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[SPOILERS] Johnny was an idiot, Trevor wasn't so bad, and here'

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lol232
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#1

Posted 02 March 2014 - 04:49 PM Edited by lol232, 03 January 2015 - 10:35 PM.

I'm not sure if this belongs to V or TLaD, but I'll post it in V.
I won't be using any spoiler tags, so proceed at your own risk.














































I decided to replay GTA IV: TLaD for the sake of it, and then I realised that Johnny wasn't so good as everyone says.
I think Johnny K. was a f*cking idiot, and it's not only he started using meth because of Ashley, but because he ripped off Ray Boccino.
First off, he was too desperate for Ashley, she is the one who killed him.
Trevor just did him a favour, since he went THAT bad.

Now second, I mentioned that he ripped off Ray Boccino, well, exactly, he ripped him off for no reason, if the deal went fine The Lost MC could have been given $1,000,000 yet he decided to f*cking rip him off, Ray Boccino did NOTHING, and I repeat NOTHING wrong.
Then, once he ripped him off, Ray got pissed off and wanted him eliminated.

And third, Trevor wasn't so bad as everyone calls him "a f*cking psycho that kills everyone", I actually liked Trevor, he was a bit weird from time to time, but that doesn't mean he didn't have personality. And even though gta wikia is full of sh*t, this is true:
Trevor is shown to be disgusted by racism, misogyny, as well as self-righteous and hypocritical attitudes which he considers "fake." He criticizes the Minute Men and the LSPD for their racist behaviour, reprimands Wade for his remarks toward Ashley, and threatens Martin for mistreating Patricia. After torturing Mr. K, he mocks FIB's usage of torture as a means of interrogation, claiming it is only a method of showing dominance and that the government fails to admit this.
Also, he didn't do all those jobs for the FIB for no reason, he actually did that because he thought he can get Brad out of the pen that way.

So to finish this, Johnny wasn't exactly the angel, and Trevor is not quite the devil.
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rotnude
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#2

Posted 02 March 2014 - 06:03 PM

Astute observation man. The things you mentioned are stuff that ppl tend to overlook. Trevor seem like a nice guy underneath the crazy exterior.
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Schismatist
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#3

Posted 03 March 2014 - 04:12 AM Edited by Schismatist, 03 March 2014 - 04:13 AM.

I wouldn't necessarily refer to Johnny as an idiot. I've been doing the Possible Trinity method of going through GTAIV and its DLC, and, I have to say, I really have a difficult time sympathizing with Johnny and his actions, perhaps its because I've never really cared for the ridiculous patriotic and boisterous attitude of biker culture. Though, I feel like Johnny was trying to break from that, throughout the game he's mentioning how things just aren't as fun anymore, and how it's all about business. Besides caring about the business aspect of The Lost though, he definitely has a sense of commitment, as does Trevor.

I haven't got to the point of TLAD where the whole diamond fiasco starts, but so far I agree that Ray seemingly did nothing wrong, besides provoking The Lost and making them all feel as if they were pawns. I'll try and get back to this topic once I reach that point.

By the way, can like, ANYONE describe to me Terry and Clay's characteristics? I haven't been hanging out with them granted, but so far they seem to completely lack any character. Angus definitely feels like the best character in the game, it's a shame we barely see him.
 

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#4

Posted 03 March 2014 - 09:29 AM

if the deal went fine The Lost MC could have been given $1,000,000 yet he decided to f*cking rip him off, Ray Boccino did NOTHING, and I repeat NOTHING wrong.

But it didn't (courtesy of Luis) so Johnny took the risk and got away with the money, he probably wouldn't see it again if he didn't. But maybe it's because Ray f*cked Ashley before the diamond deal, so anything's possible.

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Fallcreek
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#5

Posted 03 March 2014 - 09:43 AM Edited by Fallcreek, 03 March 2014 - 09:48 AM.

 

if the deal went fine The Lost MC could have been given $1,000,000 yet he decided to f*cking rip him off, Ray Boccino did NOTHING, and I repeat NOTHING wrong.

But it didn't (courtesy of Luis) so Johnny took the risk and got away with the money, he probably wouldn't see it again if he didn't. But maybe it's because Ray f*cked Ashley before the diamond deal, so anything's possible.

 

Yeah, he's right. Luis pretty much f*cked up the whole deal, having a cause and effect for the whole operation because they would've been under a lot of heat by the LCPD and the Mob, so Johnny took a leap of faith and took the money. I mean, why wouldn't he? His life was going down the toilet with the MC anyway, Billy's in jail, Brian's dead, half of The Lost MC is shot dead and Johnny has that deadbeat Ashley he feels guilty for, and besides.. Could Johnny really have trusted Ray to give them their share of the take? Throughout the whole IV trinity, it's shown that Ray is unreliable, so ..maybe not, who knows.

 

Which brings up the point of Johnny being weak. Trevor actually sums it up when he's 'racing' Ron back to Grapeseed "He was weak for the girl and weak for the meth" or something like that. Johnny's more weak than anything, instead of a "f*cking idiot" as the OP described. My Father was the same as Johnny in this aspect, he just couldn't let go, he couldn't leave Ashley to kill herself. 

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Budweiser Addict
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#6

Posted 03 March 2014 - 09:43 AM

 

if the deal went fine The Lost MC could have been given $1,000,000 yet he decided to f*cking rip him off, Ray Boccino did NOTHING, and I repeat NOTHING wrong.

But it didn't (courtesy of Luis) so Johnny took the risk and got away with the money, he probably wouldn't see it again if he didn't. But maybe it's because Ray f*cked Ashley before the diamond deal, so anything's possible.

 

That's the way I always viewed it too. Had Luis not f*cked up the deal, Johnny would have walked away with the $1,000,000. That said however we never really knew what Ray's motives were, for all we know he could have planned to simply send Niko out to eliminate the Lost once the deal is done... We don't know, Ray's very shady behaviour is hard to predict.

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lol232
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#7

Posted 03 March 2014 - 11:21 AM Edited by lol232, 03 March 2014 - 11:23 AM.

Luis is not to blame, though, he took what belonged to him. Johnny is the one who stole the diamonds at the first place.

Johnny was planning to rip him off in the beginning of "Diamonds in the Rough" anyway; you can hear him saying "We might get to rip off the guido" or something like that. He was planning to rip him off from the very start.

Johnny could have returned the money anyway, so why didn't he?
I really wasn't surprised one bit when Ray ordered Niko to kill Jim.

I doubt it's because Ray f*cked Ashley before the diamond deal because Johnny didn't know about that, either.

Johnny's actions would have gotten him killed anyway, it was just a matter of time.
He shouldn't have been weak for Ashley, because that, he turned a normal anti-narcotic gang into metheads.
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#8

Posted 03 March 2014 - 02:14 PM Edited by liquidussnake119, 03 March 2014 - 02:14 PM.

Yeah, people seem to forget that for all the crap Johnny gives Billy for doing stupid **** and provoking wars, he went and provoked the very wars that destroyed the Alderney Lost MC.

I like Johnny, but his whole story is about how he just keeps ****ing up while having the best of intentions.


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#9

Posted 03 March 2014 - 02:44 PM Edited by Gta_V_Fan_101, 03 March 2014 - 02:45 PM.

Completely agree with ya. Johnny shouldn't have ripped Ray off. 

 

I was wondering why he did that, as well.


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#10

Posted 03 March 2014 - 02:51 PM

Oh god, I thought I was the only one not liking Johnny K.

 

Thank you, lol232, my savior!

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eluaah
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#11

Posted 03 March 2014 - 03:33 PM

Luis is not to blame, though, he took what belonged to him. Johnny is the one who stole the diamonds at the first place.

Johnny was planning to rip him off in the beginning of "Diamonds in the Rough" anyway; you can hear him saying "We might get to rip off the guido" or something like that. He was planning to rip him off from the very start.

Johnny could have returned the money anyway, so why didn't he?
I really wasn't surprised one bit when Ray ordered Niko to kill Jim.

I doubt it's because Ray f*cked Ashley before the diamond deal because Johnny didn't know about that, either.

Johnny's actions would have gotten him killed anyway, it was just a matter of time.
He shouldn't have been weak for Ashley, because that, he turned a normal anti-narcotic gang into metheads.

Johnny did know about Ray screwing Ashley though and while he wasn't that mad at Ray about it, he wasn't too thrilled either. So he never liked Ray. Also, ripping Boccino off wasn't all that unethical either, considering that it was Ray who in the first place ordered the diamonds to be stolen from the chef and Tony, so you know, the Lost was only ripping off someone who rips others off. Being a biker gang the Lost aren't as business minded as the mob for example so stealing something from someone who f*cks the ex-girlfriend of their leader and is a bit of a piece of sh*t anyways isn't that unheard of.


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#12

Posted 06 March 2014 - 02:44 AM

Yes. He was an idiot for letting Ashley get away with such BS. Shoulda dumped her ass right from the get go. :)

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#13

Posted 06 March 2014 - 03:09 PM

Niko and Johnny are well developed. Thing about Johnny is that he was imperfect - he was far, far, from perfect. He f*cked things up, and TLAD was the story of how sh*t just kept getting worse. I don't feel any of this undermines his character. What I feel does undermine his character is how he was portrayed as a tough biker, surviving shootouts, bike crashes etc, yet in V he's the complete opposite of his TLAD character. I simply found it difficult to believe. I suspect Rockstar just wanted to employ a shock tactic to this end, and T v J was it. I felt an entire story could have instead sprung up from it.

 

Trevor killed Johnny simply because he was f*cked up after realising Michael was still alive. If he didn't have the TV on, he'd probably just have walked away or challenged J to a straight up fight. Or not, I'm not really sure. What I do think though, is that the character of J was ballsed up, and that he's some weedy pussy, almost crying on T's shoulder. Sure it's plausible that he could have gone back to meth (i personally don't buy it, after all of TLAD) the entire gang moved to LS (which raises the question: what happened to the perennial AoD that were supposedly a nation-wide establishment? Wiped out for a dozen of newcomers? I doubt that.

 

What i feel could have happened instead was for R* to take a different approach: instead of a simple Cutscene where J gets killed, instead for them to argue, perhaps fight, and for a rivalry to grow, which as i said, could lead to a string of missions and a subplot. In another world J and T should be friends, as they are actually pretty similar. The omission of the AoD is probably an issue here. If they were included (they should have been), the Lost should have been a small-bit biker gang that, in essence could have worked with Trevor. I get the sense that there was some kind of affiliation between J and T prior to the events of V, and perhaps they might have worked together...

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#14

Posted 06 March 2014 - 03:16 PM

Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but from since a lot of Trevor's GTA Online missions involve you fighting the Lost, it seems that Trevor never liked Johnny and planned to undermine him and his business for a while, and eventually chose to put him out of his misery in Mr.Phillips. Also there's a random encounter where you can help a lost member to escape from the cops, who tells you that the AoD are finished in the area...


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#15

Posted 06 March 2014 - 03:48 PM Edited by Markhosdangerous, 06 March 2014 - 03:48 PM.

I don't know why so much crying about Johnny K. When I saw him was a great surprise because it was those kind of rare moments when you see a main character from another GTA before the years... And make clear that it's very unlikely that you could play as an old main character on other GTA. So his appearance was a great point and a great way for R* to say: hey lets forget about the past and move on!.

 

In fact I found that scene funny, specially the part of:

"Take off your pants cowboy aight? Let's...Let's f*ck!"

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#16

Posted 07 March 2014 - 12:39 AM

Good point about Trevor's online stuff. But to me that further undermines the entire plotline. In my eye, imo, it just doesn't match up.


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#17

Posted 30 November 2014 - 08:32 PM

It was even funnier when Trevor went into rage mode, and could barely push a 115 lb druggie down who was off guard, and Trevor is considered bad ass because of this. lol

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#18

Posted 30 November 2014 - 10:11 PM Edited by Eurotrash, 30 November 2014 - 10:11 PM.

Johnny was probably the only character that wasn't a hypocrite. Definitely the best protagonist in GTA IV.

 

Niko had an interesting personality but he was a f*cking idiot, and Lewis or Lois or whatever his name wasn't even interesting enough for me to remember his name.

 

GTA V protagonists seem to follow Lewis' model.


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#19

Posted 01 December 2014 - 01:46 AM

Trevor is a cannibal. Had Rockstar not implied that Trevor literally eats people (on more than one occasion), I might not think Trevor is such an awful person. But the cannibal thing makes him irredeemable. 


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#20

Posted 01 December 2014 - 01:35 PM

Trevor is a cannibal. Had Rockstar not implied that Trevor literally eats people (on more than one occasion), I might not think Trevor is such an awful person. But the cannibal thing makes him irredeemable. 

 

Well I guess I was wrong, there is a point to the "other two" endings after all.


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#21

Posted 01 December 2014 - 06:35 PM

Niko and Johnny are well developed. Thing about Johnny is that he was imperfect - he was far, far, from perfect. He f*cked things up, and TLAD was the story of how sh*t just kept getting worse. I don't feel any of this undermines his character. What I feel does undermine his character is how he was portrayed as a tough biker, surviving shootouts, bike crashes etc, yet in V he's the complete opposite of his TLAD character. I simply found it difficult to believe. I suspect Rockstar just wanted to employ a shock tactic to this end, and T v J was it. I felt an entire story could have instead sprung up from it.
 
Trevor killed Johnny simply because he was f*cked up after realising Michael was still alive. If he didn't have the TV on, he'd probably just have walked away or challenged J to a straight up fight. Or not, I'm not really sure. What I do think though, is that the character of J was ballsed up, and that he's some weedy pussy, almost crying on T's shoulder. Sure it's plausible that he could have gone back to meth (i personally don't buy it, after all of TLAD) the entire gang moved to LS (which raises the question: what happened to the perennial AoD that were supposedly a nation-wide establishment? Wiped out for a dozen of newcomers? I doubt that.
 
What i feel could have happened instead was for R* to take a different approach: instead of a simple Cutscene where J gets killed, instead for them to argue, perhaps fight, and for a rivalry to grow, which as i said, could lead to a string of missions and a subplot. In another world J and T should be friends, as they are actually pretty similar. The omission of the AoD is probably an issue here. If they were included (they should have been), the Lost should have been a small-bit biker gang that, in essence could have worked with Trevor. I get the sense that there was some kind of affiliation between J and T prior to the events of V, and perhaps they might have worked together...

The Lost had 5 years to take over. Terry, Clay, the new recruits, Johnny and his money is enough to get the AoD to dissapear and partner with the local buisness of TP Inc.

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#22

Posted 02 December 2014 - 12:30 PM Edited by Octavio89, 02 December 2014 - 12:32 PM.

Johnny was a crack head, and I could't care less about him. Don't know what the fuss about him was about. And I did play 'the lost damned'. I just never could relate to those anti social pieces of crap- bikers.

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#23

Posted 02 December 2014 - 07:38 PM

Johnny was a crack head, and I could't care less about him. Don't know what the fuss about him was about. And I did play 'the lost damned'. I just never could relate to those anti social pieces of crap- bikers.

 

Trevor is a crack head too, lol.


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#24

Posted 03 December 2014 - 02:14 PM

Op you're right and I agree with many things. Johnny had potential in GTA 4. But they screwed the character up in TLAD. Making him some soft hearted clown acting politically correct. ..at least to a degree you can say that. In front of Liz Torres he acted like a chump and he was a bad leader. Ray Boccino really did nothing wrong. ..but in TLAD rockstar tried to justify the money rip off...ray sent guys to kill Johnny on the way out of the museum. Jim, Terry and Clay, even Angus were much better characters than that loser johnny. I'm glad he got portrayed like some methhead and Trevor killed him.
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#25

Posted 03 December 2014 - 03:29 PM

 

Johnny was a crack head, and I could't care less about him. Don't know what the fuss about him was about. And I did play 'the lost damned'. I just never could relate to those anti social pieces of crap- bikers.

 

Trevor is a crack head too, lol.

 

 

But a funny one :p


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#26

Posted 03 December 2014 - 08:16 PM

 

But a funny one :p

 

 

Are you saying cannibalism, rape, torture, murdering for kicks and general sociopathic behavior are funny?

 

I agree.

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lol232
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#27

Posted 03 January 2015 - 10:44 PM Edited by lol232, 03 January 2015 - 10:51 PM.

But a funny one :p

 
Are you saying cannibalism, -No, he wasn't a cannibal.
rape, -No, he didn't rape.
torture, -He was tortured because he was forced to - he also thought he was going to get Brad out of prison that way
murdering for kicks -...That's GTA for you.
and general sociopathic behavior -Like every GTA protagonist?
are funny?
 
I agree.

I'm not a huge fan of Trevor nowdays either.
 

Jim, Terry and Clay, even Angus were much better characters than that loser johnny.

I don't exactly think Johnny was bad, but I agree, Jim for instance, he was a much better character than Johnny.

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#28

Posted 03 January 2015 - 10:48 PM

A lot of people who hate Trevor don't realise we're playing a GTA game, so of course he's going to be that guy who does the most inhumane things imaginable. 

 

Also, Trevor isn't the only one who hates Johnny, even the Lost hate him, if listen to some the dialouge they say, they will mention how Johnny ruined the gang and Billy was a much better leader.


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#29

Posted 03 January 2015 - 11:38 PM

Johnny didn`t f*ck nothing, it was that bitch Ashley who screwed everything. Everything bad that happened to TLMC and Johnny was Ashley`s fault. Johnny should`ve popped her a long ago.

 

As for Ray Boccino, do you really think he is such a nice guy? He`s a f*cking slimeball hypocrite. Do a museum piece in TLAD and kill Niko as Johnny. Ray will later say to Johnny that he never liked Niko anyway..

 

Enough said about that little c*nt, ripping him off  was the only right thing to do if only Jim wouldn`t get killed because of it.


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#30

Posted 04 January 2015 - 12:45 AM

Every protagonist is a cold blooded murderer and not a moral upstanding person so why do people get their panties in a bunch over Trevor? Some people sound like Jack Thompson when talking about him.

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