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Oscar Pistorius Case

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johnny_zoo
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#1

Posted 05 March 2014 - 04:23 PM

I can't quite work out why he killed her. He says it was an accident, he thought she was an intruder so he opened fire. Which could have happened although I doubt it. He looks guilty just from his body language. He's always hanging his head in the dock etc.

 

If killing her was his intention my main question is WHY?

 

Did they have an argument or something and he just got really angry can shot her?

Was he picking up money from her death?

Did they have a history of domestic abuse?


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#2

Posted 05 March 2014 - 04:47 PM Edited by Werebot85, 05 March 2014 - 04:49 PM.

Well neighbours heard screaming before she was shot, others heard arguments. She was in the bathroom, with her cellphone, behind a locked door. Very strange imo. Neighbours heard a woman screaming just before and during the gunshots. I'm no expert, and I'm not saying he IS 100% guilty, but that's what it looks like to me, and that's what I'm thinking.

I've never liked the guy though, even long before he killed Reeva.
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#3

Posted 05 March 2014 - 05:59 PM

I don't think he has a leg to stand on!

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#4

Posted 05 March 2014 - 06:06 PM

I don't normally give in to media hype but I've been following this since it happened. Something about him and this whole story seems off. Innocent till proven guilty and all, but if he is telling the truth, he shouldn't just get off scott-free. He has some serious issues that need tending to if he is willing to shoot to kill another person without knowing whether there is even a threat. 

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Adriaan
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#5

Posted 05 March 2014 - 06:08 PM Edited by Adriaan, 05 March 2014 - 06:11 PM.

This is his defense, in short:

 

There was construction taking place at his home and the window directly next to the bathroom cubicle door was open. Living in South Africa, where home invasions occur in high volumes and plague residents (Reeva herself had previously gone through such a terrifying ordeal) - he claimed that he was under the impression a burglar had come through this open window, and locked himself in the bathroom cubicle. Apparently he was very fearful of such incidents, and being scared, acted in the manner he did by shooting at the door.

 

People there are very afraid, sometimes a bit paranoid. One of the neighbors who overheard things testified in court that he was busy that night researching security gates. So... yeah, people often act out fearfully when they suspect someone is entering their home. The media is filled with crazy stories of what happens during these home invasions. Giving someone that's a bit paranoid a gun can be dangerous... it certainly won't be the first time someone dies innocently like this (if his story is true).

 

 

At least, that's what he's claiming. I can definitely see what he's saying being true, although he's the only person who will probably ever know the real truth.


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#6

Posted 05 March 2014 - 06:25 PM

I think we all accidentally murdered, or have been close to accidentally murdering our girlfriend before. Things like this happen. We shouldn't blame ourselves. Instead, we should learn what to do so these senseless tragedies don't happen again. Read this article for some tips. 

 

http://www.theonion....ring-you,31359/


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#7

Posted 05 March 2014 - 06:34 PM

He has some serious issues that need tending to if he is willing to shoot to kill another person without knowing whether there is even a threat. 

Paranoid white people? In South Africa? Well I never.

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Dbns_Finest
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#8

Posted 05 March 2014 - 06:55 PM

Reeva was on a reality show here in South Africa and she was flirting a lot with a guy on there and also she was sending flirty messages to a guy on some social media who asked her to "dump that leggless loser" so maybe jealousy mixed with anger of people always putting him down because of his disablity caused him to lose control and shoot her.

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#9

Posted 05 March 2014 - 06:57 PM

(...)although I doubt it. He looks guilty just from his body language. 

 

wat

Because the best thing to do is draw conclusions from appearances. 

 

'I knew he was guilty as soon as he walked in the room! You can tell because he's _________!'

 

Yeah, you dumb. 


johnny_zoo
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#10

Posted 05 March 2014 - 09:39 PM

He has some serious issues that need tending to if he is willing to shoot to kill another person without knowing whether there is even a threat. 

 

Thats a good point.

 

Reeva was on a reality show here in South Africa and she was flirting a lot with a guy on there and also she was sending flirty messages to a guy on some social media who asked her to "dump that leggless loser" so maybe jealousy mixed with anger of people always putting him down because of his disablity caused him to lose control and shoot her.

 

This sounds interesting I remember there being a reality show she was on when the news broke last year. I wouldnt be surprised if there was a relationship element to the killing. It DID happen on Valentines Day of all days.

 

 

(...)although I doubt it. He looks guilty just from his body language. 

 

wat

Because the best thing to do is draw conclusions from appearances. 

 

'I knew he was guilty as soon as he walked in the room! You can tell because he's _________!'

 

Yeah, you dumb. 

 

Body language conveys a lot about a person. In fact most communication is done via body language some 65% I think. You're telling me that shouldnt play a factor into making a judgement about a person and whether they did or didn't do something? Also no need to resort to name calling why dont you come up with a better way of putting forward your argument as to why it wont work instead of name calling.

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#11

Posted 05 March 2014 - 10:37 PM

Body language conveys a lot about a person. In fact most communication is done via body language some 65% I think. You're telling me that shouldnt play a factor into making a judgement about a person and whether they did or didn't do something? Also no need to resort to name calling why dont you come up with a better way of putting forward your argument as to why it wont work instead of name calling.

 

Of course not.

 

This is a legal fight, with serious consequences.

Basing it off of someone as trivial and emotionally based as body language is a bad thing to do because:

a) It's making snap judgements purely based on how they look, overlooking evidence. Seriously, this is actual important stuff - the jury certainly as hell shouldn't do this. They look at evidence and decide on that, since that's the only thing they can go on - you really cannot tell anything from people's body language. Just tell me how his body language conveys the obviousness in doubting his innocence. 

b) It's thinking body language is an accurate indicator of precise emotions, truths, the thoughts from a person etc. when it really, really isn't. Even trying to believe that you can guess if someone is guilty whilst overlooking actual...anything, is stupid. 

 

Or, I can put it in a different way - say a jury is comprised of people who do this. Hey, this guy's black, of course they're guilty! Hey, this guy's wearing blue, of course they're guilty! Hey, this guy has a nervous twitch, of course they're guilty! Hey, this guy is looking really nervous, of course they're guilty! Hey, this guy isn't looking anyone in the eye, of course they're guilty! Hey, it's another black person, of course they're guilty!

 

Do you really not see a problem with this? Like, at all?

 

Also, the name calling wasn't part of putting forward my argument, thank you very much, I ain't an ad hominem kind of guy. It was there because I honestly think you dumb, and the level at which I thought you dumb was so high I felt I needed to say that you dumb. Sorry if you feel insulted that I think you dumb, but I just think that anyone who has the opinion of "'I knew he was guilty as soon as he walked in the room! You can tell because he's _________!'" really hasn't done any thinking. 


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#12

Posted 06 March 2014 - 08:48 AM

I think we all accidentally murdered, or have been close to accidentally murdering our girlfriend before. Things like this happen. We shouldn't blame ourselves. Instead, we should learn what to do so these senseless tragedies don't happen again. Read this article for some tips. 

 

http://www.theonion....ring-you,31359/

I agree. You wouldn't believe how many (ex)-girlfriends I have accidentally pushed down the staircase. Unfortunately these things happen.


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#13

Posted 06 March 2014 - 09:15 AM

RedDagger- worth mentioning briefly there's no jury in this trial. His guilt will be decided by a single judge.
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Kiffster
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#14

Posted 06 March 2014 - 09:29 AM

Yep, there are no juries in South African courts

johnny_zoo
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#15

Posted 06 March 2014 - 04:50 PM Edited by johnny_zoo, 06 March 2014 - 04:52 PM.

 

Body language conveys a lot about a person. In fact most communication is done via body language some 65% I think. You're telling me that shouldnt play a factor into making a judgement about a person and whether they did or didn't do something? Also no need to resort to name calling why dont you come up with a better way of putting forward your argument as to why it wont work instead of name calling.

Also, the name calling wasn't part of putting forward my argument, thank you very much, I ain't an ad hominem kind of guy. It was there because I honestly think you dumb, and the level at which I thought you dumb was so high I felt I needed to say that you dumb. Sorry if you feel insulted that I think you dumb, but I just think that anyone who has the opinion of "'I knew he was guilty as soon as he walked in the room! You can tell because he's _________!'" really hasn't done any thinking. 

 

 

Dont get me wrong evidence is a KEY factor and I never said it should be taken out the equation. I simply said body language should ALSO be taken into account when analysing whether a person has done something wrong or not. When someone is guilty it becomes very hard to hide this through body language, sure they can lie verbally (ANYONE can) but it becomes extremely difficult to hide what your body might be saying which is why I think he is guilty based on that. Sure a snap decision on MY part I admit, and I understand that these body cues should be observed within a controlled environment over a period of time and in clusters. However considering his facial expressions and overall demeanour to me for the few times I have seen him in the docks (recently and last year) it looks as if he did do it. Disagree if you like, my opinion anyway.

 

Since you're obviously unaware, professional investigators observe these signals when doing interviews with suspects. (Watch the Crime Investigation Channel once in a while instead of the one that shows you how to insult people on forums)

 

Finally I stumbled on this article which might interest you.

http://www.dailymail...aking-toll.html

 

Finally if you're still compelled to call me dumb can you at least form the correct sentence.

 

You are dumb.

 

Saying you dumb, you dumb etc just means you are dumb.

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Adriaan
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#16

Posted 06 March 2014 - 07:43 PM

Yep, there are no juries in South African courts

 

Can't decide if this is a good or a bad thing (generally speaking).


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#17

Posted 06 March 2014 - 07:55 PM

He says it was an accident, he thought she was an intruder so he opened fire.

 

34895547.jpg

 

The vast majority of people believe Pistorius shot and killed his girlfriend after an argument escalated. The argument was believed to happen for an hour.


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#18

Posted 06 March 2014 - 08:14 PM Edited by Adriaan, 06 March 2014 - 08:15 PM.

The vast majority of people believe Pistorius shot and killed his girlfriend after an argument escalated.


Two questions:

1. Source?
2. Comic Sans??

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#19

Posted 06 March 2014 - 08:22 PM Edited by Werebot85, 06 March 2014 - 08:38 PM.


Yep, there are no juries in South African courts

 
Can't decide if this is a good or a bad thing (generally speaking).
I personally think it's a good thing to be honest. A jury system in our courts would just be a total mess/circus. Best to leave the decision making to the judges, who are actually really good, tough and fair, although I don't always agree with their verdicts. Look at the Fred van der Vyver case - I personally believe (what do I know haha) that he was somehow involved in Lotz' murder, but he walked free, acquitted of all charges by more than one court. Also Shabir Shaik etc. Still, I don't think a jury system would work - not in SA

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#20

Posted 06 March 2014 - 09:15 PM

Regardless if he is innocemt or not hes f*cked. He has a female judge and her opinion is the only one that matters

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#21

Posted 06 March 2014 - 09:25 PM

 

The vast majority of people believe Pistorius shot and killed his girlfriend after an argument escalated.


Two questions:

1. Source?
2. Comic Sans??

 

 

Because the text font is clearly related to this discussion.  :lol: 

 

My source is from the court. If you look at the evidence against Oscar Pistorius, an extremely vital witness has confirmed that Oscar and his girlfriend argued for an hour. From my recollection, I remember that two witnesses stated that Oscar and his girlfriend had been arguing. Only one witness has confirmed that the argument lasted for an hour.


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#22

Posted 06 March 2014 - 09:32 PM Edited by WhatsStrength, 06 March 2014 - 09:34 PM.

First time I've heard of this case. From what I've read so far, he's made a few conflicting statements based on the evidence. For example, he said he didn't have on his prosthetic legs when he shot into the bathroom, but the trajectory of the bullets suggest that they had been fired at a downward slope directly at the toilet so he would have had to have been standing, or for some strange reason, raising his arm high up and angling his wrist downward.

 

Also, would he have not heard her screams after the first bullet? Only reason this would make sense is if somehow the first bullet went directly for her skull or he was trigger happy and just sprayed bullets.


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#23

Posted 07 March 2014 - 12:06 AM

My source is from the court. If you look at the evidence against Oscar Pistorius, an extremely vital witness has confirmed that Oscar and his girlfriend argued for an hour. From my recollection, I remember that two witnesses stated that Oscar and his girlfriend had been arguing. Only one witness has confirmed that the argument lasted for an hour.


Only one witness claimed an argument directly preceded the shooting. You can't use this as and say "The vast majority of people believe Pistorius shot and killed his girlfriend after an argument escalated". She sounded quite a bit confused in her testimony, which was inconsistent with her own husband's version of events.

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#24

Posted 07 March 2014 - 12:15 AM

The woman locking herself in the bathroom certainly suggests there was a conflict she was attempting to hide from. I suppose it may have just been an odd habit but I doubt it because the whole burglar story makes no sense to me.

I think they were arguing and he murdered her in rage.
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#25

Posted 07 March 2014 - 12:55 AM Edited by Adriaan, 07 March 2014 - 12:59 AM.

The woman locking herself in the bathroom certainly suggests there was a conflict she was attempting to hide from. I suppose it may have just been an odd habit but I doubt it because the whole burglar story makes no sense to me.

I think they were arguing and he murdered her in rage.

 

All speculation. And that's good. But I could turn all of that around and speculate it in this fashion:

 

 

The woman (Reeva) who was killed had previously gone through an ordeal where burglars had broken into her home. She locked herself in a bedroom, until they went away. According to friends and family, she was very traumatized by this event (as would be expected).

 

Going back to what you said, perhaps this happened:

 

 

She went to the loo. Oscar woke up by a sound in a bathroom (which had a cubicle inside it [where she was]). Directly outside the door of this cubicle was a window, without burglar bars. There was a ladder still outside from renovations during the day that could have allowed access to inside the home by a burglar. Suspecting this to be the case, Oscar yelled in the direction of the bathroom (which was also in direction of this window) to "Get out of my house!". Hearing this, Reeva, who was in the bathroom, thought someone had broken in. Fearing for her life, she had locked the door (as she did in a previous event where burglars had broken into a home).

 

 

See what I mean... it's a series of events that could be looked at from different angles and scenarios.


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#26

Posted 07 March 2014 - 02:54 AM Edited by WBaker, 07 March 2014 - 10:55 AM.

She went to the loo. Oscar woke up by a sound in a bathroom (which had a cubicle inside it [where she was]). Directly outside the door of this cubicle was a window, without burglar bars. There was a ladder still outside from renovations during the day that could have allowed access to inside the home by a burglar. Suspecting this to be the case, Oscar yelled in the direction of the bathroom (which was also in direction of this window) to "Get out of my house!". Hearing this, Reeva, who was in the bathroom, thought someone had broken in. Fearing for her life, she had locked the door (as she did in a previous event where burglars had broken into a home).
 
 
See what I mean... it's a series of events that could be looked at from different angles and scenarios.

Sure, that's also plausible. I have no proof as to what I think happened. As you pointed out it is merely speculation. If this was cut and dry there wouldn't be much to discuss about it.

One thing that bugs me, who shoots through a door like that? The thought makes me cringe since it goes against the most basic gun safety principles. You always need to know what you're shooting at and what's behind your target. At best it's still negligent homicide.

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#27

Posted 07 March 2014 - 03:47 AM Edited by Audiophile, 07 March 2014 - 03:49 AM.

I have been following this case since the shooting happened last February.

 

There is indeed something off about him, something off about his story. If he didn't kill her knowingly, I would be surprised. His story sounds like something you make up when you know you're done for and just want to minimize the damage as much as you possibly can. If you're going to be charged for the death of someone, there is a big difference between mediated and pre-meditated. I'd prefer to go to prison for manslaughter rather than first-degree murder (Canadian Law here). The difference between that is what defence you use and if the court believes it.

 

It was pretty negligent of him to just shoot through the door like that without knowing who it really was, what he was shooting at, and then to shoot as much as he did. I would say it was even criminally negligent of him as his actions showed a clear disregard for anyone around him. Most reasonable people in that situation would not have taken the action that he had. And a court judges your actions by what a reasonable person would have done. Do courts in SA follow that?

 

To me it sounds like a series of events he constructed. Who knows, maybe it was an accident like he says but something sounds off. Maybe he was smart about it and made sure that when he did murder her, there were things in place to make a defence like this somewhat believable. 

 

Awfully convenient that around the time she was murdered he had construction going on and in such a way that would make a story about an intruder plausible. I am by no means saying he had construction going on just for this reason, but if you are going to commit a murder, it would be good for your defence if certain things aligned. If that makes sense at all. 

 

I just cannot for the life of me understand why he would shoot through the door like that and that many times. Did he think they broke in to his house to use the sh*tter? He probably wasn't thinking and the adrenaline and fear of the situation overtook him. That or it's just a story as I wrote earlier. He will have to pay for her death, it's just a matter of how much he will have to in terms of time. 

 

Anyway, correct me if I am wrong on any of this. It's late right now and I've had a long day so I wouldn't be surprised. 

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#28

Posted 07 March 2014 - 10:44 AM Edited by EphemeralStar, 07 March 2014 - 10:45 AM.

 

 

Body language conveys a lot about a person. In fact most communication is done via body language some 65% I think. You're telling me that shouldnt play a factor into making a judgement about a person and whether they did or didn't do something? Also no need to resort to name calling why dont you come up with a better way of putting forward your argument as to why it wont work instead of name calling.

Also, the name calling wasn't part of putting forward my argument, thank you very much, I ain't an ad hominem kind of guy. It was there because I honestly think you dumb, and the level at which I thought you dumb was so high I felt I needed to say that you dumb. Sorry if you feel insulted that I think you dumb, but I just think that anyone who has the opinion of "'I knew he was guilty as soon as he walked in the room! You can tell because he's _________!'" really hasn't done any thinking. 

 

 

Dont get me wrong evidence is a KEY factor and I never said it should be taken out the equation. I simply said body language should ALSO be taken into account when analysing whether a person has done something wrong or not. When someone is guilty it becomes very hard to hide this through body language, sure they can lie verbally (ANYONE can) but it becomes extremely difficult to hide what your body might be saying which is why I think he is guilty based on that. Sure a snap decision on MY part I admit, and I understand that these body cues should be observed within a controlled environment over a period of time and in clusters. However considering his facial expressions and overall demeanour to me for the few times I have seen him in the docks (recently and last year) it looks as if he did do it. Disagree if you like, my opinion anyway.

 

Since you're obviously unaware, professional investigators observe these signals when doing interviews with suspects. (Watch the Crime Investigation Channel once in a while instead of the one that shows you how to insult people on forums)

 

Finally I stumbled on this article which might interest you.

http://www.dailymail...aking-toll.html

 

Finally if you're still compelled to call me dumb can you at least form the correct sentence.

 

You are dumb.

 

Saying you dumb, you dumb etc just means you are dumb.

 

I agree, he's dumb. Body language is a really big deal, especially when people accused of murder show little or no signs of remorse or sadness about the death of the person they killed that they supposedly cared for. (I don't know if this is the case for this guy, just using this as an example.) 


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#29

Posted 07 March 2014 - 12:41 PM

Yeah in my advocacy class, body language and picking up on it on witnesses during cross-examination was a big deal.

It's not 100% but it definitely plays a part. There was one case here where a Muslim woman wanted to wear her headress when giving evidence to the court and the defendant's lawyer argued he cannot effectively cross examine a witness whose face is shielded because he won't be able to pick up on her body language.

Most of our communication isn't verbal but displayed through body language and gestures.

The more you know....

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#30

Posted 07 March 2014 - 12:54 PM

The woman locking herself in the bathroom certainly suggests there was a conflict she was attempting to hide from. I suppose it may have just been an odd habit but I doubt it because the whole burglar story makes no sense to me.

Precisely! Why else would you lock the bathroom door?

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