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Has sensitivity gone too far?

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DeafMetal
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#1

Posted 03 February 2014 - 06:45 AM

AKA the political correctness movement that took root in the 90s.

 

This is something that has bothered me insanely over the last few years. People get offended when a joke at the expense of someone or a group of people is made; i.e., black comedy. People get offended when someone uses certain words as adjectives such as "gay" or "retarded." People get offended over things that were not meant to be even remotely related to the subject which was the alleged cause of the offense; examples include Super Mario Bros., Ace Ventura.

 

Seems that younger people are the most prone to this. I remember hearing the single greatest piece of irony I have ever heard from someone a couple of years ago, on the subject of using "gay" as an adjective for "bad, stupid, boring." The person I was talking to said "gay is offensive to gay people... just use something like "lame."" Lame is another word for crippled people. You see this in teenagers and young adults all the damn time, too. Cracked.com, for example, has been subject to a lot of very ridiculous claims based on political correctness. Examples include: "if you don't like a character's race being changed, you're racist." It's a site very commonly visited by college-aged kids. Speaking of that certain group... anyone who's been in a college campus will know how social-justice crazy they are.

 

The result has been censorship. We've seen people's entire careers go down the gutter because they offended someone, and that someone completely blew it out of proportion. Or, we've seen what is basically extortion: a small group will tell a public figure to change X or publicly denounce X or else they would blow it out of proportion and ensue massive amounts of controversy, and the person will do so out of fear. i.e., censorship though bullying.

 

What do you guys think?


Yolo Swaggins
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#2

Posted 03 February 2014 - 06:53 AM

I don't believe in censorship, as long as it isn't bullying a specific person on a direct, personal level. If you can't learn to laugh at yourself, you're not going to last in the real world.


Melchior
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#3

Posted 03 February 2014 - 07:32 AM

So what exactly are people who represent the disadvantaged supposed to do? Just wait a few hundred years to reach equality so that you can enjoy making offensive jokes and calling people fags in the meantime?

 

That Cracked article seemed totally fair. Who cares if he's played by a black actor? What possible objection to the change could they have that doesn't boil down to "I enjoy the character more as a white man"?

 

If anything, sensitivity hasn't gone far enough, and you're more or less proving that point. The unprivileged members of our society (basically everyone who isn't a straight, able bodied white male) are so far away from being equal it's enough to make you sick and any attempt people make to draw attention to this and make some real, tangible progress is met with "oh my god, this is political correctness gone mad!"

 

Pretty much every single white male I know is convinced that we live in a perfectly equal society, that racism and misogyny are just horseplay and that the entire social justice movement is the result of people "reading into things too much." I find it very troubling and I think we need to be doing a lot more; I think we should sit kids down in school and drill it into their heads that we live in an unequal society and that it's wrong. 

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FullMetal
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#4

Posted 03 February 2014 - 07:52 AM

Inequality is not only 'racially'... the world is NOT fair and NOT equal to everyone. Enough of this white guilt nonsense... enough of people thinking 'Whites' have it easier... 'blacks' are being discriminated and every other 'minority' is being discriminated against with every little thing that goes against their way.

 

Oh wait, EVERYONE bitches/whines/moans because things don't go their way. As I said... TOUGH LUCK the world is unfair for everyone. (well yeah, except the 1% that are richer than all the western superpowers together and every damn political leader... but hey we all know that).

Common sense seems to be something that needs to be forced upon people. A Lot of people lack it. And oh, I don't where someone comes from/what skin color he has, what language he speaks or WHAT the f*ck he does. If have respect, are a honest person, put effort into things and just all the other goddamn things that make up a 'human being' you have my respect and you will be treated fairly. If not you well tough luck for you.

 

Again: yes our society is not equal... but then again not everything boils down to f*cking racism/misogyny and whatnot. 

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Melchior
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#5

Posted 03 February 2014 - 07:56 AM

Again: yes our society is not equal... but then again not everything boils down to f*cking racism/misogyny and whatnot. 

I think where the status of minorities and women are concerned... it does.


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#6

Posted 03 February 2014 - 10:53 AM Edited by Mr Scratch, 04 February 2014 - 09:09 AM.

What's wrong with being offended? When did sticks and stones may break my bones stop being relevant? Isn't that what you teach children?

"He called me an idiot! Don't worry about it, he's a dick."

How do you make a law about offending people? How do you make it an offense to offend people? Being offended is subjective. It has everything to do with you as an individual or a collective, or a group or a society or a community. Your moral conditioning, your religious beliefs. What offends me may not offend you. And you want to make laws about this? I'm offended when I see boy bands for god's sake.

It's a valid offense, I'm offended. They're corporate shills, posing as musicians to further a modeling career and frankly I'm disgusted.

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Waldie
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#7

Posted 03 February 2014 - 11:46 AM Edited by Waldie, 03 February 2014 - 11:47 AM.

Yeah I find it irksome. We really have become such a bunch of whining pussies. Makes me want to hurl.

 

I find it amusing that the same people screaming for "equality" are the same people claiming that minorities have to be protected. Don't think that's how equality works.

 

Anyway, I am completely against censorship and believe in actual free speech - not the bullsh*t free speech we allegedly have where we can say what we want as long as it doesn't break the law or offend someone. I don't see why anyone has the right to tell me what I can and cannot say to people. If you get offended by something, fine, that's your problem but don't expect me or anyone else to do anything about it.

 

I'm not against being decent and trying to be fair towards each other but people really do need to toughen up.


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#8

Posted 03 February 2014 - 01:37 PM

Considering the inequality occurring around the globe, I think it's fair enough to get offended. Just pick what you say with the right people, for example, I don't say things are 'gay' when i'm with my homosexual uncle because it might be offensive.
Just like when i'm around women I don't make jokes about all women being sluts.

People can't really help being offended, it's a personality trait that can't easily be changed, so just suck it up and choose your words.

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#9

Posted 03 February 2014 - 03:28 PM

Anyway, I am completely against censorship and believe in actual free speech - not the bullsh*t free speech we allegedly have where we can say what we want as long as it doesn't break the law or offend someone. I don't see why anyone has the right to tell me what I can and cannot say to people. If you get offended by something, fine, that's your problem but don't expect me or anyone else to do anything about it.

The problem with this idea is that it's very hard to determine when something goes from simply being an expression of an opinion or view to actively instigating harm on someone. If you're free to express opinions without restriction then does that mean you're also free to act in a way that discriminates against people, because hey, action is a form of expression? Does it mean that an Islamist cleric who calls on Jews and Christians to be murdered, and this call is answered by radicals, the cleric cannot be found accountable for the violence he called for?

There's no such thing as true freedom of speech. Caveats must always exist for examples where expression is inexorably linked to acts of criminality against others. Otherwise criminal plots, conspiracies and planned acts of terror become expressions protected as a freedom right up to the moment the trigger is pulled or the bomb goes off.
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DeafMetal
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#10

Posted 03 February 2014 - 04:36 PM

So what exactly are people who represent the disadvantaged supposed to do? Just wait a few hundred years to reach equality so that you can enjoy making offensive jokes and calling people fags in the meantime?

 

That Cracked article seemed totally fair. Who cares if he's played by a black actor? What possible objection to the change could they have that doesn't boil down to "I enjoy the character more as a white man"?

 

If anything, sensitivity hasn't gone far enough, and you're more or less proving that point. The unprivileged members of our society (basically everyone who isn't a straight, able bodied white male) are so far away from being equal it's enough to make you sick and any attempt people make to draw attention to this and make some real, tangible progress is met with "oh my god, this is political correctness gone mad!"

 

Pretty much every single white male I know is convinced that we live in a perfectly equal society, that racism and misogyny are just horseplay and that the entire social justice movement is the result of people "reading into things too much." I find it very troubling and I think we need to be doing a lot more; I think we should sit kids down in school and drill it into their heads that we live in an unequal society and that it's wrong. 

Hello, disadvantaged person here. I'm a brown immigrant. i.e., the kind of people politicians just loooovee to scapegoat. While the country is not exactly a perfect utopia of equality, it's not some sort of hell for anyone but white males; that's just plain fiction. Very very very rarely have I ever felt left out because of the color of my skin by anyone. Are there people who would do it? Hell yeah. Are they the vast majority of the evil white male devils? No. No they're not. That's a stereotype; you don't fight intolerance with intolerance. You can't vanquish ignorance with ignorance.

 

How is the article fair, exactly? You can't not like a change in a character because you're automatically racist? That's a pretty broad statement. So -- if you don't like what a director, who happens to be a female, does to a movie adaption of a book, then you're sexist? See how that's stupid? It's basically just "you don't agree with me, therefore, you're a bigot." You know what happened when fans heard that Will Smith was called to play Superman? They bitched. You know what happened when Nicholas Cage, a white male devil, was called to play Superman? They bitched. It's not about some social justice conspiracy, it's about not changing a character for the sake of changing a character, especially iconic characters. That and comic book fans will bitch about anything being different than the comics.

 

The world isn't perfect. The country isn't perfect. There is certainly room for improvement in terms of fulfilling the clause of "all men [yes, this includes women, it's a figure of speech] are created equal." However, such a thing is not achieved through bullying, through hatred, through fear. Such a thing is achieved through love and mutual understanding. You and others with the PC movement stereotyping people is not doing anyone any favors; it is making those people who you stereotype rally in defense, and thus feeding into this whole sh*tstorm. You are drawing lines on the floor when you should be erasing them. You are creating separations between classes of people when you should be breaking down those foundations.

To create an environment in which race, gender, etc. are not an issue, then there needs to be a certain amount of blindness to such things. Kids need not be taught that they should treat their black classmate this way as to not offend her. They don't need to be taught that they need to treat their homosexual classmate this certain way as to not offend him. They need to be taught to treat others exactly the same way. They need to be taught to not see color, race, nationality, sexual orientation, sex, etc. They need to be taught to treat others the way they want to be treated; not treat them like the Second Coming, not to apologize for things their ancestors did, for things politicians are doing, for this or for that. They need to be taught to be blind. THAT is how you end inequality.

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EphemeralStar
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#11

Posted 03 February 2014 - 04:58 PM Edited by EphemeralStar, 03 February 2014 - 04:59 PM.

You know what pisses me off? "WARNING: TRIGGER WARNING" What the f*ck? It's especially common on Tumblr that people are expected to warn people or tag posts that there is something that could potentially be a trigger that may upset some people. I've seen it on rape posts to even crap like feminism-related things which shouldn't in my opinion AT ALL have "trigger" warning posts. I've seen people go at others for not thinking to warn people of posts that may be upsetting and I've been told to not tag my negativity towards how butt-ugly Benedict Cumberbatch so I don't upset his fans on Tumblr, on MY own blog. 

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#12

Posted 03 February 2014 - 05:01 PM

Dickheads are crying out of sensitivity, because it feels soooo goooood!

 

Just like when i'm around women I don't make jokes about all women being sluts.

But around "men" You do? HAHAHA!


Eris
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#13

Posted 03 February 2014 - 05:10 PM

You know what pisses me off? "WARNING: TRIGGER WARNING" What the f*ck? It's especially common on Tumblr that people are expected to warn people or tag posts that there is something that could potentially be a trigger that may upset some people. I've seen it on rape posts to even crap like feminism-related things which shouldn't in my opinion AT ALL have "trigger" warning posts. I've seen people go at others for not thinking to warn people of posts that may be upsetting and I've been told to not tag my negativity towards how butt-ugly Benedict Cumberbatch so I don't upset his fans on Tumblr, on MY own blog. 

Trigger warnings are (or I guess, were) a legitimate thing to warn people with PTSD of something that might cause flashbacks or something like that, but now they've just became something to post before a picture of a hamburger so social justice warriors can feel outraged. It's pathetic. 

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Macsnowblind707
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#14

Posted 03 February 2014 - 06:41 PM

Common sense isn't very common. The being of understanding is to not understand. Its all in terms of usage.

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#15

Posted 03 February 2014 - 07:18 PM Edited by SoftTouch, 03 February 2014 - 07:18 PM.

Thought this was going about mouse sensitivity but what eva XD


DeafMetal
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#16

Posted 04 February 2014 - 12:33 AM

Thought this was going about mouse sensitivity but what eva XD

That's way too controversial.

 

@•¿F¡ññ4L¡ƒ£?•: Sorry man, overlooked your post. I think you have a point in terms of personal encounters. It's just plain good manners not to say something to someone that will offend them. However, what I'm talking about is people actively seeking out the content or expression of others and crying wolf. i.e., people seeking to censor things they don't agree with even if they are not the intended audience. For example: PETA. PETA goes after games with digital animals being killed. But PETA in general is not the target audience for the products they try to censor. PETA actively seeks out things that do not fall in line with their alleged beliefs and threaten or slander the creator with action if it is not changed. That's the kind of thing I'm talking about, not necessarily someone being a rude assmunch to people in a more minimized setting.


Melchior
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#17

Posted 04 February 2014 - 12:42 AM Edited by Melchior, 04 February 2014 - 12:44 AM.

Very very very rarely have I ever felt left out because of the color of my skin by anyone.

The plural of "anecdote" is not "data."

 

 

 

While the country is not exactly a perfect utopia of equality, it's not some sort of hell for anyone but white males; that's just plain fiction.

Strawman fallacy. Nobody is saying that life in unbearable for everyone who lacks privilege. Although, depending on where you live, it can be: I doubt it's very fun to be gay in a rural town. And good luck finding a job in sales, customer service, education or politics if you're in a wheel chair or have a missing limb.

 

Perhaps you should tell me why we should settle for anything but total equality?

 

 

 

Are they the vast majority of the evil white male devils? No. No they're not. That's a stereotype; you don't fight intolerance with intolerance. You can't vanquish ignorance with ignorance.

Perhaps you could point out where I've been intolerant or ignorant towards white males? I'm a white male myself, you know. There's a difference between saying that the dominant groups in our society maintain privilege at the expense of others and saying that straight white men are all evil and must be destroyed. 

 

Further, this is a non sequitur. "Sensitivity has gone too far because white guys are actually good people on an individual level" isn't a valid argument because your conclusion doesn't follow from your premise.

 

 

 

How is the article fair, exactly? You can't not like a change in a character because you're automatically racist? That's a pretty broad statement. So -- if you don't like what a director, who happens to be a female, does to a movie adaption of a book, then you're sexist? See how that's stupid? 

I do see how that's stupid, but it's false equivalence. It's not that they don't like his acting and he happens to be black, they're specifically against an African-American playing the character. Likely because they live vicariously through the white character (the human torch is the cool, flippant ladies man, yeah?) and having a black man play him ruins it. That, or having a minority inserted into a work that is close to their hearts makes them feel less attached to it.

 

Also, there's a broader trend in our society of not exactly favouring black leads in movies, unless they have soft, inoffensive faces with big, cute, flappy ears like Will Smith. 

 

 

 

However, such a thing is not achieved through bullying, through hatred, through fear.

Well, there's no hatred to speak of, but making people scared to say insensitive things is exactly what we want. The whole reason you can no longer run through the streets screaming homophobic slurs, complement women's butts in the workplace or openly suggest that blacks are criminals is because people were bullied and cajoled. You can't make an omelet without breaking a few legs; so what if a few otherwise nice chauvinists lose their careers? We live in a diverse society, keep your bigotry out of the public sphere if you want to stay there.

 

 

 

To create an environment in which race, gender, etc. are not an issue, then there needs to be a certain amount of blindness to such things. Kids need not be taught that they should treat their black classmate this way as to not offend her. They don't need to be taught that they need to treat their homosexual classmate this certain way as to not offend him. They need to be taught to treat others exactly the same way. They need to be taught to not see color, race, nationality, sexual orientation, sex, etc. They need to be taught to treat others the way they want to be treated; not treat them like the Second Coming, not to apologize for things their ancestors did, for things politicians are doing, for this or for that. They need to be taught to be blind. THAT is how you end inequality.

Amazing. We can achieve equality by pretending we're already equal! And what impression are kids going to get when they see that prisons are full of blacks and universities are full of whites, that the uppers echelons of the corporate and political worlds are made up straight, white men while everybody tells them they're all equal and have the same opportunities? They'll think being white, and being male to be inherently superior. 


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#18

Posted 04 February 2014 - 12:44 AM

Political correctness can go suck a fat dick.  If I want to joke around and call somebody a retard or a fag then I'll do it.  Maybe my stupid teachers won't like it, but that is too f*cking bad, because personally, I don't give a flying f*ck.


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#19

Posted 04 February 2014 - 12:49 AM

This came to mind as I gazed through the title.

 


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#20

Posted 04 February 2014 - 12:56 AM

Trigger warnings are (or I guess, were) a legitimate thing to warn people with PTSD of something that might cause flashbacks or something like that, but now they've just became something to post before a picture of a hamburger so social justice warriors can feel outraged. It's pathetic. 

I don't know where you got that impression. "Triggering" (king of a nebulous concept, admittedly) is a bit broader than that, and outside of rape victims and veterans it mostly has to do with the feeling former self-harmers, bulimics or anorexics (or their friends and family) get when they see images relating to their experience. 

 

Also, it's their prerogative whether they want to put up a warning or not, let them be the judge of whether what they write will be upsetting to people. I have no idea why you're so offended by what I find to be a helpful, respectful practise. Maybe you're a contrarian. 


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#21

Posted 04 February 2014 - 01:07 AM Edited by Nipperkins, 04 February 2014 - 01:07 AM.

 

Trigger warnings are (or I guess, were) a legitimate thing to warn people with PTSD of something that might cause flashbacks or something like that, but now they've just became something to post before a picture of a hamburger so social justice warriors can feel outraged. It's pathetic. 

I don't know where you got that impression. "Triggering" (king of a nebulous concept, admittedly) is a bit broader than that, and outside of rape victims and veterans it mostly has to do with the feeling former self-harmers, bulimics or anorexics (or their friends and family) get when they see images relating to their experience. 

 

Also, it's their prerogative whether they want to put up a warning or not, let them be the judge of whether what they write will be upsetting to people. I have no idea why you're so offended by what I find to be a helpful, respectful practise. Maybe you're a contrarian. 

 

Semantics


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#22

Posted 04 February 2014 - 01:11 AM Edited by Melchior, 04 February 2014 - 01:11 AM.

You don't appear to know what that word means. But nice deflection.


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#23

Posted 04 February 2014 - 01:18 AM

You were arguing semantics. 

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#24

Posted 04 February 2014 - 01:24 AM

If anything, sensitivity hasn't gone far enough, and you're more or less proving that point. The unprivileged members of our society (basically everyone who isn't a straight, able bodied white male)

Just to add to this, the younger generation that is crusading for social justice seems to focus on the minorities that are so integrated into American culture that there is almost no prejudice or racism against them. However, Middle Eastern, Indian and Asian (less so) immigrants seem to really be picking up the hate the hispanics and blacks used to get, and the "college aged kids" wouldn't mind a having a laugh or two about Sameer at the local 7/11.

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Finn 7 five 11
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#25

Posted 04 February 2014 - 03:28 AM

Dickheads are crying out of sensitivity, because it feels soooo goooood!
 


Just like when i'm around women I don't make jokes about all women being sluts.

But around "men" You do? HAHAHA!

Haha nah, just an example.

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#26

Posted 04 February 2014 - 04:02 AM Edited by EphemeralStar, 04 February 2014 - 04:08 AM.

 

Trigger warnings are (or I guess, were) a legitimate thing to warn people with PTSD of something that might cause flashbacks or something like that, but now they've just became something to post before a picture of a hamburger so social justice warriors can feel outraged. It's pathetic. 

I don't know where you got that impression. "Triggering" (king of a nebulous concept, admittedly) is a bit broader than that, and outside of rape victims and veterans it mostly has to do with the feeling former self-harmers, bulimics or anorexics (or their friends and family) get when they see images relating to their experience. 

 

Also, it's their prerogative whether they want to put up a warning or not, let them be the judge of whether what they write will be upsetting to people. I have no idea why you're so offended by what I find to be a helpful, respectful practise. Maybe you're a contrarian. 

 

 

Even the smallest thing can bring up a horrible memory/experience for someone, doesn't mean we should make it the norm to warn people of every potential trigger before people go out and post something unless of course it is something really serious and intense such as rape or child abuse. However, you'd be better off not going on the internet if you're that likely to get upset by something you chose to read/watch online anyway. It's also not really a helpful and respectful practise when people are using it on every little thing nowadays and are starting to attack other people for not putting a trigger-warning on something that upset them.  <---Tumblr is the worst for this. 

 

P.S. I would f*cking love for Michael B. Jordan to be the human torch, I love him.


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#27

Posted 04 February 2014 - 04:19 AM Edited by Melchior, 04 February 2014 - 04:19 AM.

You were arguing semantics. 

No, you made a claim and I said something to the contrary. You said it's being used frivolously when it should only be used to warn PTSD sufferers, but that isn't the point at all, and never was.


Eris
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#28

Posted 04 February 2014 - 01:38 PM

 

You were arguing semantics. 

No, you made a claim and I said something to the contrary. You said it's being used frivolously when it should only be used to warn PTSD sufferers, but that isn't the point at all, and never was.

 

This is what I said.

 

Trigger warnings are (or I guess, were) a legitimate thing to warn people with PTSD of something that might cause flashbacks or something like that, but now they've just became something to post before a picture of a hamburger so social justice warriors can feel outraged. It's pathetic.

 

It wasn't exactly Shakespearean, but you should have been able to tell that what I was saying was pretty much the same thing as you. 





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