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"Living, breathing world" Not exactly

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DaRkL3AD3R
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#1

Posted 01 March 2014 - 05:02 PM

Remember that line from the trailer? I certainly do. After spending countless hours in every GTA since 3, I was expecting a truly remarkable "living breathing world." But was that really what we got? I'm not so certain.

 

For starters what makes a living breathing world? I would say "life" does. And that life to me, comes from all the different people walking around in the game world. This means drivers and pedestrians. I've invested probably close to 200 hours in GTA V just wandering around in free roam checking out various locations and just observing the game world, and while it is beautiful, it's far from "alive" as the trailers liked to describe it. Everything feels very scripted, and even then there is not much going on at any given time. The most life you can hope for is a cop car speeding by chasing a random civilian and maybe if you're lucky, they get into a gun fight.

 

 

Now let me contrast this to a scenario I experienced last night in San Andreas:

 

- Walking down the street and bump into a drug dealer

- He asks me if I would like to buy any, I say naw man.

- Decide I might want to kill him and take his money so I start setting up in stealth for a knife kill

- Another pedestrian approaches him and does a deal, holy sh*t

- As soon as the dealer hands the product to the random pedestrians a cop car pulls up with lights flashing

- The officer gets out and draws his weapon on the dealer, intent on arresting him

- A small gun fight ensues, and the dealer flees on foot

- The cops chased him down and killed him

- Shortly afterwards an ambulance came and revived the drug dealer

 

 

This whole scene that played out totally at random, in a game almost a decade old, felt more alive than any other moment I've had in GTA V. It was executed so perfectly you would think the cops were running a sting operation on the dealer, it was that good. And yet it wasn't, it was just by chance that a cop happened to be patrolling the area and witnessed a drug deal going on between two random pedestrians, and jumped into action. It was incredible to witness and really made me that much more aware of why San Andreas was titled the best game of the PS2 generation by IGN. It truly was a marvel for it's time, and still is giving me quality experiences to this day.

 

And this reminded me, where are the patrolling cops in V? What happened to making arrests? Why are there no drug dealers approaching Franklin asking him if he wants any?

 

Where is this living breathing world you advertised to me Rockstar?

 

 

Sure the graphics are pretty, but this game is about as dead as a free roam game can get. And that hurts to say, because what GTA V does right, it does amazing. The gunplay, the graphics, the missions all are fun and incredibly detailed. But man, that free roam is really truly dead.

 

Thoughts?

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Officer Ronson
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#2

Posted 01 March 2014 - 05:13 PM

Wait wait wait, the part where cops come is the most bullsh*t thing i've seen in years. After all my hours put in San Andreas a cop car pulling out of nowhere to arrest a drug dealer has never happened, you're making that part up.

 

A normal beat cop will chase the drug dealer, but that is that, the AI will not make an attempt to even beat him when he gets close.

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killahmatic
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#3

Posted 01 March 2014 - 05:14 PM Edited by killahmatic, 01 March 2014 - 05:16 PM.

Thoughts?

 

Liar. cops have never pulled up to arrest drug dealers in San Andreas.

 

For me, V feels more alive than any previous GTA. They did a great job. While they don't have an exact drug dealer scenario, there are other things just as good. 

 

Here's a scenario I experienced last night in V:

- I decided to head over to Ballas territory

- As I walked down their street, I kept hearing them tell me to get out of their area

- At one point I stopped and turned around. They didn't like that I stopped so they started walking up to me.

- At that exact moment, a police chase went storming past. 

- The escaping car crashed

- All the Ballas in the area began shooting at the police and killing them

- They successfully helped the pair in the car escape the law

- I then decided to take out the Ballas, which started a nice gunfight. 

- They were all finding the best positions to shoot me and take cover

- Some of them climbed on buildings that had a good vantage point of my location while others stayed low

- As I was about to kill the last few Ballas, a dog ran up to me and killed me

 

It felt more alive than any other moment I've had in San Andreas, Vice City, III, and IV. Even better is that there is no bullsh*t to my story.

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#4

Posted 01 March 2014 - 05:16 PM

My thoughts?

 

Well, I'll tell you what my thoughts are.

 

Too many of these types of threads exist, that's what my thoughts are. 

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DaRkL3AD3R
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#5

Posted 01 March 2014 - 05:20 PM

Wait wait wait, the part where cops come is the most bullsh*t thing i've seen in years. After all my hours put in San Andreas a cop car pulling out of nowhere to arrest a drug dealer has never happened, you're making that part up.

 

Liar. cops have never pulled up to arrest drug dealers in San Andreas.

 

I wish I recorded it, but I was just playing the game to mess around and appreciate the older days of GTA. When it happened, I was blown away and didn't even think to load up FRAPS and hit the F1 key. But I swear, it happened and it was amazing. It was just by coincidence that the cop was patrolling by them at night right as that random pedestrian was being handed drugs, and if I could get it to happen again on camera, I would in a heartbeat.

 

While that scenario you mentioned sounds complex, killahmatic, it really isn't. Really all that's happening is you just so happened to be in aggressive gang territory when oh my the police chasing the pedestrian script ran, and the gang entered combat mode and just started shooting.

 

I just feel for a game that came out nearly 10 years after SA and promised to give us a truly dynamic world, that Rockstar failed to deliver in this one regard.

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lol232
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#6

Posted 01 March 2014 - 05:20 PM

The first trailer was basically a cutscene, anyway.
"Reviving" people in SA was pretty cheesy, I remember I shot out someones head and the paramedics revived him. He was headless. At least in GTA V such a thing is rather rare.
IMO free play is actually pretty, especially because you can have conversations that make sense in V, I remember when I loaded the game as Franklin and I sow the Families having a HEAVY shootout with the cops, I remember when I sow two guys randomly fighting eachother in a gym, and many other interesting things, I gotta say that free-roam is pretty alive.
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Officer Ronson
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#7

Posted 01 March 2014 - 05:25 PM

- Walking down the Del Perro Pier I notice all this people sitting outside restaurants drinking coffe or eating a donut, I go down under the pier only to find a busker playing the guitar and some people taking pictures of the beach and other areas while there are joggers joggin' and some on bikes on the bike lane.

 

- I saw this cop car speeding out of a police station with lights and sirens only to start a pursuit on a random car when arriving to Murrieta Heights, they killed the guy then the driver got out and started to inspection the body, a paramedic crew arrived but they weren't able to do anything so they all went back to their thing.

 

- Exploring the forests and some mountains I notice that people are racing in bikes and are being waited at the end, the people at the end seem to be cheering them.

 

- Inside of the Studios the staff fix most of the stuff and check the equipment.

 

- Around the sewers you can see construction workers hammering nails in wooden parts and others in wielder masks wielding some metal.

 

And so I can go on...

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#8

Posted 01 March 2014 - 05:31 PM

Hey it has it`s problems but show me a game that does it better than GTA V and I will show you where to find the jetpack.

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#9

Posted 01 March 2014 - 05:35 PM Edited by mariana_dm1989, 01 March 2014 - 05:36 PM.

Even IV felt more alive that V.

 

V has a kind of saints row artificial atmosphere.

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#10

Posted 01 March 2014 - 05:40 PM

I would've liked to see things like this.

 

 

And considering we have an ME Office where is the Coroner's Van?

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#11

Posted 01 March 2014 - 06:00 PM

Do you people not get sick of this tiring ancient debate? Jesus Christ.

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#12

Posted 01 March 2014 - 06:00 PM

Wow yeah, Sleeping Dogs did a lot of things right.

 

But if there's one thing I can't explain them missing in this dynamic world, it's this:

 

 

The dynamics of how he came back to the store and police were there, and the lady recognized him despite him changing his clothes, it's just amazing. Supposedly also if you shoot the shop worker and come back, there's police tape all around the crime scene and witnesses can ID you as well.

 

 

Contrast this to GTA V, a game BUILT to rob stores, and I can execute a store employee, circle around the block in my car and come back to the same person I just executed, alive behind the counter, and the store running just fine and dandy. Really missed opportunities in this game that for something as new as it is, it really doesn't live up to the standards it should have imposed on it.

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[ÁT]
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#13

Posted 01 March 2014 - 06:02 PM Edited by [ÁT], 01 March 2014 - 06:05 PM.

Wait wait wait, the part where cops come is the most bullsh*t thing i've seen in years. After all my hours put in San Andreas a cop car pulling out of nowhere to arrest a drug dealer has never happened, you're making that part up.

 

A normal beat cop will chase the drug dealer, but that is that, the AI will not make an attempt to even beat him when he gets close.

I've been playing and modding SA for years and I can attest to this happening. If a drug dealer makes a deal in visual radius of a patrolling cop car or a cop on foot, they will turn the sirens on and chase him down.

Someone in this thread did make some good points. In rare occasions in the countryside I'll be driving down and I'll see a group of joggers or people hiking down a trail. A group of bikers riding along in a pack (though they split up shortly after lmfao). A store robbery in progress, etc. GTA V definitely has some scripted liveliness for sure with little things like that in addition to random events, but a huge majority of the time it feels dead because these things only happen if you're mobile and switching zones to activate them. You'll never see a cop car driving down a gritty alley way patrolling a gang neighborhood if you're standing there and it makes it feel very scripted.

Go to Vagos projects in Jamestown a few times, while there is variation, you'll start noticing a pattern of static spawn points and scripted behaviors linked to them. Do it right now, I bet you there will be a group standing on the corner of the parking lot near the highway, a group talking near them closer to the projects, some hanging around outside their buildings and a group in the middle lot near the garbage can. They'll just stand still and never move unless you provoke them. They'll do the same smoking/drinking animation over and over. There may be one or two roamers but that'll be it. This is what is done everywhere on the map and it's so predictable. I drive down a street and I'll immediately know where the peds will spawn and what they'll be doing :lol: Just makes it feel so lifeless.

SA was far from perfect for sure, but at least the peds got into sh*t and wouldn't just stand still repeating the same f*cking animations in the same spot over and over and over. The gangs wouldn't just be static and stand still, they'd roll together in a big group and sometimes get into gunfights or brawls with other gangs. Peds were a lot more simple but at least they weren't so predictable. If they'd just mix the scripted events and peds together with the unscripted ones the world might actually feel like it has some life and variety.
 

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DaRkL3AD3R
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#14

Posted 01 March 2014 - 06:10 PM

Exactly [µT] couldn't have said it better.

GTA V has some exciting stuff going on but in the big picture none of it is new and all the things that try to make the world feel alive really only do so once. After that first time you see the scripted nature of the game and feel how artificial it really is.
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#15

Posted 01 March 2014 - 06:13 PM

Exactly [µT] couldn't have said it better.

GTA V has some exciting stuff going on but in the big picture none of it is new and all the things that try to make the world feel alive really only do so once. After that first time you see the scripted nature of the game and feel how artificial it really is.

It's almost like going out into the real world and finding out how sh*tty it is. It's a game, relax. 


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#16

Posted 01 March 2014 - 06:26 PM Edited by TheMasterfocker, 01 March 2014 - 06:36 PM.

I've never had anything exciting happen to me randomly in SA. Guess I'm just unlucky lol.

 

However, V is a different story.

 

- Hit a guy's car with my car

 

- Guy gets angry, starts chasing me

 

- I drive into the ghetto, seeing if I can get him to hit someone and have people come after him

 

- He hits a gang member and kills him

 

- All other gang members in the area started shooting him.

 

- He died, but some cops that were nearby came

 

- Cops start shootout with gang members

 

- Cops get obliterated, because there's only 2 of them.

 

GTA 4 was also like this; where you had to make your own trouble. The only random thing that I remember happening with 4 was the guy getting chased by cops on foot, and that was rare.

 

There's definitely a lot more to do in V than in IV


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#17

Posted 01 March 2014 - 06:30 PM

You guys will get dissapointed expecting things from other games because R* is so stubborn to atleast copy this little thing this other game had. Plus Darkleader Mafia II was ment to be realistic, that video you displayed wouldn't work in this game because police doesnt search us based on you look.

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#18

Posted 01 March 2014 - 06:31 PM

In response to Raavi:

 

Sleeping Dogs is such an underrated game. It incorporates these small details that everybody wants yet people over look it because it doesn't have the 'GTA' brand. Liberty City felt more alive than San Andreas (V); R* could have done a better job (seems to be the motto around these forums  :whuh: )


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#19

Posted 01 March 2014 - 07:01 PM Edited by TheTechPoTaToCHIP, 01 March 2014 - 07:04 PM.

 

Wait wait wait, the part where cops come is the most bullsh*t thing i've seen in years. After all my hours put in San Andreas a cop car pulling out of nowhere to arrest a drug dealer has never happened, you're making that part up.

 

Liar. cops have never pulled up to arrest drug dealers in San Andreas.

 

I wish I recorded it, but I was just playing the game to mess around and appreciate the older days of GTA. When it happened, I was blown away and didn't even think to load up FRAPS and hit the F1 key. But I swear, it happened and it was amazing. It was just by coincidence that the cop was patrolling by them at night right as that random pedestrian was being handed drugs, and if I could get it to happen again on camera, I would in a heartbeat.

 

While that scenario you mentioned sounds complex, killahmatic, it really isn't. Really all that's happening is you just so happened to be in aggressive gang territory when oh my the police chasing the pedestrian script ran, and the gang entered combat mode and just started shooting.

 

I just feel for a game that came out nearly 10 years after SA and promised to give us a truly dynamic world, that Rockstar failed to deliver in this one regard.

 

You are lying because cops arent even scripted to arrest peds in GTA SA, peds cant even get wanted in SA! The only time peds get chased by cops in the 3D era is the random scripted events in VC and LCS where if you punch a ped you get a good Samaritan bonus.

-There is no arrest animation

-There is no script for arrested peds to enter the back of a cop car

-There is neither a script for peds to actually buy drugs from dealers nor an animation to do so

 

I am calling this BS -_-

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oul1909
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#20

Posted 01 March 2014 - 07:26 PM

Wow yeah, Sleeping Dogs did a lot of things right.

 

But if there's one thing I can't explain them missing in this dynamic world, it's this:

 

 

The dynamics of how he came back to the store and police were there, and the lady recognized him despite him changing his clothes, it's just amazing. Supposedly also if you shoot the shop worker and come back, there's police tape all around the crime scene and witnesses can ID you as well.

 

 

Contrast this to GTA V, a game BUILT to rob stores, and I can execute a store employee, circle around the block in my car and come back to the same person I just executed, alive behind the counter, and the store running just fine and dandy. Really missed opportunities in this game that for something as new as it is, it really doesn't live up to the standards it should have imposed on it.

Wow, Mafia 2... so much memories from that game

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#21

Posted 01 March 2014 - 07:33 PM

@OP

 

The shops are closed for around 5 or 10 minutes after a robbery. 

 

@Raavi Unfortunately, the coroner's van is stuck in the world of L.A. Noire. :/


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#22

Posted 01 March 2014 - 07:38 PM

In V, you get a sense of lives going on around you, whether it's the cooks taking a smoke break round the back of a hotel, or the paparatzi waiting outside the golf course, or the gardeners using the leaf blower, or the security guard patrolling buildings sites with his guard dog at night, or the security car taking it's nighttime route around Rockford Hills and the Industrial Zone, or the way the promenade gets empty early in the mornings, and the tractors are raking the sand or the games of tennis going on between NPCs or the cops chasing NPC criminals or whatever.

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#23

Posted 01 March 2014 - 07:41 PM

To be honest the whole GTA5 is a bit boring for me. I don`t know why, maybe it`s because I`ve grown up since my last GTA and I just can`t seem to come up with things to do. Out of missions, I am completely bored.

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#24

Posted 01 March 2014 - 07:47 PM

Actually Sleeping Dogs ripped the shock paddle from Saints Row, I am also wondering how it would actually be to have coroners in a GTA game.


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#25

Posted 01 March 2014 - 07:57 PM

Actually Sleeping Dogs ripped the shock paddle from Saints Row, I am also wondering how it would actually be to have coroners in a GTA game.

Poor coroner would be busy all day, driving from one place, to another, all because of Trevor. :lol:

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#26

Posted 01 March 2014 - 08:00 PM Edited by Raavi, 01 March 2014 - 08:01 PM.

Actually Sleeping Dogs ripped the shock paddle from Saints Row, I am also wondering how it would actually be to have coroners in a GTA game.

 

Police block off the scene of the crime/accident be it with fence, tape or their cars. Ambulance rolls in and paramedics try to revive the vic, 50/50% chance of success. If the the vic dies, the paramedics call for coroner, coroner/crime scene investigators arrive, photograph the scene and put vic in body bag, on the stretcher, stretcher goes in coroner's van and they drive off. 

 

All could be scripted quite easily.


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#27

Posted 01 March 2014 - 08:04 PM Edited by SingularSoul, 01 March 2014 - 08:08 PM.

After playing GTA IV again... I've got to conclude that, whilst the WORLD of V seems to be a little more detailed, the peds felt more natural and unscripted in IV....

I guess I've fallen out of love with V a little in recent times, mostly down to the humour, peds and map design, so my viewpoint may be swayed slightly, but I do genuinely feel less immersed in V.

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#28

Posted 01 March 2014 - 08:05 PM

 

Actually Sleeping Dogs ripped the shock paddle from Saints Row, I am also wondering how it would actually be to have coroners in a GTA game.

 

Police block off the scene of the crime/accident be it with fence, tape or their cars. Ambulance rolls in and paramedics try to revive the vic, 50/50% chance of success. If the the vic dies, the paramedics call for coroner, coroner/crime scene investigators arrive, photograph the scene and put vic in body bag, on the stretcher, stretcher goes in coroner's van and they drive off. 

 

All could be scripted quite easily.

 

I hope they put that in the next GTA. :^:

 

Or they could give us a "free DLC" with it. ;)


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#29

Posted 01 March 2014 - 08:08 PM

Sorry but I have to disagree, the peds in IV felt the more scripted out of the whole saga. I remember crashing another car at a very slow speed in one of the taillights and all of the sudden all of them dropped their objects and looked at me with that souless stare.


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#30

Posted 01 March 2014 - 08:08 PM

I hope they put that in the next GTA. :^:

 

 

Or they could give us a "free DLC" with it. ;)

 

I'd pay for a DLC that included that, improved emergency response and a dumbed down version of LCPDFR. 





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