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Are mapping conventions Euro-centric? Should that change?

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Melchior
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#61

Posted 18 February 2014 - 01:43 AM

Edit - the "interesting" argument: Sure. It's interesting. There are many other interesting ways of looking at the world. Why you insist on painting it all with this heavy handed bullsh*t about western chauvinism is beyond me, however, because not only does it obscure any real discussion about why maps look the way they do, but there's not much to discuss beyond your own misguided assumptions.

 

Because it's my intellectual forte. I could have made a thread about quantum physics- which while certainly a more interesting subject- wouldn't have been very good. Granted?

 

So tell, why do we use the Mercator as our go-to map of the world? Why do we refuse to replace it despite peoples' push for area accurate maps? It's not a formal conspiracy, but it is people being silly and childishly liking the idea of their country being big and on top.


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#62

Posted 18 February 2014 - 01:46 AM

This is a very interesting topic and something I often think about, makes it even more disgusting that some people think Africa is one country with one culture.

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Otter
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#63

Posted 18 February 2014 - 01:52 AM

And I'm telling you that there are many area accurate maps in use and Mercator is one of the best projections for navigation. I think you'll find that mercator maps are actually getting harder to find (at least in well funded schools) in favor of more accurate maps these days.

 

So, you tell me, if there's a conspiracy - or 'silly convention' - at work preventing us from using other maps, where's the proof?

 

As far as I can tell - and you'll have to forgive my obtuse nature once again - you're making an assload of stupid assumptions based on a half-understood conversation you read that tickled your "intellectual forte".


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#64

Posted 18 February 2014 - 01:56 AM Edited by Nale Dixon, 18 February 2014 - 02:04 AM.

 

 

 

Maybe you're right and I was overly aggressive here, but you've said that hanging such a map serves no economic or logistical purpose, so what exactly is the point of proposing this? To show that you know how the black man feels? Well there are much more productive ways to do that, instead of picking on a complete non issue which no government, private entity or otherwise powerful body cares about.

Because it's interesting. Bloody hell!

 

Well I guess so. Everything is interesting on some scale, but I don't go around proposing things because I find them interesting. To be honest though, this isn't that interesting. It just stinks of a sort of pointless white man compromise over something so trivial. sh*t, me and Otter aren't exactly die hard conservatives now are we? If even we see this as ridiculous then I dunno man, maybe you're barking up the wrong tree with this one

 

I thought I'd already explained about this? I  saw an interesting discussion about this, but it was either all done in broken English or it was poorly translated into English and I couldn't read it at all. Someone in the discussion said she was moving to the US with her son, and didn't like the idea that not only would he learn nothing but European history, but geography would reinforce the importance of Europe. It seemed interesting and like a fair point. It seemed to break out into a broader discussion about how we teach kids about other countries, but apparently there's too much testosterone here for us to be capable of a proper discussion.

 

The problem here is that you didn't simply make this as a nice discussion to wax our intellectual carrots. You were proposing a certain idea, which as it was repeatedly mocked, you denigrated into 'just an interesting discussion about maps' This has nothing to do with potentially teaching kids about other countries at all.

 

Anyway as for reinforcing the importance of Europe, well the fact is that the majority of the culture and technology of the world today comes from the big bad white man in Europe. Sorry about that. Maybe your history lessons weren't that good, but frankly I was taught to a pretty decent level about world history. Obviously it was biased to the west, but look; China won't be teaching its children about the English civil war or the battle of Waterloo.


I<3GTAV
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#65

Posted 18 February 2014 - 01:58 AM Edited by I<3GTAV, 18 February 2014 - 02:22 AM.

never mind


Melchior
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#66

Posted 18 February 2014 - 01:59 AM

And I'm telling you that there are many area accurate maps in use and Mercator is one of the best projections for navigation. I think you'll find that mercator maps are actually getting harder to find (at least in well funded schools) in favor of more accurate maps these days.

Tell me, how many of these are area accurate?

 

 

 

So, you tell me, if there's a conspiracy - or 'silly convention' - at work preventing us from using other maps, where's the proof?

What kind of proof would you like? A joint statement from every western country admitting it?

 

 

 

As far as I can tell - and you'll have to forgive my obtuse nature once again - you're making an assload of stupid assumptions based on a half-understood conversation you read that tickled your "intellectual forte".

You're coming off as very hostile, if I'm honest. Maybe you should chill the f*ck out?


Otter
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#67

Posted 18 February 2014 - 02:06 AM

Maybe you could stop creating flame-bait topics without providing anything more for discussion than your own wrong assumptions and rhetorical hopscotch?

 

Google image search results, really? Especially after just being told that the most effective map for navigation is the Mercator projection?

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Melchior
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#68

Posted 18 February 2014 - 02:07 AM

The problem here is that you didn't simply make this as a nice discussion to wax our intellectual carrots. You were proposing a certain idea, which as it was repeatedly mocked, you denigrated into 'just an interesting discussion about maps' This has nothing to do with potentially teaching kids about other countries at all.

 

I didn't say I didn't agree with it. I do agree with the idea. I'm just not rabidly supporting it so I'm perplexed as to why it's being rabidly opposed. I wanted to have a chat about it first and foremost, but I also agree with the sentiment in the OP. I'm not jaqing off but I didn't make the thread to spread the idea because I'm so passionate about it either. 

 

I'm pretty firmly convinced that this would have gone down better were I not on an all-male forum full of people with something to prove. Innocuous topics (although this admittedly at least somewhat contentious) tend to get extremely hostile responses all the freaking time, here.


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#69

Posted 18 February 2014 - 02:09 AM

tumblr_mzm13p0AJu1sedhy1o1_500.jpg

This way it's just more apparent that Africa is Europe's massive cock, which accurately reflects European attitudes of colonialism back in the day. To me, Africa and South America pointing up like that looks significantly more phallic than the current "Euro-centric" map.
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Melchior
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#70

Posted 18 February 2014 - 02:12 AM Edited by Melchior, 18 February 2014 - 02:13 AM.

Maybe you could stop creating flame-bait topics without providing anything more for discussion than your own wrong assumptions and rhetorical hopscotch?

Look, I have a set of beliefs, I have an agenda; have I ever made any attempt to hide that fact? Everything I say is going to be filtered through that. My posts are either going to be at least vaguely contentious or just plain boring. If that offends you darling, that's fine with me.


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#71

Posted 18 February 2014 - 02:12 AM Edited by Nale Dixon, 18 February 2014 - 02:15 AM.

 

The problem here is that you didn't simply make this as a nice discussion to wax our intellectual carrots. You were proposing a certain idea, which as it was repeatedly mocked, you denigrated into 'just an interesting discussion about maps' This has nothing to do with potentially teaching kids about other countries at all.

 

I didn't say I didn't agree with it. I do agree with the idea. I'm just not rabidly supporting it so I'm perplexed as to why it's being rabidly opposed. I wanted to have a chat about it first and foremost, but I also agree with the sentiment in the OP. I'm not jaqing off but I didn't make the thread to spread the idea because I'm so passionate about it either. 

 

I'm pretty firmly convinced that this would have gone down better were I not on an all-male forum full of people with something to prove. Innocuous topics (although this admittedly at least somewhat contentious) tend to get extremely hostile responses all the freaking time, here.

 

I'm not sure I understand your reason for pushing this as a masculine dominated issue. I understand that you're trying to push the 'white man phallic symbol penis envy' thing, but this really doesn't apply. Some people are rabidly opposed to this because they're gung ho America the west is great. I am 'rabidly opposed' to this because I think it's empty bullsh*t that serves no purpose, even in a discussion setting because there's nothing really to discuss. It's so low on the issues pole that it's really not worth anything.

 

Also I have no life. That's neither here nor there though.

 

Look, I have a set of beliefs, I have an agenda; have I ever made any attempt to hide that fact? Everything I say is going to be filtered through that. My posts are either going to be at least vaguely contentious or just plain boring. If that offends you darling, that's fine with me.

 

Hold on, you were just claiming that you only brought it up because it was interesting?

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theadmiral
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#72

Posted 18 February 2014 - 02:14 AM

 

Maybe you could stop creating flame-bait topics without providing anything more for discussion than your own wrong assumptions and rhetorical hopscotch?

Look, I have a set of beliefs, I have an agenda; have I ever made any attempt to hide that fact? Everything I say is going to be filtered through that. My posts are either going to be at least vaguely contentious or just plain boring. If that offends you darling, that's fine with me.

 

 

You are right, Otter is a darling.

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Otter
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#73

Posted 18 February 2014 - 02:16 AM


 

I'm pretty firmly convinced that this would have gone down better were I not on an all-male forum full of people with something to prove. Innocuous topics (although this admittedly at least somewhat contentious) tend to get extremely hostile responses all the freaking time, here.

 

 

Your entire first post, even the stuff you've shied away from as "just jokes" was utter bullsh*t. Perhaps if you want to get away without having your bullsh*t questioned, you'd be better off writing in a diary.

 

Forgive me for... 'coming off as hostile' again, but you've repeatedly argued that the only reason you're facing such a backlash here is because we're testosterone fueled idiots who plainly aren't equipped for your level of intercourse. You know, ignoring the fact that the first person who called you out in the thread was a woman.

 

It's not our fault that you're wrong. :p I'm sorry you feel bullied when asked to back up your bias, but them's the breaks.

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IDredMan
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#74

Posted 18 February 2014 - 02:20 AM

I have no earthly idea what it is I just witnessed or what the hell this place even is!


Melchior
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#75

Posted 18 February 2014 - 02:20 AM

Hold on, you were just claiming that you only brought it up because it was interesting?

 

 

Perhaps re-read the post you are quoting?


Raavi
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#76

Posted 18 February 2014 - 02:22 AM

This thread in a nutshell:

 

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Mr. House
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#77

Posted 18 February 2014 - 02:22 AM

 

Hold on, you were just claiming that you only brought it up because it was interesting?

 

Perhaps re-read the post you are quoting?

 

Uh right, I can read. The problem is that prior to this you claimed it was just an interesting subject, rather than said vested interest.


Melchior
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#78

Posted 18 February 2014 - 02:35 AM Edited by Melchior, 18 February 2014 - 02:33 AM.

Your entire first post, even the stuff you've shied away from as "just jokes" was utter bullsh*t.

I don't think that's been demonstrated.

 

 

 

Forgive me for... 'coming off as hostile' again, but you've repeatedly argued that the only reason you're facing such a backlash here is because we're testosterone fueled idiots who plainly aren't equipped for your level of intercourse.

Nobody said you were an idiot, chill out. But you certainly are overly hostile. There is a real, observable culture of getting riled up about innocuous things on this forum, that doesn't exist elsewhere... it reminds me of the all boys high school I went to. And forgive me for no appreciating your smart-arse one liner that totally misrepresented my intentions and concerns and subsequent off the mark, condescending lecturing. It's possible to disagree with someone without being a knob about it.

 

 

 

It's not our fault that you're wrong.  :p I'm sorry you feel bullied when asked to back up your bias, but them's the breaks.

Oh, it's not the questioning that's bothering me; Raavi and sivis disagreed with me and that didn't bother me at all. What bothers me is your style of response: this flipping back and fourth between an inappropriately lecturing, older brother figure and a detached, too cool for school smart arse. Would you kindly save it for the V forum?


 

 

Hold on, you were just claiming that you only brought it up because it was interesting?

 

Perhaps re-read the post you are quoting?

 

Uh right, I can read. The problem is that prior to this you claimed it was just an interesting subject, rather than said vested interest.

 

 I wanted to have a chat about it first and foremost, but I also agree with the sentiment in the OP. I'm not jaqing off but I didn't make the thread to spread the idea because I'm so passionate about it either. 

 


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#79

Posted 18 February 2014 - 02:39 AM

This thread in a nutshell:

 

tumblr_mdzw2gCvCg1ri5gz2o1_500.gif

 

Mind = Blown

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Otter
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#80

Posted 18 February 2014 - 02:45 AM

Oh boy, now we're back to playing the persecuted intellectual? How very sophomoric. I'm so very sorry I've offended your delicate constitution, darling. This is GTAF, not Chicken Soup for the Misguided Post Neo Liberal Soul dot com. Nothing's changed of late.

 

I'll demonstrate the bullsh*t in your initial post when you get around to demonstrating how this "silly convention" is being defended or actively protected by anyone worth a damn. Maybe that'd be worth discussing but I think if you had anything other than a half-understood anecdotal source in a foreign language you'd have probably brought it up by now.

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IDredMan
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#81

Posted 18 February 2014 - 03:02 AM

So lemme just break this thread down, because I don't seem to understand.

You want to change the maps, inaccurately displaying the countries' sizes, proportions and positions... Because white men are testosterone driven cave men with small dicks?

 

 

 

I honestly have no idea what this is, but I advise everyone in this thread to get a therapist. I know I'v seen one before, grows on you... Gets less embarrassing.


Melchior
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#82

Posted 18 February 2014 - 03:02 AM Edited by Melchior, 18 February 2014 - 03:06 AM.

Oh boy, now we're back to playing the persecuted intellectual? How very sophomoric. I'm so very sorry I've offended your delicate constitution, darling. This is GTAF, not Chicken Soup for the Misguided Post Neo Liberal Soul dot com. Nothing's changed of late.

I don't have a persecution complex. I just take exception to your attitude. Is this really so hard to stomach? Right, this is GTAF... I don't know what about that fact suggests you can be a dick to other contributors and not get called on it. I've never had this problem with other posters really, you're the numerator here.

 

 

 

I'll demonstrate the bullsh*t in your initial post when you get around to demonstrating how this "silly convention" is being defended or actively protected by anyone worth a damn. Maybe that'd be worth discussing but I think if you had anything other than a half-understood anecdotal source in a foreign language you'd have probably brought it up by now.

Nobody has come out and admitted they hate black people and thus like the Mercator map. The fact that it it's our go-to map of the world despite geographers' insistence that it's useless as a wall map should speak volumes, however.

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Otter
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#83

Posted 18 February 2014 - 03:11 AM

I'll just wait for Rown to finally post some of the mapping arguments he's been loathe to contribute so there's actually something to discuss here beyond your problems with me. In the meanwhile I'm going to change the ridiculous thread title.


IDredMan
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#84

Posted 18 February 2014 - 03:22 AM

I still think the title should at least mention a penis on *some* level. We can't have no penis in the title.

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Mr. House
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#85

Posted 18 February 2014 - 03:33 AM

I still think the title should at least mention a penis on *some* level. We can't have no penis in the title.

I suggest:

 

Are mapping conventions Euro-phallic? Should that change? Cock.

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gtamann123
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#86

Posted 18 February 2014 - 04:03 AM

Flipping the map to have south at the top os just counter intuitive. Almost everyone already thinks of north as "up" and south as "down" ex: "I am going up north to the cabin this weekend" or "I am going to move somewhere down south to get away from this f*cking snow"

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#87

Posted 18 February 2014 - 07:50 AM Edited by Harley, 18 February 2014 - 07:51 AM.

We already have a thread for this. Please use the search function next time.

http://www.gtaforums...nly-girl-topic/
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#88

Posted 18 February 2014 - 08:05 AM


 


Question: why is Europe in the center of the map when the US is the greatest country on Earth. 

 
Because the cartographer who made the Mercator projection, Gerardus Mercator was Flemish (Belgian). 
 
The US didn't get to be the best country ever by listening to the Belgians. Why hasn't this been fixed yet? 

the best? You wear 2 tons of armour to play "football". Change the spelling of words to help with spelling
here is the US version of the world map

world-map.gif

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#89

Posted 18 February 2014 - 08:24 AM Edited by El_Diablo, 18 February 2014 - 08:38 AM.

people with something to prove.

 

holy sh*t do you hear yourself?

ironic post of the year and it's only February.

 

I mean honestly, Stephan90 answered your question in reply number 1 but you've basically ignored it.

Sivis then provided you with the brief logic behind the science of modern mapmaking; based on ancient, unified European explorations that used magnetic North bearings and the North Star (among others) for orientation. but you've basically ignored that too.

 

you go on to passive-aggressively imply conspiracy without feeling the need to provide an ounce of support.

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Frank Brown
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#90

Posted 18 February 2014 - 08:55 AM

If changing the map served an actual purpose and there was an actual argument for it, I'd be on board. But to change it just so you can feel a bit better by "saving" those "oppressed" Asians, Africans, and South Americans is just stupid.




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