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homosexuality

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sivispacem
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#151

Posted 23 February 2014 - 05:44 PM

Haha, for a moment there I thought phunkism was just a really committed troll and we all looked really stupid for replying to him, then he comes out with this:
 

Keep fueling the fire of God's wrath

 
This guy actually seriously believes the things he is saying!

Naaah lol


I thought I made it quite clear over PM that I didn't want you continuing to instigate arguments in this thread unless you were going to contribute with something that made sense?
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#152

Posted 23 February 2014 - 06:18 PM

 

In my opinion, that's just as annoying as the hetero guys who are constantly saying things like, "LOOK AT THEM TITTIES! I f*ckIN' LOVE TITS! WOOOOOO TITS!"

 

Yes because when I used to go to a club with my mates thats all we said all night. :facedesk:

 

 

I was mainly being sarcastic when I said that, but I actually have been in the presence of guys who acted like that.

 

This is kind off topic, but I was once in a movie theatre and these frat boys bought tickets to see 'The House Bunny', thinking it was a porn film. When an employee told them it was actually a PG-13 comedy, one of them shouted, "It's not a porno?! You've got to be kidding me! I wanted to see tits!"

 

So, it does happen.


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#153

Posted 23 February 2014 - 09:31 PM

Lol at the level of homophobia in here and flawed logic. I'm not replying to anyone in particular, just to a few points I've read. Forgive any spelling errors, I'm on my phone.

Just because it disgusts you it's not natural?

Brah how about you stop caring what two consenting adults do in their private bedroom because it makes you feel uncomfortable and threatens your heterosexuality. That's the only reason I can find for when people react this way towards it.

I don't care for any of the parades and frankly if I were gay, I would want to distance myself from all that because I'm not one to beat my chest and have my sexuality on show. But let people do what they want to do as long as it doesn't hurt anyone.

Love the slippery slope argument. Hurrrr if two dudes f*cking is ok then some will argue necrophilia is! Homosexuals aren't mentally ill and are not perverts like necrophiliacs are. You can't group the two together and anyone who tries to defend themselves f*cking a corpse won't be taken seriously. That's funny to me and flawed logic, comparing homosexuality to the same level as necrophilia. Yeah difference is, no sane person or government will support people f*cking animals or a corpse.

How about you prove to us that homosexuals are mentally ill? I have a handful of gay male and female friends and they're totally sane. They're exactly like me and other heterosexuals. The only difference is how they love.

Do some of you even know any gay people or spout bullsh*t because homosexuality gives you bad feels?

To be honest, debating this is pointless. Neither of you will change your minds. But it's always funny to read the arguments people come up with against homosexuality and what they pull out of their ass/find some random study on the interwebs to support their own bigoted views.

Live and let live. There's no point in debating this, it's always going to be a flame fest and views rarely change.
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Fireman
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#154

Posted 23 February 2014 - 11:24 PM Edited by Fireman, 23 February 2014 - 11:32 PM.

Love the slippery slope argument. Hurrrr if two dudes f*cking is ok then some will argue necrophilia is! Homosexuals aren't mentally ill and are not perverts like necrophiliacs are. You can't group the two together and anyone who tries to defend themselves f*cking a corpse won't be taken seriously. That's funny to me and flawed logic, comparing homosexuality to the same level as necrophilia. Yeah difference is, no sane person or government will support people f*cking animals or a corpse.
 

 

You're having some problems reading posts don't you? Can't say I blame you with how much of a sh*tstorm this turned into but still you could've probably read all posts before coming up with such a comment. 

 

Selective reading might be your speciality; "I READ NECROPHILIA SOMEWHERE, LETS RESPOND TO THAT AND IGNORE EVERYTHING ELSE!"

 

For clarification I used that to counter the idiotic argument of some members that homosexuality is given at birth "because animals are homosexual as well", which makes no sense.

 

You now definitely belong to the most bullsh*t spewing people here. Calling me a homophobe because my opinion is that homosexualty isn't determined at birth, well done. No wonder sh*t turns into a flamefest with you putting words into everyone's mouth and flaming them for things they've never said.

 

You might want to aim your words at a specific member in the future, or quote them before responding and calling everyone a homophobe (which is basically what you did by not pointing out specific members).


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#155

Posted 23 February 2014 - 11:54 PM

I'll direct you to this sentence:  I'm not replying to anyone in particular, just to a few points I've read.

 

One of the first sentences in my post was that I am not replying to anyone in particular. I was not replying solely to you and most of the people in this thread are not homophobes, it shows in their posts. 

 

I don't wish to aim my posts at anyone because I don't want to start/continue this sh*t storm. I responded to a few points from various people and points that people in general bring up when having this debate. I don't want to get into a quote train war with anyone because what is the result going to be? Minds are magically going to be changed?

 

Nope. I'd rather just make a general post with a few of my own points, whether they were brought up or alluded to in the discussion. I have heard the slippery slope argument many times and I have seen it brought up many times. I addressed it, so what? Who says it was in relation to what you posted? Just because you brought it up, any mention of that must be a response to you? I can read a point in someone's post and respond to it or bring up one of my own. 

 

I never called you a homophobe specifically. Direct me to where I posted "Fireman is a homophobe". 

 

You all did a fine job of flaming each other long before I entered into this topic. You can all continue doing so because as I said, debating this isn't going to magically change peoples minds and it will inevitably end up in an actual flame fest. A flame fest isn't someone typing the word "homophobe". 

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#156

Posted 24 February 2014 - 12:09 AM Edited by Fireman, 24 February 2014 - 12:10 AM.

It's not hard to go back two pages and reread the posts and see who you were talking about though, don't need the cyberpolice to backtrace that.

 

But thanks for not calling me homophobe specifically! That's very kind.

 

Problem with this topic is that everyone's discussing different things about homosexuality, because, well, the title is just "homosexuality". We should just blame Finn for making it (though I guess he was drunk so he has an excuse :p).

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#157

Posted 24 February 2014 - 12:19 AM Edited by Danz., 24 February 2014 - 12:26 AM.


The problem I have with it is that some people say they were born gay, that's so crazy. Or the "I was born in another body"-bullsh*t as if it's isn't a choice you make.

 

Because it is a choice, you can even switch back to being straight or bisexual afterwards. Unless you're going for the "but they aren't REAL gays, HUPADURPAUDHARUPDAPURUP".

I gonna build my post based in yours.

 

IMO, sexuality is an option that you can take like any other. You shouldn't be disrespected for any choice of yours, but it doesn't mean that you should get mad at anybody who comments on that.

 

It's not something you're born with. You're not born straight or gay, it's something that society's influences build upon your personality until you've finished to develop it. Personally, I'm currently straight and I don't think it will change until my death, however it wasn't until a certain age that I started to feel attracted to girls, making me an heterossexual guy. The same works for homossexual people, I guess.

 

The only thing I still don't get is: why some homossexual people tend to have behaviors that are typical of the opposite sex? For example:

 

What's the need for a gay man to act in a flamboyant/girlish/oversensitive way if he's just a dude who happens to be sexually attracted to males? He is still a man, he has a penis, testosterone is his main steroid hormone, couldn't him just be an actual homossexual man?

 

If anybody has the proper explanation for this, please answer me.


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#158

Posted 24 February 2014 - 12:26 AM

Am I a homophobe if I don't want gay men to hit on me?


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#159

Posted 24 February 2014 - 12:27 AM

 

The problem I have with it is that some people say they were born gay, that's so crazy. Or the "I was born in another body"-bullsh*t as if it's isn't a choice you make.

 

Because it is a choice, you can even switch back to being straight or bisexual afterwards. Unless you're going for the "but they aren't REAL gays, HUPADURPAUDHARUPDAPURUP".

I gonna build my post based in yours.

 

IMO, sexuality is an option that you can take like any other. You shouldn't be disrespected for any choice of yours, but it doesn't mean that you should get mad at anybody who comments on that. It's not something you're born with. You're not born straight or gay, it's something that society's influences build upon your personality until you've finished to develop it. Personally, I'm currently straight and I don't think it will change until my death, however it wasn't until a certain age that I started to feel attracted to girls, making me an heterossexual guy. The same works for homossexual people, I guess.

 

Would you personally, right now, be able to go over to a man and have sex with him? Could you force yourself to be attracted to him? Would you kiss him?

 

If you answered no to any of those, it's not a choice.

 

 

 

The only thing I still don't get is: why some homossexual people tend to have behaviors that are typical of the opposite sex? For example:

 

What's the need for a gay man to act in a flamboyant/girlish/oversensitive way if he's just a dude who happens to be sexually attracted to males? He is still a man, he has a penis, testosterone is his main steroid hormone, couldn't him just be an actual homossexual man?

 

If anybody has the proper explanation for this, please answer me.

 

I don't have a proper answer for that. Maybe it's a social thing to clearly announce that they're homosexuals. I don't believe that's a genetic predisposition.

 

 

Am I a homophobe if I don't want gay men to hit on me?

 

No. No one wants people they're not attracted to to hit on them, unless they're conceited. 


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#160

Posted 24 February 2014 - 12:28 AM

 

The problem I have with it is that some people say they were born gay, that's so crazy. Or the "I was born in another body"-bullsh*t as if it's isn't a choice you make.

 

Because it is a choice, you can even switch back to being straight or bisexual afterwards. Unless you're going for the "but they aren't REAL gays, HUPADURPAUDHARUPDAPURUP".

The only thing I still don't get is: why some homossexual people tend to have behaviors that are typical of the opposite sex? For example:

 

 

And plenty of heterosexual men have behaviours that are typical of the opposite sex and some don't, same with LGBT people


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#161

Posted 24 February 2014 - 12:34 AM

The only thing I still don't get is: why some homossexual people tend to have behaviors that are typical of the opposite sex? For example:

 

What's the need for a gay man to act in a flamboyant/girlish/oversensitive way if he's just a dude who happens to be sexually attracted to males? He is still a man, he has a penis, testosterone is his main steroid hormone, couldn't him just be an actual homossexual man?

 

If anybody has the proper explanation for this, please answer me.

 

It's called stereotypes.


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#162

Posted 24 February 2014 - 12:34 AM

I watched a documentary where the same question was posed and they indeed found that gay men have brains similar to females. In the sense that their brains make them perform tasks and act in female typical ways.

 

I can't find it but I found a similar clip of someone getting a brain scan done. Make what you will of it.

http://www.youtube.c...aid=P5_wVof8qiA

 

Now I don't believe that all gay men are flamboyant and so on and so forth, I suppose it's just easier to notice the ones that are.

 

In one of my sociology classes there was a also a study brought up that the more males a mother has preceding a male child she is having next, the more the odds are that you'll have a gay son. This is because the female's body is more used to hormones etc that produce a male child by that point. Whereas when she first has a male child, her body sees those hormones as foreign and creates antibodies to fight them. Something along those lines, the lecture was a few years ago. I'm sure there are studies that argue the contrary. For every study "proving" one thing, there's always another claiming the opposite so make what you will of all this.

 

I found this article on it doing a quick google search.

http://www.telegraph...-being-gay.html

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#163

Posted 24 February 2014 - 01:02 AM Edited by Danz., 24 February 2014 - 01:28 AM.

Would you personally, right now, be able to go over to a man and have sex with him? Could you force yourself to be attracted to him? Would you kiss him?
 
If you answered no to any of those, it's not a choice.

No, not even if it was a girl. It doesn't work like that, at least for me.
 
Damn! I would not kiss/f*ck a girl just for the sake of it, same works for doing it to men. And it's impossible to be attracted to someone just because you're forcing it.
 
Honestly, there was a moment in my life around the age 11 when I started to feet attracted to some girls and also to some boys, the latter in a smaller scale though. It was weird as hell because, before that, I wasn't able to feel that way for anybody. Back then I thought it was wrong to feel attracted to people of the same sex, due to the fact I was raised thinking that way. Everybody around me was straight (or at least I thought they were), so I just said to myself:
 
"F*ck this gay sh*t, girls are what it is at..."
 
I know it might sound very homophobic and immature if you read it now, without any context, but I'm just being really honest by telling the internet how I used to think when puberty started to hit home.
 
I learnt to respect homossexual people when I started to get more and more in contact with them, learning that they weren't a "disease" as my family told me, learning that they are people like any other, learning that sexuality is just a choice like any other. And I'm proud of that.

I chose to be straight. I'm just not sure if it's possible to reverse it once you grow up.
 
That's how I view this "touchy" subject.
------------------
 
Thanks Audiophile, your post was really enlightening. :^:

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#164

Posted 24 February 2014 - 01:02 AM Edited by Fireman, 24 February 2014 - 01:09 AM.

 

 

Would you personally, right now, be able to go over to a man and have sex with him? Could you force yourself to be attracted to him? Would you kiss him?

 

If you answered no to any of those, it's not a choice.

 

 

Your definition of a choice is a bit short-term isn't it? You're acting as if no human has ever made a long-term decision to, for example, like men and that not wanting to change that choice, means it wasn't a choice.

 

What would you say if I answered yes, that I was either bisexual or gay, so there was no real point in asking the question?

 

I'd personally like to see the same questions asked for younger children (err... might have to be careful with that though :p, maybe more in the "would you kiss him/her" way and without the forced)

 

 

 

I'm just not sure if it's possible to reverse it once you grow up. That's how I view this "touchy" subject.

 

 

There was this widow woman who remarried a woman after being with her husband for 30+ years. That woman was a close friend of hers and apparantely love was found in their friendship after her husband past away, but I can't find the source of that anymore, it was on TV like a month ago.

 

Problem is it's hard to verify wether or not she's been lying the entire time, was just seeking attention or if she fell in love with her because of the loss of her husband and that her friend was already lesbian, waiting to strike D:


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#165

Posted 24 February 2014 - 01:12 AM Edited by Panz, 24 February 2014 - 01:18 AM.

Would you personally, right now, be able to go over to a man and have sex with him? Could you force yourself to be attracted to him? Would you kiss him?

 

If you answered no to any of those, it's not a choice.

Ehhhh.

 

I don't know how much I can agree with the idea that people are born homosexual. I believe that, yes, you can be born with particular genes that may code for a different ratio of hormones that might influence your attraction to the other sex, but unless we find a "gay/straight" gene, I can't 100% believe that anyone is born gay. I believe socialization plays a much larger role in a person's eventual sexual preference than anything else, and yes, that means it's a choice.

 

The thing about your example is that a lot of our preferences are formed and "solidified" as we develop and mature into adults. Once we're past development, it becomes much more difficult to manipulate the brain, and so engaging in sexual acts with a sex opposite that of our preference might seem more impossible now than it may have when we were kids.

 

If you ask a child to try the same thing, the results may be different. Hell, I experimented with other girls as a kid, and a lot of little girls have silly little kissing games. I'm sure boys are more experimental as kids than they are now, too. So yeah, I think it's a choice, but I think it's a choice that we form as we're socialized early on. I'm not saying that that preference can't change during adulthood, but it seems to be much more unlikely and seems to require more distinctive experiences for that to occur. 

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#166

Posted 24 February 2014 - 01:22 AM

I like how the people that insist you can't be born gay aren't gay. I'm sure you've got a lot of first hand experience from which to base your beliefs.


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#167

Posted 24 February 2014 - 01:26 AM

I don't really care if a guy is gay or not while they're not putting the moves on me or putting the moves on each other around me to the point where it's seriously over the top.

 

That doesn't make much sense. You say that you simply accept people for being homosexual, but you cannot stand gay men kissing each other. Well, you aren't really in favor of homosexual men. That's pretty much the point of being homosexual.


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#168

Posted 24 February 2014 - 01:29 AM

reform: Unless an infant can tell me if he/she is gay or if we find a gene that induces the preference, I won't believe it. If by "first hand experience" you mean scientific evidence, then no, I don't have any. Wish I did, though.

 

Even a year of socialization can tremendously influence a person's preferences depending on the environment they're surrounded with, so it's a bit too close to tell. Unfortunately, we don't really know enough about the brain to know anything for sure. 


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#169

Posted 24 February 2014 - 01:30 AM

There's nothing wrong with two dudes sharing a mortgage & shizz.  Let them be miserable like the rest of us!

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#170

Posted 24 February 2014 - 01:34 AM Edited by Danz., 24 February 2014 - 01:36 AM.

 

I don't really care if a guy is gay or not while they're not putting the moves on me or putting the moves on each other around me to the point where it's seriously over the top.

 
That doesn't make much sense. You say that you simply accept people for being homosexual, but you cannot stand gay men kissing each other. Well, you aren't really in favor of homosexual men. That's pretty much the point of being homosexual.

 

Seeing people around you kissing like there's no tomorrow is gross/weird regardless of their sexual orientation, especially if you're single. It's something meant to be done in private, not where there are like 30 people within 25m of you.

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#171

Posted 24 February 2014 - 01:43 AM

 

 

I don't really care if a guy is gay or not while they're not putting the moves on me or putting the moves on each other around me to the point where it's seriously over the top.

 
That doesn't make much sense. You say that you simply accept people for being homosexual, but you cannot stand gay men kissing each other. Well, you aren't really in favor of homosexual men. That's pretty much the point of being homosexual.

 

Seeing people around you kissing like there's no tomorrow is gross/weird regardless of their sexual orientation, especially if you're single. It's something meant to be done in private, not where there are like 30 people within 25m of you.

 

 

I disagree. The majority of people that witness single couples kissing considers it as acceptable. They might look, but it won't be a long stare. By weird/gross, if you are insisting of full-on tongues, well.. that's a different story.


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#172

Posted 24 February 2014 - 01:59 AM

Am I a homophobe if I don't want gay men to hit on me?

 

If only hetereosexual men granted women the same privilege. If you think it is acceptable for men to hit on women, but not for homosexual men to hit on other men, then yes, you're a homophobe; Because you granting seperate rights to somebody based on their sexuality. Not to mention that you do not know that the woman you're hitting on in the bar is actually straight, you just assume she is because society dictates to us that hetereosexuality is the "standard" that everybody adheres to unless otherwise stated. They might be homosexual themselves, to which I pose the question:

 

"Are gay women wrong if they don't want straight men to hit on them?"

 

As for the whole "nature vs. nuture" argument: I can't be bothered getting into scientific arguments because I think that ignores the main issue that is homophobia is real and dangerous. I have a lot of friends who identify as gay or bisexual and they definietly don't think it's a choice. They didn't suddenly go "from now on I am going to only like people of the same gender as me". It doesn't work like that. I don't think a single gay person will tell you that. I only ever hear straight people say it. To which you've got to ask: "When did you first decide to be straight?"

 

On the topic of gay pride: I have my criticisms of gay pride, but they come from a more radical rather than homophobic perspective. Gay pride has it's origins in queer self-defence during a time when the police could arrest you for being openly gay or trans*. Gay pride was an act of rebellion. About reclaiming power from your oppressors. And to a lesser extent, that is still the case. We may have legalised gay marriage in quite a few parts of the world, but homophobia is still rampant - both at a street and institutional level. Still record number of suicides amongst LGBTQ people; still record numbers of homelessness amongst LGBTQ people etc. These issues are still relevant and need to be fought for. If you're saying that gay people have no right to march down the street, then you're saying they essentially have no right to fight for their basic human rights.

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#173

Posted 24 February 2014 - 02:16 AM Edited by Vlynor, 24 February 2014 - 02:23 AM.

 

Would you personally, right now, be able to go over to a man and have sex with him? Could you force yourself to be attracted to him? Would you kiss him?

 

If you answered no to any of those, it's not a choice.

 

If you ask a child to try the same thing, the results may be different. Hell, I experimented with other girls as a kid, and a lot of little girls have silly little kissing games. I'm sure boys are more experimental as kids than they are now, too. So yeah, I think it's a choice, but I think it's a choice that we form as we're socialized early on. I'm not saying that that preference can't change during adulthood, but it seems to be much more unlikely and seems to require more distinctive experiences for that to occur. 

 

 

Can you say that's choice or nurture rather than nature? Are children experimenting an indication of one's sexual behavior? Or is it just that, experimenting? I don't think you can say children are sexually attracted to each other at that age (I'm assuming you're saying a bit older than toddler), can you?


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#174

Posted 24 February 2014 - 02:24 AM Edited by Panz, 24 February 2014 - 02:26 AM.

No, I wouldn't say they're sexually attracted to each other, but those interactions could influence their future sexual preference. It could just be experimentation, but even the smallest behaviors and interactions have been shown to affect who we are later in life, so anything is possible. And that was really just one example. I think other aspects of socialization really have a much bigger role in it, but that's just my opinion and there really isn't enough concrete evidence that I've seen to firmly support either of these ideas for sure

 

I'll have to do some research on some scientific studies about this topic. I'm interested now. :p

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#175

Posted 24 February 2014 - 02:38 AM

Don't most people just fall on a scale somewhere in regards to sexuality?

 

Kinsey looked into this, did he not? And he found that everyone falls at a certain place on a scale, that no one is simply 100% straight or 100% gay? 

 

I don't know. I mean, I've never felt sexually attracted to other men. I just always knew I was straight and I never questioned it. On the other hand, I have a few gay friends who didn't come out until later on in life and they say they always knew they were gay, they felt it and they never felt attraction to the opposite gender. Even when they were in a relationship with someone from the opposite gender. They just did that because it's what was expect of them and what was considered right. Eventually, they realized it was not for them, that they couldn't be satisfied with that so they came out.

 

I'm not in a position to make judgements because I am not gay so I don't know how it is. All I know is, I never decided to be straight. I just am. And gay people that I know who actually went through the experience say they knew they were gay, the only choice in the matter was if they were honest about it and acted on it rather than doing what was expected and proper. 

 

I believe there has to be something within us, genetic, hormonal, whatever and it's not all choice. Who would choose to be gay somewhere where it's considered a crime, where it's ostracized?  

 

I've read about instances where lesbian women in Uganda were forcibly raped in order to turn them straight. 

 

The more I read and see it, the more I don't believe it's a choice. 


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#176

Posted 24 February 2014 - 04:07 AM

see, this is why we can't have nice things.

 

these threads should be taken out back and shot in the head before they're allowed to see the light of day.

topics like this should only exist within the carefully crafted confines of the D&D forum.

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Average white guy
  • Average white guy

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#177

Posted 24 February 2014 - 06:39 AM

 

Am I a homophobe if I don't want gay men to hit on me?

 

If only hetereosexual men granted women the same privilege. If you think it is acceptable for men to hit on women, but not for homosexual men to hit on other men, then yes, you're a homophobe; Because you granting seperate rights to somebody based on their sexuality. Not to mention that you do not know that the woman you're hitting on in the bar is actually straight, you just assume she is because society dictates to us that hetereosexuality is the "standard" that everybody adheres to unless otherwise stated. They might be homosexual themselves, to which I pose the question:

I don't really care whether or not gay men hit on other men. I, like many other (straight) guys just don't want to be awkwardly hit on by gay men. To me it's not a homophobic thing, just sexual preference. If that makes sense. 


CatDog96
  • CatDog96

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#178

Posted 24 February 2014 - 06:41 AM

I don't care if i'm hit on by gay men, I enjoy being hit on by anyone.

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ObsydianRaven
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#179

Posted 24 February 2014 - 08:31 AM

I don't care what a person's sexuality is or what gender they identify as, if you're a good person then that's all that matters.
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Jimmy_Leppard
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#180

Posted 24 February 2014 - 08:35 AM

 

I don't really care if a guy is gay or not while they're not putting the moves on me or putting the moves on each other around me to the point where it's seriously over the top.

 

That doesn't make much sense. You say that you simply accept people for being homosexual, but you cannot stand gay men kissing each other. Well, you aren't really in favor of homosexual men. That's pretty much the point of being homosexual.

 

Are you dumb? Don't play that card on me. Where did I state that I don't stand gay men kissing each other? Nowhere. Dumbass.





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