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Was Franklin necessary at all?

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Official General
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#31

Posted 26 February 2014 - 12:17 PM Edited by Official General, 26 February 2014 - 07:41 PM.

Of course Franklin was necessary, he was one of the protagonists and played a part in the story, regardless of his very underwhelming role in the game.

However, personally I think if Rockstar were gonna give Franklin such a weak script and a character with little depth like he is in the game as it stands now, then they should not have bothered making him a protagonist in the first place.

Rockstar really messed up his involvement of the game. Looking at his trailer, it could have turned out to be something very exciting and explosive, but all that happened was that Franklin started off as something very promising, then halfway through the game it quickly descended into something mediocre and lacklustre.

The only thing that would have a given Franklin's story and character some much needed substance and depth would have been much more involvement of gangs and the hood in his story or in some other form in the gameplay, as a set of side missions at least. Gangs and the hood is his identity and background, so therefore it's what he relates to most. I've said this many times, that's the only way. But certain people on here just don't understand and they fail to see the perfect logic in this. All they keep saying is bullsh*t like "this is not SA.20", "Oh Franklin wants to leave the gang life", or "the game is not about gangs", DESPITE the fact that Franklin still has a strong connection to gangs via Lamar and is still a gang member or affiliate. I bet some of the same people saying no to more gang/hood stuff are the same people that will complain and criticize Franklin as a protagonist how boring and bland he is, and that he's just in the background and don't do much - well, without a good amount of that gang and hood stuff for his story and his gameplay what the f*ck else do they expect ? You cannot win with these guys, or even at least reach middle ground with them on this.

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#32

Posted 26 February 2014 - 11:45 PM

I personally think Franklin was added there for marketing reasons.

 

I think Gamers want young, virile and strong heroes (most big-budget titles have them).  I think Rockstar was afraid if they sold a game of balding or overweight middle-aged men, it wouldn't be appealing.  So, Franklin was added.

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#33

Posted 27 February 2014 - 12:55 PM

Franklin needed more personal missions, but I think he was needed because the Trevor and Michael relationship at times started getting old (literally) and Franklin was the perfect character to balance this out. The only issue with Franklin is that he got his objective pretty early on in the game which was a storyline flaw.

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#34

Posted 27 February 2014 - 01:04 PM

It was necessary to have him, otherwise SA "cry babies" would probably full out attack Rockstar by keep comparing with the GTA San Andreas, and how much they meeeeessh "CJ-hood-gang-stuff". Personally, I don't give two craps of any of the trio.

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#35

Posted 27 February 2014 - 01:21 PM Edited by Official General, 27 February 2014 - 01:25 PM.

It was necessary to have him, otherwise SA "cry babies" would probably full out attack Rockstar by keep comparing with the GTA San Andreas, and how much they meeeeessh "CJ-hood-gang-stuff". Personally, I don't give two craps of any of the trio.

 

I don't see how this talk about satisfying "SA cry babies" makes any sense at all. You and others have said this, and it's complete bullsh*t. At the end of the day, Rockstar will make the game in whatever way they please, I cannot see them tailor-making the game purely based on the desires of certain groups fans just simply because they demanded it. At the end of the day, Rockstar were the ones who chose put a black gangbanger from the hood in GTA V as a protagonist, and they were the ones who strongly implied in their advertisements and trailers that there was gonna be a significant amount of gang and hood action in the game on Franklin's part. That obviously turned out to be false, and thus understandably and reasonably angered or disappointed many fans of gang/hood theme in GTA, who more than likely were big SA fans. 

 

I can't see why people like you are blaming SA fans being "cry babies" for this. It's Rockstar's call, not the fans, we just buy the games, we don't threaten Rockstar staff or hold them to ransom unless they make the game in the way we want. 


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#36

Posted 27 February 2014 - 01:37 PM

 

It was necessary to have him, otherwise SA "cry babies" would probably full out attack Rockstar by keep comparing with the GTA San Andreas, and how much they meeeeessh "CJ-hood-gang-stuff". Personally, I don't give two craps of any of the trio.

 

I can't see why people like you are blaming SA fans being "cry babies" for this. It's Rockstar's call, not the fans, we just buy the games, we don't threaten Rockstar staff or hold them to ransom unless they make the game in the way we want. 

 

I was merely drawing out the picture of September 17, When the game arrives and you suddenly see no hood presence (not counting other gangs), and of course no protagonist to talk (Franklin or CJ or whoever). 

How will the GTA San Andreas fans react? 

Rockstar most probably used Franklin to avoid the onslaught of fan attacks, and they never fleshed out Franklin nearly enough, Just focused on Michael and Trevor significantly that we don't find any of those "Old SA" feel.

Of course,  it's as well early to conclude without having the story updates, but as of now, I agree with the OP

 

Also, I was talking in a lighthearted manner, forgive me if it felt like that.


Official General
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#37

Posted 27 February 2014 - 02:14 PM Edited by Official General, 27 February 2014 - 04:54 PM.

 


 


It was necessary to have him, otherwise SA "cry babies" would probably full out attack Rockstar by keep comparing with the GTA San Andreas, and how much they meeeeessh "CJ-hood-gang-stuff". Personally, I don't give two craps of any of the trio.

 
I can't see why people like you are blaming SA fans being "cry babies" for this. It's Rockstar's call, not the fans, we just buy the games, we don't threaten Rockstar staff or hold them to ransom unless they make the game in the way we want. 
 
I was merely drawing out the picture of September 17, When the game arrives and you suddenly see no hood presence (not counting other gangs), and of course no protagonist to talk (Franklin or CJ or whoever). 
How will the GTA San Andreas fans react? 
Rockstar most probably used Franklin to avoid the onslaught of fan attacks, and they never fleshed out Franklin nearly enough, Just focused on Michael and Trevor significantly that we don't find any of those "Old SA" feel.
Of course,  it's as well early to conclude without having the story updates, but as of now, I agree with the OP
 
Also, I was talking in a lighthearted manner, forgive me if it felt like that.
 
 
Yeah the SA fans would react in a way in which they would be very vocal about their discontent and displeasure with the very little gang/hood action in the game, and Franklin's lack of depth in character and story. However that don't make them "cry babies". They were reasonable complaints. They expected to see what they wanted in the game based on Rockstar's pre-release depictions and descriptions of the game and they did not get it. So it understandable that they would be complaining in a major way about this issue. It's not just 'SA' fans too, it's GTA fans in general. I'm pretty sure many general GTA fans would have wanted more exciting and fun stuff do regarding Franklin, gangs, and the hood. It's not really to do with wanting another SA anyway, it's more to do with including the real good stuff and features that should have been in the game to complement it's themes. In this case, that did not happen with Franklin, and that's the problem. 
 
It's cool, no need to apologize, I was getting something off my chest.
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#38

Posted 27 February 2014 - 03:19 PM

i agree that the game would feel emptier without franklin and that franklin could have been given a good role.

 

but as it stands now, he was just a tagalong

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#39

Posted 27 February 2014 - 03:23 PM

He's necessary as we needed someone what wasn't involved with Michael's and Trevor's discussions and fights.


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#40

Posted 27 February 2014 - 03:40 PM

niko, luis and johnny made a better trio cause they hardly knew each other and each of them had their own set of activities and strand of missions while niko was the star of GTAIV; luis and johnny's roles were still just as important as luis put an end to niko's arch-nemesis and johnny ended the wretched reign of billy grey and forged an even stronger biker alliance with the lost and uptown riders in GTA V.
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#41

Posted 27 February 2014 - 05:07 PM

Hell yeah he was neccesary! If he wasnt in the game i dont think i would of even bought it. No offence white dudes but i wasnt ready for no white folks old people sh*t. I wanted some hood sh*t. I wanted a blacc dude, we aint had one since like San Andreas! 

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#42

Posted 27 February 2014 - 05:26 PM

Hell yeah he was neccesary! If he wasnt in the game i dont think i would of even bought it. No offence white dudes but i wasnt ready for no white folks old people sh*t. I wanted some hood sh*t. I wanted a blacc dude, we aint had one since like San Andreas! 

 

You got your black man the hood not included.

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#43

Posted 27 February 2014 - 06:26 PM

 

Hell yeah he was neccesary! If he wasnt in the game i dont think i would of even bought it. No offence white dudes but i wasnt ready for no white folks old people sh*t. I wanted some hood sh*t. I wanted a blacc dude, we aint had one since like San Andreas! 

 

You got your black man the hood not included.

 

Like what? 2/3 missions in SC..


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#44

Posted 27 February 2014 - 09:40 PM

Franklin should have had more gang involvement.  They turned a gang member into a boring and lonely guy living in a fancy house who irons his shirts a lot.

 

e4ktRyg.jpg

 

 

It's as though Rockstar forgot that games are supposed to be fun to play.  There are a few things Rockstar has done in this game to make it less enjoyable.  For instance, they turned Johnny into a pussy and make Trevor kill him.  Now, people who liked Johnny have to spend a significant amount of time playing as a character they don't like.  Then, they create a character in which yoga fits as his side activity.  Then they take a gang member and turn him into someone who sits around eating chips.

 

None of that was necessary.  It's supposed to be fun, not dull and depressing.

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#45

Posted 27 February 2014 - 09:44 PM

None of that was necessary.  It's supposed to be fun, not dull and depressing.

I bet you hated GTA 4.

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#46

Posted 27 February 2014 - 10:52 PM

As much as I eventually came round to liking Franklin, I have to agree that his inclusion as a protagonist was *unnecessary, and a complete waste of resources. He should've been an npc who played a very minor addition to the story as far as I'm concerned; that way the narrative between Michael & Trevor could've had more attention and been expanded upon.

 

*I say unnecessary, but it was necessary to appeal to the kids who find that gangbanging crap appealing

 

It was supposed to be fun, not dull and depressing.

Yeah, because Trevor was so dull and depressing....

 

Next you'll be telling me Luis Lopez had the entertainment value of a lion-tamer on prozac.


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#47

Posted 27 February 2014 - 11:23 PM

I think he would have been better as a Lamar side character/npc that showed up from time to time.

And I also have to agree that he was put in for the sake of the SA obsessed kids who just go on and on about CJ and gang life...

I mean honestly, his trailer was deceiving as hell, we only spent like 5 missions in the "hood" before he got a mansion and suddenly was an upstanding citizen.

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#48

Posted 27 February 2014 - 11:32 PM

Franklin was the best character in the game because all he was looking for was money. Michael sitting over here crying about missing his family and Trevor over here crying about missing " Brad ". Truthfully I would rather see Michael/Trevor kicked out of the game and let it be about Franklin, but we all can't have what we want. So yeah Franklin was necessary and Michael/Trevor were not.

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#49

Posted 27 February 2014 - 11:41 PM

I think he would have been better as a Lamar side character/npc that showed up from time to time.

And I also have to agree that he was put in for the sake of the SA obsessed kids who just go on and on about CJ and gang life...

I mean honestly, his trailer was deceiving as hell, we only spent like 5 missions in the "hood" before he got a mansion and suddenly was an upstanding citizen.

Pretty much my sentiments.

 

I mean yeah sure, the game is set in a fictional rendition of Los Angeles, so I guess it's only natural to include a gangbanging crime element, but we already had a GTA of which centred its whole backbone around that theme. Time to move on and let that sh*t take a backseat - which is exactly what R* did thankfully. I get the impression that R* felt pressured to deliver a CJ-esque protag to cater towards the SA kids to maximise profit, which is a shame really, as the resources could've been utilised to provide us a more expansive and in-depth narrative between Michael & Trevors tale.


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#50

Posted 27 February 2014 - 11:48 PM

Franklin was the best character in the game because all he was looking for was money. Michael sitting over here crying about missing his family and Trevor over here crying about missing " Brad ". 

So basically what you want is a one-dimensional character and storyline.

 

Does anybody else see the difference between the SA kids, and those of us who actually possess the attention span for more complexity?


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#51

Posted 27 February 2014 - 11:54 PM

 

I think he would have been better as a Lamar side character/npc that showed up from time to time.

And I also have to agree that he was put in for the sake of the SA obsessed kids who just go on and on about CJ and gang life...

I mean honestly, his trailer was deceiving as hell, we only spent like 5 missions in the "hood" before he got a mansion and suddenly was an upstanding citizen.

Pretty much my sentiments.

 

I mean yeah sure, the game is set in a fictional rendition of Los Angeles, so I guess it's only natural to include a gangbanging crime element, but we already had a GTA of which centred its whole backbone around that theme. Time to move on and let that sh*t take a backseat - which is exactly what R* did thankfully. I get the impression that R* felt pressured to deliver a CJ-esque protag to cater towards the SA kids to maximise profit, which is a shame really, as the resources could've been utilised to provide us a more expansive and in-depth narrative between Michael & Trevors tale.

 

LOL from the way your post sounds, it makes it look like your bashing on people who like Franklin. First their isn't any SA kids here because if you could play SA back then you're an adult now. Second what's the point of making two protags when three sounds better " gameplay wise." Yes when I say gameplay wise I mean when they all had different abilities that made them perfect for each role in the game because without Franklin doing the first missions in the start with Michael, the game wouldn't even have heists because Franklin was another reason Michael started doing heists again since Trevor was in the " Country." Plus the game wouldn't even feel right with two protags lol.

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#52

Posted 28 February 2014 - 12:01 AM

He never felt like a real protagonist to me and his storyline wasn't even remotely interesting, it was more like a concatenation of side missions than anything else. To me it felt as though they solely put him in to avoid allegations of racial bias and to please GTA SA fanboys/girls. I did like his early missions though despite them feeling more like side missions, until trevor popped his gender confused head in that is.

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#53

Posted 28 February 2014 - 12:09 AM

 

Franklin was the best character in the game because all he was looking for was money. Michael sitting over here crying about missing his family and Trevor over here crying about missing " Brad ". 

So basically what you want is a one-dimensional character and storyline.

 

Does anybody else see the difference between the SA kids, and those of us who actually possess the attention span for more complexity?

 

Stop being rude man. Who cares about "complexity" as long as we have a awesome story mode it's all good. In the next game we can have two protags and their doesn't have to be a black guy ok?  


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#54

Posted 28 February 2014 - 12:12 AM

 

 

I think he would have been better as a Lamar side character/npc that showed up from time to time.

And I also have to agree that he was put in for the sake of the SA obsessed kids who just go on and on about CJ and gang life...

I mean honestly, his trailer was deceiving as hell, we only spent like 5 missions in the "hood" before he got a mansion and suddenly was an upstanding citizen.

Pretty much my sentiments.

 

I mean yeah sure, the game is set in a fictional rendition of Los Angeles, so I guess it's only natural to include a gangbanging crime element, but we already had a GTA of which centred its whole backbone around that theme. Time to move on and let that sh*t take a backseat - which is exactly what R* did thankfully. I get the impression that R* felt pressured to deliver a CJ-esque protag to cater towards the SA kids to maximise profit, which is a shame really, as the resources could've been utilised to provide us a more expansive and in-depth narrative between Michael & Trevors tale.

 

LOL from the way your post sounds, it makes it look like your bashing on people who like Franklin. First their isn't any SA kids here because if you could play SA back then you're an adult now. Second what's the point of making two protags when three sounds better " gameplay wise." Yes when I say gameplay wise I mean when they all had different abilities that made them perfect for each role in the game because without Franklin doing the first missions in the start with Michael, the game wouldn't even have heists because Franklin was another reason Michael started doing heists again since Trevor was in the " Country." Plus the game wouldn't even feel right with two protags lol.

 

First of all: I refer to the SA fanboys as "kids" because ever since the release of that game, the overwhelming majority of whining I've witnessed against the subsequent GTA games is complaints about features being missing, and to some extent, not being a complete HD replica of the now 10 year old game. Take a look around some of this forum's threads; it's all there for the naked eye.

 

Second of all: I've always stated that having three diverse protags has been exceptional fun, and paid off, and pulled off, extremely well. The difference between I and those who complain about Franklin not having more 'ghetto' oriented content, is that the lack thereof doesn't bother me in the slightest, as I'm able to understand the overall theme of this game was never about that stuff.

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#55

Posted 28 February 2014 - 09:47 AM

He fills the gap between Michael and Trevor's personalities. He was much needed and adds more to the game. I couldn't have played the game with 2 psychopathic protags.

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#56

Posted 28 February 2014 - 10:02 AM

Maybe he's not vital, but he have an important role sometimes (after getting the big mansion), for example "Fresh Meat" mission.

 

But he is quite useless on gunfights IMO, I barely use him if I have the option of using Mike and Trevor, but if I want to drive and nothing more apart from driving, I use him


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#57

Posted 28 February 2014 - 02:07 PM Edited by Official General, 28 February 2014 - 02:09 PM.

The difference between I and those who complain about Franklin not having more 'ghetto' oriented content, is that the lack thereof doesn't bother me in the slightest, as I'm able to understand the overall theme of this game was never about that stuff.

 

You can keep saying that all you want, but at the end of the day, Rockstar gave the impression that a portion of the game would be centered around the gang/hood stuff by simply including Franklin, and this view is further supported by Franklin's trailer appearances that clearly implied significant gang and hood action in the game. 

 

It's obvious Rockstar somehow got things wrong, off the mark, and messed up Franklin's part of the game. If Rockstar knew they were gonna give Franklin such poor offerings, like you say, they should have never made him a protagonist in the first place.


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#58

Posted 28 February 2014 - 02:12 PM

Can't believe this discussion is still happening so many months after release. 

 

The trailer gave the impression that Franklin was from the hood and wanted to get out. It, to my mind, didn't suggest that a large portion of the game would be spent stuck in the hood doing things we've already done. 

 

It suggested, to me, that Franklin's story would be about what he did when he left the hood. Not trudging back over the reasons why he wanted out. 

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#59

Posted 28 February 2014 - 02:27 PM Edited by Official General, 28 February 2014 - 02:54 PM.

Can't believe this discussion is still happening so many months after release. 

 

The trailer gave the impression that Franklin was from the hood and wanted to get out. It, to my mind, didn't suggest that a large portion of the game would be spent stuck in the hood doing things we've already done. 

 

It suggested, to me, that Franklin's story would be about what he did when he left the hood. Not trudging back over the reasons why he wanted out. 

 

Whether or not Franklin wanted out of the gang life is not really the point here. The point being made is that Rockstar gave the clear impression that somehow Franklin was gonna end up being dragged back into some serious gang and hood action, and that it should have been provided.

 

If you believe in your mind that the trailers did not give you the impression that a significant portion of the game (Franklin's part) was gonna be about gangs and the hood, then fine it's your eyes, your view. But I personally think you are either being purposefully ignorant, too stubborn to see logic or just really naive. 


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#60

Posted 28 February 2014 - 03:10 PM

I'm really not, I'm giving you an honest interpretation of what I saw. Why is that so hard to believe? Because it differs from your opinion?

 

We've been here before. You don't like my view, I accept and question yours. If you can't see THAT, you are either being... etc. 

 

We saw that he was from the hood. We see that, right from the f*cking outset, he is not running rocks or pulling drive bys. He's working a sh*tty job for a sh*tty employer. The only thing that drags him back into the hood is that idiot Lamar, who he loves, but deeply resents for that very fact, throughout the entire game. 

 

You are projecting. You are not seeing what is there, you're choosing to see something based on 300-odd frames in a trailer, not the content of the game. 

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