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Anders Breivik wants to play "better video games" in prison...

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Kristian.
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#61

Posted 19 February 2014 - 07:08 PM

I don't feel that prison should be punishment, it should be to rehabilitate and separate from society, so I agree with him to a point.

Should we really make prisons entertaining though?

 

 

 

I know a great game for him, it's called hangman.

Let's give it some thrill, better a russian rulette.
That then brings the question, can psychopaths really be blamed for their actions?

And do They deserve to die?

Nobody can be blamed for their actions in any realistic sense, but this is a different topic altogether. Retribution only makes sense to people who assume that we are responsible for our actions.

 

I think they should lock the worst prisoners in rooms like this with no light.

main-qimg-1da764ff0b1524043eba95994033ac


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#62

Posted 19 February 2014 - 07:12 PM

Send him to an American prison. He can play with Bubba's joystick then.


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#63

Posted 19 February 2014 - 08:44 PM

 

 

 

 

 

 

I know a great game for him, it's called hangman.

Let's give it some thrill, better a russian rulette.
That then brings the question, can psychopaths really be blamed for their actions?
And do They deserve to die?
This guy does.

But he's obviously got a mental illness, can he really be held accountable? This isn't a simple yes, no answer.

 

 

You are forgetting that he murdered 77 people and injured over 300 people. If your sister had been shot and killed, I doubt you would be in favor of him receiving more treats. Sick or not.. he killed those people and has devastated families. The fact that he is seen as more insane than the other prisoners and is allowed to play video games, and received an extremely light 21 years in prison.. why should he receive more benefits?

 

As long as you use black text myself, and most other people on the forum will continue ignoring your posts, I don't understand why you do not change it when obviously it is not beneficial to you, I'm only replying to this because I can read it after quoting it.

The reason he only has 21 years in prison is because the point of prison is not to punish in Norway, because that achieves nothing, if one person dies, why then stuff the other person up as well? That's not helping anybody, it's unproductive. Punishment is not necessarily effective on its own either, yes it is important and an integral part of the rehabilitation system but You can have a guy in prison for 60 years, spending tax payer money on him and what not, then release him and he still goes and commits the same f*cking crime. OR you could have a 10-20 year sentence where the guy is actually rehabilitated and can become a normal part of society because they obviously have some sort of issue in their mind that needs resolving. Norway has the lowest reoffending rates in the world, clearly something is working.

 

I think they should lock the worst prisoners in rooms like this with no light.

main-qimg-1da764ff0b1524043eba95994033ac

This picture always annoys me, what is -9 decibels without a reference point?

 

 

I'm not necessarily bothered if you ignore me because I color the text in black. A little pathetic, is it not? If you cannot read the text in black, then you should change the brightness of your laptop. As for me, I can see any color perfectly on these forums.

 

I disagree. I believe in punishment. People that have absolutely not committed a sin or done anything wrong, and their lives are cut short because of Anders. Well, you must be forgetting those people. From my recollection - Video games are rewards and treats. As I've said before, the government will eventually buy into him and allow him to play violent video games. He is basically blackmailing the government. I don't see this helping him and his state of mind. 

 

We're not speaking about other criminals and Norway. We're discussing about a maniac that has caused a tragedy and ended lives. You are practically sticking up for him and in favor of him being released and receiving not much of a punishment. People like Anders should receive a huge amount of punishment. I doubt he'll lose his insane ways. I doubt he is even insane. He is still capable but acts dumb and crazy when the world peaks in and see him on TV. I bet when the government allow him a chance to be released back into society, he'll suddenly lose his insane state of mind.


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#64

Posted 19 February 2014 - 11:07 PM

 

I'm not necessarily bothered if you ignore me because I color the text in black. A little pathetic, is it not? If you cannot read the text in black, then you should change the brightness of your laptop. As for me, I can see any color perfectly on these forums.

 

 

I disagree. I believe in punishment. People that have absolutely not committed a sin or done anything wrong, and their lives are cut short because of Anders. Well, you must be forgetting those people. From my recollection - Video games are rewards and treats. As I've said before, the government will eventually buy into him and allow him to play violent video games. He is basically blackmailing the government. I don't see this helping him and his state of mind. 

 

 

But what is the point of punishment? It's revenge, you're basically saying that Anders need to be punished for revenge, an eye for an eye right, maybe they should just start killing Anders family right?.
Punishment is to remove people from society and so they learn, and also as a deterrent, that by itself doesn't seem to work however, and what's the difference between 21 years vs 60 years, 60 years is going to deter someone anymore than 21 years, and it probably won't help them learn at all, rehabilitation is key, and if giving someone something they enjoy in prison in the right amounts is part of that, then i'm all for it. 

Also are you saying violent video-games make you violent? 

 

 

 

We're not speaking about other criminals and Norway. We're discussing about a maniac that has caused a tragedy and ended lives. You are practically sticking up for him and in favor of him being released and receiving not much of a punishment. People like Anders should receive a huge amount of punishment. I doubt he'll lose his insane ways. I doubt he is even insane. He is still capable but acts dumb and crazy when the world peaks in and see him on TV. I bet when the government allow him a chance to be released back into society, he'll suddenly lose his insane state of mind.

And that's it exactly there, he is an insane maniac who needs help. No normal person would go and kill boatloads of people, he is clearly, mentally ill and is only going to get worse without help, you are saying that because he is crazy, he needs more punishment, well that's not fair, you're treating mental illness like it's deliberate, do you believe people want to be crazy? Do you think they have that choice? No, he needs rehabilitation, and it does work a lot of the time, Norway's low reoffending rates would be a good example, and all the success stories from mental hospitals.

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gtamann123
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#65

Posted 19 February 2014 - 11:17 PM


 

I'm not necessarily bothered if you ignore me because I color the text in black. A little pathetic, is it not? If you cannot read the text in black, then you should change the brightness of your laptop. As for me, I can see any color perfectly on these forums.
 
 
I disagree. I believe in punishment. People that have absolutely not committed a sin or done anything wrong, and their lives are cut short because of Anders. Well, you must be forgetting those people. From my recollection - Video games are rewards and treats. As I've said before, the government will eventually buy into him and allow him to play violent video games. He is basically blackmailing the government. I don't see this helping him and his state of mind. 
 
 

But what is the point of punishment? It's revenge, you're basically saying that Anders need to be punished for revenge, an eye for an eye right, maybe they should just start killing Anders family right?.
Punishment is to remove people from society and so they learn, and also as a deterrent, that by itself doesn't seem to work however, and what's the difference between 21 years vs 60 years, 60 years is going to deter someone anymore than 21 years, and it probably won't help them learn at all, rehabilitation is key, and if giving someone something they enjoy in prison in the right amounts is part of that, then i'm all for it. 

Also are you saying violent video-games make you violent? 

 

 
 We're not speaking about other criminals and Norway. We're discussing about a maniac that has caused a tragedy and ended lives. You are practically sticking up for him and in favor of him being released and receiving not much of a punishment. People like Anders should receive a huge amount of punishment. I doubt he'll lose his insane ways. I doubt he is even insane. He is still capable but acts dumb and crazy when the world peaks in and see him on TV. I bet when the government allow him a chance to be released back into society, he'll suddenly lose his insane state of mind.

And that's it exactly there, he is an insane maniac who needs help. No normal person would go and kill boatloads of people, he is clearly, mentally ill and is only going to get worse without help, you are saying that because he is crazy, he needs more punishment, well that's not fair, you're treating mental illness like it's deliberate, do you believe people want to be crazy? Do you think they have that choice? No, he needs rehabilitation, and it does work a lot of the time, Norway's low reoffending rates would be a good example, and all the success stories from mental hospitals.

Why dont we just remove him from society so he cant hurt any more people. Why should the sane members of society have to bare the burden of rehabilitating the criminally insane?
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Finn 7 five 11
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#66

Posted 20 February 2014 - 12:44 AM


 

I'm not necessarily bothered if you ignore me because I color the text in black. A little pathetic, is it not? If you cannot read the text in black, then you should change the brightness of your laptop. As for me, I can see any color perfectly on these forums.
 
 
I disagree. I believe in punishment. People that have absolutely not committed a sin or done anything wrong, and their lives are cut short because of Anders. Well, you must be forgetting those people. From my recollection - Video games are rewards and treats. As I've said before, the government will eventually buy into him and allow him to play violent video games. He is basically blackmailing the government. I don't see this helping him and his state of mind. 
 
 

But what is the point of punishment? It's revenge, you're basically saying that Anders need to be punished for revenge, an eye for an eye right, maybe they should just start killing Anders family right?.
Punishment is to remove people from society and so they learn, and also as a deterrent, that by itself doesn't seem to work however, and what's the difference between 21 years vs 60 years, 60 years is going to deter someone anymore than 21 years, and it probably won't help them learn at all, rehabilitation is key, and if giving someone something they enjoy in prison in the right amounts is part of that, then i'm all for it. 

Also are you saying violent video-games make you violent? 

 

 
 We're not speaking about other criminals and Norway. We're discussing about a maniac that has caused a tragedy and ended lives. You are practically sticking up for him and in favor of him being released and receiving not much of a punishment. People like Anders should receive a huge amount of punishment. I doubt he'll lose his insane ways. I doubt he is even insane. He is still capable but acts dumb and crazy when the world peaks in and see him on TV. I bet when the government allow him a chance to be released back into society, he'll suddenly lose his insane state of mind.

And that's it exactly there, he is an insane maniac who needs help. No normal person would go and kill boatloads of people, he is clearly, mentally ill and is only going to get worse without help, you are saying that because he is crazy, he needs more punishment, well that's not fair, you're treating mental illness like it's deliberate, do you believe people want to be crazy? Do you think they have that choice? No, he needs rehabilitation, and it does work a lot of the time, Norway's low reoffending rates would be a good example, and all the success stories from mental hospitals.
Why dont we just remove him from society so he cant hurt any more people. Why should the sane members of society have to bare the burden of rehabilitating the criminally insane?

Why should we pay for disability care, or old people care, why should we have any kind of facilities for mental illness?

Besides, rehabilitating someone for 15 -20 years probably works out similarly to keeping them locked up for 60.

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#67

Posted 20 February 2014 - 12:52 AM

 


Why should we pay for disability care, or old people care, why should we have any kind of facilities for mental illness?

Besides, rehabilitating someone for 15 -20 years probably works out similarly to keeping them locked up for 60.

 

 

I don't think you can compare a murderer who kills 77 people to someone born with a mental disability or someone who's reached the age where they can no longer take care of themselves. The first one is someone who was born into it and had no choice, and the second has no choice, but they've contributed to society most likely. 

 

Rehabilitation is all well and good for the crime-of-passion-killer, but not for someone who methodically and admittedly killed 77 innocent human beings. A line needs to be drawn somewhere. Do you honestly think rehabilitating Breivik will do society any good? Would you live beside him, work in his vicinity, etc. after he was rehabilitated and released?

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#68

Posted 20 February 2014 - 01:49 AM Edited by gtamann123, 20 February 2014 - 01:53 AM.


 

I'm not necessarily bothered if you ignore me because I color the text in black. A little pathetic, is it not? If you cannot read the text in black, then you should change the brightness of your laptop. As for me, I can see any color perfectly on these forums.
 
 
I disagree. I believe in punishment. People that have absolutely not committed a sin or done anything wrong, and their lives are cut short because of Anders. Well, you must be forgetting those people. From my recollection - Video games are rewards and treats. As I've said before, the government will eventually buy into him and allow him to play violent video games. He is basically blackmailing the government. I don't see this helping him and his state of mind. 
 
 

But what is the point of punishment? It's revenge, you're basically saying that Anders need to be punished for revenge, an eye for an eye right, maybe they should just start killing Anders family right?.
Punishment is to remove people from society and so they learn, and also as a deterrent, that by itself doesn't seem to work however, and what's the difference between 21 years vs 60 years, 60 years is going to deter someone anymore than 21 years, and it probably won't help them learn at all, rehabilitation is key, and if giving someone something they enjoy in prison in the right amounts is part of that, then i'm all for it. 

Also are you saying violent video-games make you violent? 

 

 
 We're not speaking about other criminals and Norway. We're discussing about a maniac that has caused a tragedy and ended lives. You are practically sticking up for him and in favor of him being released and receiving not much of a punishment. People like Anders should receive a huge amount of punishment. I doubt he'll lose his insane ways. I doubt he is even insane. He is still capable but acts dumb and crazy when the world peaks in and see him on TV. I bet when the government allow him a chance to be released back into society, he'll suddenly lose his insane state of mind.

And that's it exactly there, he is an insane maniac who needs help. No normal person would go and kill boatloads of people, he is clearly, mentally ill and is only going to get worse without help, you are saying that because he is crazy, he needs more punishment, well that's not fair, you're treating mental illness like it's deliberate, do you believe people want to be crazy? Do you think they have that choice? No, he needs rehabilitation, and it does work a lot of the time, Norway's low reoffending rates would be a good example, and all the success stories from mental hospitals.
Why dont we just remove him from society so he cant hurt any more people. Why should the sane members of society have to bare the burden of rehabilitating the criminally insane?
Why should we pay for disability care, or old people care, why should we have any kind of facilities for mental illness?

Besides, rehabilitating someone for 15 -20 years probably works out similarly to keeping them locked up for 60.
Im not talking about keep in him Locked up for 60 years im talking about giving people like him the business end of a shotgun. A single slug is a hell of a lot cheaper than keeping someone alive in prison and "rehabilitating" them. And we have disability care is because usually someone with a disability can still benefit society and usually havent done anything wrong. the thing that separate people like him from your average disabled person is that he killed 77 innocent people in cold blood. And we care for old people is because the majority of them earned it by being law abiding and productive citizens during their lives. My uncle is a crazy schizophrenic who wander the streets all day mumbling to himself and claims to have 4 medals of honor. And even he hasn't killed anyone. People like Breivik are certainly on another level.

I guess I have just lost all my patience with the mentally ill after all he has put our family through. And how much of a burden he has been on society. He gets mot money a month in disability checks to do absolutely nothing than most people who work minimum wage jobs.

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#69

Posted 20 February 2014 - 01:58 AM

Wholly f*ck, that would piss me off if my tax dollars were going towards a mass murderers video games... Now that I think of it they probably are! A lot of decent people in the world couldn't afford a video game for their life and this guy kills a bunch of people (regardless of if he was mentally stable) and gets to complain about not liking his selection!?

This world is becoming bass ackwards.

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#70

Posted 20 February 2014 - 02:01 AM

Wholly f*ck, that would piss me off if my tax dollars were going towards a mass murderers video games... Now that I think of it they probably are! A lot of decent people in the world couldn't afford a video game for their life and this guy kills a bunch of people (regardless of if he was mentally stable) and gets to complain about not liking his selection!?

This world is becoming bass ackwards.


Exactly. This f*ck murders almost 100 people and gets to play free video games and eat free food and live rent free. When also of decent people struggle to get by.

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#71

Posted 20 February 2014 - 07:19 AM

Lol the cross Atlantic views expressed in this thread are great

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#72

Posted 20 February 2014 - 07:21 AM Edited by BuyMeTheMoon, 20 February 2014 - 07:25 AM.

Why should we pay for disability care, or old people care, why should we have any kind of facilities for mental illness?


Besides, rehabilitating someone for 15 -20 years probably works out similarly to keeping them locked up for 60.

I don't care at all what is best for him or what is cheapest. He should be locked up for the rest of his life, without any form of treatment. He isn't sick, he is brainwashed. Haven't you seen his movies that he made beforehand? He shows no regret of what he has done at all either. He is ice cold. If not to punish him, he should be kept in prison for the rest of his life just so that people in Norway can feel safe.


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#73

Posted 20 February 2014 - 07:29 AM

That's the most bloodthirsty thing I have ever heard a Norwegian say.


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#74

Posted 20 February 2014 - 07:37 AM Edited by gtamann123, 20 February 2014 - 07:40 AM.

That's the most bloodthirsty thing I have ever heard a Norwegian say.

What he did is inexcusable. Mentally ill or not. I can't believe that some people here actually feel sorry for him and feel he should be treated like a human being. Do you think he was treating his victims humanely as he was slaughtering them in cold blood?

It has nothing to do with bloodthirst its about treating a pathetic lunatic how he deserves to be treated.
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#75

Posted 20 February 2014 - 07:48 AM Edited by BuyMeTheMoon, 20 February 2014 - 07:50 AM.

That's the most bloodthirsty thing I have ever heard a Norwegian say.

Bloodthirst? Where do you get that from? People have lost their family, and their kids.. He blew up one building, dressed up as a police officer, went maniac and slaughtered 77 people with a machine gun. He haven't ever said he regret any of this.

 

How am I bloodthirsty when I say I don't think he should ever be out in the society? 

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#76

Posted 20 February 2014 - 07:56 AM

 

That's the most bloodthirsty thing I have ever heard a Norwegian say.

Bloodthirst? Where do you get that from? People have lost their family, and their kids.. He blew up one building, dressed up as a police officer, went maniac and slaughtered 77 people with a machine gun. He haven't ever said he regret any of this.

 

How am I bloodthirsty when I say I don't think he should ever be out in the society? 

 

It doesn't jive with Norwegian stereotype. Isn't Norway basically a real life version of the Kingdom of Caring?


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#77

Posted 20 February 2014 - 07:57 AM Edited by BuyMeTheMoon, 20 February 2014 - 07:57 AM.

I guess I'm special


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#78

Posted 20 February 2014 - 08:07 AM Edited by WinterEdit, 20 February 2014 - 08:09 AM.

 

 

That's the most bloodthirsty thing I have ever heard a Norwegian say.

Bloodthirst? Where do you get that from? People have lost their family, and their kids.. He blew up one building, dressed up as a police officer, went maniac and slaughtered 77 people with a machine gun. He haven't ever said he regret any of this.

 

How am I bloodthirsty when I say I don't think he should ever be out in the society? 

 

It doesn't jive with Norwegian stereotype. Isn't Norway basically a real life version of the Kingdom of Caring?

 

Seems like all of North-European/Scandinavian countries are 'too caring'... people that commit crimes like this get everything all jolly and fine for them. That's what the governments do at least. For example, I'm pretty sure USA would've given a death penalty for Mr. Breivik here. Or the states it's allowed in.

 

Things like that have happened in Finland (not as bad though) yet they usually get a maximum of 10 years in prison. Usually less. Someone got 7 years-ish or so for one murder just recently here, I think. A life sentence is a maximum of 21 years or so, which is the max sentence you can have here if I am correct... I guess if death penalty was still active here for crimes like killing, such crimes would not happen that often at least.

 

And if you do something less severe than murder, even if only a little? You'll get probation. Usually. The penalties differ sometimes.


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#79

Posted 20 February 2014 - 09:27 AM

7-8 years for murder? sh*t.. Sounds like Norway, haha


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#80

Posted 20 February 2014 - 10:16 AM

What some people don't seem to understand is that, like it or not, there are human rights, equally applied to a kid who hasn't even killed a fly than for a mass murderer and war criminal.

I have my reservations about if he can be rehabilited and ever released but you definitely can't skin him or any other killer alive in the main square as revenge, like some people would like to do...

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#81

Posted 20 February 2014 - 11:26 AM

What some people don't seem to understand is that, like it or not, there are human rights, equally applied to a kid who hasn't even killed a fly than for a mass murderer and war criminal.

I have my reservations about if he can be rehabilited and ever released but you definitely can't skin him or any other killer alive in the main square as revenge, like some people would like to do...

 

No one's suggesting skinning. But I don't see how you can call putting someone in a cell, allowing them to play video games, feeding them well, providing them housing, and giving them an all around 'cushy' lifestyle justice. It's not.


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#82

Posted 20 February 2014 - 11:47 AM

The problem with the "too lenient" argument is that, in empirical terms, it isn't actually true. You can say what you like about this but there's little disagreeing with the facts. The Scandinavian justice system produces amongst the highest rehabilitation rates and lowest re-offending rates in the world. Any resistance to it as a general policy is purely emotional and subjective and I'm sorry but anyone who puts their personal emotional hang-ups on a subject above what's actually better for wider society is a bit silly in my view.
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#83

Posted 20 February 2014 - 11:51 AM

The problem with the "too lenient" argument is that, in empirical terms, it isn't actually true. You can say what you like about this but there's little disagreeing with the facts. The Scandinavian justice system produces amongst the highest rehabilitation rates and lowest re-offending rates in the world. Any resistance to it as a general policy is purely emotional and subjective and I'm sorry but anyone who puts their personal emotional hang-ups on a subject above what's actually better for wider society is a bit silly in my view.

 

I don't have a problem with rehabilitation as a general idea, but do you personally think that Breivik can be rehabilitated? And would you feel comfortable living next to the man who methodically killed 77 innocent people? Rehabilitation could be fine for the wife that kills her cheating husband in the heat of the moment, but not for a fanatic terrorist who buys all of the bullsh*t he spews.


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#84

Posted 20 February 2014 - 11:58 AM

I don't have a personal opinion on it because I'm not qualified to judge the sanity, mental state or future actions of a man I've had no personal interaction with.

It's also worth pointing out that the sentence he received isn't actually a fixed terms- there's every chance he may never actually be paroled. So the two arguments aren't exactly incompatible.

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#85

Posted 20 February 2014 - 12:20 PM

 

The problem with the "too lenient" argument is that, in empirical terms, it isn't actually true. You can say what you like about this but there's little disagreeing with the facts. The Scandinavian justice system produces amongst the highest rehabilitation rates and lowest re-offending rates in the world. Any resistance to it as a general policy is purely emotional and subjective and I'm sorry but anyone who puts their personal emotional hang-ups on a subject above what's actually better for wider society is a bit silly in my view.

 

I don't have a problem with rehabilitation as a general idea, but do you personally think that Breivik can be rehabilitated? And would you feel comfortable living next to the man who methodically killed 77 innocent people? Rehabilitation could be fine for the wife that kills her cheating husband in the heat of the moment, but not for a fanatic terrorist who buys all of the bullsh*t he spews.

 

 

Perhaps he can be, perhaps he can't, they might as well try, 21 years is a long time, you could change a man in that time I think. The more rehabilitation they do, the better they'll get at it, they'll figure out what works and what doesn't, hell, they might even make the guy normal again, have him deeply regret what he did like Morgan Freeman in the Shawshank Redemption, if he did that, and really meant it, I honestly would have no problem living next to the man, because he wouldn't be the same man that killed 77 people, he would be someone else.
There's been stories of people who've become friends with murderers who've killed their family members, forgive, forget and regret.

 

 

Im not talking about keep in him Locked up for 60 years im talking about giving people like him the business end of a shotgun. A single slug is a hell of a lot cheaper than keeping someone alive in prison and "rehabilitating" them. And we have disability care is because usually someone with a disability can still benefit society and usually havent done anything wrong. the thing that separate people like him from your average disabled person is that he killed 77 innocent people in cold blood. And we care for old people is because the majority of them earned it by being law abiding and productive citizens during their lives. My uncle is a crazy schizophrenic who wander the streets all day mumbling to himself and claims to have 4 medals of honor. And even he hasn't killed anyone. People like Breivik are certainly on another level.

 

I guess I have just lost all my patience with the mentally ill after all he has put our family through. And how much of a burden he has been on society. He gets mot money a month in disability checks to do absolutely nothing than most people who work minimum wage jobs.

 

Well the death penalty costs more than life in prison anyway, unfortunately shotguns to the face aren't legal.
Also he could be beneficial to society if he was rehabilitated, rather than a burden.a

Yes, My brother is a schizophrenic, he once kidnapped his dad and tied him up in the woods and beat him for 3 days with a golf club because he wouldn't help him with his car that day...yeah pretty f*cked up.

 


Frank Brown
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#86

Posted 20 February 2014 - 12:29 PM

 

 

The problem with the "too lenient" argument is that, in empirical terms, it isn't actually true. You can say what you like about this but there's little disagreeing with the facts. The Scandinavian justice system produces amongst the highest rehabilitation rates and lowest re-offending rates in the world. Any resistance to it as a general policy is purely emotional and subjective and I'm sorry but anyone who puts their personal emotional hang-ups on a subject above what's actually better for wider society is a bit silly in my view.

 

I don't have a problem with rehabilitation as a general idea, but do you personally think that Breivik can be rehabilitated? And would you feel comfortable living next to the man who methodically killed 77 innocent people? Rehabilitation could be fine for the wife that kills her cheating husband in the heat of the moment, but not for a fanatic terrorist who buys all of the bullsh*t he spews.

 

 

Perhaps he can be, perhaps he can't, they might as well try, 21 years is a long time, you could change a man in that time I think. The more rehabilitation they do, the better they'll get at it, they'll figure out what works and what doesn't, hell, they might even make the guy normal again, have him deeply regret what he did like Morgan Freeman in the Shawshank Redemption, if he did that, and really meant it, I honestly would have no problem living next to the man, because he wouldn't be the same man that killed 77 people, he would be someone else.
There's been stories of people who've become friends with murderers who've killed their family members, forgive, forget and regret.

 

This is a question for both you and Sivi (if anyone else wants to answer, go for it), but I'm quoting you because I like quote chains:

 

If the death penalty was a cheaper alternative to rehabilitation, would you rather rehabilitate someone who killed 77 people, or execute them? Why or why not? 

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BuyMeTheMoon
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#87

Posted 20 February 2014 - 12:30 PM

 

The problem with the "too lenient" argument is that, in empirical terms, it isn't actually true. You can say what you like about this but there's little disagreeing with the facts. The Scandinavian justice system produces amongst the highest rehabilitation rates and lowest re-offending rates in the world. Any resistance to it as a general policy is purely emotional and subjective and I'm sorry but anyone who puts their personal emotional hang-ups on a subject above what's actually better for wider society is a bit silly in my view.

 

I don't have a problem with rehabilitation as a general idea, but do you personally think that Breivik can be rehabilitated? And would you feel comfortable living next to the man who methodically killed 77 innocent people? Rehabilitation could be fine for the wife that kills her cheating husband in the heat of the moment, but not for a fanatic terrorist who buys all of the bullsh*t he spews.

 

He can't be rehabilitated when he is not even sick. This is what he lives for, and you guys would know that if you knew his story. He don't regret slaughtering those 77 people, he think it was a good start. He is not sick, but just a smart person who happens to be a stone cold killer, and who should never ever be out in the society, because you'll never know what he is capable of. He is so smart that I bet he can manipulate the psychiatrists into believing he is rehabilitated.

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Finn 7 five 11
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#88

Posted 20 February 2014 - 12:43 PM

 

 

 

The problem with the "too lenient" argument is that, in empirical terms, it isn't actually true. You can say what you like about this but there's little disagreeing with the facts. The Scandinavian justice system produces amongst the highest rehabilitation rates and lowest re-offending rates in the world. Any resistance to it as a general policy is purely emotional and subjective and I'm sorry but anyone who puts their personal emotional hang-ups on a subject above what's actually better for wider society is a bit silly in my view.

 

I don't have a problem with rehabilitation as a general idea, but do you personally think that Breivik can be rehabilitated? And would you feel comfortable living next to the man who methodically killed 77 innocent people? Rehabilitation could be fine for the wife that kills her cheating husband in the heat of the moment, but not for a fanatic terrorist who buys all of the bullsh*t he spews.

 

 

Perhaps he can be, perhaps he can't, they might as well try, 21 years is a long time, you could change a man in that time I think. The more rehabilitation they do, the better they'll get at it, they'll figure out what works and what doesn't, hell, they might even make the guy normal again, have him deeply regret what he did like Morgan Freeman in the Shawshank Redemption, if he did that, and really meant it, I honestly would have no problem living next to the man, because he wouldn't be the same man that killed 77 people, he would be someone else.
There's been stories of people who've become friends with murderers who've killed their family members, forgive, forget and regret.

 

This is a question for both you and Sivi (if anyone else wants to answer, go for it), but I'm quoting you because I like quote chains:

 

If the death penalty was a cheaper alternative to rehabilitation, would you rather rehabilitate someone who killed 77 people, or execute them? Why or why not? 

 

I pick rehabilitation. 
 If someone can be rehabilitated properly, ultimately they're going to be a different person by the end of it, and the person that they once were is effectively dead. 


sivispacem
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#89

Posted 20 February 2014 - 12:44 PM

Objectively he's really not that smart. He tried to create a climate of tension around his actions by implicating mass immigration in his actions but he critically misjudged the lack of public support for his ideology. His manifesto was incoherent bilge, mostly plagiarised and completely lacking in logic or reason. He's been presented as a Unabomber like intellectual figure but in reality he's a deluded bigot.

Vlynor- financial cost isn't of interest to me in discussions on justice. Rehabilitation is more expensive that forced labour but the latter doesn't work as a tool for reintegrating people back into society so as a tool of justice it's a bit sh*t. The death penalty is exactly the same- it could be free for all I care, that doesn't make it any less prone to abuse, final, subject to devastating results in miscarriages of justice or socially damaging.

Svip
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#90

Posted 20 February 2014 - 12:54 PM

He can't be rehabilitated when he is not even sick. This is what he lives for, and you guys would know that if you knew his story. He don't regret slaughtering those 77 people, he think it was a good start. He is not sick, but just a smart person who happens to be a stone cold killer, and who should never ever be out in the society, because you'll never know what he is capable of. He is so smart that I bet he can manipulate the psychiatrists into believing he is rehabilitated.

 

 

And he won't ever get out of prison, so there is no need to worry about that.

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