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Was Three Leaf Clover better than all of V's heist?

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peluche503
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#61

Posted 18 February 2014 - 11:34 AM

 

 

I don't get why people keep saying Three Leaf Clover is just a cutscene. Stealing the cash from the vault is a player controlled action. To me it's just a much of heist as any in GTA V.

Yeah but it would have been good if we could have had Niko walk in the bank and stick the gun in the teller's face than round up the hostages and all of that. It was a great mission but the participation in the actual robberies puts V's heists over the edge for me.

True, but the level of participation is about the same as the loud and dumb approach during the jewelry store heist which for the most part is just a cutscene until you get to steal the jewels yourself.

 

 

Stealing the cash was a weak performance and the heist itself wasn't well executed, it could have been like Niko holds the hostages and then when they blow up the vault, Niko gets the cash, it would have been so much better, especially because this a bank robbery and bank robberies are supposed to feel like that . Instead we just got a cutscene that didn't make you feel involved at all, a heist is supposed to make you feel involved because that's what it is.

 

In The Jewelry heist when if you take the smart approach you are directed to throw gas in order to put the people in the store unconscious, that's part of the heist process as well and then Michael and the crew come and we get a small cutscene and then we start stealing the jewels. This small event makes you feel like you are committing a real robbery, it doesn't make me feel underwhelmed instead it just satisfying because I'm doing this new cool stuff.

 

Coming from Vice City and San Andreas, the writer should have known better to actually put this same amount of feel in TLC.

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#62

Posted 18 February 2014 - 11:43 AM Edited by SupraDork, 18 February 2014 - 11:50 AM.

Three Leaf Clover was by far my favourite mission in GTA IV.  However, the heists in GTA V I find much more enjoyable.  There may be only two options, but there are at least options.  After playing the heists in GTA V, going back and playing Three Leaf Clover doesn't feel the same.  It's purely scripted... one script.  It's still fun, but I enjoy the dynamic *feeling* (albeit probably purely cosmetic) that comes with choices.  Plus, there is a build up to the heists... preparation fetch quests.  Three Leaf Clover ends up being: I went to the big 'P' on the map to get my mission and the mission started.  It didn't have the same build up, tension, or suspense factor as the GTA V heists.

 

And there was no player action in TLC.  Cutscenes were where everything happened.  It was nothing but cutscenes.  The only player action was the following: drive the crew to the bank, walk into the bank, get the cash out of the vault after the safe had been blown (after all of the intensifying action took place via cutscenes making it... not so intense), shoot your way out of the place.  I'd have loved to have more moments of interaction between walking into the bank and blowing the safe.

 

GTA V heists feel more organic, like the player is more involved.  Less of being thrown in and out of the heists between all of the  important bits that take place in the cutscenes.


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#63

Posted 18 February 2014 - 11:49 AM Edited by The Odyssey, 18 February 2014 - 11:50 AM.

IMO:

 

Jewelry Store Job > Three Leaf Clover

Merryweather Heist < Three Leaf Clover

Blitz Play < Three Leaf Clover

Paleto Score > Three Leaf Clover

The Bureau Raid (both ways) > Three Leaf Clover

The Big Score (subtle) > Three Leaf Clover (obvious) < Three Leaf Clover

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peluche503
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#64

Posted 18 February 2014 - 12:00 PM

IMO:

 

Jewelry Store Job > Three Leaf Clover

Merryweather Heist < Three Leaf Clover

Blitz Play < Three Leaf Clover

Paleto Score > Three Leaf Clover

The Bureau Raid (both ways) > Three Leaf Clover

The Big Score (subtle) > Three Leaf Clover (obvious) < Three Leaf Clover

 

Well this is how I feel:

 

Jewelry Heist (smart) > TLC = Jewelry Heist (Loud)

Merryweather Heist < TLC

Blitz Play = TLC

Paleto Score > TLC

Bureau Raid (both ways) < TLC

The Big Score (obvious) > TLC = The Big Score (subtle)

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Miamivicecity
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#65

Posted 18 February 2014 - 12:28 PM

I don't get why people keep saying Three Leaf Clover is just a cutscene. Stealing the cash from the vault is a player controlled action. To me it's just a much of heist as any in GTA V.

Yeah but it would have been good if we could have had Niko walk in the bank and stick the gun in the teller's face than round up the hostages and all of that. It was a great mission but the participation in the actual robberies puts V's heists over the edge for me.
True, but the level of participation is about the same as the loud and dumb approach during the jewelry store heist which for the most part is just a cutscene until you get to steal the jewels yourself.
 
Stealing the cash was a weak performance and the heist itself wasn't well executed, it could have been like Niko holds the hostages and then when they blow up the vault, Niko gets the cash, it would have been so much better, especially because this a bank robbery and bank robberies are supposed to feel like that . Instead we just got a cutscene that didn't make you feel involved at all, a heist is supposed to make you feel involved because that's what it is.
 
In The Jewelry heist when if you take the smart approach you are directed to throw gas in order to put the people in the store unconscious, that's part of the heist process as well and then Michael and the crew come and we get a small cutscene and then we start stealing the jewels. This small event makes you feel like you are committing a real robbery, it doesn't make me feel underwhelmed instead it just satisfying because I'm doing this new cool stuff.
 
Coming from Vice City and San Andreas, the writer should have known better to actually put this same amount of feel in TLC.
Well "feel" is rather subjective. I still got a feel I was involved in the heist and really I found the cutscene more entertaining than any of GTA V's heists cutscenes.

The writer (s) used clever irony when they picked the name as a four leaf clover is considered lucky in Ireland yet the guys run into all sorts of bad luck when Michael is killed and Packie's/Derrick's bumbling during the hold up.

I'm only comparing it to GTA V's heists based on the first time I played both games. When I first played GTA IV up until that point there really wasn't anything that had that sort of intensity. I remember thinking as I drove to the bank not knowing what was going to happen.

With GTA V I was kind of over doing repetitive heist prep tasks and the heists that had no reward didn't help much either.

It lost its spark around Blitz Play IMO.

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#66

Posted 18 February 2014 - 12:32 PM

 When I first played GTA IV up until that point there really wasn't anything that had that sort of intensity. I remember thinking as I drove to the bank not knowing what was going to happen.


With GTA V I was kind of over doing repetitive heist prep tasks and the heists that had no reward didn't help much either.

And that's what we're saying. People like TLC because it just appeared out of the blue.

 

If I remember correctly, only one heist had no reward. All the others rewarded us with cash. 


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#67

Posted 18 February 2014 - 12:34 PM

Blitz Play and the Merryweather heist (both options) don't give any reward.

peluche503
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#68

Posted 18 February 2014 - 12:46 PM Edited by peluche503, 18 February 2014 - 12:48 PM.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't get why people keep saying Three Leaf Clover is just a cutscene. Stealing the cash from the vault is a player controlled action. To me it's just a much of heist as any in GTA V.

Yeah but it would have been good if we could have had Niko walk in the bank and stick the gun in the teller's face than round up the hostages and all of that. It was a great mission but the participation in the actual robberies puts V's heists over the edge for me.
True, but the level of participation is about the same as the loud and dumb approach during the jewelry store heist which for the most part is just a cutscene until you get to steal the jewels yourself.
 
Stealing the cash was a weak performance and the heist itself wasn't well executed, it could have been like Niko holds the hostages and then when they blow up the vault, Niko gets the cash, it would have been so much better, especially because this a bank robbery and bank robberies are supposed to feel like that . Instead we just got a cutscene that didn't make you feel involved at all, a heist is supposed to make you feel involved because that's what it is.
 
In The Jewelry heist when if you take the smart approach you are directed to throw gas in order to put the people in the store unconscious, that's part of the heist process as well and then Michael and the crew come and we get a small cutscene and then we start stealing the jewels. This small event makes you feel like you are committing a real robbery, it doesn't make me feel underwhelmed instead it just satisfying because I'm doing this new cool stuff.
 
Coming from Vice City and San Andreas, the writer should have known better to actually put this same amount of feel in TLC.
Well "feel" is rather subjective. I still got a feel I was involved in the heist and really I found the cutscene more entertaining than any of GTA V's heists cutscenes.

The writer (s) used clever irony when they picked the name as a four leaf clover is considered lucky in Ireland yet the guys run into all sorts of bad luck when Michael is killed and Packie's/Derrick's bumbling during the hold up.

I'm only comparing it to GTA V's heists based on the first time I played both games. When I first played GTA IV up until that point there really wasn't anything that had that sort of intensity. I remember thinking as I drove to the bank not knowing what was going to happen.

With GTA V I was kind of over doing repetitive heist prep tasks and the heists that had no reward didn't help much either.

It lost its spark around Blitz Play IMO.

 

 

That is true, but, the cutscenes in the bank didn't help at all as well. As for the heists prep, while there were some that were lackluster like the Blitz Play and The Bureau heist. I found the tasks for the first heist, the merryweather heist, the paleto score, and the big score obvious approach to be rather fun because they provided the freedom to complete them way I wanted to do them, which takes a way the sense of repetitiveness.


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#69

Posted 18 February 2014 - 01:15 PM

Blitz Play and the Merryweather heist (both options) don't give any reward.

Oh, thanks for reminding me. I guess my memory is sh*t. 


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#70

Posted 18 February 2014 - 03:05 PM

The Paleto Bay heist was definitely better than The Three Leaf Clover. My favourite one!

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#71

Posted 18 February 2014 - 03:17 PM

I bet if we asked Packie (assuming the player lets him live & utilizes him), he'd say the Paleto Heist was way more intense than TLC.

 

Then of course there are all of the others, including The Big One, which I'd guarantee would take the cake in his eyes, considering the exponentially larger take he gets at the end (undoubtedly making him richer than Niko). 


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#72

Posted 18 February 2014 - 03:24 PM

No

Three Leaf Clover was exciting, but it was the exact same as every other mission in GTA IV

Drive to Location
Big Shoot Out

Escape Police
 

That's the same format as the jewelry store heist. Or the big score but with a helicopter.

 

V's heist were cool but very disappointing. Very unsatisfying when only half pay. the "planning" was also not as in depth as i was expecting.


Three leaf clover was done from a gunman's point of view, and TBH the charisma between the characters, the tying with BOGT, the sheer character that IV had and V lacks made it better in my eyes, but it's still different.

It's like saying Pepsi is better than Pizza because it quenches your thirst. Sure. But Pizza cures your hunger. Both are great, and depending on your needs one may be better than the other.

 

TLC carries a sort of lore about it. it was IV's finest moment or at least one of them. I think it comes from the opinions that IV is the better game.

As ReekyAlex said, it stands out from the rest. The reason you get this awesome missions is largely down to the contrast in missions - IV had 1 heist, assassinations, racing type missions and a lot of "calmer" missions. The big moments come about - the snow storm, TLC etc - after "quiet" periods, and they appear louder by contrast. V has little of this - R* tried to make V constant excitement - and in doing that there's no tension dynamic and thus no contrast like "Weekend at Bernies" and "Union Drive" for example.

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#73

Posted 18 February 2014 - 03:28 PM

That's the same format as the jewelry store heist. Or the big score but with a helicopter.

 

 

V's heist were cool but very disappointing. Very unsatisfying when only half pay. the "planning" was also not as in depth as i was expecting.


Three leaf clover was done from a gunman's point of view, and TBH the charisma between the characters, the tying with BOGT, the sheer character that IV had and V lacks made it better in my eyes, but it's still different.

It's like saying Pepsi is better than Pizza because it quenches your thirst. Sure. But Pizza cures your hunger. Both are great, and depending on your needs one may be better than the other.

 

TLC carries a sort of lore about it. it was IV's finest moment or at least one of them. I think it comes from the opinions that IV is the better game.

As ReekyAlex said, it stands out from the rest. The reason you get this awesome missions is largely down to the contrast in missions - IV had 1 heist, assassinations, racing type missions and a lot of "calmer" missions. The big moments come about - the snow storm, TLC etc - after "quiet" periods, and they appear louder by contrast. V has little of this - R* tried to make V constant excitement - and in doing that there's no tension dynamic and thus no contrast like "Weekend at Bernies" and "Union Drive" for example.

 

 

V has less missions, so consider that when taking shots at its pacing in comparison to IV.


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#74

Posted 25 February 2014 - 02:52 PM Edited by liquidussnake119, 25 February 2014 - 02:53 PM.

 

No

Three Leaf Clover was exciting, but it was the exact same as every other mission in GTA IV

Drive to Location
Big Shoot Out

Escape Police
 

That's the same format as the jewelry store heist. Or the big score but with a helicopter.

 

Except that there is no shoot out at all in the Jewelry Store Heist, there is an elaborate escape from the cops instead of a generic "hide in the subway or just drive away" escape.

 

And the Big Score shootout (I assume you're talking about obvious) is a lot more grandiose compared to Three Leaf Clover, which was literally just running down a side street and into the subway.

 

You like TLC?  That's fine.  But don't act like it was anything close to being the same format as GTA V's greatest heists.

 

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#75

Posted 25 February 2014 - 03:54 PM

My point is that, essentially, they are the same - drive, shoot, drive. A police chase is a police chase. A shoot out is a shootout. And in one instance you run from the bank shooting cops to the subway and the other you run from the bank shooting cops to the getaway vehicles. There are huge similarities and yes, there might be more to one, but the format is the same; shoot cops.
 

That's simply the nature of GTA and i feel it foolish for R* to try to hide from it.

 

 

 

Mastershake: that's kind of my point. There's no room to maneuver. There's no dynamic that previous GTAs had. It's just a list of missions that were meant to be epic and awesome but in reality were no better than some of GTA series highlights. I'm not saying that they are crap, but that Rockstar put all of their eggs in one basket, but that basket had a hole in it.


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#76

Posted 25 February 2014 - 05:39 PM

GTA IV wasn't a heist game, and GTA V was. For you guys to compare something that wasn't even really a major heist in the GTA IV, to a game that was BASED off of heists, I think you guys are crazy. This is just like the TBoGT VS. GTA V as a whole thread. You can't really compare them, because they're two completely different animals. So before you, or Blood comes in telling me how great GTA V was and how it'll never be topped, if it wasn't for 3 Leaf Clover, we probably wouldn't have anything to use as a basis. We probably would've been getting 3 Leaf Clover-type missions in GTA V and we all would've been happier than a pig in sh*t. And if you're going to use the basis that 3 Leaf was just running and shooting, isn't that what you do in majority of GTA's missions? So as for that to be a major downfall, you really mustn't have played all that much.


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#77

Posted 25 February 2014 - 05:53 PM

Three Leaf Clover was a pretty damn good mission, but before I judge if it was better than V's Heists or not, I'll have to replay them all first. I only played each heist once in V, so I legitimately forgot how they were, lol.


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#78

Posted 25 February 2014 - 10:13 PM

overall Heists were pretty overhyped in V; to me it seemed like they were advertised as side missions akin to gang warfare in San Andreas, only this time you get a crew together from a repertoire of criminals, gather up resources and then hit it. starting with small town FLEECA's and armoured vans; then moving on to larger banks and jewel stores. though I was glad Heists were included as part of the main story, I think the ability to independently scope out a joint, get a crew and turn the place would have been much more satisfying than Lester creeping over Michael's shoulder...make it how Michael and Trevor described the old days, build the crew into something solid and you'll be hitting banks; keep having crew members die and you'll be stuck with liquor stores and cash trucks. The difference between Three Leaf Clover is that you're playing as a gunman; just like Norm Richards, Gus Mota or Hugh Welsh; why should Gerald (who was obviously running the show behind the scenes) trust some kid off the street (Niko) to get hold of the explosives and rifles just because his coke head brother Packie vouched for him? Granted Packie puts his trust in Niko for grabbing the cash, otherwise we'd have been treated to a cutscene of Niko scratching his balls whilst Packie grabs the money. I think to compare Three Leaf Clover with one the GTA V Heists is to compare a generic shooting mission in Liberty City Stories with a similar mission in IV; IV allows more freedom to complete missions how you see fit, and if you ask me, V feels like it railroads you a whole lot more than IV, especially with the three playable characters.

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#79

Posted 26 February 2014 - 01:55 AM

I seriously want what some of you guys are smoking. I'm also wondering why no ones gone full nostalgia and claimed The Job or Caligulas is better than anything in IV or V.

Everyone's entitled to their opinion (it's the classic line used by those with sh*tty opinions) ...but some opinions are bad and should be labeled as such. I seriously think we've hit a high point here boys.

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#80

Posted 26 February 2014 - 01:57 AM

I seriously want what some of you guys are smoking. I'm also wondering why no ones gone full nostalgia and claimed The Job or Caligulas is better than anything in IV or V.

Everyone's entitled to their opinion (it's the classic line used by those with sh*tty opinions) ...but some opinions are bad and should be labeled as such. I seriously think we've hit a high point here boys.

tumblr_n18074cwbR1shojmzo1_500.gif

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#81

Posted 26 February 2014 - 02:20 AM

I want to know why most people think Three Leaf Clover is better than all of V's heist.

 

Granted I do agree is better than some. Ex: The Merryweather Heist

 

To me the Big Score(obvious approach) is slightly better than it.

 

Reasons:

 

1. The heist was very involved.

2. The Intensity of the Shootout was far better.

3. The Police chase was far intense.

 

Does anyone else agrees or disagrees?

 

 

No 

I like Three Leaf Clover but the heist in gta 5 are more planned you can choose your crew so you feel more like if you are pulling out a real heist   


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#82

Posted 26 February 2014 - 02:31 AM

I seriously want what some of you guys are smoking. I'm also wondering why no ones gone full nostalgia and claimed The Job or Caligulas is better than anything in IV or V.

Everyone's entitled to their opinion (it's the classic line used by those with sh*tty opinions) ...but some opinions are bad and should be labeled as such. I seriously think we've hit a high point here boys.

 

 

I liked it but i think gta v ones are better

 

but of course we have always have different opinions Vicious


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#83

Posted 26 February 2014 - 02:00 PM

And if you're going to use the basis that 3 Leaf was just running and shooting, isn't that what you do in majority of GTA's missions?

 

No, that's what you do in a majority of GTA IV missions.  Most missions in the rest of the series were a little more creative than that.

 

It's not entirely a bad thing, mind you, but everyone seems to agree that Three Leaf Clover was the diamond in the rough of GTAIV, but not everyone seems to understand why that was.  


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#84

Posted 27 February 2014 - 11:27 AM

Not better than all of them, Jewellery Store and Paleto Bay were better missions, as was The Big Score, I'd say it's around the middle for me, better than Merryweather (pointless) and even better than Blitz Play (which wasn't suppose to be a Heist originally!).

I've just realised WHY i think TLC is better.

 

It's more satisfying.

You rob a bank, shoot sh*t up, escape, and get what was it, 25K?

In V, the bigged-up, overhyped Blitzplay (which was cool) gave you nothing. Merryweather heist was freaking fun, but gave you nothing - 20MIL the game said, then "NO"

The pelato bay one, imo, is overrated. It's a shootout with a minigun. Great mission, but i can think of better.

 

the jewelry store had potential to be this nice stealth thing - sneak in and out and BAM, ghost it. But the ties to the story mean it had to be loud, so all that work...

 

TLC didn't even pretend to be anything other than a simple shootout. It was epic because it was a huge climatic moment in IV's story - i understand why people call it bland; it's not wall to wall excitement, and that's what makes it better. TLC came along and was like this loud, double-time climax in an otherwise quiet song.

V was just flatlining at the top, a constant level of the same, so no dynamic between a nice cool "take a gun just in case" mission and "sh*ts going down"

 

And the heists - i feel R* missed a trick. Planning should have been so much more open. Plan a lot more. escape routes, where to store the cars (more than one) backup plans, buy a safehouse to plan and retreat to, a plan to leave the city and avoid the heat...... a plan to cover up the heist (if you chose, eliminating crew members)
And a chance system - plan the perfect heist and go in, out quiet, get away unseen. But there's a random multiplier that could have a cop patrol cruise past at the wrong time, a hostage panic, or decide to make a stand, another crew robbing the same place (lol), power cut, a fire, one of your team f*cking up etc.

That would make it more interesting but most of all, you'd need to get paid. FIB (i understand the purpose of that one) Merryweather and Blitz play are good heists but you get nothing out of it, and thats why people prefer TLC - it's cool, fun, full of style, and at the end you get paid. You sit back and go "aah."

After the merryweather heist, Trevor wasn't the only one smacking his head against the wall.

And i strongly suspect it was deliberate on R*s part to limit the amount of money we get before "the big one"

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#85

Posted 02 March 2014 - 10:05 AM Edited by MacCar11, 02 March 2014 - 10:10 AM.

I seriously want what some of you guys are smoking. I'm also wondering why no ones gone full nostalgia and claimed The Job or Caligulas is better than anything in IV or V.

Everyone's entitled to their opinion (it's the classic line used by those with sh*tty opinions) ...but some opinions are bad and should be labeled as such. I seriously think we've hit a high point here boys.

tumblr_n18074cwbR1shojmzo1_500.gif

Hell Yeah. Imo Three leafs seems to be one of the few memorable missions from GTIV.Bitching and moaning bout too few missions,well id rather have slightly fewer but fascinating mission scripting then boring sh*t missions like IV had(abit).
The mission where michael chases he´s beloved original OLDSCHOOL Movie reel and get to see the bitch blown through the jet Engine was reel gold.Woho for micheal he put the finally touches in to get a legit job as Movie producer ! Tho im down with what cube said the mo$t .

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#86

Posted 06 March 2014 - 09:12 PM

 

 

I seriously want what some of you guys are smoking. I'm also wondering why no ones gone full nostalgia and claimed The Job or Caligulas is better than anything in IV or V.

Everyone's entitled to their opinion (it's the classic line used by those with sh*tty opinions) ...but some opinions are bad and should be labeled as such. I seriously think we've hit a high point here boys.

tumblr_n18074cwbR1shojmzo1_500.gif

 

Hell Yeah. Imo Three leafs seems to be one of the few memorable missions from GTIV.Bitching and moaning bout too few missions,well id rather have slightly fewer but fascinating mission scripting then boring sh*t missions like IV had(abit).
The mission where michael chases he´s beloved original OLDSCHOOL Movie reel and get to see the bitch blown through the jet Engine was reel gold.Woho for micheal he put the finally touches in to get a legit job as Movie producer ! Tho im down with what cube said the mo$t .

 

 

Yo, so you know how we do it?


B Dawg
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    Looks like the diversion worked!

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#87

Posted 06 March 2014 - 10:21 PM

I seriously want what some of you guys are smoking. I'm also wondering why no ones gone full nostalgia and claimed The Job or Caligulas is better than anything in IV or V.

It's been a long time since I played those SA mission. Is The Job Catalina's mission? Caligulas was really good. How could we forget about SA? It had everything!


lol232
  • lol232

    We stealin' all da gold!

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#88

Posted 07 March 2014 - 12:25 AM Edited by lol232, 07 March 2014 - 12:25 AM.

I'd say Three Leaf Clover was better than all of GTA V's heists except for the first heist in the jewelry store. They were both on the same level.

First time I agree with you, I also liked the obvious approach of the Big Score, especially when Packie is the 2nd gunman.

peluche503
  • peluche503

    The GSF OG

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#89

Posted 07 March 2014 - 12:29 AM

 

First time I agree with you, I also liked the obvious approach of the Big Score, especially when Packie is the 2nd gunman.I think the bi

 

 

The Big Score obvious I think is slightly better because it manage to correct some mistakes made in Three Leaf Clover.


lol232
  • lol232

    We stealin' all da gold!

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#90

Posted 07 March 2014 - 12:30 AM

First time I agree with you, I also liked the obvious approach of the Big Score, especially when Packie is the 2nd gunman.I think the bi

 
The Big Score obvious I think is slightly better because it manage to correct some mistakes made in Three Leaf Clover.

What were those mistakes, though?




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