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Integration/Separation

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Reaper Madness
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#1

Posted 22 April 2014 - 07:21 PM Edited by Reaper Madness, 22 April 2014 - 08:25 PM.

To continue on from the 'Unpopular Opinion thread' I decided to create this topic so we no longer derail the last thread any further. If this is not acceptable then please lock, but I was told by a Mod to take my views somewhere else and this seems to be the right forum to have and discuss them. 

 

My argument: Integration destroyed Blacks in America and blacks are better off separating from other races. Before integration, places like Rosewood, Tulsa, and Wilmington were prosperous and economically beneficial to Africans in the United States. Blacks had their own Negro League, their own strip malls,and mllion dollar wealth that was supposed to be passed down to generations until Whites caused race riots to burn and bomb these places. 

 

After 'integration' and the implementation of the Welfare system, Blacks are now poorer than ever. The Chinese, the Arabs, and Whites are now integrated in our neighborhoods. They sell to Blacks without contributing anything to the Black economy. By percentage this makes Black people the largest consumers who's producers are not benefiting from this so called 'integration'.


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#2

Posted 22 April 2014 - 07:52 PM

What are your views? I think you'll probably need to elaborate on the opening post here if you want this thread to stay open. You haven't provided me with anything to debate or discuss with you.


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#3

Posted 22 April 2014 - 07:58 PM

My apologies. In the 'Unpopular Opinion' thread I stated how integration destroyed Blacks psychologically, socially, and more important economically. Some people took unkindly to that so I wanted to carry the discussion over here. 


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#4

Posted 22 April 2014 - 08:00 PM Edited by ShootPeopleNotDope, 22 April 2014 - 08:10 PM.

Right, so, I want to discuss the clip you linked earlier.

 

Let's break this down for a sec:

"They haven't even got integration right here in New York City. You have worse integration problems in the north than in the south. So if it doesn't work--so if you can't bring about integration in New York City, as international, Cosmopolitan, and up-to-date as it's supposed to be, you will never get integration anywhere else in the country".

 

Now, this could be interpreted as advocacy for segregation, but it's not. What made integration impossible was structural racism against black people. When the Great Migration happened, and blacks began to move from the rural south to the inner-city, black people were only able to lease mortgages in certain areas. Thus, we have the creation of the modern American ghetto as we know it. Even today, there remains de-facto segregation in this respect.


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#5

Posted 22 April 2014 - 08:04 PM

My apologies. In the 'Unpopular Opinion' thread I stated how integration destroyed Blacks psychologically, socially, and more important economically. Some people took unkindly to that so I wanted to carry the discussion over here. 

OK then I just have a few questions about your line of argument. Firstly do you mean 'more importantly' or 'more important' because the two sentences have almost completely different meanings. Secondly what was the mechanism for this destruction?


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#6

Posted 22 April 2014 - 08:09 PM

@ Reaper Madness.

 

you are going to have to edit and re-do the first post in this topic.

you need to explain what the argument / debate is, what position you're taking, and why you're taking that position.

 

otherwise this thread will be closed for poor quality.

the D&D forum is for serious discussions.

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#7

Posted 22 April 2014 - 08:12 PM Edited by Reaper Madness, 22 April 2014 - 08:26 PM.

Right, so, I want to discuss the clip you linked earlier.

 

Let's break this down for a sec:

"They haven't even got integration right here in New York City. You have worse integration problems in the north than in the south. So if it doesn't work--so if you can't bring about integration as international, Cosmopolitan, and up-to-date as it's supposed to be, you will never get integration anywhere else in the country".

 

Now, this could be interpreted as advocacy for segregation, but it's not. What made integration impossible was structural racism against black people. When the Great Migration happened, and blacks began to move from the rural south to the inner-city, black people were only able to lease mortgages in certain areas. Thus, we have the creation of the modern American ghetto as we know it. Even today, there remains de-facto segregation in this respect.

You don't believe that structural racism does not exist today or any kind of White supremacy? Before I didn't ask you what he meant. I asked you what views did he change when he came back from Mecca. Obviously his views on integration did not change. 

I already know about why we have a poverty gap between Blacks and Whites. Before the 40s, White didn't have money. Most of them were poor like Blacks, so Whites got homes, FHA, and VA loans that Blacks couldn't get, while Blacks inherited the debt from that.

I edited out my first post.


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#8

Posted 22 April 2014 - 08:28 PM

Wait, so you're arguing there was a greater degree of economic and social equality between whites and blacks before the civil rights movement than there has been after? I'm not sure I follow that. Can you please explain, using examples and where possible evidence, how you've come to such a conclusion?
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ShootPeopleNotDope
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#9

Posted 22 April 2014 - 08:36 PM

 

Right, so, I want to discuss the clip you linked earlier.

 

Let's break this down for a sec:

"They haven't even got integration right here in New York City. You have worse integration problems in the north than in the south. So if it doesn't work--so if you can't bring about integration as international, Cosmopolitan, and up-to-date as it's supposed to be, you will never get integration anywhere else in the country".

 

Now, this could be interpreted as advocacy for segregation, but it's not. What made integration impossible was structural racism against black people. When the Great Migration happened, and blacks began to move from the rural south to the inner-city, black people were only able to lease mortgages in certain areas. Thus, we have the creation of the modern American ghetto as we know it. Even today, there remains de-facto segregation in this respect.

You don't believe that structural racism does not exist today or any kind of White supremacy? Before I didn't ask you what he meant. I asked you what views did he change when he came back from Mecca. Obviously his views on integration did not change. 

I already know about why we have a poverty gap between Blacks and Whites. Before the 40s, White didn't have money. Most of them were poor like Blacks, so Whites got homes, FHA, and VA loans that Blacks couldn't get, while Blacks inherited the debt from that.

 

No, I think that structural racism and White supremacy are very real today, and must be combated in whatever way necessary. I just don't think racial separatism/nationalism is going to change anything, other than being exploited by a black boss as opposed to a white boss, condemned to jail by a black judge instead of a white judge, beat by a black cop as opposed to a white cop, etc.. Like Mikhail Bakunin said "When the people are being beaten with a stick, they are not much happier if it is called The People's Stick".

 

Anyways, I've already answered your question, so we're just going in circles.

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#10

Posted 22 April 2014 - 08:39 PM Edited by Reaper Madness, 22 April 2014 - 08:46 PM.

Wait, so you're arguing there was a greater degree of economic and social equality between whites and blacks before the civil rights movement than there has been after? I'm not sure I follow that. Can you please explain, using examples and where possible evidence, how you've come to such a conclusion?

Early in the 19th century before integration, Blacks had their own segregated sports teams and economic wealth other than the Welfare system. 

There were these 'Blackwallstreets' such as Tulsa http://en.wikipedia....Tulsa,_Oklahoma

 

Rosewood http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosewood_massacre and

 

Wiimington http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilmington_Insurrection_of_1898.

 

These communities were doing just fine before Whites went to go tear them down along with government help.

 

After 'integration' none of these wealthy businesses ever showed up again because of the fear of what happened to the other communities. 'Integration' was meant to stop Blacks from buying and selling to each other and instead use their money on White owned businesses. You see, segregation made it impossible for Blacks to buy from Whites so that forced them to create their own businesses. It just turns out that it was actually more beneficial for them to do that anyway.


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#11

Posted 22 April 2014 - 08:44 PM Edited by Reaper Madness, 22 April 2014 - 08:48 PM.

 

 

Right, so, I want to discuss the clip you linked earlier.

 

Let's break this down for a sec:

"They haven't even got integration right here in New York City. You have worse integration problems in the north than in the south. So if it doesn't work--so if you can't bring about integration as international, Cosmopolitan, and up-to-date as it's supposed to be, you will never get integration anywhere else in the country".

 

Now, this could be interpreted as advocacy for segregation, but it's not. What made integration impossible was structural racism against black people. When the Great Migration happened, and blacks began to move from the rural south to the inner-city, black people were only able to lease mortgages in certain areas. Thus, we have the creation of the modern American ghetto as we know it. Even today, there remains de-facto segregation in this respect.

You don't believe that structural racism does not exist today or any kind of White supremacy? Before I didn't ask you what he meant. I asked you what views did he change when he came back from Mecca. Obviously his views on integration did not change. 

I already know about why we have a poverty gap between Blacks and Whites. Before the 40s, White didn't have money. Most of them were poor like Blacks, so Whites got homes, FHA, and VA loans that Blacks couldn't get, while Blacks inherited the debt from that.

 

No, I think that structural racism and White supremacy are very real today, and must be combated in whatever way necessary. I just don't think racial separatism/nationalism is going to change anything, other than being exploited by a black boss as opposed to a white boss, condemned to jail by a black judge instead of a white judge, beat by a black cop as opposed to a white cop, etc.. Like Mikhail Bakunin said "When the people are being beaten with a stick, they are not much happier if it is called The People's Stick".

 

Anyways, I've already answered your question, so we're just going in circles.

 

Tell me how a Black boss is going to exploit a Black man like a White boss does today? You are completely delusional to believe that Black cops are beating down Black men at the same rate as White cops. It's called empathy. We don't want to say it, but a White jury has more empathy for an accused White criminal than an accused Black criminal. It's basic psychology. 


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#12

Posted 22 April 2014 - 09:01 PM

Early in the 19th century before integration, Blacks had their own segregated sports teams and economic wealth other than the Welfare system...
 
These communities were doing just fine before Whites went to go tear them down along with government help.


But these weren't exactly typical, were they? The fact that relatively prosperous black majority areas of the US existed before desegregation doesn't prove the thesis that blacks were better off economically and socially than after any more than the existence of free, prosperous blacks in the Northern US before 1804 would that slavery were a myth there. Your evidence doesn't fit your hypothesis.

Please avoid double posting, too.

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#13

Posted 22 April 2014 - 09:08 PM Edited by Reaper Madness, 22 April 2014 - 09:08 PM.

 

Early in the 19th century before integration, Blacks had their own segregated sports teams and economic wealth other than the Welfare system...
 
These communities were doing just fine before Whites went to go tear them down along with government help.


But these weren't exactly typical, were they? The fact that relatively prosperous black majority areas of the US existed before desegregation doesn't prove the thesis that blacks were better off economically and socially than after any more than the existence of free, prosperous blacks in the Northern US before 1804 would that slavery were a myth there. Your evidence doesn't fit your hypothesis.

Please avoid double posting, too.

 

They were not atypical at all. These were only the well known Black Wallstreets and there were more to come had it not been for what happened in Tulsa, Rosewood, and Wilmington. Those fabricated race riots were threat messages.

How does that not prove that Blacks were not economically better off than they are now? Name one prosperous Black community with all black businesses that are gaining wealth today? Most businesses in Black neighborhoods, and even in Black countries like Jamaica are owned by Whites, Asians, and Arabs who do nothing to build Black economic power. They take their money and send it back to their country. 


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#14

Posted 22 April 2014 - 09:14 PM


Tell me how a Black boss is going to exploit a Black man like a White boss does today? You are completely delusional to believe that Black cops are beating down Black men at the same rate as White cops. It's called empathy. We don't want to say it, but a White jury has more empathy for an accused White criminal than an accused Black criminal. It's basic psychology. 

 

A black boss will/does exploit the same way any boss does, by living off the backs of wage-laborers--paying them far less than their labor is worth. That is the nature of the capitalist mode of production, whether the boss is black, white, Jewish, Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Sikh etc.

 

The police, whether black or white, or whatever-the-f*ck, exist merely to protect private property, and maintain social control in the interests of the ruling class. That is, the police provide legitimacy to the State's monopoly on violence. While cases like Rodney King and Oscar Grant are not uncommon--far more common than we would generally like to admit to ourselves, actually--police batons and bullets are often colorblind.


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#15

Posted 22 April 2014 - 09:20 PM

 


Tell me how a Black boss is going to exploit a Black man like a White boss does today? You are completely delusional to believe that Black cops are beating down Black men at the same rate as White cops. It's called empathy. We don't want to say it, but a White jury has more empathy for an accused White criminal than an accused Black criminal. It's basic psychology. 

 

A black boss will/does exploit the same way any boss does, by living off the backs of wage-laborers--paying them far less than their labor is worth. That is the nature of the capitalist mode of production, whether the boss is black, white, Jewish, Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Sikh etc.

 

The police, whether black or white, or whatever-the-f*ck, exist merely to protect private property, and maintain social control in the interests of the ruling class. That is, the police provide legitimacy to the State's monopoly on violence. While cases like Rodney King and Oscar Grant are not uncommon--far more common than we would generally like to admit to ourselves, actually--police batons and bullets are often colorblind.

 

do you have any proof that Black bosses do these things? Because I can show you proof of White bosses denying people because they had Black sounding names.

 

So basically, you're telling me to excuse what happened to Rodney King, Sean Bell, Oscar Grant, etc and not try to separate from these so called 'color-blind' cops. yea, that is one of the most idiotic things I've read this week. 


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#16

Posted 22 April 2014 - 09:25 PM

 

 


Tell me how a Black boss is going to exploit a Black man like a White boss does today? You are completely delusional to believe that Black cops are beating down Black men at the same rate as White cops. It's called empathy. We don't want to say it, but a White jury has more empathy for an accused White criminal than an accused Black criminal. It's basic psychology. 

 

A black boss will/does exploit the same way any boss does, by living off the backs of wage-laborers--paying them far less than their labor is worth. That is the nature of the capitalist mode of production, whether the boss is black, white, Jewish, Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Sikh etc.

 

The police, whether black or white, or whatever-the-f*ck, exist merely to protect private property, and maintain social control in the interests of the ruling class. That is, the police provide legitimacy to the State's monopoly on violence. While cases like Rodney King and Oscar Grant are not uncommon--far more common than we would generally like to admit to ourselves, actually--police batons and bullets are often colorblind.

 

do you have any proof that Black bosses do these things? Because I can show you proof of White bosses denying people because they had Black sounding names.

 

So basically, you're telling me to excuse what happened to Rodney King, Sean Bell, Oscar Grant, etc and not try to separate from these so called 'color-blind' cops. yea, that is one of the most idiotic things I've read this week. 

 

All bosses do these things, that's how one makes a profit under capitalism, through the exploitation of labor.

 

No, I'm not telling you to disregard those cases at all, I'm simply saying violence is the nature of the police, and while it does affect black folks disproportionally more than white folks, it affects everyone. The very nature of the police is violent no matter where you go, or what color the police.


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#17

Posted 22 April 2014 - 09:30 PM

 

 

 


Tell me how a Black boss is going to exploit a Black man like a White boss does today? You are completely delusional to believe that Black cops are beating down Black men at the same rate as White cops. It's called empathy. We don't want to say it, but a White jury has more empathy for an accused White criminal than an accused Black criminal. It's basic psychology. 

 

A black boss will/does exploit the same way any boss does, by living off the backs of wage-laborers--paying them far less than their labor is worth. That is the nature of the capitalist mode of production, whether the boss is black, white, Jewish, Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Sikh etc.

 

The police, whether black or white, or whatever-the-f*ck, exist merely to protect private property, and maintain social control in the interests of the ruling class. That is, the police provide legitimacy to the State's monopoly on violence. While cases like Rodney King and Oscar Grant are not uncommon--far more common than we would generally like to admit to ourselves, actually--police batons and bullets are often colorblind.

 

do you have any proof that Black bosses do these things? Because I can show you proof of White bosses denying people because they had Black sounding names.

 

So basically, you're telling me to excuse what happened to Rodney King, Sean Bell, Oscar Grant, etc and not try to separate from these so called 'color-blind' cops. yea, that is one of the most idiotic things I've read this week. 

 

All bosses do these things, that's how one makes a profit under capitalism, through the exploitation of labor.

 

No, I'm not telling you to disregard those cases at all, I'm simply saying violence is the nature of the police, and while it does affect black folks disproportionally more than white folks, it affects everyone. The very nature of the police is violent no matter where you go, or what color the police.

 

Yes, just like there are criminals in every race. My argument is that there are more chances for police brutality and exploitation to happen to Blacks from Whites than there are to happen from Blacks to other Blacks. You already proved that for me with Rodney King, Sean Bell, etc. 

Show me where Black police officers all shot up one Black man because they thought he had a gun, or pulled over a Black man and all together decided to beat him repeatedly. I'll wait. 


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#18

Posted 22 April 2014 - 09:47 PM Edited by ShootPeopleNotDope, 22 April 2014 - 09:53 PM.

 

 

 

 


Tell me how a Black boss is going to exploit a Black man like a White boss does today? You are completely delusional to believe that Black cops are beating down Black men at the same rate as White cops. It's called empathy. We don't want to say it, but a White jury has more empathy for an accused White criminal than an accused Black criminal. It's basic psychology. 

 

A black boss will/does exploit the same way any boss does, by living off the backs of wage-laborers--paying them far less than their labor is worth. That is the nature of the capitalist mode of production, whether the boss is black, white, Jewish, Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Sikh etc.

 

The police, whether black or white, or whatever-the-f*ck, exist merely to protect private property, and maintain social control in the interests of the ruling class. That is, the police provide legitimacy to the State's monopoly on violence. While cases like Rodney King and Oscar Grant are not uncommon--far more common than we would generally like to admit to ourselves, actually--police batons and bullets are often colorblind.

 

do you have any proof that Black bosses do these things? Because I can show you proof of White bosses denying people because they had Black sounding names.

 

So basically, you're telling me to excuse what happened to Rodney King, Sean Bell, Oscar Grant, etc and not try to separate from these so called 'color-blind' cops. yea, that is one of the most idiotic things I've read this week. 

 

All bosses do these things, that's how one makes a profit under capitalism, through the exploitation of labor.

 

No, I'm not telling you to disregard those cases at all, I'm simply saying violence is the nature of the police, and while it does affect black folks disproportionally more than white folks, it affects everyone. The very nature of the police is violent no matter where you go, or what color the police.

 

Yes, just like there are criminals in every race. My argument is that there are more chances for police brutality and exploitation to happen to Blacks from Whites than there are to happen from Blacks to other Blacks. You already proved that for me with Rodney King, Sean Bell, etc. 

Show me where Black police officers all shot up one Black man because they thought he had a gun, or pulled over a Black man and all together decided to beat him repeatedly. I'll wait. 

 


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#19

Posted 22 April 2014 - 09:54 PM Edited by Reaper Madness, 22 April 2014 - 09:57 PM.

 

 

 

 

 


Tell me how a Black boss is going to exploit a Black man like a White boss does today? You are completely delusional to believe that Black cops are beating down Black men at the same rate as White cops. It's called empathy. We don't want to say it, but a White jury has more empathy for an accused White criminal than an accused Black criminal. It's basic psychology. 

 

A black boss will/does exploit the same way any boss does, by living off the backs of wage-laborers--paying them far less than their labor is worth. That is the nature of the capitalist mode of production, whether the boss is black, white, Jewish, Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Sikh etc.

 

The police, whether black or white, or whatever-the-f*ck, exist merely to protect private property, and maintain social control in the interests of the ruling class. That is, the police provide legitimacy to the State's monopoly on violence. While cases like Rodney King and Oscar Grant are not uncommon--far more common than we would generally like to admit to ourselves, actually--police batons and bullets are often colorblind.

 

do you have any proof that Black bosses do these things? Because I can show you proof of White bosses denying people because they had Black sounding names.

 

So basically, you're telling me to excuse what happened to Rodney King, Sean Bell, Oscar Grant, etc and not try to separate from these so called 'color-blind' cops. yea, that is one of the most idiotic things I've read this week. 

 

All bosses do these things, that's how one makes a profit under capitalism, through the exploitation of labor.

 

No, I'm not telling you to disregard those cases at all, I'm simply saying violence is the nature of the police, and while it does affect black folks disproportionally more than white folks, it affects everyone. The very nature of the police is violent no matter where you go, or what color the police.

 

Yes, just like there are criminals in every race. My argument is that there are more chances for police brutality and exploitation to happen to Blacks from Whites than there are to happen from Blacks to other Blacks. You already proved that for me with Rodney King, Sean Bell, etc. 

Show me where Black police officers all shot up one Black man because they thought he had a gun, or pulled over a Black man and all together decided to beat him repeatedly. I'll wait. 

 

 

You had to look so hard far back to 2009 and still couldn't show a group of Black officers that jumped or shot and killed a Black man. Like I said, there are criminals and scum in every race, but there are more evidence of Whites still beating and killing Blacks at a larger scale than Black police officers. Chris Doner's manifesto already proved that a whole police department is guilty of targeting and racial profiling against Blacks. I'll take that in trade of beating shot and killed by a White police officer anyday.


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#20

Posted 22 April 2014 - 10:00 PM Edited by ShootPeopleNotDope, 22 April 2014 - 10:01 PM.


You had to look so hard far back to 2009 and still couldn't show a group of Black officers that jumped or shot and killed a Black man. Like I said, there are criminals and scum in every race, but there are more evidence of Whites still beating and killing Blacks at a larger scale than Black police officers. Chris Doner's manifesto already proved that a whole police department is guilty of targeting and racial profiling against Blacks. I'll take that in trade of beating shot and killed by a White police officer.

 

You're being incredibly disingenuous. I'm not disputing racism in the police force at all. I'm not saying the police don't racially profile people, and I admitted that police violence affects black people at a much greater rate than anyone else. What I am saying is police violence isn't necessarily racist, it's just how the police operate, regardless of what color they happen to be.


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#21

Posted 22 April 2014 - 10:10 PM

 


You had to look so hard far back to 2009 and still couldn't show a group of Black officers that jumped or shot and killed a Black man. Like I said, there are criminals and scum in every race, but there are more evidence of Whites still beating and killing Blacks at a larger scale than Black police officers. Chris Doner's manifesto already proved that a whole police department is guilty of targeting and racial profiling against Blacks. I'll take that in trade of beating shot and killed by a White police officer.

 

You're being incredibly disingenuous. I'm not disputing racism in the police force at all. I'm not saying the police don't racially profile people, and I admitted that police violence affects black people at a much greater rate than anyone else. What I am saying is police violence isn't necessarily racist, it's just how the police operate, regardless of what color they happen to be.

 

You say the police aren't racist but clearly admit to the racial profiling that goes on. How laughable are you? The only thing you've shown me was an atypical situation compared to the typical White police brutality we already discussed. You haven't shown me any evidence of why separation would be bad for Black people nor have you shown me any proof how integration has given Black people any empowerment either. I am curious why you even care what Blacks do anyway. What benefit do you get from us integrating? I already know the REAL answer, but amuse me with your cliche playbook argument. 


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#22

Posted 22 April 2014 - 10:46 PM Edited by ShootPeopleNotDope, 22 April 2014 - 10:50 PM.

 

 


You had to look so hard far back to 2009 and still couldn't show a group of Black officers that jumped or shot and killed a Black man. Like I said, there are criminals and scum in every race, but there are more evidence of Whites still beating and killing Blacks at a larger scale than Black police officers. Chris Doner's manifesto already proved that a whole police department is guilty of targeting and racial profiling against Blacks. I'll take that in trade of beating shot and killed by a White police officer.

 

You're being incredibly disingenuous. I'm not disputing racism in the police force at all. I'm not saying the police don't racially profile people, and I admitted that police violence affects black people at a much greater rate than anyone else. What I am saying is police violence isn't necessarily racist, it's just how the police operate, regardless of what color they happen to be.

 

You say the police aren't racist but clearly admit to the racial profiling that goes on. How laughable are you? The only thing you've shown me was an atypical situation compared to the typical White police brutality we already discussed. You haven't shown me any evidence of why separation would be bad for Black people nor have you shown me any proof how integration has given Black people any empowerment either. I am curious why you even care what Blacks do anyway. What benefit do you get from us integrating? I already know the REAL answer, but amuse me with your cliche playbook argument. 

 

You're intentionally twisting my words. I never said the police aren't racist, I said that police violence isn't always racially-motivated, hence why white people are beat/shot/killed by police too.  I'm sure you heard about Kelly Thomas, the homeless man who was beat to death by police in Fullerton, CA, and the cops walked. The motivation clearly wasn't race, as Kelly was white. Kelly's case is not unique, either.

 

How would separation be good for anyone? Wouldn't your society still have a capitalist mode of production, complete with classes and class antagonisms? Wouldn't there still be exploitation and alienation? Wouldn't there still be cops patrolling the streets, beating and shooting people? It's the same sh*t out of a different asshole.

 

Racial politics do nothing but detract from what is far more important, and far more divisive, and that is the issue of class. Furthermore, race is an outdated social construct that must be abolished.


Myron
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#23

Posted 22 April 2014 - 11:00 PM Edited by Myron, 22 April 2014 - 11:00 PM.

How do you propose the US be carved up? What happens when the 'whites' or 'blacks' suffer from overcrowding? What about boundary disputes? How would the economic systems work? What happens when a white convict crosses into the United States of Blackmerica? How do extradition laws work? How do laws work in relation to crime against nationals? Are whites given a fair trial. Where do the Asians go? What about mixed race people. Most importantly, WHERE TO THE NATIVE AMERICANS GO, MAN.

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#24

Posted 22 April 2014 - 11:05 PM Edited by Reaper Madness, 22 April 2014 - 11:12 PM.

 

 

 


You had to look so hard far back to 2009 and still couldn't show a group of Black officers that jumped or shot and killed a Black man. Like I said, there are criminals and scum in every race, but there are more evidence of Whites still beating and killing Blacks at a larger scale than Black police officers. Chris Doner's manifesto already proved that a whole police department is guilty of targeting and racial profiling against Blacks. I'll take that in trade of beating shot and killed by a White police officer.

 

You're being incredibly disingenuous. I'm not disputing racism in the police force at all. I'm not saying the police don't racially profile people, and I admitted that police violence affects black people at a much greater rate than anyone else. What I am saying is police violence isn't necessarily racist, it's just how the police operate, regardless of what color they happen to be.

 

You say the police aren't racist but clearly admit to the racial profiling that goes on. How laughable are you? The only thing you've shown me was an atypical situation compared to the typical White police brutality we already discussed. You haven't shown me any evidence of why separation would be bad for Black people nor have you shown me any proof how integration has given Black people any empowerment either. I am curious why you even care what Blacks do anyway. What benefit do you get from us integrating? I already know the REAL answer, but amuse me with your cliche playbook argument. 

 

You're intentionally twisting my words. I never said the police aren't racist, I said that police violence isn't always racially-motivated, hence why white people are beat/shot/killed by police too.  I'm sure you heard about Kelly Thomas, the homeless man who was beat to death by police in Fullerton, CA, and the cops walked. The motivation clearly wasn't race, as Kelly was white. Kelly's case is not unique, either.

 

How would separation be good for anyone? Wouldn't your society still have a capitalist mode of production, complete with classes and class antagonisms? Wouldn't there still be exploitation and alienation? Wouldn't there still be cops patrolling the streets, beating and shooting people? It's the same sh*t out of a different asshole.

 

Racial politics do nothing but detract from what is far more important, and far more divisive, and that is the issue of class. Furthermore, race is an outdated social construct that must be abolished.

 

Sure, we can also say the sky isn't always blue somewhere in America. We are talking about the norm here, and the norm is that police typically assume a Black man is up to no good or has a gun. I think I can speak as a Black man about that. I assume you are White and really have no say what goes on in our communities, only your hopeful, intellectually dishonest view that it doesn't happen majority of the time. However, we already disproved that with cases, murders, beatings and Chris Doner's manifesto. You couldn't even find more cases of Black police officers jumping or killing a Black man than White police officers doing the exact same thing. 

Kelly is atypical. Again you can't find me the norm of police brutality on Whites, you can only find me atypical situations. 

Again, I already showed you proof how a segregated Black society worked, yet all you can do assume what a segregated modern society can do. I can even say we are already segregated, except economically. Economic power was integrated to have Blacks at the bottom of the totem pole equipped with welfare and broken families. 

Everytime someone Black brings up racial empowerment, race should automatically be abolished even though there are still racial profiling, injustice, and economic depowerment going on towards Blacks everyday. Obviously the government and the majority of people don't see human beings, they see color, and that is where society is now. You can't just erase the history, close your ears, and wish it away. 

 

@Myron go to any China town and you'll have your answer. I was going to save that for later. Which one? Yes, so many you have to ask which one. Anyone. But Whites don't have a problem with that, only when Blacks start talking about it.


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#25

Posted 22 April 2014 - 11:17 PM

 

Sure, we can also say the sky isn't always blue somewhere in America. We are talking about the norm here, and the norm is that police typically assume a Black man is up to no good or has a gun. I think I can speak as a Black man about that. I assume you are White and really have no say what goes on in our communities, only your hopeful, intellectually dishonest view that it doesn't happen majority of the time. However, we already disproved that with cases, murders, beatings and Chris Doner's manifesto. You couldn't even find more cases of Black police officers jumping or killing a Black man than White police officers doing the exact same thing. 

 

 

Kelly is atypical. Again you can't find me the norm of police brutality on Whites, you can only find me atypical situations. 

Again, I already showed you proof how a segregated Black society worked, yet all you can do assume what a segregated modern society can do. I can even say we are already segregated, except economically. Economic power was integrated to have Blacks at the bottom of the totem pole equipped with welfare and broken families. 

Everytime someone Black brings up racial empowerment, race should automatically be abolished even though there are still racial profiling, injustice, and economic depowerment going on towards Blacks everyday. Obviously the government and the majority of people don't see human beings, they see color, and that is where society is now. You can't just erase the history, close your ears, and wish it away. 

 

If you can't tell by the Emma Goldman quote, or the avatar what this guy's likely views are on race inequality then you may be as dumb as your posts suggest. At least Malcom X read f*cking books and went through real sh*t. Oh and he also bled and died for his cause, rather than arguing with largely white middle class people. On a forum about a game series. Made by white people.

 

@Myron go to any China town and you'll have your answer.

 

Chinatowns don't have separate social, economic or legal systems. They're also TOWNS which fall under the district of the city in which they are in. If you think Chinatowns are perfect examples of segregation then I have no words.

 

Let's look at other attempts at state segregation though: South Africa, Northern Ireland, Israel, Germany circa 1930s the US, Rhodesia.

 

I'd like to point out that in just about every case of white/black segregation, the black man has been the white man's kicking ball. Considering that white men in the US largely own the means of production, you'd be jolly well f*cked in any case. Even igoring that, do you think the big bad white man is going to let the black man keep his power?

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Reaper Madness
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#26

Posted 22 April 2014 - 11:25 PM

 

 

Sure, we can also say the sky isn't always blue somewhere in America. We are talking about the norm here, and the norm is that police typically assume a Black man is up to no good or has a gun. I think I can speak as a Black man about that. I assume you are White and really have no say what goes on in our communities, only your hopeful, intellectually dishonest view that it doesn't happen majority of the time. However, we already disproved that with cases, murders, beatings and Chris Doner's manifesto. You couldn't even find more cases of Black police officers jumping or killing a Black man than White police officers doing the exact same thing. 

 

 

Kelly is atypical. Again you can't find me the norm of police brutality on Whites, you can only find me atypical situations. 

Again, I already showed you proof how a segregated Black society worked, yet all you can do assume what a segregated modern society can do. I can even say we are already segregated, except economically. Economic power was integrated to have Blacks at the bottom of the totem pole equipped with welfare and broken families. 

Everytime someone Black brings up racial empowerment, race should automatically be abolished even though there are still racial profiling, injustice, and economic depowerment going on towards Blacks everyday. Obviously the government and the majority of people don't see human beings, they see color, and that is where society is now. You can't just erase the history, close your ears, and wish it away. 

 

If you can't tell by the Emma Goldman quote, or the avatar what this guy's likely views are on race inequality then you may be as dumb as your posts suggest. At least Malcom X read f*cking books and went through real sh*t. Oh and he also bled and died for his cause, rather than arguing with largely white middle class people. On a forum about a game series. Made by white people.

 

 

 

@Myron go to any China town and you'll have your answer.

 

Chinatowns don't have separate social, economic or legal systems. They're also TOWNS which fall under the district of the city in which they are in. If you think Chinatowns are perfect examples of segregation then I have no words.

 

Let's look at other attempts at state segregation though: South Africa, Northern Ireland, Israel, Germany circa 1930s the US, Rhodesia.

 

I'd like to point out that in just about every case of white/black segregation, the black man has been the white man's kicking ball. Considering that white men in the US largely own the means of production, you'd be jolly well f*cked in any case. Even igoring that, do you think the big bad white man is going to let the black man keep his power?

 

So the idiot, can't even attack my points so he attacked my character which makes the rest of what you say invalid. Come back when you mature. Malcom x died at 30, I'm 17 years old. I have a long ways to go before I have my own broadcast and audience but you have a long way to go to grow the f*ck up.


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#27

Posted 22 April 2014 - 11:28 PM

So the idiot, can't even attack my points so he attacked my character which makes the rest of what you say invalid. Come back when you mature. Malcom x died at 30, I'm 17 years old. I have a long ways to go before I have my own broadcast and audience but you have a long way to go to grow the f*ck up.

I already addressed your ridiculous Chinatown comparison. Anyway if you are 17, I'll at least hope that you do decide to learn to read some sh*t and drop this hilarious ideology.

 

Anyway if you could address my points then that would be great.


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#28

Posted 22 April 2014 - 11:30 PM

 

So the idiot, can't even attack my points so he attacked my character which makes the rest of what you say invalid. Come back when you mature. Malcom x died at 30, I'm 17 years old. I have a long ways to go before I have my own broadcast and audience but you have a long way to go to grow the f*ck up.

I already addressed your ridiculous Chinatown comparison. Anyway if you are 17, I'll at least hope that you do decide to learn to read some sh*t and drop this hilarious ideology.

 

Anyway if you could address my points then that would be great.

 

Like I said, once you start bashing my character that's when everything you say becomes invalid. Only a child does that in a debate. I will always be Black First whether you agree with it or not, I don't quite frankly give a damn, sir. Next.


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#29

Posted 22 April 2014 - 11:34 PM

Like I said, once you start bashing my character that's when everything you say becomes invalid. Only a child does that in a debate. I will always be Black First whether you agree with it or not, I don't quite frankly give a damn, sir. Next.

No sweetheart, that's not how this works. I mean frankly all one can do is attack your character, because you don't really have any substance. Ignoring that, my questions are valid regardless of whether or not I'm attacking your character. I could get a bunch of people to repeat my questions without attacking your character if you want, but I doubt you would reply to them anyway.


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#30

Posted 22 April 2014 - 11:41 PM

 

Like I said, once you start bashing my character that's when everything you say becomes invalid. Only a child does that in a debate. I will always be Black First whether you agree with it or not, I don't quite frankly give a damn, sir. Next.

No sweetheart, that's not how this works. I mean frankly all one can do is attack your character, because you don't really have any substance. Ignoring that, my questions are valid regardless of whether or not I'm attacking your character. I could get a bunch of people to repeat my questions without attacking your character if you want, but I doubt you would reply to them anyway.

 

I'll reply, just not to children. But this is hilarious, because Blacks don't need Whites to separate. We don't need you to practice group economics, and now you guys are mad. Awwww. So homosexual, assuming you are because of the sweetheart line, it doesn't matter what you think I'm doing on a gaming forum. I do this on a lot of forums to know what kind of backward thinking I'm dealing with and I have a lot more Black people agreeing with me than you might think. So much for an idiotic philosophy. Probably because soon, you'll be on the losing end of the stick of it.





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