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Fellow racers, letīs take action.

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FasterThanYou
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#121

Posted 11 February 2014 - 10:52 PM

 

 
 

 

 

Well, I guess I'm stupid because I don't agree that this feature should be changed. A feature that is the same for everyone, gives everyone the same advantage, is highly predictable and a mechanic of a NON-RACING game to assist races that are highly unbalanced to begin with due to unbalanced car options. Sorry. 

 

 

No, you should read better. I said you are stupid because you made stupid assumptions (he complains, then he is bad with it).

 

If you want to race in a stupid environment, fair enough. Some people likes to race with missiles and other crap. It´s perfectly explained on the OP (which you probably even didn´t read) that I don´t mind an on/off option on race lobby so whoever wants to race that crap is still able. So you failed there too.


Vooodu
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#122

Posted 12 February 2014 - 02:03 PM

 

 

 

 

This is not whiner thread.     

 

 

 

 

 won´t stop me from complaining

 

Uh-huh......

 

 

Well, I guess I'm stupid because I don't agree that this feature should be changed. A feature that is the same for everyone, gives everyone the same advantage, is highly predictable and a mechanic of a NON-RACING game to assist races that are highly unbalanced to begin with due to unbalanced car options. Sorry. 

 

 

  When did GTA become a non racing game?  Racing has been an end game activity for me since GTA 3.  

 

 

Also...  The fact that it doesn't work the same, doesn't give everyone and advantage and is highly unpredictable is the reason why this mechanic is doesn't always work as intended..

 

Simply factor in connection to other racers.   This alone can cause wonky things to happen like teleporting..and it can also cause traffic to float and twitch around.   So wether its extreme bad connection to players and the not so bad connection to players slip stream will work differently..   

 

And, lets face it,  It should not work while turning or going slow.  Which is obviously going to cause problems if you race clean.


FasterThanYou
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#123

Posted 12 February 2014 - 02:35 PM

 

 

 

Also...  The fact that it doesn't work the same, doesn't give everyone and advantage and is highly unpredictable is the reason why this mechanic is doesn't always work as intended.

 

That´s just an extra problem.

 

Even if it was 100% consistent and equal for everybody, it would still be broken because the effect it has has nothing to do with what they tried to replicate.

 

I mean, if soccer was played with a cube instead of a ball, it would still be the same for everybody playing, but that doesn´t mean it would be any good.


BazzyB
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#124

Posted 12 February 2014 - 02:51 PM Edited by BazzyB, 12 February 2014 - 03:01 PM.

I have never really noticed any issues of slip streaming around corners to be honest, maybe long open corners but then i just move to either the inside or outside to overtake depending on where the next turn is.  But i have noticed at tracks that i am not familiar with that when you do slipstream and you do go for an overtake it is a lot harder slow the vehicle down and you can just get slammed into a wall or overshoot. But on the next lap I just adapt and adjust my braking markers so i know roughly the point i can brake the latest at to make the corner. When i am familiar with the track i don't get sucked in to slip streaming if i know im going to over shoot so i just back off and wait for the next opportunity to overtake. I think sometimes some racers are so fixed on overtaking someone that they can go past the point of no return whilst slip streaming and haven't got a hope in hell of making the corner. I just bide my time, focus on my own race,  concentrate on what i am doing rather than the person in front and then pick my moment to overtake cleanly.

 

I don't think its broken but i do believe there is room for improvement in the mechanics of it slightly. But until it is improved all i can say is just adapt and have fun.

 

I will forward the template on to Rockstar. 


Vooodu
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#125

Posted 12 February 2014 - 03:01 PM Edited by Vooodu, 12 February 2014 - 03:03 PM.

 

I don't think its broken but i do believe there is room for improvement in the mechanics of it slightly. But until it is improved all i can say is just adapt and have fun.

 

 

Well to be honest, slip stream should not work when turning and breaking right?  Also the effects of slip stream are different depending on actual connection to players.

 

I've had slip stream kick in when the player ahead of me was around the block with a 8 second lead.  Thats insane... I can't even see the guy yet im drating him?

 

Also the slip stream boosts your speed.  So, if you come into a turn really hot and it kicks in, it causes problems. Espeically when driving to race clean.  Sure, in pub races with rammers its nothing to care about. Il just ram the guy in front and let him absorb my unwanted speed.  But in clean races... omg its so annoying.

 

Ya sure.. We all have been adapting and having fun.   But i would love a fix or a straight up option to toggle it off because most of the time its more annoying then useful.


BazzyB
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#126

Posted 12 February 2014 - 03:20 PM

@ vooddu - Slipping whilst not in sight! that's crazy! Ive never had that, i don't want to sound like im patronising you or anything but was the catchup off? if not could that be a feature of it or not? If not then it must be separate user issues where some people experience it and others don't? I suppose if i had experienced anything like that i would probably be a bit more miffed.

 

I dont think it should be a simple on/off function because i like the idea of having some realistic features, i think just at the minute its a bit exaggerated and obviously in yours and others cases way of the ball.  

 

I think i would prefer it if they reduced the effect of the slip streaming and removed the blurred lights coming from the back of the car and maybe substitute that for an air sound and a slight visual speed increase?

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Vooodu
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#127

Posted 12 February 2014 - 03:28 PM Edited by Vooodu, 12 February 2014 - 03:29 PM.

@ vooddu - Slipping whilst not in sight! that's crazy! Ive never had that, i don't want to sound like im patronising you or anything but was the catchup off? if not could that be a feature of it or not? If not then it must be separate user issues where some people experience it and others don't? I suppose if i had experienced anything like that i would probably be a bit more miffed.

 

I dont think it should be a simple on/off function because i like the idea of having some realistic features, i think just at the minute its a bit exaggerated and obviously in yours and others cases way of the ball.  

 

I think i would prefer it if they reduced the effect of the slip streaming and removed the blurred lights coming from the back of the car and maybe substitute that for an air sound and a slight visual speed increase?

 

 

I use turtle beaches when i play and have an easy time hearing the slip stream kicking in.    Its actually pretty funny when it kicks in when players are so far away.. Although i won't complain when it happens mostly.  Its a pain when trying to drive close to others in tight turns while racing clean when this happens.  It turns on and off..at the worst moments which will cause players to have to adjust.

 

Theres one easy way to really see how its doesn't work correctly.  Play with a bunch of friends or clean racers in a race with alot of turns and follow each other..  Someone is gonna get the short end of the slip steam stick sooner or later.  And that will either cause a wipe or a crash.

 

I myself would be happy with a toggle off option.  Even more happy if they added a nitro boost for racing instead of slip stream.  At least then the player can wait for the right moment to use that speed boost for the pass.

 

I do like the concept of slip stream.. And when playing games where connection to the other race is great its works fine. 


FasterThanYou
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#128

Posted 12 February 2014 - 03:30 PM

@ vooddu - Slipping whilst not in sight! that's crazy! Ive never had that, i don't want to sound like im patronising you or anything but was the catchup off? if not could that be a feature of it or not? If not then it must be separate user issues where some people experience it and others don't? I suppose if i had experienced anything like that i would probably be a bit more miffed.

 

I dont think it should be a simple on/off function because i like the idea of having some realistic features, i think just at the minute its a bit exaggerated and obviously in yours and others cases way of the ball.  

 

I think i would prefer it if they reduced the effect of the slip streaming and removed the blurred lights coming from the back of the car and maybe substitute that for an air sound and a slight visual speed increase?

 

You have a point about the visual and sound effects needing a change too.

 

I mean, these vapour trails are ridiculous going behind a Blista at 80 km/h. I don´t know what the point is.

Also you shouldn´t hear your engine note changing... you shouldn´t hear anything. What the hell is that boost sound you hear when driving in a slipstream??


LuapYllier
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#129

Posted 12 February 2014 - 03:52 PM

You shouldn't be on the throttle in a hard turn at all... Why is that difficult for you to also brake slightly to avoid the speed boost during the turn and then boost out of it afterwards?

I will give an example...say you have a nice 90 degree turn and your going from 3 lane to three lane. Plenty of room. You have two experienced racers who know the track very well and know when to brake and when to gas on this turn. Driver A dives in brakes a little and turns as normal. Driver B moving the same speed behind him but feathering the throttle a little because slip is active at his current distance tries to do the same proffessional turn but because slip is active his brakes dont work for sh*t and he has three choices, 1 allow himself to be pulled into the rear end of driver A, 2 adjust wide on the turn having too much speed and no brakes causing cars rear to slip and you to either completely spin out, slam the wall on the outside or at minimum lose enough speed to make you fall back far enough to lose the slip and any chance of catching up to an equally talented driver, or 3) know all this ahead of time and reduce your speed in advance of the corner so as to be getting less slip and be able to make the corner safely but have lost ground due to slowing down. If your lucky you can do option 3 while maintaining proximity for staying in slip and pull back up but to have equals on a technically challenging track with short straights and many turns makes passing extremely difficult when your spending most of your time fighting a system intended to be helping you.

It has its purposes but a lot of downsides as well. I would like to see it toggleable, not removed.
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LuapYllier
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#130

Posted 12 February 2014 - 04:04 PM

@Vooodu, bud, we get it.. You race ALOTT, and just because you do doesn't mean you're good what so ever.. No need to post it every other post. GTA is not a racing game, of course it isn't going to be perfect because they probably don't care very much about it. Also you need to tone it down a bit, you come off as a twit. I have over 325 races, slip screen isn't a big enough problem for them to worry about. If it only affected a select few then yes, but it is balanced.
OT: There is literally 100's of other things to fix in this game before this is even considered. Its not even that big of an issue to begin with, so i hope it stays.

I can vouch for Vooodu being a great driver, I can also vouch for his lag issues. I agree that racing is a side event in GTA but that is no reason to overlook it for improvements. 325 races is not a lot. It is slipstream not screen. There are other more important issue to concern the devs with but again...it isnt like adding a toggle would be that time consuming.

LuapYllier
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#131

Posted 12 February 2014 - 04:16 PM

"Yay dey shul impruf fri room kilin'"

no.

they should improve missions. that's the core if this game. everything else (side jobs) have no real effect on the "characters" progression.

Funny, races show up as the same blue circles for optional content as the missions, deathmatches, survivals, captures etc. AND pays more than all of the above. So no one ask for any improvements to 75% of the game content because the only core material is the phone missions.

BazzyB
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#132

Posted 12 February 2014 - 04:20 PM

@ Faster than you - I know it's ridiculous and gives off a cartoony feel to me. I think its been added in to emphasise that you are going faster and slip streaming, a bit over done i think.

 

@ LuapYLLier - option 3 is probably what i tend to go for, just hang back instead of getting sucked in. But the more i think about it now, the more i realise that actually there are quite a few flaws, why should i have to compensate my speed in order just to make it round and not hit the guy in front, he isn't slowing down and putting his braking markers back a little, i am because your sucking me in. Different kettle of fish if it was a girl in front though...  ;)

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LuapYllier
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#133

Posted 12 February 2014 - 05:24 PM

Exactly. If the system gives the person behind more difficulties and penalties than benefits than it is flawed.
As I read through a few more comments came to mind.

For some people this IS a racing game with combat options. Whether other people like that fact or not is not particularly important. There are crewz out there that do nothing but deathmatch and free mode and would not touch a race with a ten foot pole. i dont go into threads complaining about deathmatches and tell them it is not a DM game stop asking for improvements. My crew spends over 95% of its time racing according to the social club. Don't tell us it is not a racing game.

Slipstream as I understand it is a phenomenon that happens at very high speeds and effects a vehicles fuel consumption and has very little effect on a vehicles speed. The following car must be very close to reap this benefit. The stream of air would be instantly disrupted the moment the lead vehicle starts to turnand modifies its profile thus ending the effect. Any amount of braking by the lead would immediately null the effect and the tail car would be so close that they would immediately have to brake as well anyway.

The slipstream we have all come to know in racing games is a completely fictional fabrication that in no way represents the real effect. I dont watch a lot of racing but the only time I remember hearing about slipstreaming in real races is with nascar where there are no sudden turns, braking events or other disruptions which allows the cars to travel virtually bumper to bumper and make use of this effect. It does not happen on road courses where vehicles are seperated by several car lengths to manage corners and speed changes.

Speaking of lag I have had slip effects and sounds applied to my car while running in first place. The game thought the person behind me on my screen was really in front of me and even gave them a win. I have seen cars fly through trees, crash into buildings and even float off into the air like ET only to pop back onto the track in front of me a moment later. Cars in front of me suddenly poofing and apearing behind me. Follow a car all the way down a straight with no slip effect only to have the sound and effect all kick in at once the moment we entered the turn. With as many connection issues as this game has slipstream can't work as desired.

Someone commented on Vooodu being a sh*t racer because they looked at his record. If you feel that someones stats in racing are any reflection of their ability I feel sorry for you. Not everyone cares about those stats. Hell I once stopped at a finish line and sent a message through xbox to the second place driver asking him if he was going to join me at the finish line...i was getting lonely...I then let him take the win because he was lower level than I.

I had other things along the way but I have now forgotten them...should take notes lol.

Oh someone should check my times on dockyard or whats the name of the one up in the hills that is half dirt and half pavement? That should give what qualifications I have...I cant access that info here.

Oh wait yeah I remember the last one...
The reason I believe there is a huge difference in peoples opinions on this feature even among regular racers is due to the racers competition and who they race all the time. For instance if I am a good racer and I spend a lot of time doing random races or going against random people of varying ability, there is a good chance that I will quickly weed out the trash, have maybe one or two actual competitors and usually be in the lead. The chances of that slipstream removing my competition as tbey try to overtake is pretty high especially if I have any defensive driving skills. So essentially it helps the first place driver more than those trying to pass. These people would think there is no problem with it.
However, a good racer who spends a lot of his time competing with other quality racers or even an average racer dealing with equal quality racers, will not always be assured of finding themselves quickly in front of a crashed out pile of cars. There could often be sets of 3 or 4 or even more drivers closely following each other like a snake through an s curve. These types of situations are made immensely more difficult by slipstream. You could also be just slightly faster than someone for a couple of laps making perfect turns and slowly gaining on your foe and then right at the moment where your setting up to make a pass you suddenly have a completely different car under your ass because of some magical illogical force.

TL:DR It has its uses and places but in short is is overpowered, incorrectly applied and should have a toggle for those that choose to run without it.
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Vooodu
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#134

Posted 12 February 2014 - 05:35 PM

Spoken like someone who knows what they are talking about ^.  :D


Accendo
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#135

Posted 12 February 2014 - 06:07 PM

tldr; OP can't drive and blames game mechanics.

Vooodu
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#136

Posted 12 February 2014 - 06:11 PM Edited by Vooodu, 12 February 2014 - 06:12 PM.

tldr; OP can't drive and blames game mechanics.

 

 

Maybe you should actually read it before posting then?

 

If you can't bother to read it, maybe you should not post either.

 

Because not once did the OP say he can't drive let alone blame anything for not being able to drive.  Hes talking about slip stream,  Which is was the point of the topic.

 

 

I know,, reading is hard.  But hey, thats life.

 

ITT players who barely race and barely read sure have alot of opinions on the topic.     :D


Accendo
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#137

Posted 12 February 2014 - 06:13 PM

He clearly can't drive if he can't figure out slipstream in corners.

LuapYllier
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#138

Posted 12 February 2014 - 06:14 PM

Additionally...after some reading I can add some details...
The shape of an object determines how strong the effect is. In general, the more aerodynamic an object is, the smaller and weaker its slipstream will be.
If an object is inside the slipstream behind another object, moving at the same speed, the rear object will require less power to maintain its speed then if it were moving independantly. In addition, the leading object will be able to move faster that it could independantly, because the rear object reduces the effect of the low-pressure region behind the leading object.
Auto racing drivers draft in order to conserve fuel, reduce fuel stops or, more often, to reach a higher speed before pulling out to overtake another driver.

Source wikipedia.

So one could infer that proper application in the game should be that two vehicles locked up close together and traveling at same speed should be able to travel together at a slightly higher top end than other individual cars. The car behind would be using less power and thus would have a slight bit of throttle remaining to use at time of choice for a pass. This would be implimented by allowing a sort of buildup of a slip meter (just an internal stat, no need to show it to us) maybe even use the same current noise, that increases as you tailgate very close to someone at top speed of the vehicle. At the drivers discression he would pull out from behind the lead car causing two things...the lead car would lose its bit of added speed from the draft and the passing car would recieve a brief but focused bit of extra power simulating the extra throttle. This would only last a second or two as the loss of lead car would quickly normalise the power of the passing car. It would only be an effective tool for use on long top speed straights and would have no effect on anyone at lower speeds, in corners or with vehicles of mismatched sizes like a sandking slipping a sanchez. It would also have a larger effect on larger boxy vehicles like SUV's and much less effect and more difficulty of using for small profile super cars.

Or they could just toggle the option and let us decide.

PaulDPearl
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#139

Posted 12 February 2014 - 06:18 PM

I hate crutches - and people who defend them.. slipstream, catchup, Go timing bonus - all crutches...

 

I'm not going to waste my time with this memo though because... it aint gonna change. I'll just wait for the modders to fix it when it comes out for PC...


Accendo
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#140

Posted 12 February 2014 - 06:19 PM

You're one of the most adaptable species on the planet. Learn to deal with it.

LuapYllier
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#141

Posted 12 February 2014 - 06:26 PM

Your just trolling now...well have been for a while. You adapt to situations that cannot be changed. This can be changed.

I just imagined you telling MLK to adapt and learn to deal with it...SMH

(and if you dont know who that is im not going into it)

Accendo
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#142

Posted 12 February 2014 - 06:38 PM Edited by Accendo, 12 February 2014 - 06:42 PM.

Lol I'm trolling because I don't have such massive issues driving my car? The implication being that if I DON'T crash in corners due to slipstream somehow that makes me an inferior racer?
Lmfao you children are funny.
You adapt to any situation. Not just the situations that can't be changed. Can YOU change anything? No? Then I guess you'd better adapt or stfu.
And are you really stupid enough to liken racism with a game mechanic that you suck at exploiting?

FasterThanYou
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#143

Posted 12 February 2014 - 07:04 PM

Lol I'm trolling because I don't have such massive issues driving my car?

 

Considering you are still to make a post with any informative content on the issue, I would bet my house you´re having a hell of a lot more problems than anyone else around to drive your car.

 

Can we change anything? Maybe, maybe not. But we´ll bother trying, it wouldn´t be the first players give feedback and developers react. It doesn´t take time to do this gesture, and we could get a nice reward for very little effort. 

 

So go the f*ck away already if you´re not interested in this topic. If your only point is "cope with it" we´ve been doing since day one, and much better than you´ll ever do.


Accendo
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#144

Posted 12 February 2014 - 07:18 PM Edited by Accendo, 12 February 2014 - 07:23 PM.


Lol I'm trolling because I don't have such massive issues driving my car?

 
Considering you are still to make a post with any informative content on the issue, I would bet my house you´re having a hell of a lot more problems than anyone else around to drive your car.
 
Can we change anything? Maybe, maybe not. But we´ll bother trying, it wouldn´t be the first players give feedback and developers react. It doesn´t take time to do this gesture, and we could get a nice reward for very little effort. 
 
So go the f*ck away already if you´re not interested in this topic. If your only point is "cope with it" we´ve been doing since day one, and much better than you´ll ever do.
BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA















No. It's not my fault you won't read. I already explained how to pass on a corner using slipstream. You apes couldn't figure it out. After that it officially becomes your own problem.
You f*cked yourself over for further help on the matter when you decided to condescend to anyone who offers advice by implying that it wouldn't work because you're "teh secks" at racing and CANNOT be beaten by anyone on the forums. You're a bad joke.

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#145

Posted 12 February 2014 - 07:21 PM

OK, then stay and be our pet. After all it´s useful to have people (or whatever you are) keeping this thread active, it helps more people reading it and more people getting involved. 


Kahkenbols
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#146

Posted 12 February 2014 - 07:23 PM

If you can turn off catch up then why not the slip stream as well in the options. It's off in free roam so why the hell not give the option in races. People have their preferences. Our crew would enjoy racing more without the stupid slipstream and we would have it off in our lobbies. On the other hand, people like Accendo who like to hang back until the finish line and rocket past everyone for the win, well you can have your cake and eat it too man. It's all about giving people who play the game the choice.


Accendo
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#147

Posted 12 February 2014 - 07:24 PM

Yes, let's make assumptions on each other's racing style now. That's a sure sign of intelligence!

paulmgrath
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#148

Posted 12 February 2014 - 07:29 PM Edited by paulmgrath, 12 February 2014 - 07:30 PM.

Need for Speed the run had a decent way off doing it,
when people pass me with slipstream i honk the horn to say thanks for not spinning me out like the three guys just before

FasterThanYou
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#149

Posted 12 February 2014 - 07:31 PM

Yes, let's make assumptions on each other's racing style now. That's a sure sign of intelligence!

 

That´s it, keep bumping it high.

 

PS: if you want to prove me wrong, we can do a race.


Kahkenbols
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#150

Posted 12 February 2014 - 07:32 PM

Yes, let's make assumptions on each other's racing style now. That's a sure sign of intelligence!

 

Your here railing on the point of having this as an option or having the power of it reduced, talking about how everyone just sucks and can't adapt. So the assumption is made that you can't win without it. So don't send the message to Rockstar and move on broski. Those who care about having the option will.





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