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"Living, breathing world" Not exactly

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Official General
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#61

Posted 01 March 2014 - 10:26 PM Edited by Official General, 01 March 2014 - 10:27 PM.

Remember that line from the trailer? I certainly do. After spending countless hours in every GTA since 3, I was expecting a truly remarkable "living breathing world." But was that really what we got? I'm not so certain.

 

For starters what makes a living breathing world? I would say "life" does. And that life to me, comes from all the different people walking around in the game world. This means drivers and pedestrians. I've invested probably close to 200 hours in GTA V just wandering around in free roam checking out various locations and just observing the game world, and while it is beautiful, it's far from "alive" as the trailers liked to describe it. Everything feels very scripted, and even then there is not much going on at any given time. The most life you can hope for is a cop car speeding by chasing a random civilian and maybe if you're lucky, they get into a gun fight.

 

 

Now let me contrast this to a scenario I experienced last night in San Andreas:

 

- Walking down the street and bump into a drug dealer

- He asks me if I would like to buy any, I say naw man.

- Decide I might want to kill him and take his money so I start setting up in stealth for a knife kill

- Another pedestrian approaches him and does a deal, holy sh*t

- As soon as the dealer hands the product to the random pedestrians a cop car pulls up with lights flashing

- The officer gets out and draws his weapon on the dealer, intent on arresting him

- A small gun fight ensues, and the dealer flees on foot

- The cops chased him down and killed him

- Shortly afterwards an ambulance came and revived the drug dealer

 

 

This whole scene that played out totally at random, in a game almost a decade old, felt more alive than any other moment I've had in GTA V. It was executed so perfectly you would think the cops were running a sting operation on the dealer, it was that good. And yet it wasn't, it was just by chance that a cop happened to be patrolling the area and witnessed a drug deal going on between two random pedestrians, and jumped into action. It was incredible to witness and really made me that much more aware of why San Andreas was titled the best game of the PS2 generation by IGN. It truly was a marvel for it's time, and still is giving me quality experiences to this day.

 

And this reminded me, where are the patrolling cops in V? What happened to making arrests? Why are there no drug dealers approaching Franklin asking him if he wants any?

 

Where is this living breathing world you advertised to me Rockstar?

 

 

Sure the graphics are pretty, but this game is about as dead as a free roam game can get. And that hurts to say, because what GTA V does right, it does amazing. The gunplay, the graphics, the missions all are fun and incredibly detailed. But man, that free roam is really truly dead.

 

Thoughts?

 

Brilliant post. I totally agree with you. And yeah you are right. Like I said before, San Andreas sh*ts all over GTA V and SA is not even my favorite GTA (it's my second best). Even Vice City felt much more alive than V, and VC is older than SA.

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#62

Posted 01 March 2014 - 10:35 PM

Well, more random events (not random mission) would be great. I haven't played GTA V yet but as I am PC gamer, but on IV I didn't notice much of the life in the city, although I mainly played missions, didn't do much free roaming.

Anyway, since in GTA games there is just too much killing, excessive realism would not be good, so they need to make the balance between realistic peds, and shooting range targets that most players use them for. But if you kill only one person, maybe the ER could come, and if you kill everyone in a region, they don't respawn peds until you leave 1-2 blocks away.


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#63

Posted 01 March 2014 - 11:37 PM Edited by SonOfLiberty, 01 March 2014 - 11:41 PM.

Even after 4 playthroughs I agree it doesn't really feel like a "living, breathing world". From my experience the peds rarely do anything besides standing around or walking. You might get the occasional window browser, but it's no where near good enough especially given the way it was hyped before release. Most of the unique things people talk about are so rare it's not even worth complimenting.

 

I haven't played SA for a long time and even then I can remember it feeling more dynamic than GTA V does. GTA IV does it better too.

 

If I had to sum it up it would be pretty much like walking around a movie set full of actors. Everything feels so forced and fake.

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SmoothGetaway
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#64

Posted 01 March 2014 - 11:41 PM

Well it comes down to suspension of disbelief. I don't go to a magic show and yell out "You didn't pull a quarter out of that kids ear" or "Medical science says its impossible to cut someone in half and then put them together again!".

GTA is no different, they are providing an illusion. That being said, I preferred patrolling cops in IV as well as the subway (yeah I'm probably the only one that uses it :cool: ) having a schedule instead of just appearing when I'm near the tracks like in V.

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#65

Posted 01 March 2014 - 11:42 PM

If I had to sum it up it would be pretty much like walking around a movie set full of actors. Everything feels so forced and fake.

 

Precisely.

 

Someone might say "well it's supposed to be superficial and fake, it's LA afterall!" I say no. There's making the pedestrians rather airy and cautious panicky morons, and then there's downright stripping features from the way the AI can function. It's a shame really, and the only thing we can really do is look forward to modding the game back to what it should have been once it comes to PC :(

 

Although seeing that picture that Raavi posted does give me hope. If that could be done on IV, I'm sure similar could be done to V.


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#66

Posted 02 March 2014 - 12:03 AM

Actually in IV police arresting a civilian was a heavily scripted event, they just needed to get pretty near the guy to get him to put his hands up. After that they just put him in a car and they drive aimlessly then he gets out, such dynamic. much better than GTAV. Such wow. better AI. Not.

I think we need to define what scripted means. Everything in the game is scripted obviously, but I think a high level of linear script hand-holding is what constitutes to being "scripted".

In GTA IV for example, if a pedestrian hit you and a cop was around, he'd order the suspect to put his hands in the air and put him in the back of a squad car. This is scripted of course but it can occur anywhere as long as there is a suspect and a police officer and anyone can be the perp. A better example might be in San Andreas where if a Balla drives into GSF territory, nearby Families will shoot at the car or attempt to carjack him out of it. This is what I'd consider unscripted because the event is malleable and defined by the behavioral settings of peds so they're creating these events themselves.

A scripted event, in my definition, would be when The Lost are robbing the Sub-Urban in Vinewood. This is an entirely predetermined event and it'll only trigger by entering the zone. You can hang around Sub-Urban all day jerking off and you'll never see a Lost van pull up and rob it because it's so heavily having it's hand held by the strict predetermined nature of the script.

The problem with GTA V is that everything is so strictly predetermined and that makes it lose it's liveliness. Don't get me wrong.. I do like the scripted predetermined peds and events, they do make the atmosphere feel more realistic, but it needs to be mixed with unscripted peds that can create events themselves like SA did. A mix of that would just make things so much better IMO

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NYC PATROL
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#67

Posted 02 March 2014 - 12:06 AM Edited by NYC PATROL, 02 March 2014 - 12:08 AM.

I do agree. There is a lot of stuff R* could have done/added in. I don't want to kiss their a$$ too much but I think if R* wanted to do most of this stuff they would have. I put a lot of blame on the 512mb of RAM in the 360, PS3. Real handcuff last gen. V is also a very graphics heavy game for such a large open world on consoles.

 

This stuff shouldn't be a problem on the PS4, XB1. So everyone spam R* Mouthoff with all of your ideas lol. They are brainstorming for the next one probably.


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#68

Posted 02 March 2014 - 12:15 AM

 

Actually in IV police arresting a civilian was a heavily scripted event, they just needed to get pretty near the guy to get him to put his hands up. After that they just put him in a car and they drive aimlessly then he gets out, such dynamic. much better than GTAV. Such wow. better AI. Not.

I think we need to define what scripted means. Everything in the game is scripted obviously, but I think a high level of linear script hand-holding is what constitutes to being "scripted".

In GTA IV for example, if a pedestrian hit you and a cop was around, he'd order the suspect to put his hands in the air and put him in the back of a squad car. This is scripted of course but it can occur anywhere as long as there is a suspect and a police officer and anyone can be the perp. A better example might be in San Andreas where if a Balla drives into GSF territory, nearby Families will shoot at the car or attempt to carjack him out of it. This is what I'd consider unscripted because the event is malleable and defined by the behavioral settings of peds so they're creating these events themselves.

A scripted event, in my definition, would be when The Lost are robbing the Sub-Urban in Vinewood. This is an entirely predetermined event and it'll only trigger by entering the zone. You can hang around Sub-Urban all day jerking off and you'll never see a Lost van pull up and rob it because it's so heavily having it's hand held by the strict predetermined nature of the script.

The problem with GTA V is that everything is so strictly predetermined and that makes it lose it's liveliness. Don't get me wrong.. I do like the scripted predetermined peds and events, they do make the atmosphere feel more realistic, but it needs to be mixed with unscripted peds that can create events themselves like SA did. A mix of that would just make things so much better IMO

 

 

Exactly. Those "random" events are far more scripted than anything that occurs in SA and IV. I've never seen peds engage in combat randomly in GTA V. In SA and IV as you said it can occur anywhere at anytime.

 

It's a shame because I think the game world itself looks fantastic, but it doesn't feel anywhere near being alive IMO.

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#69

Posted 02 March 2014 - 01:16 AM

Another "bingo" post there [µT]. That's exactly what I feel when I mean scripted random events in V versus the true random events in past GTA's.


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#70

Posted 02 March 2014 - 01:27 AM

Pedestrians interactions are just background, though.

 

The new police dynamic, and being able to hide from them fairly realistically, is a major step toward a living city. That's actually integral to the gameplay, so it's far more important.

 

Gone are the days when we just race in a straight line out of their "circle" for a few moments until they go away.


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#71

Posted 02 March 2014 - 01:31 AM Edited by theNGclan, 02 March 2014 - 01:37 AM.

Hype is a terrible thing to go along with. Blame yourself, not the company that is trying to market their product. Quit complaining about the the game and enjoy it for what it's worth. If you honestly believe Rockstar will make a perfect game that fulfills your hype then you have to be on some serious drugs.

 

EDIT: Also, don't expect extremely randomized events. Ever. If you want a game that is constantly dynamic and hardly containing scripted scenarios, play The Sims 3.

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#72

Posted 02 March 2014 - 01:47 AM Edited by Officer Ronson, 02 March 2014 - 01:49 AM.

Gangs fighting eachother is part of the actual AI in the game, each gang is divided into a different number in the data. Meaning that this certain gang member will attack this other gang member if they're in a different group that is classified hostile to theirs.

 

Basically its something that will automaticly happen with no provocation if they seem to find each other. If you mess with the data you can put the balla member with the long shirt to fight the balla member with the purple sweater.

 

You remember in VC when cops would try to arrest security guards? That was because security guards werent really an autorithy figure within the game, the data classified them as a gang, in the GTA3.img file for VC there is SecguardB and A, they're basically the same model but it is like that so they can spawn as a gang. 

 

So gangs attacking eachother inst a dynamic thing, its pretty much something scripted.


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#73

Posted 02 March 2014 - 02:17 AM Edited by Vec, 02 March 2014 - 02:24 AM.

Not alive?

 

-I go either with M or F down the streets and try to talk to some people (Forget T, he just insults them :p) some say hi, some don't bother to talk to you and sometimes there's that ped that tells me what's been happening to him/her. I yet have to find a repeated story.

 

-Some talk to the phone and if I'm close they mention my character in a despective way during the conversation

 

-And don't get me started with random fights, I've seen some of these, I even accidentally started some in online somehow XD

 

EDIT: I also remember finding a construction worker angry complaining to his co-workers. I tried to talk to him and he got angry at me and pushed me. Of course we fought after that.


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#74

Posted 02 March 2014 - 03:52 AM Edited by Blood-Is-in-Diamond, 02 March 2014 - 03:55 AM.

I read somewhere that GTA started becoming Lively with GTA2 (1999);
*Peds hailing for cabs
*running for their lifes
*Waiting for buses
*Gangs fighting with Cops
*Roadblocks and SWATS
etc,and that was 15 years ago,so GTA 5 took all these to the next level,i would love to mention most but i would only mention 2 that no other "GTA Clone" has;
*Peds taking a bus ride (not just train ride like in IV and was also in V)
*Police Patrolling Gang areas at night with a Police Helicopter.Damn i could have added these two to the "Cool things you dont know"thread.

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#75

Posted 02 March 2014 - 04:32 AM Edited by Zodape, 02 March 2014 - 04:33 AM.

Even if I love GTA V, I agree. I still get that feeling of being lonely in the whole single player mode.

 

Then again, I get that with 99.9% of the videogames I play. Probably the only one that actually make the world kind of alive is... the Sims, lol.

 

V is way more alive than San Andreas, though. No doubt. Actually, the 3D era GTAs kind of give me chills. Every ped is quite dead down there. It's f*cking creepy if you think about it too much. The only way to make it feel alive is: everyone has guns cheat + everyone hates each other cheat. You can't get more alive than that.

 

Let's just wait for VI, where they will sacrifice the variety of V's along with the big map and try to make a really living breathing world (ooh, I can feel the whining).

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cholesterol
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#76

Posted 02 March 2014 - 04:34 AM Edited by Loxley, 02 March 2014 - 04:36 AM.

 

Actually Sleeping Dogs ripped the shock paddle from Saints Row, I am also wondering how it would actually be to have coroners in a GTA game.

 

Police block off the scene of the crime/accident be it with fence, tape or their cars. Ambulance rolls in and paramedics try to revive the vic, 50/50% chance of success. If the the vic dies, the paramedics call for coroner, coroner/crime scene investigators arrive, photograph the scene and put vic in body bag, on the stretcher, stretcher goes in coroner's van and they drive off. 

 

All could be scripted quite easily.

 

Have you taken into consideration the massive amount of variables that would have to be met to make said scripted scene function properly?

 

A good amount of resources would have to be allocated to make said scene possible and even more would have to be allocated to fix bugs which said scene would trigger.

 

tl;dr: It's not worth it.

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#77

Posted 02 March 2014 - 05:01 AM Edited by Blood-Is-in-Diamond, 02 March 2014 - 05:08 AM.

What other OW game have Smart Cops like V?

What other OW Game can you see people take pics of celebs or interesting things like V?

What Other OW Game make you watch up to 5 movies in the Cinema (with the exception of the GTA series)?

What other OW Game have you seen NPCs take a shower in the beach side?

What other OW Game goes to the extent of naming every Strippers (oh yeah i remember "GTA Clones" dont have stripper/Clubs i.e.Saints Row and Sleeping Dogs)

or makes you flirt with them?

What other OW game makes a Protag own a dog (Franklin) and train it?

What other OW makes Firemen responds to fire (with the exception of the GTA series?

What OW game had 3D GPS,something introduced by V?

What Other OW Game makes you take pics with NPCs (yeah IV had camera but wasnt like Snapmatic)?

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#78

Posted 02 March 2014 - 05:07 AM Edited by Loxley, 02 March 2014 - 05:08 AM.

What other OW game makes a Protag own a dog (Franklin) and train it?

Fable II


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#79

Posted 02 March 2014 - 05:10 AM Edited by Blood-Is-in-Diamond, 02 March 2014 - 05:23 AM.


What other OW game makes a Protag own a dog (Franklin) and train it?

Fable II

That an RPG Fantasy just like TES yeah it a bit similar to the OW Genre but it like saying a Cat is a Lion :)

Edit:That what i try to tell @Dope,TES isnt OWG it an RPG just like Fable.

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#80

Posted 02 March 2014 - 08:50 AM

I was up near the Land Act Dam. I was Michael, on a date with Amanda (not that it's important). I was staring at the city from the hill overlooking the dam. I hear a cougar roar behind me. Sure enough I turn the camera around and there's a cougar running down the hill away from my car. So I go back to staring at the city. Just about 2 or 3 minutes later I hear a cougar roar behind me. I turn the camera around and there is a cougar, once again running down the hill away from my car. So I pull out the cell phone to check, right? Sure enough, every hour on the hour the cougars respawn in the exact same location every single time. And then I started to notice it's the same with all the animals. They don't randomly appear in the wilderness, they have a set spot. I can always mob along a specific path and expect to see/hit a deer there. 

 

I don't know, that experience really took alot of the shine off of the diamond for me. It's like seeing the guy with his hand up the puppet's ass, it spoiled the illusion in a bad way.            

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#81

Posted 02 March 2014 - 12:41 PM

 

Why do we get these pointless hate threads, about negative stuff about GTA V all the time...? Isnt this forum suppose to exist for FANS and people who love the franchise, and not negative threads pointing out things that suck about GTA V 24/7...?

But haven't you been making these types of threads as well? ;)

 

@Raavi That would be nice in a future GTA game, but won't they be busy? Considering that a lot of people die every day in the GTA world.

 

No, I havent made any threads about hate on GTA V SP. I did some few shooting on GTA Online, but I did not do hate threads on GTA V. And btw, who the f*ck are you even to reply to all of my posts with a stupid blinking smile face all the time..? Its creepy.


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#82

Posted 02 March 2014 - 12:43 PM

Gangs fighting eachother is part of the actual AI in the game, each gang is divided into a different number in the data. Meaning that this certain gang member will attack this other gang member if they're in a different group that is classified hostile to theirs.

 

Basically its something that will automaticly happen with no provocation if they seem to find each other. If you mess with the data you can put the balla member with the long shirt to fight the balla member with the purple sweater.

 

You remember in VC when cops would try to arrest security guards? That was because security guards werent really an autorithy figure within the game, the data classified them as a gang, in the GTA3.img file for VC there is SecguardB and A, they're basically the same model but it is like that so they can spawn as a gang. 

 

So gangs attacking eachother inst a dynamic thing, its pretty much something scripted.

Yes I know they're scripted.. like I said, everything in the game is scripted to some extent. These are behaviors defined in the main.scm, but they weren't linear predetermined scripted events. They were only scripted to approach and antagonize then attack or kill on sight (depending on the gang), but the way these events were carried out were natural, highly variable and weren't coached by a predetermined script. Hell, in GTA V the gangs aren't even set to attack each other! You can watch a rival CGF gang member tap dance in the center of Grove Street surrounded by Ballas and they'll just pretend he doesn't even exist.

For example.. an "unscripted" event would be a couple of GSF members are hanging around near the tracks entering Idlewood. A Balla car happens to drive by, the Families yank him out of his car and shoot him. Nearby Ballas get out of their cars and get into a gunfight with the Families and they get overpowered by the Ballas and die. This is unscripted because nowhere is there a script that forced that outcome. The game happened to spawn some Families and the game happened to spawn some Ballas driving by and they reacted based on their behavioral settings and created this event themselves, not a script. The only thing predetermined is that they would attack each other.

A scripted event would be something like the mission Drive-Thru. A group of Ballas spot CJ & Co., spin around and do a drive by and then go driving down to Grove Street to do another drive-by. This is a linear predetermined script that is guaranteed to happen every single time and that's basically what most events in GTA V are and that sh*t gets tired and predictable after so many times. I can't count how many times I've seen that f*cking Lost van squeal off outside of that same Sub-Urban in that exact same spot going in the exact same direction when I enter that zone and that just feels so artificial after so many times. If they'd just mix it up by adding some behaviors to the peds where they'd cause their own sh*t rather than have them repeating the same animation over and over it might actually flow a lot better with the scripted events.

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#83

Posted 02 March 2014 - 12:45 PM

 

Why do we get these pointless hate threads, about negative stuff about GTA V all the time...? Isnt this forum suppose to exist for FANS and people who love the franchise, and not negative threads pointing out things that suck about GTA V 24/7...?

These aren't pointless hate threads, and we're discussing things that could potentially improve the game for us. We bring up these threads because we are fans that are passionate about the game and the series and are trying to find ways it can improve. I don't think anyone in this thread said they hated V so there is no need for a tampon at this moment :p

This is a GTA discussion forum, not a mentally-masturbate-over-everything-about-GTA V forum. If you even admit there is things that suck about GTA V, enough things to have a constant "24/7" stream of negative things regarding it why are you so upset when people discuss ways to make it better? The game is good but would it not be better without all of the things that suck

I can say you are right about that. But it to me seems that people just cant get enough... Seriously, look at all does pointless DLC threads about people crying why there is no flamethrower and sh*t. And people being nitpickers and pointing out stuff, stuff like this thread ''Living breathing world... Not really''. Seriously, that sounds so stupid!


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#84

Posted 02 March 2014 - 12:57 PM

There's definitely something missing from this game. I'm not getting the kind of feeling, an instant "attachment" as a fan and long time player of the series.
It could be what OP said, or just something else.
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#85

Posted 02 March 2014 - 01:17 PM Edited by The Lonesome Drifter, 02 March 2014 - 01:17 PM.

Edit: wrong thread

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#86

Posted 02 March 2014 - 01:19 PM

I find the V world more alive on my 3rd playthrough. This time im trying to keep the killing and general maniac stuff to a minimum, i havent stolen a single car, shot an innocent or robbed a store. I find as I drive casually around the city that traffic spawns more varied mostly and 'fuller'. The freeway is choked a lot of the time. If I drive like i normally would in a game, the road is emptier as the traffic doesnt spawn so much (or so well). I save in home and usually change my clothes at least once a day to a clean set. I talk to a lot of peds as I walk the streets after missions that leave me without wheels and i get mostly good responses. I dont rob gruppe6 vans and get all my money from the stock market, street racing etc.

At least from what i can tell, this realistic way of playing gives a more realistic, if not immersive feel to the game and a lot of peoples issues with ped aggresiveness and so on seem unfounded from this angle. Sure, there is a limit to the things they do around the city but in general, thats how life is. People are very robotic irl, they may say hi if prompted but they have jobs to do, families to think about and a general sense of self above all else. I think LS is no different.

More open restaurants and businesses would be nice though and of course, additions to your business empire such as interiors, staff and realistic jobs. Im the owner, i dont mind picking up the odd delivery or defending the premesis but theres got to be more to it than that!?

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#87

Posted 02 March 2014 - 03:06 PM

What other OW game have Smart Cops like V?

What other OW Game can you see people take pics of celebs or interesting things like V?

What Other OW Game make you watch up to 5 movies in the Cinema (with the exception of the GTA series)?

What other OW Game have you seen NPCs take a shower in the beach side?

What other OW Game goes to the extent of naming every Strippers (oh yeah i remember "GTA Clones" dont have stripper/Clubs i.e.Saints Row and Sleeping Dogs)

or makes you flirt with them?

What other OW game makes a Protag own a dog (Franklin) and train it?

What other OW makes Firemen responds to fire (with the exception of the GTA series?

What OW game had 3D GPS,something introduced by V?

What Other OW Game makes you take pics with NPCs (yeah IV had camera but wasnt like Snapmatic)?

 

1 Mafia 1 & 2. Oh look ANOTHER 2K develoed game with a shuttered studio. They actually look for your appearence and car seperately, something I want in GTA. Related fact: Fines were considered as far back as GTA2 and scrapped. Do I need to dig out my old PC Gamer mags and scan that image from the late 1990s?

 

2. GTA IV

 

3. The Darkness 1 let you watch a FULL length movie, To Kill A Mockingird, an actual, genuine movie and not just a few minutes of a short.

 

4. The Sims 3 (Open world really once it's loaded in)

 

5. The Saboteur. Home baase in that game in 1940s Paris? A typically French strip club. Oh yeah the strippers are actually topless in that game as well as in the Godfather II game. The more you know.. IIRC they are not topless in GTA V.

 

6. Fable series. Fable 2-3 in particular

 

7. Quite a lot actually

 

8. None becase it's a feature that doesn't add much. Even real world GPS is still mostly 2D

 

9. Not that many but hey look, clutchig at straws to suport a weak fanboy argument..

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PkUnzipper
  • PkUnzipper

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#88

Posted 02 March 2014 - 03:27 PM Edited by PkUnzipper, 02 March 2014 - 03:37 PM.

Remember that line from the trailer? I certainly do. After spending countless hours in every GTA since 3, I was expecting a truly remarkable "living breathing world." But was that really what we got? I'm not so certain.....

 

I most definitely do. And unfortunately, if the upcoming DLC is any indicator for R*s vision of what we should expect about this "living breathing world", then this claim--just like the future of GTAO ---will be FUBAR....

 

To say that SP was a completely anticlimactic experience would be an understatement.  And GTAO has been still swan diving into oblivion for me ever since....

 

From those promotional trailers, I had expected an incredibly realistic, highly interactive and immersive 3D version of SA on steroids.  But with SP in GTA V,  I got a big beautiful gift box in some incredibly beautiful wrapping.  And when I finally removed all that pretty  wrapping and opened the box,  I was crushed to discover absolutely nothing but air existed there....

 

I find it even more unfortunate that R* would ignore your suggestion OP.  Even if you were to directly sent this to them in support over at RGSC.  :/  Their ongoing indifference to the increasing fan base concerns about GTAO is bad for business IMO.  If R* keeps up this nonchalant attitude toward the fan base, it's likely to come back and bite them in the rear.

 

Excellent post btw. :^:

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Celticfang
  • Celticfang

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#89

Posted 02 March 2014 - 03:43 PM

PkUnzipper I think the problem is (and I've said it before) that big companies are too fixated on games = Hollywood. That they want their games to be like movies, they are getting more and more linear. Comare the freedom in games 5 years ago with now, there's definitely less depeding on where you look.

You could for instance completely take out the free roaming from GTA and it'd look and sound like a bad movie. I don't understand the obsession that some game devs and publishers of trying to emulate Hollywood where it's sequels ad rehashed films every few years

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carl turtle
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#90

Posted 02 March 2014 - 03:57 PM

even GTA 1 is more alive than this sh*t, dont know about you guys but i burned my clay theft auto v copy, LiarStar is the worst company in the world

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