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Checkpoint Placement Guide

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LuapYllier
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#61

Posted 10 June 2014 - 10:19 PM Edited by LuapYllier, 10 June 2014 - 10:23 PM.

No matter what kind of track it is or in what game or real life scenario you are in, the fastest line is the smoothest, widest (meaning the arc of the turn), shortest line around the corner. We all know this. I am obviously not telling you something new. Any good driver will look for and use this line. 

 

In my opinion, the physical aspects of the race, the buildings, light poles, benches, trees etc. construct the boundaries of the course. The checkpoints represent the co-driver or navigator in directing you through the course. Again, in my opinion, if the checkpoints become an obstacle or liability in the form of being difficult to hit or easy to miss then something has been done wrong. There is nothing wrong with wanting to keep the race lines on the road but best practice would be to enforce this desire by using well placed props to remove the option. Doing so with the checkpoint placement is a legitimate option but it leaves the possibility of a driver missing said checkpoint on the inside. I can tell you from experience nothing pisses a driver off more than being in a tight race and trying to squeeze every inch out of the track, taking a risky line to try to get an edge and then missing the checkpoint. One simple and visible prop in the opening would tell the drivers not to go there.

 

Also don't get me wrong, on many roads you can put the edge of the corona at the edge of the curb and it will still feel like it is in the apex of the turn. However, putting the checkpoint in the middle of an intersection does more than remove the shortcut, it also removes the more subtle cues that a good checkpoint placement can provide. A checkpoint placed in an apex is also going to be off to one side of the road and partially into the corner which all on its own gives a lot of information to the driver.

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Cuz05
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#62

Posted 10 June 2014 - 10:22 PM

Just added a couple of minor points. An extra note on hairpin placement and an additional point in tips about using the connecting line between CPs as a quick visibility check.


GR Choke
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#63

Posted 11 June 2014 - 10:17 AM

i actually re- did all my races based on this guide, my cp placement was really bad haha

Cuz05
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#64

Posted 11 June 2014 - 12:05 PM

Really pleased to hear that GR. Nice one.

McManus84
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#65

Posted 11 June 2014 - 05:27 PM Edited by McManus84, 11 June 2014 - 05:58 PM.

Any expert race creators online? PS3? I'll be online for about an hour and a half.

I have a track which I love, but it has a turn which catches people out every time if they have never tried the race before.

Basically where I'm struggling, it climbs a bit and then the road falls away to the right down a bit before swinging around to left, in order to get through it you have to slow down a lot. People don't realise and just launch off it.

So I placed a couple of blue barriers on the hill just as a warning, they weren't in the way or anything....that didn't work.

Placed a cp on the part where it falls away to the right...this just meant they had to turn around, and go back to the cp so that ruined there chances of getting back into the race.

When practicing I realised I could get a faster time if I landed right so...
Then I placed a couple of blue barriers in the direction you would go if you just jumped off the top. It worked in trapping them if they launched but again ruined there chances.

I can't place barriers along the edge to shape the turn because of the angle of the road, other props are to low and you just go over them.

If anyone can join me and offer some advice I would really appreciate it as the rest of the track is really nice to drive.

STEVIE_BOY_SL1

LuapYllier
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#66

Posted 11 June 2014 - 05:42 PM

Might be one of the exceptions where the checkpoint for the turn might be better placed on the crest of the hill...depends on how far from the turn it is.

Sometimes it just boils down to the race might be better served with a path change.

deejayb1874
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#67

Posted 11 June 2014 - 05:49 PM Edited by deejayb1874, 11 June 2014 - 05:51 PM.

Diversion signs on the crest of the hill (both sides of the road) and a warning in the description. Another option would be a chicane just before the crest of the hill. Your third option would be a reroute, as suggested by Luap.


McManus84
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#68

Posted 11 June 2014 - 05:55 PM

I can't change the route, that's not me being unwilling to compromise, there isn't another route. It's fine when I'm racing with friends but it ruins the experience if you don't know it's coming. I've tried different cp locations.
It's a shame really.
I'll try diversion signs and see how it goes...pretty sure people will just crash into them tho, are they solid if you hit them or dynamic?

Cuz05
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#69

Posted 11 June 2014 - 06:15 PM Edited by Cuz05, 11 June 2014 - 06:20 PM.

Palomino Highlands?

 

Crewmate of ours has a race there with the exact type of corner you mention. He placed a bus wreck at the braking point and included a description warning. Doesn't matter how many times I've run that race, I always fk up there at some point. There is just no solution other than knowing it.

Then he created a reverse version of the exact same route, it's one of my favourite races.

Hats off to Nitty Don.

Feltzer Rally Reverse

 

Another crewmate has a bike race that uses that stretch. He placed a couple ramps on the hill so you simply cut out that problem part. Landing is alright on a bike but might be kinda random in a car.

Thank you Swifty.

Wreck-A-Mended

 

Diversion signs are very solid :D

 

Couple more I just thought off. One guy did use a chicane just before the rise. I wasn't too keen on the way he built the chicane itself tbh, but it did serve to scrub speed off and make that corner functional.

One of the approved races also uses the road in reverse and it's a nice drive.

 

I say switch it round.


McManus84
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#70

Posted 11 June 2014 - 06:30 PM

You know what yeah it's that exact piece of road, I've no doubt we talking about the same corner/turn. I did actually make it in reverse but it took away the excitement for me. The part after that turn is amazing, you can get any car on the edge of grip and if you want you can get some epic drifts going.
Ok well I guess that corner is just a bitch for everyone, I just drove there in free mode and it even caught me out! I was like where is it.....oh.
No way that wreck a mended is nearly identical to mine, only a slight change...greats minds!
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Cuz05
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#71

Posted 11 June 2014 - 06:37 PM

Haha, yep, same for everyone. Although I call it the bastard.

 

Just had a kinda crazy thought. May not actually work in any way, shape or form but....

I like to build technical corners on GP tracks, using a combination of striped barriers, tyre stacks and lines. It's a lot of work and really has to be spot on for people to appreciate. I just wondered whether it was possible to build a sort of fake road on the grass bank to take people around it..... Clearly it would need some epic creativity and placement not to be plain horrible and may just be completely unworkable.... Sweep off to the left, then tighten in to the right and back onto the tarmac...

Tbh, it's probably not worth the effort. Just don't invite randoms to it anymore, lol.


McManus84
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#72

Posted 11 June 2014 - 06:50 PM

Well I've got to do something but my other problem is I've used all my props and trust me I've been back so many times scrimping and trying to see if I can free some up.
I'm using a line of hotdog vans! f*cking hotdog vans!!!!
As that is the only prop I could seem to place close to edge of the road, the way it slopes makes placing there a nightmare, I hate it, spoils the race for me, I don't want bloody hotdog vans on my track!!
Sorry about the crude phone pic.

image.jpg

That's the best I could do, and in a fast super you can still jump all that.
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who-dat
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#73

Posted 11 June 2014 - 06:55 PM

The fact that you refuse to understand what I'm trying to say and that you can only counter with the same thing you've been saying shows how you take criticism, not very well.

I agree that on most turns, CP placement should be closer to the apex....however, there are turns where if the CP is at the apex of the turn, racers can leave the track altogether OR racers who were going a bit too fast into the turn and therefore are dealing with understeer and could miss the CP while staying on the road, through the turn while others who went off-road make the CP.

Does that make sense, to have racers stay on track and miss the CP, whilst other racers are cutting the corner and going off-road and getting the CP?

GR Choke
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#74

Posted 11 June 2014 - 08:53 PM

Really pleased to hear that GR. Nice one.


all 102 races, now they look much better and professional

they were terrible before

thanks

stronktank
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#75

Posted 11 June 2014 - 10:59 PM

McManus84: It's exactly the same turn NittyDon had issues with. Try these:

Feltzer Rally (with the issue)

Feltzer Rally Reverse  (without the issue)


LuapYllier
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#76

Posted 12 June 2014 - 12:34 AM

The fact that you refuse to understand what I'm trying to say and that you can only counter with the same thing you've been saying shows how you take criticism, not very well.

I agree that on most turns, CP placement should be closer to the apex....however, there are turns where if the CP is at the apex of the turn, racers can leave the track altogether OR racers who were going a bit too fast into the turn and therefore are dealing with understeer and could miss the CP while staying on the road, through the turn while others who went off-road make the CP.

Does that make sense, to have racers stay on track and miss the CP, whilst other racers are cutting the corner and going off-road and getting the CP?

Look, I take criticism just fine. I offered my opinion...and clearly stated so several times. Your perfectly welcome to disagree with it. I will only say one thing more. If you are thinking that we are suggesting a checkpoint placement that allows what you just said than your the one not understanding. Why would I change my counter argument...I am not a politician looking for votes, I am just telling you what I believe to be true.

 

I'm letting go of this now. I don't want to ruin the thread.


Cuz05
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#77

Posted 12 June 2014 - 05:18 AM

Well I've got to do something but my other problem is I've used all my props and trust me I've been back so many times scrimping and trying to see if I can free some up.
I'm using a line of hotdog vans! f*cking hotdog vans!!!!
As that is the only prop I could seem to place close to edge of the road, the way it slopes makes placing there a nightmare, I hate it, spoils the race for me, I don't want bloody hotdog vans on my track!!
 

Lol. Have a go on Wreck-A-Mended, posted above. Happened to run it last night and thought there was a possibility that the ramps he uses might work for you. They are quite subtle and nicely placed.


Cuz05
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#78

Posted 12 June 2014 - 05:29 AM

 

The fact that you refuse to understand what I'm trying to say and that you can only counter with the same thing you've been saying shows how you take criticism, not very well.

Does that make sense, to have racers stay on track and miss the CP, whilst other racers are cutting the corner and going off-road and getting the CP?

Look, I take criticism just fine. I offered my opinion...

I'm letting go of this now. I don't want to ruin the thread.

Criticism, fine. Caps lock and insults, not so much.

 

We say the same thing because it is the way to go and you have not accepted that at all, perhaps you have the criticism problem.

It makes less sense to punish people who drive well and go for the fastest available line, regardless of where it is, while favouring people who are mistakenly running well wide.

Also makes little sense that you would turn your nose up and start shouting when offered a simple, better alternative.

I'm never going to put a suggestion in the guide that punishes people for looking for a faster racing line. 

 

Also letting go, since everything that needed to be said was covered in the 1st few posts on the topic.


McManus84
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#79

Posted 12 June 2014 - 07:27 AM

Cuz05-cheers I will check it out tonight.

who-dat
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#80

Posted 12 June 2014 - 05:31 PM Edited by who-dat, 12 June 2014 - 05:35 PM.


I agree that on most turns, CP placement should be closer to the apex....

perhaps you have the criticism problem..

I'm agreeing with you, but as you refuse to acknowledge that there might be one spot in this entire map where a CP is better served in the center of an intersection as opposed to next to the corner/traffic pole/grass/off-road, I'm done with this thread and the fact that the creator of what is a helpful thread must be right about their thoughts and can never be wrong.

Good day sir.

Cuz05
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#81

Posted 12 June 2014 - 07:54 PM Edited by Cuz05, 12 June 2014 - 07:55 PM.

 

I agree that the creator of what is a helpful thread must be right about their thoughts and can never be wrong.


Good day sir.

 

I think I'll leave it like this.

 

Good day to you too  :)


stronktank
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#82

Posted 18 June 2014 - 06:13 PM

So I legged it!

 

Great race actually. Probably the best 68 cp race I've played so far. Flukey liked it a lot too.

 

As this isn't a reviewing thread I'm keeping to the cp's as it does have the same flaws as in other 68 cp races imo. Noted cp 3/4 and 14/15 and 38/39 being too far, but there were more but those were the most bothering imo. Anyway this doesn't really matter, but thanks for opening my eyes towards a good 68 cp race. I'll shut up about it too, as I'm annoying myself. Though hope not too many new nominations will be 68 cp races, and adding this to the OP: '68 cp races will be judged brutally'.


paulmgrath
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#83

Posted 27 June 2014 - 10:06 PM Edited by paulmgrath, 27 June 2014 - 10:11 PM.

@mcmanus personally i would move 16 inline where the blue fences join and rotate the C/P more to the right then it is to make drivers think its a tight turn due to arrow direction and thus brake more hopefully :D sorry if you tried this already or doesnt help
like other members have said its a tough turn to work with

edit apparently you cant rotate the C/P arrows, moving 17 back a little should have similar effect though
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Nitty Don
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#84

Posted 30 June 2014 - 12:09 PM

Well I've got to do something but my other problem is I've used all my props and trust me I've been back so many times scrimping and trying to see if I can free some up.
I'm using a line of hotdog vans! f*cking hotdog vans!!!!
As that is the only prop I could seem to place close to edge of the road, the way it slopes makes placing there a nightmare, I hate it, spoils the race for me, I don't want bloody hotdog vans on my track!!
Sorry about the crude phone pic.

image.jpg

That's the best I could do, and in a fast super you can still jump all that.

 

I f*cking hate this piece of road !!!

 

Although when I built this race I did not know about glitching props, so I may revisit and see if I can do it better .... I am doubtful though .. it nearly got to the point where I deleted that CP !!


LuapYllier
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#85

Posted 30 June 2014 - 12:17 PM

Honestly, if the checkpoint points the right way and the next one is visible properly then it is up to the driver to get it right. I know we try to make things as foolproof as possible but just remember that rockstar uses no props at all. Any props you place to "save" people are bonuses.

I imagine if you truely must put something there it would probably work well to use the electric box to glitch a container into the ground as a level surface and then stack your barrier up from there to make it high enough to serve the purpose.
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Nitty Don
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#86

Posted 30 June 2014 - 03:23 PM

Honestly, if the checkpoint points the right way and the next one is visible properly then it is up to the driver to get it right. I know we try to make things as foolproof as possible but just remember that rockstar uses no props at all. Any props you place to "save" people are bonuses.

I imagine if you truely must put something there it would probably work well to use the electric box to glitch a container into the ground as a level surface and then stack your barrier up from there to make it high enough to serve the purpose.

 

It's probably the worst (or best !) corner in the map ! I have a treble chevron check point, and props but even experienced drivers still miss it ! it is due to the next CP being downhill and to the right so very hard to see.

 

Like said gonna play with glitching props and see what happens .... I'll report back if it made a decent variance to non propped, my guess at this point is that it won't stop people missing the corner it will just stop them flying around 30 meters past it and into a wall of props instead ..... not sure which is the more favourable out of the 2 lol !!


Cuz05
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#87

Posted 30 June 2014 - 06:27 PM

Lol. It's a special corner that one.

 

Stacking to create a level surface is a really interesting idea, actually made me wonder if it's possible to bring the level of the road bed up. Maybe if Swifty shows you how to make his banks, you could put a big berm in there.....;)


GTAMYBABIES
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#88

Posted 01 July 2014 - 10:18 AM

Honestly, if the checkpoint points the right way and the next one is visible properly then it is up to the driver to get it right. I know we try to make things as foolproof as possible but just remember that rockstar uses no props at all. Any props you place to "save" people are bonuses.

I imagine if you truely must put something there it would probably work well to use the electric box to glitch a container into the ground as a level surface and then stack your barrier up from there to make it high enough to serve the purpose.

r☆ does use props. Mostly small ramps in bike races. Rest of what you said I agree on. Some drivers don't realize there are brakes in the vehicles.

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#89

Posted 01 July 2014 - 11:27 AM

Well this is my new effort, I think it is very clear now, just check out the job photo for an idea of what I changed ;)

 

http://socialclub.ro...cQ?platformId=2


Cuz05
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#90

Posted 01 July 2014 - 04:07 PM

Haha, nice one Don. You could've just dumped it in the road- your braking point is here, WHAM!

 

I completely agree with not catering to people who don't pay attention but that corner really is a special case. I know it's there, have run the track a number of times and I've misjudged the dip more often than I've made it.





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