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MarshalMoo
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#121

Posted 09 February 2014 - 12:56 AM

And this is still on TV, scaring children:

ZAlxzb8.jpg


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#122

Posted 09 February 2014 - 01:20 AM

^This is why you are being voted unfunniest member.

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#123

Posted 09 February 2014 - 01:30 AM

 

seriously who gives a sh*t.

 

hey, let's argue about whether or not OJ Simpson killed his white bitch.

who cares? it's done. the trial is past. let the kid rest in peace.

 

I just want to see DMX smash that chubby fool like a bloated pimple.

his lack of a conviction is an important event in American history. It's not just a matter of some thing that happened in a stasis. It's a matter that shows the relationships that Americans still have with race and guns. Same with the OJ thing.

 

 

Can you say this event shows the relationship Americans have with race and guns? If Zimmerman had a problem with black people in general, that's not really representative of America, or even the state he was in. That's a single man with a gun. One data point. The issue seemed to be extremely blown out of proportion once the national media started reporting on it constantly, especially when NBC tried to make Zimmerman out to be a racist because of an edited 911 tape.


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#124

Posted 09 February 2014 - 01:39 AM

 

 

seriously who gives a sh*t.

 

hey, let's argue about whether or not OJ Simpson killed his white bitch.

who cares? it's done. the trial is past. let the kid rest in peace.

 

I just want to see DMX smash that chubby fool like a bloated pimple.

his lack of a conviction is an important event in American history. It's not just a matter of some thing that happened in a stasis. It's a matter that shows the relationships that Americans still have with race and guns. Same with the OJ thing.

 

 

Can you say this event shows the relationship Americans have with race and guns? If Zimmerman had a problem with black people in general, that's not really representative of America, or even the state he was in. That's a single man with a gun. One data point. The issue seemed to be extremely blown out of proportion once the national media started reporting on it constantly, especially when NBC tried to make Zimmerman out to be a racist because of an edited 911 tape.

 

Do you think the outcome may have been different if it had been a young straight A's white male from a rich established family who was killed instead? I think yes. That's the whole thing for some people, and I can see the issue there.

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#125

Posted 09 February 2014 - 01:41 AM

 

 

seriously who gives a sh*t.

 

hey, let's argue about whether or not OJ Simpson killed his white bitch.

who cares? it's done. the trial is past. let the kid rest in peace.

 

I just want to see DMX smash that chubby fool like a bloated pimple.

his lack of a conviction is an important event in American history. It's not just a matter of some thing that happened in a stasis. It's a matter that shows the relationships that Americans still have with race and guns. Same with the OJ thing.

 

 

Can you say this event shows the relationship Americans have with race and guns? If Zimmerman had a problem with black people in general, that's not really representative of America, or even the state he was in. That's a single man with a gun. One data point. The issue seemed to be extremely blown out of proportion once the national media started reporting on it constantly, especially when NBC tried to make Zimmerman out to be a racist because of an edited 911 tape.

 

America is a pretty racist place. Even if some more sophisticated people hide it behind stuff like stand your ground laws and act like this case was purely clinical, the large motivating factor behind support for Zimmerman is that Martin was black. He's a representation of middle class fears, the angry black weed smoking drug taking teenager, lurking around gated homes looking for a place to rob. Even if the 'liberal media' over-hyped this (I don't believe this is the case) then fine. It's about time mainstream media takes the side of minorities for once.

 

How this relates to guns is obvious.

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#126

Posted 09 February 2014 - 01:41 AM

This whole Zimmerman saga has been so completely blown out of proportion by zealots and idiots on both sides. What was just a report about some moron who tried to play cowboy and ended up killing an unarmed kid has turned into a sh*t throwing contest about race and guns. It's just embarrassing that our supposed "enlightened" civilization can be turned into a troop of monkeys by 24 hour news networks. We are no better than our ancestors who died at twenty and lived in fear of the moon. 


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#127

Posted 09 February 2014 - 01:51 AM

This whole Zimmerman saga has been so completely blown out of proportion by zealots and idiots on both sides. What was just a report about some moron who tried to play cowboy and ended up killing an unarmed kid has turned into a sh*t throwing contest about race and guns. It's just embarrassing that our supposed "enlightened" civilization can be turned into a troop of monkeys by 24 hour news networks. We are no better than our ancestors who died at twenty and lived in fear of the moon. 

So you believe that we should just let these things slide? That we shouldn't debate what's right and wrong, and just sweep social issues under the rug? You understand that if we do that, society would never progress anywhere, we'd all still be a bunch of racists shunning blacks because anyone that argues it is just "starting a sh*t throwing contest".


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#128

Posted 09 February 2014 - 02:00 AM

 

This whole Zimmerman saga has been so completely blown out of proportion by zealots and idiots on both sides. What was just a report about some moron who tried to play cowboy and ended up killing an unarmed kid has turned into a sh*t throwing contest about race and guns. It's just embarrassing that our supposed "enlightened" civilization can be turned into a troop of monkeys by 24 hour news networks. We are no better than our ancestors who died at twenty and lived in fear of the moon. 

So you believe that we should just let these things slide? That we shouldn't debate what's right and wrong, and just sweep social issues under the rug? You understand that if we do that, society would never progress anywhere, we'd all still be a bunch of racists shunning blacks because anyone that argues it is just "starting a sh*t throwing contest".

 

Browse through this topic and read some of the more colorful posts. You can't discuss any social issues when it comes to this topic because people are too clouded by there emotions to debate it rationally. If people would stop clinging to emotional appeals and buzzwords maybe we could discuss whatever social implications Trayvon's death had, but it has been almost two years since the shooting and people can still not think straight. 


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#129

Posted 09 February 2014 - 02:05 AM

 

 

 

seriously who gives a sh*t.

 

hey, let's argue about whether or not OJ Simpson killed his white bitch.

who cares? it's done. the trial is past. let the kid rest in peace.

 

I just want to see DMX smash that chubby fool like a bloated pimple.

his lack of a conviction is an important event in American history. It's not just a matter of some thing that happened in a stasis. It's a matter that shows the relationships that Americans still have with race and guns. Same with the OJ thing.

 

 

Can you say this event shows the relationship Americans have with race and guns? If Zimmerman had a problem with black people in general, that's not really representative of America, or even the state he was in. That's a single man with a gun. One data point. The issue seemed to be extremely blown out of proportion once the national media started reporting on it constantly, especially when NBC tried to make Zimmerman out to be a racist because of an edited 911 tape.

 

America is a pretty racist place. Even if some more sophisticated people hide it behind stuff like stand your ground laws and act like this case was purely clinical, the large motivating factor behind support for Zimmerman is that Martin was black. He's a representation of middle class fears, the angry black weed smoking drug taking teenager, lurking around gated homes looking for a place to rob.

 

How this relates to guns is obvious.

 

 

I don't think a large motivating factor for support was his race. There's no proof of that. Sure, some of the people rallying behind Zimmerman might be doing it for racial reasons but that's them. That doesn't mean everyone supporting Zimmerman or not supporting Martin is a racist. I think most people, regardless of class and/or race, are worried about angry drug-addict thieves of any race, not just black or non-white.

 

 

 

 

seriously who gives a sh*t.

 

hey, let's argue about whether or not OJ Simpson killed his white bitch.

who cares? it's done. the trial is past. let the kid rest in peace.

 

I just want to see DMX smash that chubby fool like a bloated pimple.

his lack of a conviction is an important event in American history. It's not just a matter of some thing that happened in a stasis. It's a matter that shows the relationships that Americans still have with race and guns. Same with the OJ thing.

 

 

Can you say this event shows the relationship Americans have with race and guns? If Zimmerman had a problem with black people in general, that's not really representative of America, or even the state he was in. That's a single man with a gun. One data point. The issue seemed to be extremely blown out of proportion once the national media started reporting on it constantly, especially when NBC tried to make Zimmerman out to be a racist because of an edited 911 tape.

 

Do you think the outcome may have been different if it had been a young straight A's white male from a rich established family who was killed instead? I think yes. That's the whole thing for some people, and I can see the issue there.

 

 

Possibly. But you can always hypothesize about it, that doesn't mean it's true.

 

If you want to sift through some Florida SYG cases, go ahead.

 

http://www.tampabay....law/fatal-cases

 

Example:

 

http://www.tampabay....w/cases/case_82

 

And that's a white-male on white-male case where the defendant was acquitted. The case obviously isn't going to be exactly the same, but you might find one if you look through it.

 

 

 

 

Even if the 'liberal media' over-hyped this (I don't believe this is the case) then fine.

 

In some ways they did. Specifically the NBC example (NBC is notoriously liberal. It's the antithesis of FOX).

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#130

Posted 09 February 2014 - 02:05 AM

 

 

This whole Zimmerman saga has been so completely blown out of proportion by zealots and idiots on both sides. What was just a report about some moron who tried to play cowboy and ended up killing an unarmed kid has turned into a sh*t throwing contest about race and guns. It's just embarrassing that our supposed "enlightened" civilization can be turned into a troop of monkeys by 24 hour news networks. We are no better than our ancestors who died at twenty and lived in fear of the moon. 

So you believe that we should just let these things slide? That we shouldn't debate what's right and wrong, and just sweep social issues under the rug? You understand that if we do that, society would never progress anywhere, we'd all still be a bunch of racists shunning blacks because anyone that argues it is just "starting a sh*t throwing contest".

 

Browse through this topic and read some of the more colorful posts. You can't discuss any social issues when it comes to this topic because people are too clouded by there emotions to debate it rationally. If people would stop clinging to emotional appeals and buzzwords maybe we could discuss whatever social implications Trayvon's death had, but it has been almost two years since the shooting and people can still not think straight. 

 

What are you talking about? People aren't robots, we're talking about something that is completely based on emotions and feelings. Let's not pretend your indifference on a black man being murdered is due to you being the epitome of scientific reason. This remark is the same as the people in Britain who say 'we need to have an honest discussion about immigration', being code for I'm a racist and you should fight your argument on my terms.


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#131

Posted 09 February 2014 - 02:14 AM Edited by Nipperkins, 09 February 2014 - 02:14 AM.

Wonderful. Now I'm racist. Wow, I learn so many new things about myself on GTA forums. 

 

Everything humans believe in is based on emotions to a certain degree. It only becomes harmful when you say things like:

 

 the large motivating factor behind support for Zimmerman is that Martin was black. He's a representation of middle class fears, the angry black weed smoking drug taking teenager, lurking around gated homes looking for a place to rob.

 

 

and

 

He shot an unarmed black kid (whom he was harassing) during a fist fight. Then droves of racist gun owners came out to support him because apparently the reason Americans love guns is so they can defend their gated communities from the hordes of inhuman black youths. Also he was acquitted by a jury of dumb Florida rednecks.

 

 

Which adds nothing to the debate and only fuels the fire of hate and misunderstanding. This is exactly what I was talking about in my first post. 


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#132

Posted 09 February 2014 - 02:22 AM Edited by Nale Dixon, 09 February 2014 - 02:23 AM.

 

I don't think a large motivating factor for support was his race. There's no proof of that. Sure, some of the people rallying behind Zimmerman might be doing it for racial reasons but that's them. That doesn't mean everyone supporting Zimmerman or not supporting Martin is a racist. I think most people, regardless of class and/or race, are worried about angry drug-addict thieves of any race, not just black or non-white.

I do think that if Trayvon Martin had been white, Zimmerman would not have followed him. I agree though, that's speculation. It doesn't really matter anyway because what I'm saying is that the public reaction to the case is the important matter here. That and the abomination of a trial. Yeah but you surely understand the point I'm making. If a white person sees a black man in or near a gated neighbourhood and they're not wearing a suit and driving a limo they most likely immediately assume he is up to no good. It's what Zimmerman did. That fear is clearly motivated, even be it subconsciously, by a fear of blacks, minorities, anyone who is not part of their social structure. Even a homeless bum, if white would not have been pursued and murdered like Martin was.

 

And that's a white-male on white-male case where the defendant was acquitted. The case obviously isn't going to be exactly the same, but you might find one if you look through it.

 

The stand your ground law isn't relevant to the racial factor, but it is relevant to guns.

 

In some ways they did. Specifically the NBC example (NBC is notoriously liberal. It's the antithesis of FOX).

Well you can't really blame a media corporation for chasing ratings. But if those ratings actually highlight some sort of issue that affects people on the bottom rung, then great.


Wonderful. Now I'm racist. Wow, I learn so many new things about myself on GTA forums. 

 

Everything humans believe in is based on emotions to a certain degree. It only becomes harmful when you say things like:

 

 the large motivating factor behind support for Zimmerman is that Martin was black. He's a representation of middle class fears, the angry black weed smoking drug taking teenager, lurking around gated homes looking for a place to rob.

 

 

and

 

He shot an unarmed black kid (whom he was harassing) during a fist fight. Then droves of racist gun owners came out to support him because apparently the reason Americans love guns is so they can defend their gated communities from the hordes of inhuman black youths. Also he was acquitted by a jury of dumb Florida rednecks.

 

 

Which adds nothing to the debate and only fuels the fire of hate and misunderstanding. This is exactly what I was talking about in my first post. 

It's not my fault that people generally categorise others based on fear and stereotypes. If you think that the middle classes in gated communities don't have a fear of blacks simply because they're black, or poor people because they're poor, or whatever then you have to wonder why they live in gated communities.

 

Look, I'm not going to pretend that I don't understand how black males are viewed by American society. Claiming that people 'should' stop bringing up race is all nice and liberal of you, but the fact is that the whole reason that this is a news topic in the way that it is is because human beings generally fear anything that is different to their idea of society and social groups.

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#133

Posted 09 February 2014 - 02:47 AM

The only reason race was brought up was because the news media wanted it to be about race. The real issue was about how Zimmerman was an idiot and deserved to go to jail, and whether deadly force could be used in self defense. 


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#134

Posted 09 February 2014 - 03:44 AM

Wonderful. Now I'm racist. Wow, I learn so many new things about myself on GTA forums. 

 

Everything humans believe in is based on emotions to a certain degree. It only becomes harmful when you say things like:

 

 the large motivating factor behind support for Zimmerman is that Martin was black. He's a representation of middle class fears, the angry black weed smoking drug taking teenager, lurking around gated homes looking for a place to rob.

 

 

and

 

He shot an unarmed black kid (whom he was harassing) during a fist fight. Then droves of racist gun owners came out to support him because apparently the reason Americans love guns is so they can defend their gated communities from the hordes of inhuman black youths. Also he was acquitted by a jury of dumb Florida rednecks.

 

 

Which adds nothing to the debate and only fuels the fire of hate and misunderstanding. This is exactly what I was talking about in my first post. 

Yeah. alright mate, you've set us straight. I guess I know nothing about this case and was just letting off meaningless liberal rubbish that I just pulled out of my arse. Since you're obviously the voice of reason; the mediating mother bridging the gap between our disparate perspectives, how about you explain to us the social and political significance of this event? I thought being educated and politically aware was enough to have a valid opinion, but apparently I have to keep the emotion down to a level you find acceptable before I can even begin to discuss a case I know a great deal about.

 

f*ck right off.


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#135

Posted 09 February 2014 - 03:50 AM

Can you debate by any other means besides ad hominems, hyperbole, and strawmen? I'm genuinely curious.  


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#136

Posted 09 February 2014 - 04:40 AM

Can you debate by any other means besides ad hominems, hyperbole, and strawmen? I'm genuinely curious.  

Please don't use those words, you can't tell the difference between the words 'your' and 'you're'. Note, this isn't an ad hominem, this isn't part of any discussion.

 

Suggesting that people are motivated by racial discrimination i not an ad hominem when a large part of the reason the case is in public interest is due to RACE.

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#137

Posted 09 February 2014 - 04:52 AM

I don't give a sh*t if people are interested in this case because of race. People are morons. Race wasn't even a huge issue until MSNBC called Zimmerman a "white Hispanic" then Fox started bitching, and then it was a race issue. 

 

Even if Zimmerman did follow Trayvon because he was black, it doesn't reflect America as a whole because Zimmerman is a dumbass, as his actions show. 


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#138

Posted 09 February 2014 - 04:54 AM

You're right. America certainly has no racial issues.

 

pic14.jpg

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#139

Posted 09 February 2014 - 04:59 AM Edited by theadmiral, 09 February 2014 - 04:59 AM.

terrel%20owens.jpg

 

Guys , the fight is off, its not happening!

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#140

Posted 09 February 2014 - 04:59 AM

It does, but making issues that weren't racial to begin with racial will only things. 

 

Oh, btw, the current KKK has no more than 10,000 members. 


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#141

Posted 09 February 2014 - 05:08 AM

It does, but making issues that weren't racial to begin with racial will only things. 

 

Oh, btw, the current KKK has no more than 10,000 members. 

Firstly, it was racial to begin with. You just admitted that Zimmerman is a 'dumbass' and it's pretty obvious to anyone that Martin was followed due to his skin colour. Regardless of this, if a society looks at an incident such as this and a large part of decides collectively that there was some sort of persecution or unjust action going on, then clearly those issues are already purveying in that society. Frankly. Trayvon Martin's murder was just a springboard for expressing the attitudes felt by many black people in American society.

 

You can pretend all you like that actions in a society occur in a bubble and each case is completely alien from how that society works, but doing this is setting you up to look really ignorant and/or stupid.


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#142

Posted 09 February 2014 - 05:17 AM

If it's so obvious, why are we having this discussion?

 

No insulting me now!


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#143

Posted 09 February 2014 - 05:26 AM

Honestly I think that Zimmerman should go find a nice deep dark cave this cave should be so deep and dark Zimmerman could never see the light of day again! Oh wait I have a better idea solitary confinement in a dark cold and damp prison cell with only a half hour a week only to clean up, and church.
OT I won't watch this

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#144

Posted 09 February 2014 - 05:27 AM Edited by Nale Dixon, 09 February 2014 - 05:29 AM.

If it's so obvious, why are we having this discussion?

 

No insulting me now!

Because some people on this forum are American style libertarians and much like the Godmother of the movement, they're white pro corporate capitalists who support the social order because it works for them. They're also pretty bad at creating writing with any depth or dimension to it and like to live in a fantasy world where things are simple, black and white and every action occurs outside of society and should be judged as such.

 

The only thing that confuses me is that Ayn Rand, stupid as she was, had a decent reason to be a capitalist fetishist when her family lifestyle was crushed when she was a child by the Bolshevik revolution. Americans who were born into a pretty cushy middle class lifestyle don't really have that weight behind their beliefs, only the fact that for them the system is peachy.

 

Of course Ayn Rand would have never left Russia or became anything but a peasant farmer's wife if the Communists hadn't revolted and subsequently allowed females to enroll. I'm a nice guy though, so I'll let it slide.

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#145

Posted 09 February 2014 - 05:37 AM

I asked why people have disagreements over this issue, not some anti-libertarian rant. 


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#146

Posted 09 February 2014 - 05:39 AM

And this is still on TV, scaring children:

ZAlxzb8.jpg

These pictures are the epitome of "blogsh*t."

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#147

Posted 09 February 2014 - 05:39 AM

I asked why people have disagreements over this issue, not some anti-libertarian rant. 

Maybe you don't understand. Well, clearly you don't understand. In fact I'm sick of f*cking repeating myself, why don't you learn to read.


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#148

Posted 09 February 2014 - 05:50 AM

protip: I'm not libertarian. Your previous post doesn't apply to me at all. 


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#149

Posted 09 February 2014 - 05:52 AM

protip: I'm not libertarian. Your previous post doesn't apply to me at all. 

 

I think that was a dig at me, actually, I'm pretty sure it was. Same thing with theadmiral. 


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#150

Posted 09 February 2014 - 05:58 AM

protip: I'm not libertarian. Your previous post doesn't apply to me at all. 

Don't come around me with that stupid 'protip' sh*t. I'm not 14 and this isn't 2006.

 

My post does apply to you because libertarian or not, you show the same symptoms. You're clearly trying to position your argument from the view of a fake 'logic and reason' standpoint. In reality you're arguing that the system works because for you it probably does. 

 

 

protip: I'm not libertarian. Your previous post doesn't apply to me at all. 

 

I think that was a dig at me, actually, I'm pretty sure it was. Same thing with theadmiral. 

 

You've never shown an interest in Ayn Rand, and I wouldn't really fit you in that sort of area completely. But I like you so maybe I'm letting you off the hook.





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