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The IV versus V debate

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Geralt of Rivia
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#1921

Posted 28 April 2014 - 11:15 PM

Care to list some of these gaming sites that changed their minds about V after its release?


Tilemaxx
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#1922

Posted 28 April 2014 - 11:18 PM

I didn't see a single site or journalist change his mind about V. That was the case with IV back in '08, but this time most people acknowledged that V fixed all the annoyances featured in IV. Probably this trend is rising only here, where we nitpick every single detail of the game.


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#1923

Posted 28 April 2014 - 11:22 PM

I didn't see a single site or journalist change his mind about V. 

Neither have I. Really curious to see what he comes up with.


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#1924

Posted 28 April 2014 - 11:26 PM

San Andreas fans during the IV era: "GTA IV Let me down"

 

IV fans during now: "GTA V let me down"

 

I believe I'm correct in assuming that most people who enjoyed V thought IV was a let down and people who thought IV was a masterpiece thought V was a letdown.

 

I'm in the IV is a letdown camp if only because that game didn't have planes or tanks. I was excited for multiple protagonists, but they don't change much aside from appearance and personality after the story is done. It's more of an alternate fast travel system than anything. V has it's own share of problems, but I'm glad to be out of dull and grey liberty city, which felt just as empty to me aside from maybe the clubs in BOGT.

 

And no, I don't give a f*ck about sales or metascores here. Some people didn't like IV, others didn't like this game. It's not a problem, really.


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#1925

Posted 28 April 2014 - 11:38 PM Edited by Tilemaxx, 28 April 2014 - 11:38 PM.

V fans during VI release: "VI was a letdown". We know the deal...


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#1926

Posted 28 April 2014 - 11:50 PM

A smidge? That's laughable.
 
First the "Glitches = rushed game" nonsense, and now this?
 
Jesus.


Shouldn't you be worshipping at your altar of GTA V that you have hidden in your closet? Keep the chanting down though. Wouldn't want you waking your mama and papa little boy. You're either too blinded by fanboyism and you're truly a moron to think that single player wasn't and isn't an afterthought to Rockstar. Just stop. You make yourself look like a silly goose
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Tilemaxx
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#1927

Posted 28 April 2014 - 11:55 PM

 


Shouldn't you be worshipping at your altar of GTA V that you have hidden in your closet? Keep the chanting down though. Wouldn't want you waking your mama and papa little boy. You're either too blinded by fanboyism and you're truly a moron to think that single player wasn't and isn't an afterthought to Rockstar. Just stop. You make yourself look like a silly goose

 

Can you prove that SP was an afterthought? Don't come up with the "69 missions" argument.

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Geralt of Rivia
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#1928

Posted 29 April 2014 - 12:02 AM Edited by TheMasterfocker, 29 April 2014 - 12:14 AM.

 

A smidge? That's laughable.
 
First the "Glitches = rushed game" nonsense, and now this?
 
Jesus.


Shouldn't you be worshipping at your altar of GTA V that you have hidden in your closet? Keep the chanting down though. Wouldn't want you waking your mama and papa little boy. You're either too blinded by fanboyism and you're truly a moron to think that single player wasn't and isn't an afterthought to Rockstar. Just stop. You make yourself look like a silly goose

 

This whole post is laughable. It starts off-topic, then translates to bullsh*t.

 

129 missions (Including S&F), and lots of other things = an afterthought. Not to mention the DLC that's coming.

 

I think there's something wrong with how your mind processes things. Or maybe it's just your mind in general. You tell me.


CantThinkOfOne2013
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#1929

Posted 29 April 2014 - 01:14 AM Edited by CantThinkOfOne2013, 29 April 2014 - 01:30 AM.

 

I simply asked heroe how he thought the game was rushed without mentioning story because I have seen a lot of people say that GTA V was rushed and the only thing they can say in their defence is 'story', I wasn't trying to make rules about what you debate.

Not exactly. I haven't played V yet but I myself am disappointed with some of the absent features such as crouching and night clubs. Crouching is like a basic feature so when people say  "rushed" they don't necessarily mean rushed they mean it's just carelessness. If they do, I think carelessness is more appropriate.

 

 
Crouching was not removed, it was replaced, instead of crouching, there is now a stealth mode which is activated when clicking the left stick.
As for nightclubs, that is not carelessness, it is just a certain feature not being in the game, I am actually glad they are gone for that matter, having an extra interior would be great but the inevitable dancing minigame that comes with it would not be great. 
 

@ woggleman
 
Your explanation and reasoning, once again is poor, and does not really make much sense. GTA V had a short story

 
I remember seeing a thread where you said that Metal Gear Solid 4 was your favourite game of the 7th gen so it would be extremely hypercritical if you started criticising GTA V for being too short.
 

Shouldn't you be worshipping at your altar of GTA V that you have hidden in your closet? Keep the chanting down though. Wouldn't want you waking your mama and papa little boy. You're either too blinded by fanboyism and you're truly a moron to think that single player wasn't and isn't an afterthought to Rockstar. Just stop. You make yourself look like a silly goose

 
GTA V Trailer 1:    Single Player
GTA V Trailer 2:    Single Player
GTA V Trailer 3.1: Single Player
GTA V Trailer 3.2: Single Player
GTA V Trailer 3.3: Single Player
GTA V Trailer 4:    Single Player with a tiny bit of online footage
GTA V Trailer 5:    Online
GTA V Trailer 6:    Single Player
@Jvaz615: The holes in your logic makes swiss cheese jealous.


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#1930

Posted 29 April 2014 - 01:40 AM Edited by StingrayX, 29 April 2014 - 01:41 AM.





I simply asked heroe how he thought the game was rushed without mentioning story because I have seen a lot of people say that GTA V was rushed and the only thing they can say in their defence is 'story', I wasn't trying to make rules about what you debate.

Not exactly. I haven't played V yet but I myself am disappointed with some of the absent features such as crouching and night clubs. Crouching is like a basic feature so when people say  "rushed" they don't necessarily mean rushed they mean it's just carelessness. If they do, I think carelessness is more appropriate.
 
Crouching was not removed, it was replaced, instead of crouching, there is now a stealth mode which is activated when clicking the left stick.
As for nightclubs, that is not carelessness, it is just a certain feature not being in the game, I am actually glad they are gone for that matter, having an extra interior would be great but the inevitable dancing minigame that comes with it would not be great.
Does it really make a difference if it was "replaced"? It never returned and it was replaced by such a stupid and utterly useless feature that was nowhere nearly as good as the crouching feature.

As for the clubbing aspect that could've been in the game, well yeah that is your opinion. To me, clubbing would've been cool and it should've been in and it's ridiculous that it never returned. Who in the right mind chooses not to make such in-depth features return? Honestly, who?
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#1931

Posted 29 April 2014 - 01:49 AM

aside from the constant arguing and quoting i'm seeing, i'm going to compare all the mechanics from IV against V as i see it:

 

graphics: V (new game, though - so it's obvious the graphics would be improved. however, V DOES have the best graphics i have personally seen)

shooting: IV (free-aim was usable on console, V's free aim is horrid. new reticles does not mean better shooting, not one bit)

driving: V (i do prefer this new racing game style over IV's realism, but that doesn't mean i hated IV's driving, i preferred it over old GTA style)

customization: V (i wish mike, trevor and the online guy had the same amount of customization as franklin, though)

physics: IV (peds would react much more realistically: getting shot, getting a gun aimed at them, running the player over, etc.)

map: IV (5 is huge and more diverse, but IV felt more alive)

story: IV (by a country mile)

characters: IV (again, by a country mile)

online: V (only redeeming factor of GTA5 for me, but i still don't care for GTA MP - RDR is still the best MP)

 

It seems like a close win for IV, but in reality IV wins by a landslide for me. i look for story out of SP games and fun out of MP games. GTA5's story was just horrible in my opinion and GTAO is far from fun, its a constant grind for money.

 

I may have posted like 10 times or something on this topic, but that was in replies - i never actually answered it. so here it is =D


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#1932

Posted 29 April 2014 - 01:56 AM Edited by Andreas, 29 April 2014 - 04:51 PM. Removed quote-train.

Does it really make a difference if it was "replaced"? It never returned and it was replaced by such a stupid and utterly useless feature that was nowhere nearly as good as the crouching feature.

Yes it makes a difference because its removal was not carelessness like in what was said.


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#1933

Posted 29 April 2014 - 02:18 AM Edited by Andreas, 29 April 2014 - 04:52 PM. Removed quote-train.

Yes it makes a difference because its removal was not carelessness like in what was said.

but like stingray said, it was replaced with the most useless feature in GTA. therefore, crouch mode's removal was careless because they didn't bother to make the feature that replaced crouching useful, and give you only a few opportunities to use stealth. also no opportunites to use stealth in online missions since the gang members/merryweather/fib/whatever somehow detect you even if you are behind them with stealth on.

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#1934

Posted 29 April 2014 - 02:20 AM

It must be a cold day in Hell. nobum said that sneak was more useless than Yoga.

 

Holy mother of f*ck...

 

:lol:

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#1935

Posted 29 April 2014 - 02:34 AM

It must be a cold day in Hell. nobum said that sneak was more useless than Yoga.

 

Holy mother of f*ck...

 

:lol:

 

actually i can't decide. both are equally useless. :)  but at least i enjoy listening to the music in yoga, and i feel like a sneaky badass in stealth mode despite both being useless.

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#1936

Posted 29 April 2014 - 03:33 AM

To be honest Crouching was only good to get greater accuracity besides that it is useless as a means of cover as your character will be more exposed tan actually using the cover option, you also move slower and IV made it look like if you were taking a dump. I'd rather walk like the hunchback of notre damethan to look like a f*cking moron who is taking a dump.

 

And, it being useless is a pure lie. I've been doing some testing within capture and Stealth has been actually pretty useful, when you try to silently execute somebody without the stealth mode option they will be alerted by your presence already but they will not display that, once you stab them, hit them or slash them they will either scream alerting nearby enemies or their weapon will go off once it hits the ground.  


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#1937

Posted 29 April 2014 - 04:26 AM Edited by SonOfLiberty, 29 April 2014 - 04:26 AM.

To be honest Crouching was only good to get greater accuracity besides that it is useless as a means of cover as your character will be more exposed tan actually using the cover option, you also move slower and IV made it look like if you were taking a dump. I'd rather walk like the hunchback of notre damethan to look like a f*cking moron who is taking a dump.


And it's still more useful than stealth in GTA V. How many shootouts in a Hollywood action movie have you seen where the shooters stand up like hunch backs and move from point to point?

Moving while crouching may not be the fastest method, but it still provides reasonable amounts of cover and as you said improves accuracy. I use crouching in GTA IV a lot more than stealth in GTA V.
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#1938

Posted 29 April 2014 - 04:36 AM Edited by Officer Ronson, 29 April 2014 - 04:38 AM.

To be honest I've never seen a Hollywood movie in where the protagonist or a Random Joe moves from A to B slowly moving while crouching.


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#1939

Posted 29 April 2014 - 04:38 AM

@Ronson, you'll defend any decision made by Rockstar it seems. :sigh: Why am I not surprised?

Anyways, my main problem with V was that it just didn't feel like a GTA. A smartass would reply saying, "It still has stealing, killing, and explosions" but GTA is more than that. V felt so weird, if it weren't named GTA it wouldn't even bother me.
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#1940

Posted 29 April 2014 - 04:41 AM

Oh Stingray.... you do know the difference between a pizza and your opinion right? If so, please sit back and shut up.


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#1941

Posted 29 April 2014 - 06:47 AM Edited by Jimbatron, 29 April 2014 - 07:18 AM.

The crouching vs stealth thing is relatively minor for me in SP. I used both very rarely. Crouching had huge tactical value in Cops 'n Crooks when guarding the getaway as it made your marker disappear, as a cop with no blip, that was important. In other matches with no blips I reckon mobility was more important. Since CnC shows no signs of being in V, I'd be lying if I said this change made much difference to me.

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#1942

Posted 29 April 2014 - 11:04 AM Edited by Official General, 29 April 2014 - 11:06 AM.

 

A smidge? That's laughable.
 
First the "Glitches = rushed game" nonsense, and now this?
 
Jesus.


Shouldn't you be worshipping at your altar of GTA V that you have hidden in your closet? Keep the chanting down though. Wouldn't want you waking your mama and papa little boy. You're either too blinded by fanboyism and you're truly a moron to think that single player wasn't and isn't an afterthought to Rockstar. Just stop. You make yourself look like a silly goose

 

 

You spoke the truth Jvaz615

 

I don't even see why I should be replying to Masterfocker anyway. He sent me a PM telling me how he's tired and fed of my having a dig at his comments, and he wishes to no longer engage in discussion with me. But it's clear to see that his extreme, ass-lickin' of Rockstar and GTA V means he just cannot help himself. 

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#1943

Posted 29 April 2014 - 11:32 AM Edited by Official General, 29 April 2014 - 12:49 PM.

 


I didn't see a single site or journalist change his mind about V. 

Neither have I. Really curious to see what he comes up with.
 
 
Of course there will be sites like IGN and others that would give GTA V a brilliant score and glowing reviews. Not saying they are totally biased, but let's face it, it's GTA. With the might of a huge marketing campaign and Rockstar's reputable name behind it, V was always gonna get good reviews. But once the hype smoke cleared, the cracks began to show. You just chose to overlook them or just not look at them at all. They will not go away that is for sure. 
 
There is a plethora of gaming sites, articles, and blogs that criticized GTA V and expressed their disappointment with it not long after it's official release. If V was really so popular and well-liked as woggleman, and both of you claim it is, then it would be hard to find such a massive amount of negative material directed at the game. I found so many with ease, that surely is telling you something. If you wanna be in denial, then fine, but I will present the evidence to you a handful of sites. I'd be here if I spent all day giving you every example, there are just so many. I have provided a mix of viewpoints from reviewers, journalists, bloggers, fans, and discussion boards to give a varied insight as to why GTA V was seen as a letdown by many. Well here they are :
 
http://www.gamefaqs....auto-v/67258699
 
http://www.ign.com/b...time.453627979/
 
http://www.gamespot....gta-v-29419721/
 
http://www.gamespot....ilers-29450355/
 
http://www.lazygamer...sible-spoilers/
 
http://www.examiner....itely-not-grand
 
http://uproxx.com/ga...gta-yet/#page/6
 
http://o.canada.com/...d-disappointing
 
http://www.giantbomb...re-are-1453955/
 
http://smartknowledg...eo-game-history
 
http://whatculture.c...rove-gta-iv.php
 
And are there MANY Youtube videos of people stating how GTA V has been a big disappointment to them, you can look this up yourself. I'm sorry, but the evidence and my personal experience speaks for itself. It tells me that just as many people were disappointed with this game as much as those who loved it. 
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#1944

Posted 29 April 2014 - 11:57 AM

Oh Stingray.... you do know the difference between a pizza and your opinion right? If so, please sit back and shut up.

Was I supposed to be offended? :lol: And no, I won't sit back and shut up, you're not my mom so don't tell me what to do.


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#1945

Posted 29 April 2014 - 01:20 PM

It tells me that just as many people were disappointed with this game as much as those who loved it.

Oh really? Then you'll have no problem explaining to everyone why every single poll on the matter carried out on this forum - a forum that has now cemented its reputation as a top platform for the whiners to vent, and the trolls to troll - reflects that the overwhelming majority of the fans, still to this day, are happy with the game, having fun and enjoying the experience V has to offer, and rate Rockstar's latest title their favourite GTA to date. Let me guess- they're not "real fans", just "casual gamers"etc...

 

Seriously, your anger, bitterness, and denial hits a new level of delusion every time I return to this depressing thread...

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#1946

Posted 29 April 2014 - 01:29 PM Edited by Tilemaxx, 29 April 2014 - 01:31 PM.

Those links are mostly user blogs and day one reviews, the majority of them from mom-and-pop sites. Of of them is written Sept. 10 and has a title of "Why GTA5 won't be the best GTA ever". Is this a joke OG? I expected better from you. Plus, i've yet to see a SINGLE site stating clearly  "we made a mistake about our original judgement/review for V", like you claimed.

I could go on with the same methodology as you, Googling "GTA IV" and "dissapointment", resulting in myriads of related links aswell.

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#1947

Posted 29 April 2014 - 01:35 PM

I could go on with the same methodology as you, Googling "GTA IV" and "dissapointment", resulting in myriads of related links aswell.

Except, I doubt you'll resort to such desperate measures.


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#1948

Posted 29 April 2014 - 01:36 PM

 

 

I didn't see a single site or journalist change his mind about V. 

Neither have I. Really curious to see what he comes up with.
 
 
Of course there will be sites like IGN and others that would give GTA V a brilliant score and glowing reviews. Not saying they are totally biased, but let's face it, it's GTA. With the might of a huge marketing campaign and Rockstar's reputable name behind it, V was always gonna get good reviews. But once the hype smoke cleared, the cracks began to show. You just chose to overlook them or just not look at them at all. They will not go away that is for sure. 
 
There is a plethora of gaming sites, articles, and blogs that criticized GTA V and expressed their disappointment with it not long after it's official release. If V was really so popular and well-liked as woggleman, and both of you claim it is, then it would be hard to find such a massive amount of negative material directed at the game. I found so many with ease, that surely is telling you something. If you wanna be in denial, then fine, but I will present the evidence to you a handful of sites. I'd be here if I spent all day giving you every example, there are just so many. I have provided a mix of viewpoints from reviewers, journalists, bloggers, fans, and discussion boards to give a varied insight as to why GTA V was seen as a letdown by many. Well here they are :
 
http://www.gamefaqs....auto-v/67258699
 
http://www.ign.com/b...time.453627979/
 
http://www.gamespot....gta-v-29419721/
 
http://www.gamespot....ilers-29450355/
 
http://www.lazygamer...sible-spoilers/
 
http://www.examiner....itely-not-grand
 
http://uproxx.com/ga...gta-yet/#page/6
 
http://o.canada.com/...d-disappointing
 
http://www.giantbomb...re-are-1453955/
 
http://smartknowledg...eo-game-history
 
http://whatculture.c...rove-gta-iv.php
 
And are there MANY Youtube videos of people stating how GTA V has been a big disappointment to them, you can look this up yourself. I'm sorry, but the evidence and my personal experience speaks for itself. It tells me that just as many people were disappointed with this game as much as those who loved it. 

 

 

I have to disagree General. There are still many people who like the game. Of course it's going to have it's share of negative videos but these disappointment videos aren't as big as the positive videos IMO.

 

Every video game will have these kind of articles, IV had them too. Heck even SA had it. If a game is a game. Then it is always going to have these articles. I too can list an array of articles praising V. (not from IGN) so like I said before it is a pointless debate. The only thing that matters is you enjoying the game or how much you enjoyed it. You should not be influenced by someone else's opinion.

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#1949

Posted 29 April 2014 - 01:56 PM Edited by Khan96, 30 April 2014 - 04:38 PM.

GTA 4 is a HUGE STEP for GTA series. İt is very realistic in every aspects, the game mechanics seriously improved than 3D universe but GTA 4 has a problem. This huge improvement come with a problem which kills GTA's soul a little. The problem is unwieldines.This game is too cumbersome compare other GTA's.

That is why some people hate GTA 4. It is not arcade and practical as other GTA's. It is more like a simulator in every aspects from shooting to driving. Driving is hard, cars has suspensions and you can easily lost car controls. Weapons has a recoil, you can easily be killed by a pistol and Niko is not a terminator like Carl Johnson or Victor Vance. He is slow and weak against damage.

GTA V brought back GTA's soul. GTA V brought 3D GTA's arcade crazy gameplay and GTA 4's realistic cool physics together. GTA V is a nirvana for GTA series in these days.

İt is not huge improvement like GTA 4 but it is the best GTA for now
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#1950

Posted 29 April 2014 - 02:17 PM

Well, whether people liked the story or not, the Official Trailer was about 90% or thereabouts focuses on SP cut scenes. They might have had game play and online trailers too, but that wasn't their primary marketing push.

 

I think while the Housers are involved there will always be a story to GTA. What worries me more precisely is that they think commercially a shorter story will get them more sales.

 

I think this is actually the truth - a shorter story=pleases the online and casual crowd. They're the ones that bring in the money now. Gaming isnt a thing only geeks with lots of spare time do anymore - after a long day at work some people will play for an hour in the eve instead of watching Eastenders. These people, i think, do not want a long story. This is clearly (imo) what Rockstar are thinking.

Long and deep story = hardcore gamers
Short story = casual gamers.

It's worth noting too, that I'm not saying that only the elite and best gamers want the story, but that it's not something most casual gamers want - they want "Pick up and play" games. That's my theory anyway.

 

I didn't see a single site or journalist change his mind about V. That was the case with IV back in '08, but this time most people acknowledged that V fixed all the annoyances featured in IV. Probably this trend is rising only here, where we nitpick every single detail of the game.

I still think this is subjective. Fixing IV's issues
EG: the dating/ friends calling system. V didn't fix that feature, it gutted it out. It amputated the leg when there was only an ingrowing toenail. I can't agree with this in total

 

I believe I'm correct in assuming that most people who enjoyed V thought IV was a let down and people who thought IV was a masterpiece thought V was a letdown.

 

I'm in the IV is a letdown camp if only because that game didn't have planes or tanks. I was excited for multiple protagonists, but they don't change much aside from appearance and personality after the story is done. It's more of an alternate fast travel system than anything. V has it's own share of problems, but I'm glad to be out of dull and grey liberty city, which felt just as empty to me aside from maybe the clubs in BOGT.

 

And no, I don't give a f*ck about sales or metascores here. Some people didn't like IV, others didn't like this game. It's not a problem, really.

Sales simply says who bought it and is a measure of hype, not success. 10,000,000 could buy the game but 6,000,000 could return or trade it in. That means 6,000,000 would be unhappy with the game, so technically only 4,000,000 would have the game. So yeah, sales mean nothing to me. Millions watch "britains got talent" each week, but i think it's a pile of steaming sh*te. Metascores just tell you how critics - gaming journalists - think of the game.
I'm definitely in the "V is a letdown" camp, here. There were moments, and on paper much of it pleased me - I felt a lot of hype (almost as much as i did with IV, and at times, more), but the game game and it never satisfied me like IV, San Andreas or even VC did.

 

 

To be honest Crouching was only good to get greater accuracity besides that it is useless as a means of cover as your character will be more exposed tan actually using the cover option, you also move slower and IV made it look like if you were taking a dump. I'd rather walk like the hunchback of notre damethan to look like a f*cking moron who is taking a dump.


And it's still more useful than stealth in GTA V. How many shootouts in a Hollywood action movie have you seen where the shooters stand up like hunch backs and move from point to point?

Moving while crouching may not be the fastest method, but it still provides reasonable amounts of cover and as you said improves accuracy. I use crouching in GTA IV a lot more than stealth in GTA V.

 

Crouching is far better than V's stealth pose. The stealth pose is meant to make you quiet (which is pointless as it's number one use is to evade cops and enemies who can home in on you like you have a gps tracker). Crouching makes you a smaller target. Of course Niko, Johnny, Luis look like their taking dumps, because that's what crouching looks like.  Crouching would have been welcome in V, and some games allow you to crouch-run. Why not have this in GTA V? Replacing crouch with "stealth" wasn't the right choice IMO. Instead I'd have tapping L3 take you into crouch and holding L3 take you into stealth, and you could have both at once.

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