally, the suspect could be seen raising his arms and dropping to the ground.
 
At 12:23 am, Brad Mundle updated his colleagues again.
 
“Got him, confirmed,” he wrote.
 
“Excellent!” replied director of flight operations Steve Buckles.

 

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Ryan
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#107

Posted 10 June 2014 - 05:45 PM

Canada has come to a stand still today as the nation honors the three fallen RCMP officers with nearly 10,000 police officers from all of Canada in attendance for the regimental funeral. 

 

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johnny_zoo
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#108

Posted 10 June 2014 - 06:18 PM

I dont want to sound heartless but you'd think three rangers being shot in Canada is national tragedy on par with 9/11 judging by all that fanfare.

 

Outlandish maybe, but what if another guy related to Justin Broque started up shooting again today? Where are all the nations officers?


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#109

Posted 10 June 2014 - 06:25 PM

Word of advice, if you have to start of a sentence with "I don't want to sound heartless", don't finish it. As for the second part, don't you think that Canada has more than 10.000 officers in its police force? 

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#110

Posted 10 June 2014 - 07:47 PM

I dont want to sound heartless but you'd think three rangers being shot in Canada is national tragedy on par with 9/11 judging by all that fanfare.

 

Outlandish maybe, but what if another guy related to Justin Broque started up shooting again today? Where are all the nations officers?

One of the main things about the RCMP is that there is a huge sense of camaraderie, so they will come from all parts of the country to remember their fallen. The same happened when they had the funerals in Edmonton for the four RCMP officers who were killed in Mayerthorpe in 2005.

 

It is a tragedy for the nation, because something like this in Canada is incredibly rare, especially given that it happened in small-town New Brunswick (and not even 90 minutes from where I grew up).


GrandMaster Smith
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#111

Posted 10 June 2014 - 07:59 PM

Again, I agree with respect of the way the media present gun violence- particularly mass shootings- in the US. But I find it difficult to stomach how someone could dismiss a twofold increase in a particular kind of violent criminal activity; regardless of how low the original baseline figure and irrespective of wider trends- as not a minor issue. As far as I'm concerned, that's a bit like dismissing a twofold increase in sex trafficking as overall rape conviction rates have dropped.

 

Going from 2 count to 4 count is still a twofold increase.. Mass shooting numbers weren't ever very high to begin with, though it is still something of concern the fact still remains gun deaths in absolute total have dramatically dropped. Violent crimes in general have all dropped as well, yet more are in jail and the police continue to become more militarized with machine guns and MRAPs. 

 

 

I dont want to sound heartless but you'd think three rangers being shot in Canada is national tragedy on par with 9/11 judging by all that fanfare.

 

Outlandish maybe, but what if another guy related to Justin Broque started up shooting again today? Where are all the nations officers?

 

It's just showing everybody if you ever kill a cop expect a witch hunt after you.


Ryan
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#112

Posted 10 June 2014 - 09:20 PM

I dont want to sound heartless but you'd think three rangers being shot in Canada is national tragedy on par with 9/11 judging by all that fanfare.

Respectfully, go f*ck yourself. This was the single worst attack on the RCMP in their 100+ year history. It's certainly no 9/11 nor have I ever compared it to it, but the RCMP are Canada's national police force therefore the killing of three officers who put their lives on the line day in and day out to protect Canadians and Canadian society and who without so much as a second thought rushed to the scene of a heavily armed gunman shooting at their fellow officers is a national tragedy. I know it means nothing to you since you're not Canadian but have some f*cking respect for the sacrifices those husbands, fathers, and officers made.
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johnny_zoo
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#113

Posted 10 June 2014 - 09:32 PM

 

I dont want to sound heartless but you'd think three rangers being shot in Canada is national tragedy on par with 9/11 judging by all that fanfare.

Respectfully, go f*ck yourself. This was the single worst attack on the RCMP in their 100+ year history. It's certainly no 9/11 nor have I ever compared it to it, but the RCMP are Canada's national police force therefore the killing of three officers who put their lives on the line day in and day out to protect Canadians and Canadian society and who without so much as a second thought rushed to the scene of a heavily armed gunman shooting at their fellow officers is a national tragedy. I know it means nothing to you since you're not Canadian but have some f*cking respect for the sacrifices those husbands, fathers, and officers made.

 

 

Look I wasn't trying to be disrespectful. I do feel bad for the families that no longer have their fathers coming home to them.
 

 

I dont want to sound heartless but you'd think three rangers being shot in Canada is national tragedy on par with 9/11 judging by all that fanfare.

 

Outlandish maybe, but what if another guy related to Justin Broque started up shooting again today? Where are all the nations officers?

One of the main things about the RCMP is that there is a huge sense of camaraderie, so they will come from all parts of the country to remember their fallen. The same happened when they had the funerals in Edmonton for the four RCMP officers who were killed in Mayerthorpe in 2005.

 

It is a tragedy for the nation, because something like this in Canada is incredibly rare, especially given that it happened in small-town New Brunswick (and not even 90 minutes from where I grew up).

 

 

OK that makes sense. Its hardly ever happened so when it does its a serious event. I get it.


sivispacem
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#114

Posted 10 June 2014 - 09:32 PM

Going from 2 count to 4 count is still a twofold increase.. Mass shooting numbers weren't ever very high to begin with, though it is still something of concern the fact still remains gun deaths in absolute total have dramatically dropped.


"Weren't very high" is highly subjective, especially when you take into account that, compared to other nations with compatible GDP per capita, similar positions on various indices, they are abnormally frequent. I feel you ate trivialising something purely because it isn't alarmingly frequent, when it's still frequent enough to be alarmming, and that you're rather missing the point by doing so. The sample size is too large for it to be dismissed asca statistical anomaly.

GrandMaster Smith
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#115

Posted 10 June 2014 - 09:55 PM

 

Going from 2 count to 4 count is still a twofold increase.. Mass shooting numbers weren't ever very high to begin with, though it is still something of concern the fact still remains gun deaths in absolute total have dramatically dropped.


"Weren't very high" is highly subjective, especially when you take into account that, compared to other nations with compatible GDP per capita, similar positions on various indices, they are abnormally frequent. I feel you ate trivialising something purely because it isn't alarmingly frequent, when it's still frequent enough to be alarmming, and that you're rather missing the point by doing so. The sample size is too large for it to be dismissed asca statistical anomaly.

 

 

Aren't very high as in there are millions of citizens who legally own guns, yet only a hundred or so people have committed mass shootings within even the past ten years. 

 

Cigarettes kill more people than mass shootings do. I wouldn't doubt more people die from choking or peanut allergies a year than from mass shootings. It is no where near as threatening as it's made to be, and by no means a justification for strapping police officers with automatic weapons and mine resistant military vehicles. 


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#116

Posted 10 June 2014 - 11:11 PM

It is no where near as threatening as it's made to be, and by no means a justification for strapping police officers with automatic weapons and mine resistant military vehicles. 


I'd love to see you say that when in an environment where heavily armed individuals are going around shooting innocent civilians all around you and see if you share the same opinion that police shouldn't be armed with assualt rifles and tactical armoured vehicles.
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beneloben
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#117

Posted 10 June 2014 - 11:24 PM

holy crap, there was a thread on here about this? Wow, I'm from Dieppe ... was stuck on Mtn Rd when the drama happened there, tweeted a bunch of pics afterwards (@beneloben). Being in this area was nutz, social media was crazy.

 

But it's over now, Moncton will heal, it's stronger than that :) The televised funeral ended a few hours ago. Estimates put the number of officers, from all over North America, at approx. 8 to 9 thousand, here for the service.


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#118

Posted 10 June 2014 - 11:28 PM

 

It is no where near as threatening as it's made to be, and by no means a justification for strapping police officers with automatic weapons and mine resistant military vehicles. 


I'd love to see you say that when in an environment where heavily armed individuals are going around shooting innocent civilians all around you and see if you share the same opinion that police shouldn't be armed with assualt rifles and tactical armoured vehicles.

 

 

Oh well yeah sure, in a perfect world and all I'm sure it'd be great.. but trusting the same government who commits war crimes and feels the need to spy on it's own citizens without warrant with such heavy artillery aimed to be used against it's own people is a little unsettling. Not to forget DHS stockpiling 20 years worth of ammunition recently as if they're preparing for war.

 

I mean military MRAPS... really? That's a little overkill. hah


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#119

Posted 11 June 2014 - 12:03 AM

Ah oui, je suis francais aussi ... pis je parle le chiac LOL
 
Just read the other posts, nice to see others from my area in here :) ... On a side note, one of the killer's friends was arrested today for apparently threatening officers ... they are both very pro-gun, anti-gov, anti-police


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#120

Posted 11 June 2014 - 12:31 AM

Making remarks of mass shootings not being as 'bad' as terrorist attacks is completely without point and makes you look ridiculous, I do n't see what point you're trying to make with that. On a similar note I don't see what relevance how armed the police are has to do with shootings.





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