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Do you agree with R* and their ridiculous excuse? 3D and HD universe..

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freedom
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#61

Posted 03 April 2014 - 08:37 PM

It's complete bollocks. It basically just boils down to "Its all the same universe we just pick and choose who we want to bring back and not bring back."

The whole "universe" nonsense was just dreamt up in an attempt to explain why the cities look so different.

As far as I'm concerned, it's all the same universe.

 

 

It's not "bollocks" at all. It's a straight forward creative descision, enabling the creators to disregard as much or as little of the narritive canon as they wish. I honestly don't undertstand how some people having so much trouble grasping & accepting this.

 

I mean, you can imagine it as all being in the same universe if you want, just as one could regard Tim Burton & Joel Schumacher's Batman films as being part of the same universe as Chris Nolan's Batman trilogy. But that doesn't mean it makes any sense, nor is it part of the creators intent.


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#62

Posted 03 April 2014 - 08:45 PM

Today I learned "you're " a fa**ot! WOW!

 

 

As if your weak opening arguments weren't enough, you managed to dump all credibility down the drain with this post. Nice. 


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#63

Posted 03 April 2014 - 09:03 PM

Let R* do whatever they want, it's their franchise.

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#64

Posted 04 April 2014 - 12:11 AM Edited by Zee, 04 April 2014 - 12:13 AM.


It's complete bollocks. It basically just boils down to "Its all the same universe we just pick and choose who we want to bring back and not bring back."

The whole "universe" nonsense was just dreamt up in an attempt to explain why the cities look so different.

As far as I'm concerned, it's all the same universe.

 
 
It's not "bollocks" at all. It's a straight forward creative descision, enabling the creators to disregard as much or as little of the narritive canon as they wish. I honestly don't undertstand how some people having so much trouble grasping & accepting this.
 
I mean, you can imagine it as all being in the same universe if you want, just as one could regard Tim Burton & Joel Schumacher's Batman films as being part of the same universe as Chris Nolan's Batman trilogy. But that doesn't mean it makes any sense, nor is it part of the creators intent.
That would make sense if it were different people making the games. But its still Dan and Sam Houser writing these things.

What doesn't make sense is how Donald Love is mentioned in the Liberty Tree in gta4 if it's supposed to be a separate universe

What doesn't make sense is how lazlow and fernando are still there of its "separate universes"

The whole "separate universes" thing is just to shut up the fanboys who would incessantly echo "Bring back tommy! Bring back CJ!" because R* want to move on,

As far as creator intent, Dan Houser even specifically said "Packie is not going to be in gta5" so their word is to be taken with grain of salt.

I can accept that CJ and Franklin are from the same city, and that the city just looks different for artistic reasons and leave it at that. Time passes and people change, the same guys banging in LS in 2013 would not be the same guys from 1992, hence CJ would have nothing to do with Franklin and would never be seen. I can accept that a hell of a lot better than all the "universes" stuff.
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#65

Posted 04 April 2014 - 12:18 AM

 

The whole "separate universes" thing is just to shut up the fanboys who would incessantly echo "Bring back tommy! Bring back CJ!" because R* want to move on,

 

 

Of course it is. It's a stock answer. 

 

It's like saying 'Star Wars physics' or 'A wizard did it'.


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#66

Posted 04 April 2014 - 12:19 AM

Stop trying to complicate things and let them do what they want with their games.

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#67

Posted 04 April 2014 - 12:33 AM

Lazlow and Fernando are different to their 3D era versions though. I've already pointed out how Lazlow is different, Fernando has a huge difference in this era, he's a shamed schoolteacher who is on the sexual offenders list and got into radio after that. There was no "Fernando's New Beginnings" in the HD era, he wasn't exposed as a fraud and just someone pretending.

Characters can exist in multiple universes but there will be something different, again most basic way to put it would be to just think of it as a comic book. Many different universes.

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#68

Posted 04 April 2014 - 12:53 AM Edited by Hallgarth, 04 April 2014 - 12:54 AM.

People are reading too far into this different universes thing. There are no specific rules as to what returns, or what has changed. It's all up to R*.

 

For Example. Lead singer of love fist is in Vice City and in GTA V. So there is a direct character that was modelled in both the 3D and HD universes. The HD universe is a reboot, that takes elements that have gone before but changes them.

Another example, the Perennial in the 3D universe it looked like it was based on the 1966 Chevy II Nova station wagon, but in the HD universe it's a honda. It exists in both but is different.

 

R* have rebooted the franchise. Simple as.


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#69

Posted 04 April 2014 - 12:57 AM

People are reading too far into this different universes thing. There are no specific rules as to what returns, or what has changed. It's all up to R*.

 

For Example. Lead singer of love fist is in Vice City and in GTA V. So there is a direct character that was modelled in both the 3D and HD universes. The HD universe is a reboot, that takes elements that have gone before but changes them.

Another example, the Perennial in the 3D universe it looked like it was based on the 1966 Chevy II Nova station wagon, but in the HD universe it's a honda. It exists in both but is different.

 

R* have rebooted the franchise. Simple as.

 

Exactly, my OP may not make sense it was really hard to explain :D


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#70

Posted 04 April 2014 - 02:02 AM

Yeah the universes thing is just something they tell the fans. Truth is they only bring back whoever they feel like bringing back. There is no "order" to it.
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#71

Posted 04 April 2014 - 02:58 AM

Ok, to those who think the 3D and HD eras co-exist, think of it like this.

In LCS it's specifically mentioned that there are only 3 LC mafia families (Leones, Forellis and Sindacos). Yet in IV, it's stated that there are five mafia familes (all of whom are known to have established well before 1998), and no mention of the Leones, Forellis or Sindaccos.

That said I know most of you will blow off this explaination because: "I only started with SA and never played III. And IV was sh*t. So your arguement is invalid".

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#72

Posted 04 April 2014 - 03:19 AM Edited by Ash_735, 04 April 2014 - 03:19 AM.

Yeah the universes thing is just something they tell the fans. Truth is they only bring back whoever they feel like bringing back. There is no "order" to it.

There is some but it's very flexible. Its only an issue with main characters. For example, if they brought CJ back, he couldn't exactly be all like "yeah and then I was ran out of L's and got a garage in sf after commuting crimes in red county and then I got a casino in Ventura's which is five minutes from here home", because in this era that's just bullsh*t.

Its a real simple thing to grasp, hell, think of it like Batman. I can't get any clearer than that. All have Gothem City, Bruce Wayne, etc but all very different depending on the era.

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#73

Posted 04 April 2014 - 03:29 AM Edited by Zodape, 04 April 2014 - 03:30 AM.

Ok, to those who think the 3D and HD eras co-exist, think of it like this.

In LCS it's specifically mentioned that there are only 3 LC mafia families (Leones, Forellis and Sindacos). Yet in IV, it's stated that there are five mafia familes (all of whom are known to have established well before 1998), and no mention of the Leones, Forellis or Sindaccos.

That said I know most of you will blow off this explaination because: "I only started with SA and never played III. And IV was sh*t. So your arguement is invalid".

 

I know this is off-topic, but why the hell they brought back gangs like Los Vagos, the Families and the Ballas in V, but completely replaced all the old mafia families and gangs with new ones in IV?


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#74

Posted 04 April 2014 - 03:36 AM


Ok, to those who think the 3D and HD eras co-exist, think of it like this.

In LCS it's specifically mentioned that there are only 3 LC mafia families (Leones, Forellis and Sindacos). Yet in IV, it's stated that there are five mafia familes (all of whom are known to have established well before 1998), and no mention of the Leones, Forellis or Sindaccos.

That said I know most of you will blow off this explaination because: "I only started with SA and never played III. And IV was sh*t. So your arguement is invalid".

 
I know this is off-topic, but why the hell they brought back gangs like Los Vagos, the Families and the Ballas in V, but completely replaced all the old mafia families and gangs with new ones in IV?

Because San Andreas was when they started to base the gangs off real gangs to fit the atmosphere better, obviously by this point they already screwed up Liberty City and a good section of Vice City but had to keep them as they were already established in that era.

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#75

Posted 04 April 2014 - 03:42 AM

I still don't understand why this is so hard for people to grasp in an age where every f*cking movie is a reboot or remake.

I mean, i understand people being mad cause they're all nostalgic, but come on, this is simple stuff to grasp.


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#76

Posted 04 April 2014 - 03:54 AM

I dunno whats up with R* saying they don't exist, when they clearly do. You can't just erase the past, LS is STILL LS and just look at the f*ckin grove, there it is. Now they want you to think that while playing gta v that none of the sh*t from SA went down and CJ never existed in that world. The ONLY reason I think they tried doing that is because look at CJ at the end of SA, he was a f*ckin kingpin of the city and our new protags would have to compete with that criminal juggernaut at one point or another if they are really gettin into the business and they didn't want to rehash old characters into a new story. At the same time though they drop hints like the dialog with Franklin talkin about how grove street used to be famlies hood, so it does and it doesn't exist. It is a bit confusing as to what is real and what did or didn't happen in the history of the gta v LS because half the time they act like SA did happen and the other half the act like SA never f*ckin existed.


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#77

Posted 04 April 2014 - 04:14 AM

Ugh, you're not getting it. They CAN exist but the events in this era played out differently.

Again, watch Batman. Just take into account the Tim Burton set, the Joel set and Christopher Nolan's trilogy. That's 7 films. Three eras. Each have their own Gothem City, Bruce Wayne's, Harvey Dent's, Joker, etc.

Let's talk Harvey Dent, he's running for mayor and in some form of support for Batman in the Tim Burton set, he's also black here. In the Joel set, he's already the crazed bad guy, now white and played by Tommy Lee Jones and they dismiss the story arc of the Burton set as they never happened to this Two-Face. And again come Nolan's trilogy it's back to the mayor angle and seeing him decline into Two-Face, and again, here despite being the same character, didn't do the events that was shown in the other eras.
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#78

Posted 04 April 2014 - 04:55 AM

I would say just give up on them Ash. The majority of these people here have too big of a hard on for CJ to think that he's not still fullfilling there childhood ghetto trash dream of running around shooting at people because of their clothing colour.
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#79

Posted 04 April 2014 - 02:42 PM Edited by Zee, 04 April 2014 - 02:45 PM.

Ugh, you're not getting it. They CAN exist but the events in this era played out differently.
Again, watch Batman. Just take into account the Tim Burton set, the Joel set and Christopher Nolan's trilogy. That's 7 films. Three eras. Each have their own Gothem City, Bruce Wayne's, Harvey Dent's, Joker, etc.
Let's talk Harvey Dent, he's running for mayor and in some form of support for Batman in the Tim Burton set, he's also black here. In the Joel set, he's already the crazed bad guy, now white and played by Tommy Lee Jones and they dismiss the story arc of the Burton set as they never happened to this Two-Face. And again come Nolan's trilogy it's back to the mayor angle and seeing him decline into Two-Face, and again, here despite being the same character, didn't do the events that was shown in the other eras.

So the guy from Love Fist in V is not the same guy from Vice City?

It's more like if characters from the Tim Burton movies had random cameos in the Nolan films. That wouldnt make sense would it?

The second I saw the guy from Love Fist, who was in a cutscene in Vice City, I gave up on this whole stupid "universe" concept.

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#80

Posted 04 April 2014 - 02:48 PM

 

Ugh, you're not getting it. They CAN exist but the events in this era played out differently.
Again, watch Batman. Just take into account the Tim Burton set, the Joel set and Christopher Nolan's trilogy. That's 7 films. Three eras. Each have their own Gothem City, Bruce Wayne's, Harvey Dent's, Joker, etc.
Let's talk Harvey Dent, he's running for mayor and in some form of support for Batman in the Tim Burton set, he's also black here. In the Joel set, he's already the crazed bad guy, now white and played by Tommy Lee Jones and they dismiss the story arc of the Burton set as they never happened to this Two-Face. And again come Nolan's trilogy it's back to the mayor angle and seeing him decline into Two-Face, and again, here despite being the same character, didn't do the events that was shown in the other eras.

So the guy from Love Fist in V is not the same guy from Vice City?

It's more like if characters from the Tim Burton movies had random cameos in the Nolan films. That wouldnt make sense would it?

The second I saw the guy from Love Fist, who was in a cutscene in Vice City, I gave up on this whole stupid "universe" concept.

 

Willie was never seen in Vice City though. Only Jezz, Dick and Percy.


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#81

Posted 04 April 2014 - 03:09 PM

 

That would make sense if it were different people making the games. But its still Dan and Sam Houser writing these things.

What doesn't make sense is how Donald Love is mentioned in the Liberty Tree in gta4 if it's supposed to be a separate universe

What doesn't make sense is how lazlow and fernando are still there of its "separate universes"

The whole "separate universes" thing is just to shut up the fanboys who would incessantly echo "Bring back tommy! Bring back CJ!" because R* want to move on,

As far as creator intent, Dan Houser even specifically said "Packie is not going to be in gta5" so their word is to be taken with grain of salt.

I can accept that CJ and Franklin are from the same city, and that the city just looks different for artistic reasons and leave it at that. Time passes and people change, the same guys banging in LS in 2013 would not be the same guys from 1992, hence CJ would have nothing to do with Franklin and would never be seen. I can accept that a hell of a lot better than all the "universes" stuff.

 

 

hmm you still aren't really understanding this correctly & I am probably pretty bad at explaining this too.

I think alot of confusion comes from a not understanding how the term "universe" is applied here. In physical cosmological the hypothetical Multiverse could hold infinite interpretations of us in any & every possible variation. Similarly it's used in fiction to define various interpretations of characters & place.

In the simplest terms, the different universes mean Rockstar don't need to be true to the previously established fiction(it doesn't matter who's writing it). That's everything from locations to characters to plot points. BUT, that doesn't mean they don't necessarily exist in the new universe in some alternative interpretation, but it shouldn't be assumed unless specifically stated.

There is no conflict in having Lazlow, Fernando & Donald Love existing in both universes; they are different interpretations of the fiction. Just because characters were in the previous universe does not mean they cannot be in the new universe, but the creators don't regard the version of them in the previous universe as being the same or canonical to the new universe.

So Rockstar could still bring back Tommy, CJ or who ever, with out any conflict.

 

 

 

 

It's more like if characters from the Tim Burton movies had random cameos in the Nolan films. That wouldnt make sense would it?

 

Dude, Batman is a pretty major character in both Tim Burton's Batman movies & Nolan's Batman movies.

 

Characters can be in both, there is no conflict there. This is the point in having different universes; to reinterpret characters & places in fiction.


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#82

Posted 04 April 2014 - 03:26 PM Edited by Zee, 04 April 2014 - 03:28 PM.

That would make sense if it were different people making the games. But its still Dan and Sam Houser writing these things.
What doesn't make sense is how Donald Love is mentioned in the Liberty Tree in gta4 if it's supposed to be a separate universe
What doesn't make sense is how lazlow and fernando are still there of its "separate universes"
The whole "separate universes" thing is just to shut up the fanboys who would incessantly echo "Bring back tommy! Bring back CJ!" because R* want to move on,
As far as creator intent, Dan Houser even specifically said "Packie is not going to be in gta5" so their word is to be taken with grain of salt.
I can accept that CJ and Franklin are from the same city, and that the city just looks different for artistic reasons and leave it at that. Time passes and people change, the same guys banging in LS in 2013 would not be the same guys from 1992, hence CJ would have nothing to do with Franklin and would never be seen. I can accept that a hell of a lot better than all the "universes" stuff.

 
hmm you still aren't really understanding this correctly & I am probably pretty bad at explaining this too.
I think alot of confusion comes from a not understanding how the term "universe" is applied here. In physical cosmological the hypothetical Multiverse could hold infinite interpretations of us in any & every possible variation. Similarly it's used in fiction to define various interpretations of characters & place.
In the simplest terms, the different universes mean Rockstar don't need to be true to the previously established fiction(it doesn't matter who's writing it). That's everything from locations to characters to plot points. BUT, that doesn't mean they don't necessarily exist in the new universe in some alternative interpretation, but it shouldn't be assumed unless specifically stated.
There is no conflict in having Lazlow, Fernando & Donald Love existing in both universes; they are different interpretations of the fiction. Just because characters were in the previous universe does not mean they cannot be in the new universe, but the creators don't regard the version of them in the previous universe as being the same or canonical to the new universe.
So Rockstar could still bring back Tommy, CJ or who ever, with out any conflict.
 
 
 
 

It's more like if characters from the Tim Burton movies had random cameos in the Nolan films. That wouldnt make sense would it?

 
Dude, Batman is a pretty major character in both Tim Burton's Batman movies & Nolan's Batman movies.
 
Characters can be in both, there is no conflict there. This is the point in having different universes; to reinterpret characters & places in fiction.
I'm talking about Jim Carrey's Riddler showing up in a Nolan film. Wouldn't happen since they are separate universes.

There is nothing complex to understand about the "universes" concept. It's not a science. It's just what R* decides to do. You're never going to see Tommy Vercetti in a GTA game ever again unless R* decides so (which isnt likely) It would be boring to have the same protagonists over and over, but the fans cant accept that. Hence the "universe" explanation.

Willie was never seen in Vice City though. Only Jezz, Dick and Percy.

Eh? I'm certain he was in the Limo Tommy was driving around.

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#83

Posted 04 April 2014 - 03:28 PM Edited by CJ killed Ryder, 04 April 2014 - 03:29 PM.

 

 

That would make sense if it were different people making the games. But its still Dan and Sam Houser writing these things.
What doesn't make sense is how Donald Love is mentioned in the Liberty Tree in gta4 if it's supposed to be a separate universe
What doesn't make sense is how lazlow and fernando are still there of its "separate universes"
The whole "separate universes" thing is just to shut up the fanboys who would incessantly echo "Bring back tommy! Bring back CJ!" because R* want to move on,
As far as creator intent, Dan Houser even specifically said "Packie is not going to be in gta5" so their word is to be taken with grain of salt.
I can accept that CJ and Franklin are from the same city, and that the city just looks different for artistic reasons and leave it at that. Time passes and people change, the same guys banging in LS in 2013 would not be the same guys from 1992, hence CJ would have nothing to do with Franklin and would never be seen. I can accept that a hell of a lot better than all the "universes" stuff.

 
hmm you still aren't really understanding this correctly & I am probably pretty bad at explaining this too.
I think alot of confusion comes from a not understanding how the term "universe" is applied here. In physical cosmological the hypothetical Multiverse could hold infinite interpretations of us in any & every possible variation. Similarly it's used in fiction to define various interpretations of characters & place.
In the simplest terms, the different universes mean Rockstar don't need to be true to the previously established fiction(it doesn't matter who's writing it). That's everything from locations to characters to plot points. BUT, that doesn't mean they don't necessarily exist in the new universe in some alternative interpretation, but it shouldn't be assumed unless specifically stated.
There is no conflict in having Lazlow, Fernando & Donald Love existing in both universes; they are different interpretations of the fiction. Just because characters were in the previous universe does not mean they cannot be in the new universe, but the creators don't regard the version of them in the previous universe as being the same or canonical to the new universe.
So Rockstar could still bring back Tommy, CJ or who ever, with out any conflict.
 
 
 
 

It's more like if characters from the Tim Burton movies had random cameos in the Nolan films. That wouldnt make sense would it?

 
Dude, Batman is a pretty major character in both Tim Burton's Batman movies & Nolan's Batman movies.
 
Characters can be in both, there is no conflict there. This is the point in having different universes; to reinterpret characters & places in fiction.

I'm talking about Jim Carrey's Joker showing up in a Nolan film. Wouldn't happen since they are separate universes.

There is nothing complex to understand about the "universes" concept. It's not a science. It's just what R* decides to do. You're never going to see Tommy Vercetti in a GTA game ever again unless R* decides so (which isnt likely) It would be boring to have the same protagonists over and over, but the fans cant accept that. Hence the "universe" explanation.

 

Jim Carrey was the Riddler, not the Joker.

 

But I get ur point. Since they lied abt Packie u never know if Rockstar telling truth or not.


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#84

Posted 04 April 2014 - 03:29 PM

Thanks. Just caught that and edited it, but the point still stands.

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#85

Posted 04 April 2014 - 03:52 PM

 Willie was never seen in Vice City though. Only Jezz, Dick and Percy.

Eh? I'm certain he was in the Limo Tommy was driving around.

 

He was, but, you never actually see him physically. Makes you wonder if R* had this planned all along, or if they're just making it up as they go along (I'd go with the latter).


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#86

Posted 04 April 2014 - 04:16 PM

Who says it's THE same Willie though? He doesn't mention anything from Vice City, who's to say there couldn't be this universes version of LoveFist to? He was in VC for one mission only and looks nothing like he does in GTAV.

And Zee, you said something earlier, you said that it's still Dan and Sam Houser writing the games so they shouldn't do the Universe thing, but it's actually done in the Comic Book industry to, Frank Miller has rebooted his own Batman Dark Knight series and there's even Paul Dini who was lead writer in two different Batman Universes, the Animated TV Series and the recent Arkham Video Games Series.

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#87

Posted 04 April 2014 - 04:23 PM

Willie was an annoying dickhead in V, but he sounded serious in Vice City.

Your theory could be true, but might not apply to all characters.


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#88

Posted 04 April 2014 - 04:51 PM

Willie was an annoying dickhead in V, but he sounded serious in Vice City.
Your theory could be true, but might not apply to all characters.


Willy was the only member of LV that didn't appear in Vice City.

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#89

Posted 04 April 2014 - 05:19 PM

Lazlow and Fernando are different to their 3D era versions though. I've already pointed out how Lazlow is different, Fernando has a huge difference in this era, he's a shamed schoolteacher who is on the sexual offenders list and got into radio after that. There was no "Fernando's New Beginnings" in the HD era, he wasn't exposed as a fraud and just someone pretending.

Characters can exist in multiple universes but there will be something different, again most basic way to put it would be to just think of it as a comic book. Many different universes.

Uh...NO, they're NOT different.

 

-Lazlow was an intern and a pussy who got bullied by VRock DJ Couzin Ed.

-Couzin Ed got fired and Lazlow manned up and took his job hosting VRock until he was fired for disrespecting the Vulture.

-He then got a job at WCTR after Jack Howitzer went apesh*t and murdered his predecessor.

-By 1998 he had his own call-in talk show in Liberty City called Chatterbox.

-Donald Love and Love Media helped Lazow's show become its own radio station.

-They mentioned all this in the internet articles and radio adverts for Integrity.  By this time, Lazlow's behavior was becoming creepy and erratic.

-Finally he became a Ryan Seacrest parody who sexually harasses contestants and jerks off in traffic.


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#90

Posted 04 April 2014 - 05:25 PM

Lazlow and Fernando are different to their 3D era versions though. I've already pointed out how Lazlow is different, Fernando has a huge difference in this era, he's a shamed schoolteacher who is on the sexual offenders list and got into radio after that. There was no "Fernando's New Beginnings" in the HD era, he wasn't exposed as a fraud and just someone pretending.

Characters can exist in multiple universes but there will be something different, again most basic way to put it would be to just think of it as a comic book. Many different universes.

Uh...NO, they're NOT different.
 
-Lazlow was an intern and a pussy who got bullied by VRock DJ Couzin Ed.
-Couzin Ed got fired and Lazlow manned up and took his job hosting VRock until he was fired for disrespecting the Vulture.
-He then got a job at WCTR after Jack Howitzer went apesh*t and murdered his predecessor.
-By 1998 he had his own call-in talk show in Liberty City called Chatterbox.
-Donald Love and Love Media helped Lazow's show become its own radio station.
-They mentioned all this in the internet articles and radio adverts for Integrity.  By this time, Lazlow's behavior was becoming creepy and erratic.
-Finally he became a Ryan Seacrest parody who sexually harasses contestants and jerks off in traffic.


The history of where he appeared is the same, but are you seriously telling me that Lazlow had some sort of personality transplant between GTA3 and GTA IV (which timeline wise is the next in line). Lazlow in the HD Era is much more of a pathetic wretch, there's barely anything left of the arrogant sarcastic dick of the GTA3 games, the only time he acted more of a wimp was in San Andreas when being threatened, but the rest of his appearances were all arrogant and sarcastic, something he doesn't display in the HD era.

And how about Fernando? Fernando's New Beginings, the whole him being exposed as a fraud, etc, didn't happen in this era, hell, instead Fernando was a schoolteacher at some point instead and was put on the sexual offenders list.




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