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Government conspiracy related missions aren't popular anymore?

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Grievous
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#1

Posted 17 May 2014 - 02:19 PM

I was kind of surprised to see V's more heavy approach with FIB, IAA and mercenary affairs into the plot to be a source of much disdain to fans of the series. It's true that as a result three out of the six heists in the game are tasked by FIB agents, and of the remaining three only two was out of the protagonists' own intentions. But, at least with past games, weren't missions given by government agents the more popular/interesting/fun ones?

I was under the impression that folks considered Mike Torrenno's missions as some of the most memorable ones in San Andreas, coupled with The Truth's involvement.
And that later on the United Front Liberty Paper contact was a natural spiritual successor in a more grounded approach of the Grand Theft Auto universe, if not also acting as a convenient plot device for Niko's search of the special someone.

They were fun missions in their own right, making use of interesting game mechanics at times, and the mission giver themselves were well written and acted characters, as well as making for a nice change compare to the usual gangster/mob boss/drug kingpin and the likes.

The federal bureau's role in Red Dead Redemption was source of much praise too as I recall.

So what happened with V? was the government conspiracy involvement simply too much perhaps?

I will maintain that missions relating to the IAA and Merryweather were better executed than the random fights against the Ballas or any other random gang. And the three heist the FIB agents forces the protagonists to perform? probably my favorites compared to the other heists.

Considering the amount of negative reception the government conspiracy involvement was in V, at least we can probably be sure it won't crop up again as much in future installments.
Which, to me currently at least, I find the negative reception to be somewhat of a shame.


Bonus short topic: Agent Dave Norton was an interesting if shamefully under-utilized character, no? Especially compared to Steve Haines or Devin Weston.

Staten
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#2

Posted 17 May 2014 - 02:21 PM

I think it's because of the polo shirts.  Kid these days don't like polo shirts.

 

It certainly can't be the quality of the missions, which were the best in the series.  I mean, Three's Company? The Bureau Raid?  The Paleto Score?  These are great missions.


Niko Vercetti 112
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#3

Posted 17 May 2014 - 03:13 PM

I think it's because of the polo shirts.  Kid these days don't like polo shirts.

Polo shirts aren't cool anymore? Hell and I thought everybody in real life thought I was weird because of my barbie doll fetish. At least I can be open about it now.

But in all seriousness I wasn't a big fan of the government conspiracy thing because it took up most of the plot. I mean in both SA and IV the government characters were important in the way of progressing the plot, but at least 50% of the missions weren't dedicated to saving American from their evil government. It was just a bit of overkill in V.

Maybe if they somehow worked the fact that the real FBI and CIA are pretty much the puppet masters in the drug trade I could have accepted it better. But it feels more like a season of Homeland than GTA.
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Grievous
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#4

Posted 17 May 2014 - 03:21 PM

Maybe if they somehow worked the fact that the real FBI and CIA are pretty much the puppet masters in the drug trade I could have accepted it better.


Yes, sadly it was only suggested by Mike Torreno, and vaguely alluded to in Vice City Stories.

Now that I think about it, the NSA surveillance program hasn't had its share of parody/satire in V yet.
Hmmm ...

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#5

Posted 17 May 2014 - 03:21 PM

They would be if Nervous Ron was relevant for more than 3 or so missions.

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Grievous
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#6

Posted 17 May 2014 - 03:22 PM

Interestingly I've never made the connection with Ron and The Truth, yet their dress attire was a dead giveaway!

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#7

Posted 17 May 2014 - 03:28 PM

It's because it goes on for too long and the protagonists are made completely powerless. Also they only stand to lose and have nothing to gain by working with them.

Niko doesn't want to kill the contact because he's actively helping him in numerous ways. Considering that the game can end with them just killing Steve the question has to be asked, why didn't they do that to start with?
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Grievous
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#8

Posted 17 May 2014 - 05:30 PM

Wealth equals power and inspires confidence I guess. They've decided to 'kill them all' after their successful Union Depository heist. Prior to that they never had to kind of money or success to back up their motivation.

Steven Haines only began showing desires to kill off Michael/Trevor until near the end of the plot; before that, by blackmailing the trio into working together Haines didn't initially sent them into a dead end, as by introducing them to Devin Weston they made the trio happy into the prospect of earning money, from stealing cars to putting Michael into movie productions.

Most of the drama that impeded on the protagonist's progress are due to their own fault; North Yankton, Trevor's theft on Merryweather property, Michael indirectly causing the death of Molly, Trevor angering the Triads, Franklin who keeps saving his friend despite all the trouble he falls into and so on.

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#9

Posted 17 May 2014 - 09:53 PM

I think its because with the length (or lack) of missions we have, they take up most of the game. Looking back to the trailers and GAme Informer Interview, Many would've never guessed 1.) the lack of missions. 2.) The plot would consist of being bitch boy to the FIB and 3.) The amount of money you DON'T earn in your heists.


Official General
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#10

Posted 18 May 2014 - 02:47 AM Edited by Official General, 19 May 2014 - 11:41 AM.

@ Grievous
 

I was under the impression that folks considered Mike Torrenno's missions as some of the most memorable ones in San Andreas, coupled with The Truth's involvement. And that later on the United Front Liberty Paper contact was a natural spiritual successor in a more grounded approach of the Grand Theft Auto universe, if not also acting as a convenient plot device for Niko's search of the special someone.

 
You're misinformed or misguided. Mike Toreno's missions were the worst part of San Andrea's story for many people, I don't know too many people that enjoyed them, most people said it was kinda silly, very unrealistic, and boring. I too did not like that part myself. The United Front Liberty Paper stuff in GTA IV, was nothing special and it was not exactly that memorable, I never heard anyone speak about it like it was their favorite part of the game. 
 

The federal bureau's role in Red Dead Redemption was source of much praise too as I recall.

 
Come on how can you compare this to the situation in GTA ? The real-life FIB never even existed in the time period that RDR was set in. A government agent back then was just another name for a special kind of lawman, sherriff, or deputy in the Wild West. 
 

They were fun missions in their own right, making use of interesting game mechanics at times, and the mission giver themselves were well written and acted characters, as well as making for a nice change compare to the usual gangster/mob boss/drug kingpin and the likes.

 
A change is not always for the better, and this case shows. Not everything needs to be changed, sometimes change is for the worst. GTA's popularity is rooted in the fact that it's main themes have always been centered around gangs and organized crime. Changing this formula to make the theme to mostly revolve around corrupt federal and government agents has obviously left a sour taste in the mouth of many GTA fans, and it has clearly been the main cause of disappointment for the main story. Yeah some of the fed/government agent missions in V were fun, but that's not necessarily the point or the be all and end all - it was not the preferred and typical representation of fun in a GTA game for many people. If the FIB/IAA/Merryweather section of the story actually was directly tied to organized crime, it might have been a different story.
 

So what happened with V? was the government conspiracy involvement simply too much perhaps?

 
I definitely thought so, it was way too much that it ruined the main story and feel of it, many times V no longer felt like GTA. Many people expressed the same or similar views on this. On top of that, it was badly written and structured. Before the game finished I just wanted the FIB/IAA/Merryweather stuff to be quickly over with, but to my horror it was the main theme. Rockstar really overdid this part of the game for sure, very much to V's detriment. 
 

I will maintain that missions relating to the IAA and Merryweather were better executed than the random fights against the Ballas or any other random gang. And the three heist the FIB agents forces the protagonists to perform? probably my favorites compared to the other heists.

 
I respect that's your opinion, but I personally would rather traditional GTA fare that involves gangs and organized crime over that federal and government agent bullsh*t any day. GTA needs to go back the essence of what made it great, and it's certainly not not this. 
 

Considering the amount of negative reception the government conspiracy involvement was in V, at least we can probably be sure it won't crop up again as much in future installments. Which, to me currently at least, I find the negative reception to be somewhat of a shame.

 
I f*cking well hope this government-centered stuff in V never crops up in another GTA again. You find the negative reception of it a shame, I see it as a beacon of hope that Rockstar can learn from their mistakes and never make such bullsh*t in a GTA story again.
 
@ NikoVercetti112
 

 
But in all seriousness I wasn't a big fan of the government conspiracy thing because it took up most of the plot. I mean in both SA and IV the government characters were important in the way of progressing the plot, but at least 50% of the missions weren't dedicated to saving American from their evil government. It was just a bit of overkill in V.
 
Maybe if they somehow worked the fact that the real FBI and CIA are pretty much the puppet masters in the drug trade I could have accepted it better. But it feels more like a season of Homeland than GTA.

 
Exactly this :^: 
 
I don't even mind the government conspiracy stuff in GTA, but just not to the point it takes up a majority of the main story and theme. GTA is a crime game generally centered around themes of traditional criminal elements to with organized crime and gangs, not corrupt government agents. SA and IV had this, it played a minimal part in both of the game's stories. 
 
And yeah, V's government agent missions just felt like theme to do with Homeland, the a lot of the gameplay felt like a cross between Splinter Cell and in some cases, COD Modern Warfare. 

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Officer Ronson
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#11

Posted 18 May 2014 - 03:48 AM

What does being in a internal war inbetween corrupted factions in goverment agencies have to do with a f*cking ex-navy,marine,seal whatever you call it that kills unarmed womento save america and fighting russians and ultranationalists?


Grievous
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#12

Posted 18 May 2014 - 01:21 PM

@ Official General

Fair enough. And as noted, "If the FIB/IAA/Merryweather section of the story actually was directly tied to organized crime", indeed, it would have brought over a more satisfying cohesive whole.

It's hard to tell if this isn't just some major set up for the DLC plot. They're bound to be aiming for something 'bigger' to appease fans.

Sometimes I also wonder if the FIB IAA and government mercenaries plot in V wasn't lifted over directly from Rockstar's now seemingly abandoned project "AGENT".
Or maybe it acts a try-out testing routine, I don't know.
 

The federal bureau's role in Red Dead Redemption was source of much praise too as I recall.

 
Come on how can you compare this to the situation in GTA ? The real-life FIB never even existed in the time period that RDR was set in. A government agent back then was just another name for a special kind of lawman, sherriff, or deputy in the Wild West.


Oh that however i'll have to disagree. Red Dead Redemption wasn't even being subtle at all that the 'Bureau' Marston was forced to work for was the precursor of the FBI, same organization with same methodology but with an initially different name.

At least in Redemption, the ties between the agents and the government and the outlaws had a stronger structure that ties it all up than what occurred in V, which perhaps borderlines on parody, or an extreme simplification.
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Official General
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#13

Posted 18 May 2014 - 04:48 PM Edited by Official General, 19 May 2014 - 12:04 AM.

@ Official GeneralFair enough. And as noted, "If the FIB/IAA/Merryweather section of the story actually was directly tied to organized crime", indeed, it would have brought over a more satisfying cohesive whole.It's hard to tell if this isn't just some major set up for the DLC plot. They're bound to be aiming for something 'bigger' to appease fans.Sometimes I also wonder if the FIB IAA and government mercenaries plot in V wasn't lifted over directly from Rockstar's now seemingly abandoned project "AGENT".Or maybe it acts a try-out testing routine, I don't know. 

 

The federal bureau's role in Red Dead Redemption was source of much praise too as I recall.

 Come on how can you compare this to the situation in GTA ? The real-life FIB never even existed in the time period that RDR was set in. A government agent back then was just another name for a special kind of lawman, sherriff, or deputy in the Wild West.
Oh that however i'll have to disagree. Red Dead Redemption wasn't even being subtle at all that the 'Bureau' Marston was forced to work for was the precursor of the FBI, same organization with same methodology but with an initially different name.At least in Redemption, the ties between the agents and the government and the outlaws had a stronger structure that ties it all up than what occurred in V, which perhaps borderlines on parody, or an extreme simplification.

That's what I meant about RDR, either way the government agent stuff directly tied in with main theme of Wild West criminals - catching most wanted outlaws. That's why it worked in RDR so well. I think those government agents were based on the real-life pioneering private detective agencies like the Pinkerton Detective Agency, who had U.S. government contracts to hunt down major outlaws and criminals in the Wild West era - they were precursor to government agencies like the FBI and the CIA.

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#14

Posted 18 May 2014 - 07:20 PM

Obviously, because of the V Hype..,

 

 

 

As we all know, everyone got hyped up their a$$ before GTA V was released... people where calling it the game of the century, this that, etc etc, bla bla bla. But yeah, most people THOUGHT that the 3 protagonists would be more ''independent'' rather than working for someone. IMO, the FIB part of the story was not that bad, but it did not literally suck. I do beileve that people hated it because the predicted the plot to be more different, rather than the way it went out In Game. 


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#15

Posted 18 May 2014 - 09:59 PM Edited by Official General, 19 May 2014 - 12:17 AM.

What does being in a internal war inbetween corrupted factions in goverment agencies have to do with a f*cking ex-navy,marine,seal whatever you call it that kills unarmed womento save america and fighting russians and ultranationalists?

 

Well that stuff was indeed in the game. The FIB missions were full of stupid and boring parodies to do with the War On Terror and America's national security. Rappelling down a skyscraper and smashing through windows not to rob banks or something valuable, but to to kidnap a Middle Eastern terrorist from IAA interrogation, or retrieving a stolen weapon of mass destruction, all that crap that felt very un-GTA like.

 

As fun as some of those missions might have been, they left me scratching my head in a major way - I just did not see why I had to care about this stuff or show an interest in it within the game - this is GTA, I just wanna commit certain, typical criminal actions for big money for my own personal gain, not to get entangled in some bullsh*t government conspiracy or to be doing errands for government agencies. 


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#16

Posted 18 May 2014 - 10:24 PM

Obviously, because of the V Hype..,

 

 

 

As we all know, everyone got hyped up their a$$ before GTA V was released... people where calling it the game of the century, this that, etc etc, bla bla bla. But yeah, most people THOUGHT that the 3 protagonists would be more ''independent'' rather than working for someone. IMO, the FIB part of the story was not that bad, but it did not literally suck. I do beileve that people hated it because the predicted the plot to be more different, rather than the way it went out In Game. 

Yup. There's a quote that I remember someone said from a while ago about the new Thief game:

 

"If you built yourself up ahead of launch with a gigantic list of everything the next Thief game SHOULD have, then you'll be disappointed. Because any game you hype up that much will disappoint you."

 

Of course, hype isn't all the consumer's fault, but I'd say it mostly is. I mean, did you see the threads pre-release?

 

That brings me to my next point. 99% of the hate/disappointments I've seen on GTA V have been on this forum. And what happened on this forum? Thousands of hours of research on every little thing, reading into every little thing (Remember 2405?) and stuff like that. I remember the one thread that had a good 500 people reading it because people expected GTA V to be announced during a financial conference call.

 

That's how desperate people are. Doing stuff like that will hype you up big time. And R*? All they did was release one trailer. That was all the consumers.


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#17

Posted 18 May 2014 - 10:48 PM

Because shooting people in a suit and fedora in an italian way is apparently more "Respectable" than shooting people in casual wear any other way.

 

I don't know what it is. Was it the godfather movies? Or do people just respect the italian mafia because they pray to god? Is it because they delivered booze during the prohibition era? Or the fact they used tommy guns? Was it john dillinger the bank robber who dressed like mafia?

 

Seriously, what makes the mafia the respectable and mature gang?


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#18

Posted 18 May 2014 - 11:12 PM Edited by Official General, 18 May 2014 - 11:14 PM.

Because shooting people in a suit and fedora in an italian way is apparently more "Respectable" than shooting people in casual wear any other way.

 

I don't know what it is. Was it the godfather movies? Or do people just respect the italian mafia because they pray to god? Is it because they delivered booze during the prohibition era? Or the fact they used tommy guns? Was it john dillinger the bank robber who dressed like mafia?

 

Seriously, what makes the mafia the respectable and mature gang?

 

Looool !! This made laugh so hard  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:. I gotta hand it you bro, this is some real funny sh*t, I love it. 

 

Back on topic and referring to your post, as far as I'm concerned, I don't really care about whether it's the Mafia in particular or any other crime group - I just want GTA to stick to it's usual formula of centering the game's theme and main story around real life organized crime and gangs in general. I don't want the theme of the story veering in a completely different direction like it did in V with FIB and government stuff. Most of the time, V's story just did not feel like GTA to me, and that's largely to do with all that federal agent and government yarn. 

 

This time around in V, I was hoping for a story that heavily involved Mexican drug cartels. I was also expecting more of the usual LA-style gang stuff, and some outlaw biker gang capers - but even that was quite minimal compared to all the FIB and the rest. 

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#19

Posted 18 May 2014 - 11:51 PM

 

Because shooting people in a suit and fedora in an italian way is apparently more "Respectable" than shooting people in casual wear any other way.

 

I don't know what it is. Was it the godfather movies? Or do people just respect the italian mafia because they pray to god? Is it because they delivered booze during the prohibition era? Or the fact they used tommy guns? Was it john dillinger the bank robber who dressed like mafia?

 

Seriously, what makes the mafia the respectable and mature gang?

 

Looool !! This made laugh so hard  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:. I gotta hand it you bro, this is some real funny sh*t, I love it. 

 

Back on topic and referring to your post, as far as I'm concerned, I don't really care about whether it's the Mafia in particular or any other crime group - I just want GTA to stick to it's usual formula of centering the game's theme and main story around real life organized crime and gangs in general. I don't want the theme of the story veering in a completely different direction like it did in V with FIB and government stuff. Most of the time, V's story just did not feel like GTA to me, and that's largely to do with all that federal agent and government yarn. 

 

This time around in V, I was hoping for a story that heavily involved Mexican drug cartels. I was also expecting more of the usual LA-style gang stuff, and some outlaw biker gang capers - but even that was quite minimal compared to all the FIB and the rest. 

 

You know, I have to agree. It also doesn't help that they basically painted tenpenny white and called him "Steve Haines".

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Niko Vercetti 112
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#20

Posted 19 May 2014 - 12:04 AM

Because shooting people in a suit and fedora in an italian way is apparently more "Respectable" than shooting people in casual wear any other way.
 
I don't know what it is. Was it the godfather movies? Or do people just respect the italian mafia because they pray to god? Is it because they delivered booze during the prohibition era? Or the fact they used tommy guns? Was it john dillinger the bank robber who dressed like mafia?
 
Seriously, what makes the mafia the respectable and mature gang?

Because they aren't "slinging dope and throwing up gang signs".

But in all seriousness whether it's gangbangers, bikers, mafia or freelance criminals I always felt better doing your common criminal acts. I would rather, ad Johnny would say "stick it to the man", than be bitch to the man. Corrupt cops, like Ray in III or Francis in IV, have always been a welcome addition to the series to me. You start pushing the limit when you're rapelling down buildings or breaking into chemicle weapon factories.

One thing they did really squander in V was the cartel thing. Yes people say it over and over again, but they could have tied that in easily with the IIA/FIB thing. Southern California is running rampant with these guys, and you know who backs them and helps get past border patrol? That's right, the government. Maybe if it had been Steve Hains & Co VS Madrazo & the IAA it could have worked.

Another thing I might add, they absolutely destroyed the ULP contact from IV in V. I remember him stating to Niko "I'm not the good guy, but I work with them" or something like that. He obviously cares about the country enough to have a Serbian war veteran go out and kill terrorists. But what is his objective in V? "Lets whipe out half the f*cking west coast for more funding", it just goes against his character (which IMO was one of the best side characters in IV).
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#21

Posted 19 May 2014 - 12:12 AM

I didn't mind the feds IAA/FIB whatever back in past games Toreno in SA the UL paper guy in IV but in V they took things too far the majority of the story is focused on that and it just lost its charm. Back in the day it was more of something like you do something for me I do something for you SA with Toreno and getting Sweet out IV with finding that Special someone in V its do this sh*t or else... I actually liked Toreno and the UL paper guy in V the feds are some assholes except for Dave.

Also

Spoiler

 


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#22

Posted 19 May 2014 - 12:29 AM Edited by Official General, 19 May 2014 - 03:11 AM.

But in all seriousness whether it's gangbangers, bikers, mafia or freelance criminals I always felt better doing your common criminal acts. I would rather, ad Johnny would say "stick it to the man", than be bitch to the man. Corrupt cops, like Ray in III or Francis in IV, have always been a welcome addition to the series to me. You start pushing the limit when you're rapelling down buildings or breaking into chemicle weapon factories.


One thing they did really squander in V was the cartel thing. Yes people say it over and over again, but they could have tied that in easily with the IIA/FIB thing. Southern California is running rampant with these guys, and you know who backs them and helps get past border patrol? That's right, the government. Maybe if it had been Steve Hains & Co VS Madrazo & the IAA it could have worked.

 

This  :^:

 

I'd have loved a corrupt cop story that was directly tied the Los Santos criminal underworld. Like a squad of crooked cops 'taxing' street gangs, pimps and drug dealers, selling drug seizures or weapons to gangs and crime groups, and framing certain criminals. Or maybe even blackmailing prominent citizens, for big cash payouts, man I could go on. 

 

The FIB/IAA angle could have definitely worked if it had been tied Mexican drug cartels - that's the kind of shady sh*t that's probably happening right now in the U.S. Those Mexican drug cartels are so rich and powerful enough to bribe high-ranking U.S. law enforcement and security agency officials and have them in their control via their immensely corrupt influences. Imagine a brutal drug war between Madrazo's and Oscar's drug cartels for control over the LS drug market with the FIB and IAA right in the middle trying to see who wins and who's side they should take, or to settle it and play one side against the other. That would have been some epic sh*t !!

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#23

Posted 19 May 2014 - 01:26 AM


But in all seriousness whether it's gangbangers, bikers, mafia or freelance criminals I always felt better doing your common criminal acts. I would rather, ad Johnny would say "stick it to the man", than be bitch to the man. Corrupt cops, like Ray in III or Francis in IV, have always been a welcome addition to the series to me. You start pushing the limit when you're rapelling down buildings or breaking into chemicle weapon factories.
One thing they did really squander in V was the cartel thing. Yes people say it over and over again, but they could have tied that in easily with the IIA/FIB thing. Southern California is running rampant with these guys, and you know who backs them and helps get past border patrol? That's right, the government. Maybe if it had been Steve Hains & Co VS Madrazo & the IAA it could have worked.

 
This  :^:
 
I'd have loved a corrupt cop story that was directly tied the Los Santos criminal underworld. Like a squad of cops 'taxing' street gangs, pimps and drug dealers, selling drug seizures or weapons to gangs and crime groups, and framing certain criminals. Or maybe even blackmailing prominent citizens, for big cash payouts, man I could go on. 
 
The FIB/IAA angle could have definitely worked if it had been tied Mexican drug cartels - that's the kind of shady sh*t that's probably happening right now in the U.S. Those Mexican drug cartels are so rich and powerful enough to bribe high-ranking U.S. law enforcement and security agency officials and have them in their control via their immensely corrupt influences. Imagine a brutal drug war between Madrazo's and Oscar's drug cartels for control over the LS drug market with the FIB and IAA right in the middle trying to see who wins and who's side they should take, or to settle it and play one side against the other. That would have been some epic sh*t !!
Exactly. Hell they could have tied the heists into it too. Steve has you wipe out the Madrazo's IAA contacts (without any direct link present between the FIB and our trio), all the while so he can take their place. In turn selling you out the cartel for your actions against them (without them even know Steve had you pull of the hits on their contacts). With the protagonists in turn ripping off a $50,000,000 shipment of drugs Madrazo had coming in so that TPI could move the sh*t.

Set up Steve and Madrazo as the antagonists. Ommit the Weston plot (or just have it not contribute to the main story).

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#24

Posted 19 May 2014 - 04:41 AM

I think part of it is that Steve Haines is such an unlikable douche that it's hard to get excited for FIB missions this go around. In GTA 3, the FIB were so mysterious to me. If I was unlucky to get enough stars that they were on my ass I was still actually looking forward to stealing one of their unmarked cars. I don't remember much about the FIB in Vice City and the voice talent in San An (ie. James Woods) made it all the more worth it.

The best part of these govt missions in V was the UL Paper cameos. Other than that, I hated them all. The torture mission in particular was ridiculous.. Trevor's character was at his weakest throughout that mission. For a guy who hates being told what to do, he seemed to have no problem being a 'yes man' all of a sudden and then for no real reason he's willing to help the guy escape rather then kill him. Then.. we're supposed to buy all of the othr random kills we see when we switch to him in free roam..

Racecarlock
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#25

Posted 19 May 2014 - 06:02 AM

 

 

But in all seriousness whether it's gangbangers, bikers, mafia or freelance criminals I always felt better doing your common criminal acts. I would rather, ad Johnny would say "stick it to the man", than be bitch to the man. Corrupt cops, like Ray in III or Francis in IV, have always been a welcome addition to the series to me. You start pushing the limit when you're rapelling down buildings or breaking into chemicle weapon factories.
One thing they did really squander in V was the cartel thing. Yes people say it over and over again, but they could have tied that in easily with the IIA/FIB thing. Southern California is running rampant with these guys, and you know who backs them and helps get past border patrol? That's right, the government. Maybe if it had been Steve Hains & Co VS Madrazo & the IAA it could have worked.

 
This  :^:
 
I'd have loved a corrupt cop story that was directly tied the Los Santos criminal underworld. Like a squad of cops 'taxing' street gangs, pimps and drug dealers, selling drug seizures or weapons to gangs and crime groups, and framing certain criminals. Or maybe even blackmailing prominent citizens, for big cash payouts, man I could go on. 
 
The FIB/IAA angle could have definitely worked if it had been tied Mexican drug cartels - that's the kind of shady sh*t that's probably happening right now in the U.S. Those Mexican drug cartels are so rich and powerful enough to bribe high-ranking U.S. law enforcement and security agency officials and have them in their control via their immensely corrupt influences. Imagine a brutal drug war between Madrazo's and Oscar's drug cartels for control over the LS drug market with the FIB and IAA right in the middle trying to see who wins and who's side they should take, or to settle it and play one side against the other. That would have been some epic sh*t !!
Exactly. Hell they could have tied the heists into it too. Steve has you wipe out the Madrazo's IAA contacts (without any direct link present between the FIB and our trio), all the while so he can take their place. In turn selling you out the cartel for your actions against them (without them even know Steve had you pull of the hits on their contacts). With the protagonists in turn ripping off a $50,000,000 shipment of drugs Madrazo had coming in so that TPI could move the sh*t.

Set up Steve and Madrazo as the antagonists. Ommit the Weston plot (or just have it not contribute to the main story).

 

Oh man, They could have parodied both the fast and furious movies and the fast and furious government smuggling weapons to mexican drug dealers operation in one mission. That would have been fun.

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BlackNoise
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#26

Posted 19 May 2014 - 07:35 AM Edited by BlackNoise, 19 May 2014 - 07:36 AM.

@Grievous

 

You're making an argument for why many things could work for GTA if it's only about fun. Why not aliens or dinosaurs or anything? When R* told us what GTA V was supposed to be about, we all started to imagine the types of stuff we would be doing in the story. We were thinking about our favorite heist movies, and Breaking Bad was real popular at the time and we knew Trevor was into some drug sh*t, so that was mentioned a lot. We didn't know much about Franklin, but we were still speculating on how much his gangster past/present would be in the story. It was all criminal sh*t. 

 

Then we played GTA V, and R* was still doing the same law enforcement involved missions that just get in the way of a good crime story. GTA glamorizes the criminal life. So when you play GTA, you're not thinking about how you should be working for/with cops. You want to avoid them, unless you want a high speed chase or shootout. I understand the fun gameplay that comes from it, but I hope R* will be more creative next time. 

 

Cops are just used as a plot device to force us to do stupid sh*t, like working for free for example. I'm waiting for the GTA where some agent gives us a mission, and we can just shoot them in the head right away. I'll happily deal with the consequences. 

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PhillBellic
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#27

Posted 19 May 2014 - 07:37 AM

 

 

But in all seriousness whether it's gangbangers, bikers, mafia or freelance criminals I always felt better doing your common criminal acts. I would rather, ad Johnny would say "stick it to the man", than be bitch to the man. Corrupt cops, like Ray in III or Francis in IV, have always been a welcome addition to the series to me. You start pushing the limit when you're rapelling down buildings or breaking into chemicle weapon factories.
One thing they did really squander in V was the cartel thing. Yes people say it over and over again, but they could have tied that in easily with the IIA/FIB thing. Southern California is running rampant with these guys, and you know who backs them and helps get past border patrol? That's right, the government. Maybe if it had been Steve Hains & Co VS Madrazo & the IAA it could have worked.

 
This  :^:
 
I'd have loved a corrupt cop story that was directly tied the Los Santos criminal underworld. Like a squad of cops 'taxing' street gangs, pimps and drug dealers, selling drug seizures or weapons to gangs and crime groups, and framing certain criminals. Or maybe even blackmailing prominent citizens, for big cash payouts, man I could go on. 
 
The FIB/IAA angle could have definitely worked if it had been tied Mexican drug cartels - that's the kind of shady sh*t that's probably happening right now in the U.S. Those Mexican drug cartels are so rich and powerful enough to bribe high-ranking U.S. law enforcement and security agency officials and have them in their control via their immensely corrupt influences. Imagine a brutal drug war between Madrazo's and Oscar's drug cartels for control over the LS drug market with the FIB and IAA right in the middle trying to see who wins and who's side they should take, or to settle it and play one side against the other. That would have been some epic sh*t !!
Exactly. Hell they could have tied the heists into it too. Steve has you wipe out the Madrazo's IAA contacts (without any direct link present between the FIB and our trio), all the while so he can take their place. In turn selling you out the cartel for your actions against them (without them even know Steve had you pull of the hits on their contacts). With the protagonists in turn ripping off a $50,000,000 shipment of drugs Madrazo had coming in so that TPI could move the sh*t.

Set up Steve and Madrazo as the antagonists. Ommit the Weston plot (or just have it not contribute to the main story).

 

I have just read your responses 'Niko Vercetti 112' and 'Official General' and I can just say this.

Had the both of you had a senior role in the creation of the story I would be looking at GTA V in a more positive light. The story was just flat and un-interesting and quite boring. The early game had Madraso as some high ranking Mexican Cartel boss. I thought he would turn out to be some one who you would never want to cross paths with and then in an instant suffered from "Chuck Cunningham Syndrome".

 

What are your thoughts?

 

Cheers.

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#28

Posted 19 May 2014 - 07:57 AM

I have no problems with such missions, whether you work for FIB or not.
All I need some interesting options and non-scripted GTA action to play ANY mission, irrespective of what's popular.
GTA V has managed to offer the variety and a beautiful map, but it still hasn't yet managed to get rid of "go there, do X and scripted trigger of events" approach in their appeal.
It hurts the replay ability a lot.
Also, I find many missions could have been less annoying and more challenging with one protagnist than switching back and forth.
Anyways, its quite boring to play the story missions, let alone the popularity of the concept.

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#29

Posted 19 May 2014 - 12:07 PM

@ Grievous
 

I was under the impression that folks considered Mike Torrenno's missions as some of the most memorable ones in San Andreas, coupled with The Truth's involvement. And that later on the United Front Liberty Paper contact was a natural spiritual successor in a more grounded approach of the Grand Theft Auto universe, if not also acting as a convenient plot device for Niko's search of the special someone.

 
You're misinformed or misguided. Mike Toreno's missions were the worst part of San Andrea's story for many people, I don't know too many people that enjoyed them, most people said it was kinda silly, very unrealistic, and boring. I too did not like that part myself. The United Front Liberty Paper stuff in GTA IV, was nothing special and it was not exactly that memorable, I never heard anyone speak about it like it was their favorite part of the game. 
 

The federal bureau's role in Red Dead Redemption was source of much praise too as I recall.

 
Come on how can you compare this to the situation in GTA ? The real-life FIB never even existed in the time period that RDR was set in. A government agent back then was just another name for a special kind of lawman, sherriff, or deputy in the Wild West. 
 

They were fun missions in their own right, making use of interesting game mechanics at times, and the mission giver themselves were well written and acted characters, as well as making for a nice change compare to the usual gangster/mob boss/drug kingpin and the likes.

 
A change is not always for the better, and this case shows. Not everything needs to be changed, sometimes change is for the worst. GTA's popularity is rooted in the fact that it's main themes have always been centered around gangs and organized crime. Changing this formula to make the theme to mostly revolve around corrupt federal and government agents has obviously left a sour taste in the mouth of many GTA fans, and it has clearly been the main cause of disappointment for the main story. Yeah some of the fed/government agent missions in V were fun, but that's not necessarily the point or the be all and end all - it was not the preferred and typical representation of fun in a GTA game for many people. If the FIB/IAA/Merryweather section of the story actually was directly tied to organized crime, it might have been a different story.
 

So what happened with V? was the government conspiracy involvement simply too much perhaps?

 
I definitely thought so, it was way too much that it ruined the main story and feel of it, many times V no longer felt like GTA. Many people expressed the same or similar views on this. On top of that, it was badly written and structured. Before the game finished I just wanted the FIB/IAA/Merryweather stuff to be quickly over with, but to my horror it was the main theme. Rockstar really overdid this part of the game for sure, very much to V's detriment. 
 

I will maintain that missions relating to the IAA and Merryweather were better executed than the random fights against the Ballas or any other random gang. And the three heist the FIB agents forces the protagonists to perform? probably my favorites compared to the other heists.

 
I respect that's your opinion, but I personally would rather traditional GTA fare that involves gangs and organized crime over that federal and government agent bullsh*t any day. GTA needs to go back the essence of what made it great, and it's certainly not not this. 
 

Considering the amount of negative reception the government conspiracy involvement was in V, at least we can probably be sure it won't crop up again as much in future installments. Which, to me currently at least, I find the negative reception to be somewhat of a shame.

 
I f*cking well hope this government-centered stuff in V never crops up in another GTA again. You find the negative reception of it a shame, I see it as a beacon of hope that Rockstar can learn from their mistakes and never make such bullsh*t in a GTA story again.
 
@ NikoVercetti112
 

 
But in all seriousness I wasn't a big fan of the government conspiracy thing because it took up most of the plot. I mean in both SA and IV the government characters were important in the way of progressing the plot, but at least 50% of the missions weren't dedicated to saving American from their evil government. It was just a bit of overkill in V.
 
Maybe if they somehow worked the fact that the real FBI and CIA are pretty much the puppet masters in the drug trade I could have accepted it better. But it feels more like a season of Homeland than GTA.

 
Exactly this :^: 
 
I don't even mind the government conspiracy stuff in GTA, but just not to the point it takes up a majority of the main story and theme. GTA is a crime game generally centered around themes of traditional criminal elements to with organized crime and gangs, not corrupt government agents. SA and IV had this, it played a minimal part in both of the game's stories. 
 
And yeah, V's government agent missions just felt like theme to do with Homeland, the a lot of the gameplay felt like a cross between Splinter Cell and in some cases, COD Modern Warfare. 

You still on here bitching? lol

 

GTA V is a mess. The story is too FIB-oriented. Michael should've had better things going on. Franklin should've stayed in the hood. Trevor.....other than killing that little girl Johnny Klebitz, he was an annoying turd. The story wasn't good. R* took two more steps back with this game. I hate to see what utter, un-fun sh*t that GTA 6 will be unless R* remembers why they made GTA III.

I went on to Battlefield4 PS4 and have never came back to GTAV. V is sub-par compared to the GTA's of the past. What a disappointment all around.

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Official General
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#30

Posted 19 May 2014 - 12:27 PM Edited by Official General, 19 May 2014 - 01:35 PM.

@Grievous

 

You're making an argument for why many things could work for GTA if it's only about fun. Why not aliens or dinosaurs or anything? When R* told us what GTA V was supposed to be about, we all started to imagine the types of stuff we would be doing in the story. We were thinking about our favorite heist movies, and Breaking Bad was real popular at the time and we knew Trevor was into some drug sh*t, so that was mentioned a lot. We didn't know much about Franklin, but we were still speculating on how much his gangster past/present would be in the story. It was all criminal sh*t. 

 

Then we played GTA V, and R* was still doing the same law enforcement involved missions that just get in the way of a good crime story. GTA glamorizes the criminal life. So when you play GTA, you're not thinking about how you should be working for/with cops. You want to avoid them, unless you want a high speed chase or shootout. I understand the fun gameplay that comes from it, but I hope R* will be more creative next time. 

 

Cops are just used as a plot device to force us to do stupid sh*t, like working for free for example. I'm waiting for the GTA where some agent gives us a mission, and we can just shoot them in the head right away. I'll happily deal with the consequences. 

 

I agree with everything here, but the part I highlighted is so true man. I imagine that's exactly what most of us envisioned before we played GTA V. Certain people like to say bullsh*t like we hyped ourselves up too much, or we put too much emphasis on what we personally wanted in GTA - but I'm pretty certain that most people did not think they were gonna be working for/with federal and government agents for most of the game. Now some die-hard Rockstar defenders are telling us that we should be happy with it, just because it's 'fresh'. Well, something can be fresh and new, and still be sh*t unfortunately. 

 

I have just read your responses 'Niko Vercetti 112' and 'Official General' and I can just say this.

 

Had the both of you had a senior role in the creation of the story I would be looking at GTA V in a more positive light. The story was just flat and un-interesting and quite boring. The early game had Madraso as some high ranking Mexican Cartel boss. I thought he would turn out to be some one who you would never want to cross paths with and then in an instant suffered from "Chuck Cunningham Syndrome".

 

 

I'm very honored by your comment bro, many thanks  :^:

 

My thoughts are that Madrazo was a great waste of a potentially great antagonist and springboard for a great set of storylines for the game. It's as simple as that really. 

 

@ Atomic

 

Hay bro, where you been ? Good to see you posting ! I'm still moaning yeah lol. To be honest, I just sometimes have a lot of spare time on my hands to post, even when I'm at work ! I just finished Max Payne 3 and I'm trying to start playing the Last Of Us. 

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