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The Lost but not Forgotten *SPOILERS*

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  • Orto_Dogge


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Posted 08 April 2014 - 06:34 PM Edited by Orto_Dogge, 08 April 2014 - 09:41 PM.

Hi everyone. I know this topic was brought up like a lot, but today I came up with the idea that I must share with you, fine people. It's about your favourite theory about Jim in TLAD and your favourite complain about The Lost in GTA V. I have to aware you, that the text below consists major and terrible spoilers, so please, be alert.


So, just like everyone in this section, I was deeply touched by the you-know-what with Johnny Klebitz in GTA V. It wasn't just the event itself, it was the poor writing and terrible retcons. It's obvious for me, that the original biker gang for GTA V were always Angels of Death, but they were changed later in development just because of fancy idea of turning previous protagonist gang into the antagonist gang. That's the reason why the little destroyed gang from the East Coast became large and prosperous gang on the West Coast. But this topic was discussed many times before, so I want to mention another one.


It's conspiracy theory about Jim you might be familiar with thanks to Jvaz615 and his beautiful topic. If you didn't read it, please, do, because my point is largely based on the theory he described so well. So, according to this theory, Jim is alive and falsified his death by setting up notorious fat bald biker and running away from Liberty City with two million dollars from the diamond deal. The theory strengthened by his own words of him being thinking type of maniac, when it comes to decision between death and ability to help your family. My guess, that in the end he chose family.


So, what's so beautiful in my idea, is that it justifies Rockstar's poor writing and put an additional sense to the death of Johnny Klebitz by the hands of Trevor. I know Rockstar too well to wait for special DLC with the storyline I'll write below, but if there will be one, I want it to be called "The Lost but not Forgotten" to emphasize The Lost's way of saying RIP and grief of TLAD fanbase, which seems to be forgotten at the moment.


I think that after the events of The Lost and Damned, at some point, Johnny finally decided to leave Liberty City with all its bad memories. Terry supports the decision, since he's dealing weapons and meth, the both business opportunities were taken by The Lost in San Andreas. I also guess, that the farm in Grapeseed where Trevor found Terry and Clay is actually the farm of Terry's family, which he mentioned during friendship activities. So, Ashley was brough along, since she always wanted to ride with Johnny into the sunset, but Johnny's opinion on their future relationships was still sceptical. Angus couldn't ride into the sunset and didn't come along, just like he said in his first e-mail to Johnny in TLAD. Everything is pretty clear and obvious yet, right?


Then, remaining members of The Lost, the best fighters in small numbers (since Johnny doesn't need numbers, he needs brothers) arrived to San Andreas. The club probably started dealing weapons with Marabunta Grande, since it is the only latin gang that is not in bad terms with the Lost during events of GTA V, and since some Salvadorian partners were mentioned by Angus during TLAD multiplayer. Rivalry with Angels of Death is the matter of time, since they own West Coast and they are blood enemies of the club. Obviously, Johnny and his brothers defeat AoD easily in the brave and effective manner of the protagonist's gang. So, the AoD became history in the Southern San Andreas, just like random biker in GTA V said. The Lost took over abandoned airfield, took over trailer park (which explains skulls graffiti there, remained from Angels of Death) and took over all other AoD's territories.


Then conspiracy theory comes to the scene. Johnny randomly encounters Jim, living with his family in the big house. The dilemma is very similar and almost identical to the dilemma between Michael and Trevor. The difference is, that Johnny's in his prime. He just defeated club's greatest enemy. He sticks to his brothers and principles to the end. And, unlike Trevor, he has the strength to kill Jim. He kills his best friend. He went further than Trevor, he was stronger than Trevor and that's the exactly reason, why later he became weaker and fell lower.


After killing his best friend, Johnny returns to his home only to find there Ahsley, who is there for him. In the similar manner to GTA: San Andreas, when crackhead girlfriend of Sweet seduced him to addiction, Ashley finally catches Johnny in the situation bad enough to break him. They are getting high and having sex. The fall of Johnny Klebitz has begun.


So, there's the point. Trevor is not stronger than Johnny. He's weaker, he's less principal and that's why he was able to kill him. He never was the man, who can kill his best friend, while Johnny was the man of his word. And Johnny suffered for this. Everything Rockstar did is occasionally explained and justified. It's not Rockstar oversight, it's Johnny's punishment for making a hard decision.


Since there never will be DLC about The Lost, everything I wrote is a new canon for me. And I just wanted to share it with you. Because maybe you need it.


And if you're not — I guess you can always replay "Mr. Philips".

  • Jvaz615 likes this

  • Peachrocks


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Posted 09 April 2014 - 02:36 AM

There is no way Johnny would kill Jim. He could barely bring himself to kill Billy who had caused him a lot of grief for extremely trivial reasons. Johnny would be furious but kill him? No, especially not if Jim explained the reasons, reasons which Johnny himself said to Jim. Which is why in my much older thread of this now famous conspiracy if Johnny and Jim were to meet it'd be just prior to Johnny dying hence creating a poetic theme of sorts that Trevor and Johnny had been visited by ghosts of the past.

Further two million isn't a lot these days. Enough to make a new life on sure but certainly not enough to secure him and Jackie and his kid for life. Jim would not have the big house like Michael, he'd be struggling to keep him and his family afloat and would have difficulty fitting into the society he rebelled against for so long. That's why in my own thread I placed him in North Yankton, to actually use it for one and to give that whole distant vibe.

Interesting reference to the farm owned by Terry's family, didn't catch that one in gta v. Though seeing how The Lost were treated in gta V, I bet it's a massive coincidence.
  • B Dawg, HaythamKenway and Niobium like this

  • Orto_Dogge


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Posted 15 April 2014 - 03:27 PM

With all due respect, Peachrock, this is not The Best Fanfic Contest, this is attempt to explain poor Rockstar's plot twist by using their own previous plot twists. I don't actually care where is the best home for Jimmy Fitz: I put him in Los Santos because it makes sense for the story. There is no point in "Jim would go to North Yankton" or "Jim would go to Vice City". You can live in any city with any amount of money, especially when it's two million dollars.


I personally agree with you, that it's hard to believe, that Johnny would be able to kill Jim. But it's hard to believe, that he would die under Trevor's stomps either, so we have to choose. Unlike Trevor, Johnny never does anything he wants. He does things, that other people or his own moral code tell him to do. That's why in the end of day he may be able to kill his best friend, since this best friend is traitor and thief for his own club and brothers. Please, keep in mind, that Johnny killed the most of his own brothers, than any other GTA protagonist. In case of Brian and his faction there was also a place for jokes for him.


Oh, and by the way, sad as it is, but Grapeseed farm is not Terry's. I checked the information and Terry says during friendship activities, that there are more western places, that his farm. So it's obviously not West Coast or San Andreas. What a tragedy, actually. :)

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