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Do you agree with R* and their ridiculous excuse? 3D and HD universe..

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Ben73
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#121

Posted 05 April 2014 - 07:52 AM

So I haven't read every single post in the thread, but I'm getting teh vibe that people are upset because Lazlow and Love fist are in both 'universes' but Tommy and CJ and the rest arn't?

 

For Christs sake stop living in the past. I would not enjoy V any more if Vercetti or CJ just randomly rocked up to keep a few die hard fans happy, I would hate that.

They are all great character's in their own game, but if you wanna see CJ, play San Andreas.

 

I don't think any main characters should be featured in different games. More background characters, then sweet no worries.

 

I think it's funny that Lazlow was a die hard rocker in the 80's with the whole "Rock music 4 life" attitude. Now he is hosting a terrible talent show, which seam to be so popular these days, and nothing like proper rock and roll.

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Nz_fool
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#122

Posted 05 April 2014 - 08:57 AM

Ben73: Yes backround characters would be cool, no main. The photos I put up are just for reference. Somebody like Ken Rosenburg, or Donald Love would play a nice part in Los Santos

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Mr. Boredom 1603
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#123

Posted 05 April 2014 - 09:18 AM Edited by gta3masta5000, 05 April 2014 - 09:42 AM.

If character had physical form in the game then he's gone for good. 

If that's how it is then I say bring back Ma Cipriani. We never, EVER see any part of her.

Ok, I'll put this in the way that GameTheorists would.
If you're playing Mario and you die, you still play Mario, but it's a completely different Mario in a completely different universe. Therefore, the 3D and HD eras are not connected (even with the GTA IV easter egg hinting towards the deaths of all 3D era protags...). Get it now? I hate it too but oh well. Get the f*ck over it people.

Ash_735
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#124

Posted 05 April 2014 - 09:50 AM Edited by Ash_735, 05 April 2014 - 10:02 AM.

Here's how I see it:

There's three universes currently.

Each with their own style.

Now, when it comes to characters:

- If a character appears in another Universe in their old universe state (Madd Dogg, Donald Love, OG Loc, CJ on Fruntalot), it's an Easter Egg
- If a character appears in another universe but now looks different and acts different to how they were (and have altered stories) that's simply THAT universes version of the character

What does that mean, well Rockstar CAN bring anyone back, but as stated, they would be altered, changed somehow to fit this universe, Lazlow had some changes, Fernando had a couple of huge changes, Willie looks nothing like he did in VC and has a different VA, etc.

Same way El Burro existed in both 2D and 3D era, he appeared in person in the 2D era, but in the 3D era he was only a phone contact, voiced by a different person, but still implied that he's the gang leader of The Diablos (also, he was changed here as El Burro was in the CITY of San Andreas in the 2D era).

What people shouldn't expect, which is a big thing that those of us who can follow this get annoyed at, characters won't cross over EXACT, people want CJ, people want Tommy, but for theme to appear they would have to be altered and changed to be re-visioned in the new universe. Rockstar implied that in the HD era, Grove Street was lost because that set gave it up and let the Ballas take over, so there's a 50/50 chance here that CJ is either dead here, or he's now some pussy living away from the gang life that he couldn't defend in the past.

PS: Some people seem to think I'm getting angry about this or something? Is it because I do some words in capitals? I realise that may come across as me randomly shouting but I do that to just make a point on that word or sentence following, I'm really not screaming at the computer, haha.

edit:
PPS: And I keep bringing up Batman as that's like the perfect mainstream example of this being done, Batman has like 50 different universes, maybe more at this point which play into all tropes that GTA has barely even touched on. An example someone brought up earlier about Voice Actors, again, Kevin Conroy and Mark Hamil voice Bruce Wayne/Batman and The Joker in TWO Universes, the Animated Series Universe and the Arkham Universe. To go one step further, both of those universe have the same Lead Writer, Paul Dini.

edit 2:
PPPS: I guess being a bit of a comic book geek helps my side a bit, like seriously guys, the GTA Universes is nothing compared to the spider web that is the universe of Batman, Marvel and Doctor Who. :p

Andreas
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#125

Posted 05 April 2014 - 10:48 AM Edited by Andreas, 05 April 2014 - 10:50 AM.

What doesn't make sense is how Donald Love is mentioned in the Liberty Tree in gta4 if it's supposed to be a separate universe

What doesn't make sense is how lazlow and fernando are still there of its "separate universes"

It does make sense, because going by Rockstar's logic, a different universe doesn't prevent characters from being mentioned.

For example, El Burro was a character in the original GTA but he's also in GTA III, though he never appeared there physically. He also appeared in an artwork of GTA IV, if I remember correctly, and was a minor character in GTA Chinatown Wars. The explanation for this is simple: the character was probably the same person in GTA1 and III, but the fact that we don't know how he looks like in-game in the latter supports Rockstars logic; characters can co-exist in multiple universes, just not physically. El Burro in CTW was apparently a different person than in the other two games; he was clearly younger, thinner and has hair as opposed to the El Burro in the original game and GTA III.

The same goes for Donald Love. He was an important character in III and we can see him in a cut-scene in Vice City, which makes sense since both games are in the same universe. He was mentioned in the Liberty Tree in IV, but he never appeared physically in the game. Rockstar did by no means contradict themselves on that one. Brands, radio-stations, et cetera can co-exist in all universes, by the way.

BLOOD-MOND
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#126

Posted 05 April 2014 - 11:19 AM Edited by Blood-Is-in-Diamond, 05 April 2014 - 11:20 AM.

Ahh I see you're taking the "f*ck logic IM RIGHT" stance here. Well I think we can end this here.

If anyone is saying "f*ck logic" its Rockstar for not keeping the 3D and HD era characters separate.
You don't think that the odd cross over of certain things from the 3D and 2D era to HD are purely for the sake of fan service and to pay homage, adding to the superficial lore GTA has.

Rockstar have done well to differentiate the 3 'eras' allowing them to reinvent the series with each hardware leap but by allowing certain parts of the series to continue throughout; such as the series' legacy of in game branding and pop culture, the series has gained a recognisable identity.

Though Rockstar like to f*ck with continuity as well. I was pissed when I saw Lazlow in person and given a major role in V.

Great Comment bro :)

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#127

Posted 05 April 2014 - 02:36 PM

RockStar gave you a simple excuse.

 

The truth is obvious and no one seems to see it. The budget for voice acting is getting tighter. In GTAIII we had big names. Frank Vincent and Micheal Madsen.

 

Then in Vice City they paid I imagine a great deal of money to have some of Hollywoods best actors. They went all out for this title.

 

In San Andreas they didn't go all out as much, but still had many great Hollywood voices. Samuel Jackson, Sean Penn yet they didn't have to pay Young Maylay nearly as much to voice the main character CJ.

 

GTA4 and GTAV has mostly TV show actors, because newer GTA games have longer scripts and RockStar simply cannot afford to pay top HollyWood actors the money to do the voices.

 

That's the bottom line. It is what it is. Tommy Vercetti is voiced by Ray Liotta. He's expensive to hire and RockStar would rather hire a cheaper actor to do voices in a long script.

 

If RockStar brought Tommy Vercetti back and hired a B list actor to voice Him would you accept this?


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#128

Posted 05 April 2014 - 04:30 PM

I was so pissed when the Liberty City in GTA3 looked NOTHING like the Liberty City from GTA1, it was so bullsh*t...and the main character from 1 was so much more developed than Claude, they should've kept him!!

Tilemaxx
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#129

Posted 05 April 2014 - 04:39 PM

Lazlow is a real person so they created a "universe paradox". He can exist within different universes because... they chose to do so. It's the exception to the rule. I think they stated in a previous Q&A, that characters from 3D universe can exist inside the HD universe but only in the form of easter egg, you can't interact with them because technically, they are all "dead". They never existed inside the HD universe. You will hear references for Niko in GTA V, but you won't hear about CJ or Tommy. They simply don't exist. They never existed in the HD universe.


BLOOD-MOND
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#130

Posted 05 April 2014 - 04:49 PM Edited by Blood-Is-in-Diamond, 05 April 2014 - 04:57 PM.

I was so pissed when the Liberty City in GTA3 looked NOTHING like the Liberty City from GTA1, it was so bullsh*t...and the main character from 1 was so much more developed than Claude, they should've kept him!!

Lol :lol: What GTA with it Legendary 3rd Main Installment,GTA3 (2001)?.Just Like Tekken and Street Figher which became Groundbreaking with that 2nd/3rd try,GTA become Groundbreaking with it 3rd game.

@Tilemaxx
True here is it (quote)"Rockstar: The universes are the worlds interpreted at different definitions, 2D, 3D and high definition, so we felt brands and radio / back ground characters would exist in
both, but 3 dimensional characters would not."

FranklinDeRoosevelt
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#131

Posted 05 April 2014 - 05:23 PM Edited by FranklinDeRoosevelt, 05 April 2014 - 05:23 PM.

Budget problem is the second reason why they are doing this. Hollywood actors are greedy motherf*ckers who take opportunities like this and sh*t on the company when it comes to money. Can you blame Rockstar for that? Why would you want to pay Ray Liotta millions just for voice acting in a game? Forget about how we was in legendary films like Goodfellas, he is still a human and shouldn't take advantage of his fame. Samuel L Jackson is another c*nt, and Young Maylay was the only guy who didn't ask for as much as they did, because he appreciates what they asked him to do. Michael Jackson's producers asked for so much money to Rockstar to put their music in Vice City, again they are c*nts. It's not Rockstar's fault they had to deal with mofo's like them. Oh and I forgot about Michael Madsen.


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#132

Posted 05 April 2014 - 05:25 PM

I don't blame them for not bringing them back. Fresh faces are more interesting.
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#133

Posted 05 April 2014 - 05:32 PM

Lazlow is coming back, because he was never see in person in any previous GTA. Same can apply to Fernando Martinez and any other radio/mentioned only/voice only character. One of the reason why Willie from Love Fist is seen in GTA V is that he was not seen in VC. Simple as that. 


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#134

Posted 05 April 2014 - 05:32 PM Edited by williamcampbell, 05 April 2014 - 05:37 PM.

Why was it that these sort of threads never popped up after the release of IV? It's was known the moment we saw a difference between III LC and IV LC, but nobody complained "Why the f*ck is Claude?" or "Where the f*ck is Toni?"

It seems here that if Rockstar screws with SA it hits closer to home than any other GTA. And I fail to understand why.

 

GTA: SA started a generation of fanboys with an attitude that it's only comparable to the metaphors cult. Since the jump from Vice City to SA was so "big", it affected a number of people. Notice how everything is compared to SA nowadays: "as big as SA", "options like CJ had" and so on. 

 

I think it has to do with the "zomg im gangsta so koolz dunt mess with me yo okayz gunna shoot yo face" thematic, which for some reason always cause this kind of commotion between kids. After all, it's cool to hang with the "attitude" guys when you're 12 and developing your personality (or the lack of it). 

 

I thank Rockstar for forgetting about it and moving on, even if it means letting go of better characters. Also, the HD universe is much more darker (some would say realistic). There's no place for the general Scarface-like thematic or "from hood to world" in this universe. It seems some still can't see this. As much as I love Tommy, Claude, etc, I simply have to recognize that they wouldn't work in GTA IV/V/next title(s). They were made from a different base and the 3D games followed a different "beat". It was a very wise decision to leave old characters in the past when they opted for a brand new world/universe. No wonder Rockstar has been on the business for so long with so much success - they know what they're doing and you don't, kids. It's not about CJ. 

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UtterTehSEAL
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#135

Posted 05 April 2014 - 06:46 PM

R* has said multiple times pop culture things (such as bands, movies, Lazlow.) All carry over from universe to universe however characters and events do not. Simple as that. Get over it.


Vanzant
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#136

Posted 05 April 2014 - 08:14 PM

Budget problem is the second reason why they are doing this. Hollywood actors are greedy motherf*ckers who take opportunities like this and sh*t on the company when it comes to money. Can you blame Rockstar for that? Why would you want to pay Ray Liotta millions just for voice acting in a game? Forget about how we was in legendary films like Goodfellas, he is still a human and shouldn't take advantage of his fame. Samuel L Jackson is another c*nt, and Young Maylay was the only guy who didn't ask for as much as they did, because he appreciates what they asked him to do. Michael Jackson's producers asked for so much money to Rockstar to put their music in Vice City, again they are c*nts. It's not Rockstar's fault they had to deal with mofo's like them. Oh and I forgot about Michael Madsen.

 

 

That isn't greed, that's business. Samuel L Jackson supposedly makes around $20,000 per hour to do voice acting, not because of greed, but because he's Samuel f*cking Jackson. Young Maylay is a nobody who doesn't have a leg to stand on when it comes to salary.

 

As far as Ray Liotta goes, He's a busy guy, just check His IMDB profile. He won't be voicing any GTA character any time soon.


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#137

Posted 05 April 2014 - 11:57 PM Edited by FranklinDeRoosevelt, 05 April 2014 - 11:58 PM.

So what if it's business? It's greed, except the word has been twisted nowadays. And so f*cking what if he's Samuel L Jackson, he isn't special. He's just a popular human being. What's funny is he probably doesn't decide anything himself, like a little baby he relies on his own crew. He doesn't even make half the decisions he needs to.

 

Young Maylay was unknown yes. But is the difference between him and every other guy who was voice acting? None. He wasn't popular, that's all. He could have asked for a sh*tload of money if he wanted too, but he didn't because he has brains and isn't as greedy as those dumb hollywood inbreds.

 

Also, I never said anything about Ray Liotta being in GTA any time soon or at all.


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#138

Posted 06 April 2014 - 02:26 AM

R* has said multiple times pop culture things (such as bands, movies, Lazlow.) All carry over from universe to universe however characters and events do not. Simple as that. Get over it.

They said LCS wouldn't release for PS2.  It did.  They said VCS wouldn't release for PS2.  It did.  They said old characters wouldn't carry over.  They did.  YOU get over it.


Ahh I see you're taking the "f*ck logic IM RIGHT" stance here. Well I think we can end this here.

Because by YOUR idea of logic somebody who ages 29 years and gets a haircut isn't the same person.


BLOOD-MOND
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#139

Posted 06 April 2014 - 02:34 AM Edited by Blood-Is-in-Diamond, 06 April 2014 - 02:35 AM.


R* has said multiple times pop culture things (such as bands, movies, Lazlow.) All carry over from universe to universe however characters and events do not. Simple as that. Get over it.

They said LCS wouldn't release for PS2.  It did.  They said VCS wouldn't release for PS2.  It did.  They said old characters wouldn't carry over.  They did.  YOU get over it.

Ahh I see you're taking the "f*ck logic IM RIGHT" stance here. Well I think we can end this here.

Because by YOUR idea of logic somebody who ages 29 years and gets a haircut isn't the same person.


What does the PS2 Ports of LCS and VCS got to do with the topic?lol what a lame-ass examples,and as many people have said the 3 Universes are Separate and it also Official from R* there is not me or you or anyone else can do about that,hence the Multiverse Module that GTA use is a great one and a perfect module instead of Total Reboots cough (Tomb Raider,DMC,Mortal Kombat)cough.

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#140

Posted 07 April 2014 - 01:34 AM Edited by ChrisMathers3501, 07 April 2014 - 01:35 AM.

My mention of the Liberty and Vice City Stories games had to do with the fact that just because Rockstar says something doesn't mean it's true.  They said they'd never make those games for the PS2 and they did it anyway.  They also said they would never put characters from older games in their HD era games.  Again, this turned out to be false.

 

All I'm saying is that just because Rockstar are the best, that doesn't mean you shouldn't take what they have to say with a grain of salt.


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#141

Posted 07 April 2014 - 02:06 AM

So what if it's business? It's greed, except the word has been twisted nowadays. And so f*cking what if he's Samuel L Jackson, he isn't special. He's just a popular human being. What's funny is he probably doesn't decide anything himself, like a little baby he relies on his own crew. He doesn't even make half the decisions he needs to.

 

Young Maylay was unknown yes. But is the difference between him and every other guy who was voice acting? None. He wasn't popular, that's all. He could have asked for a sh*tload of money if he wanted too, but he didn't because he has brains and isn't as greedy as those dumb hollywood inbreds.

 

Also, I never said anything about Ray Liotta being in GTA any time soon or at all.

 

Exactly as you said. Samuel Jackson is a popular human being with a voice that's worth a sign on for 20 Million. You are right about one thing, most of the salary calculations comes from an actors Agent. They are the one's who makes the deals.

 

Young Maylay took the salary he was given which I imagine ran about an average of $50-$120 per working hour. He was in no position at all to ask for more. He's like I said, a nobody. If they wanted Samuel L Jackson to voice CJ, that would cost RockStar easily $20,000 per working hour.

 

On the subject of greed as you call it. First of all, it takes hours to record dialog. Second it costs even more money for the face mapping. Rockstar cannot afford to tie up big Hollywood actors for this kind of work. Even if they could, that's taking money away from everyone else who's working on a Grand Theft Auto project.

 

I know, you didn't mention Ray Liotta. I did. In my opening argument. He's the one who plays the notorious character the fans want. The fact is he's big bucks now to have.

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Ss4gogeta0
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#142

Posted 07 April 2014 - 04:42 AM

edit 2:

PPPS: I guess being a bit of a comic book geek helps my side a bit, like seriously guys, the GTA Universes is nothing compared to the spider web that is the universe of Batman, Marvel and Doctor Who. :p

Deaths Head II vs Deadpool :| Nuff Said...

 

 

also Iggy Vanzant. Stop being a prick by over obsessing on SLJ... Voice Impersonators are a dime a dozen... even the really good ones would go for $50 - $100 a session.;.. so stop trying to make it seem like it would be the end all be all...


freedom
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#143

Posted 07 April 2014 - 05:56 PM Edited by freedom, 07 April 2014 - 05:58 PM.

I mean, Willy is not the same Willy from Vice City? Even though he looks and sounds the exact same and has the same voice actor? What?


Willy was in Vice City, he was in the rigged Limo, and Tommy saved him. 30 years later, he's in Whisky a Go Go in Los Santos 2013. Why would that be so hard to accept? It's years later and there is no need to mention tommy so he's not mentioned. You dont need it to be an entire different universe to understand why tommy isnt there. Willy in V is LITERALLY like having Jim Carrey as the Riddler in the Nolan films, because that's exactly what happened here. Same actor and everything. It's the same guy.

 

 

oh my god...  how are you having so much difficulty understanding this concept.... :panic:

 

Jim Carrey could have LITERALLY been the The Riddler in Nolans films, but that would NOT mean it would have been canonical with prior films.

 

Tommy, Claude & CJ, as well all of Love Fist, could have been GTA V, but that would NOT mean it would have been canonical with the prior games.


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#144

Posted 07 April 2014 - 06:03 PM

All I know is; we need Maccer back. And we need him back very soon. 

 

If there's a Las Venturas or San Fierro DLC of any kind, he needs to make an appearance. 

 

Spoiler

 

f*cking raspberries. 


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#145

Posted 07 April 2014 - 06:26 PM

Gaiz grove st is cj terf, no wai ballaz took it in gta V cuz cj gang bang them in san andreuz and he stolez they huudz an becum king uv san andreuz


What people here sound like

DaveGrimes96
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#146

Posted 07 April 2014 - 06:30 PM

Gaiz grove st is cj terf, no wai ballaz took it in gta V cuz cj gang bang them in san andreuz and he stolez they huudz an becum king uv san andreuz


What people here sound like

no that's how you sound


Acetaminophen
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#147

Posted 07 April 2014 - 06:47 PM

GTA 4 was a reboot that is it. They can add whatever characters from past games they want. It's not that hard to understand. 


BLOOD-MOND
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#148

Posted 07 April 2014 - 08:00 PM

GTA 4 was a reboot that is it. They can add whatever characters from past games they want. It's not that hard to understand. 


Exactly,infact III (2001) rebooted the franchise into 3D and IV (2008) did it with HD.Like i said before it not a total reboot like Tomb Raider,DMC,Mortal Kombat,Thief...but it a Multiverse Module style (Comic Books/Marvel).
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Zee
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#149

Posted 07 April 2014 - 08:59 PM

I mean, Willy is not the same Willy from Vice City? Even though he looks and sounds the exact same and has the same voice actor? What?

Willy was in Vice City, he was in the rigged Limo, and Tommy saved him. 30 years later, he's in Whisky a Go Go in Los Santos 2013. Why would that be so hard to accept? It's years later and there is no need to mention tommy so he's not mentioned. You dont need it to be an entire different universe to understand why tommy isnt there. Willy in V is LITERALLY like having Jim Carrey as the Riddler in the Nolan films, because that's exactly what happened here. Same actor and everything. It's the same guy.

 
 
oh my god...  how are you having so much difficulty understanding this concept.... :panic:
 
Jim Carrey could have LITERALLY been the The Riddler in Nolans films, but that would NOT mean it would have been canonical with prior films.
 
Tommy, Claude & CJ, as well all of Love Fist, could have been GTA V, but that would NOT mean it would have been canonical with the prior games.

Says who?

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#150

Posted 07 April 2014 - 09:10 PM

 

Gaiz grove st is cj terf, no wai ballaz took it in gta V cuz cj gang bang them in san andreuz and he stolez they huudz an becum king uv san andreuz


What people here sound like

no that's how you sound

 

How so? Im the one who agrees with Ash because I too used to read comic books and am familiar with the whole alternate universe stuff (Marvel Zombies/Revolutionary War/etc) so yea... Im used to this sort of thing... sh*t I am even developing a game as an alternate interpretation of this one zombie game I made...





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