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Do you think 'non-educational games/media' can be educational?

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WinterEdit
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#1

Posted 19 January 2014 - 06:58 PM

Disclaimer: I did not search for a similar thread now. 

Now I am become troll, destroyer of forums.*

But if there has been one, it's long gone now and I would be accused of necrobumping...

 

So do I really need to do that every time I make a thread? I do? Okay.

Anyways... I didn't put this in "Gaming" section because even though the major focus is on games, other stuff like movies are in this subject too. Also this doesn't really focus on games themselves but rather their effects on people, so you can freely leave if you were going to say "but ur talking about games bruh, u no respect the rules lol get outta here". :p

 

Okay, let's begin shall we. Do you think games/movies/series that are considered non-educative (such as games like GTA, Battlefield... or movies such as James Bond or other action movies... series like Lost, Prison Break or The Walking Dead) can be educative too?

 

I do think they can indeed be, and good at it too, even if it isn't their main purpose. For example, everyone here knows my splendid English, right? Well I guess it is because I have played multiple 15-18+ games and watched a lot of random movies/TV-series (namely Lost) when I was young... ish. Like 6+. As far as I know, no one else I know in real life has played/watched that much English stuff - subtitled to Finnish of course - as a child, resulting in me being a damn genius (for a non-native English speaker) in English language, lol.

 

Either way, I guess that if I had watched more series/movies with e.g. some sort of math being used in the plot when I was young, I would have been better at it too. You know, I'd be rewriting the Theory of Relativity by now.

 

Though, the possible side effects can occur too... making the child all crazy and making him run over pedestrians if he played too much GTA... but that isn't the main point here. But if you played with the kid, you could e.g. teach the chap about traffic rules safely in GTA or something. If you have American traffic rules in your country, that is.

 

So, how about you? Do you believe that even violent or for other reasons age-limited games or other media can be used as a tool of education? If so, why? If not, why not? I need reasoning, people.

 

*Bonus points for you if you know that quote. Although it is modified from it's original form to serve my purpose better.


Th3MaN1
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#2

Posted 19 January 2014 - 07:00 PM

Of course they can, but that if they reference past events that happened in real life. WW2 / Vietnam games?


WinterEdit
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#3

Posted 19 January 2014 - 07:04 PM Edited by WinterEdit, 19 January 2014 - 07:04 PM.

Of course they can, but that if they reference past events that happened in real life. WW2 / Vietnam games?

True, they could even be used to teach history in schools. Not trying to be sarcastic here, it could be a cool way to improve history lessons. Imagine the teacher go through a... well... CoD campaign (sorry, didn't have a better example) in class. It could ensure the class's focus on it, lol.


Black & White
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#4

Posted 19 January 2014 - 08:17 PM

Yes, those games are education but they also influence disturbing intelligence such as murdering someone or committing a robbery. People from France, Germany, Spain and even India have learned English from those games. They use the English language so therefore people are learning the language and pick up on those words.


Fireman
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#5

Posted 19 January 2014 - 10:13 PM Edited by Fireman, 20 January 2014 - 12:03 PM.

Everything you do is educational one way or another.

 

I learned how to use a gun and shoot innocent people!


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#6

Posted 19 January 2014 - 10:15 PM

Education requires you to actually think about the material and understand why something happens or makes sense. TV/Movies/Games don't give you that; you have to do that part on your own, and almost everyone doesn't do that unless it's spelled out for them by the show/movie/game, and it usually isn't with non-educational stuff.

 

With math and science you have to solve problems, and if a game is making you constantly solve technical problems it's not a very fun game. Movies and TV are incapable of interactivity.

 

I think they can be good at introducing topics, but not at actually teaching them.


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#7

Posted 20 January 2014 - 12:45 AM

I once said that, "Everything is an education, especially when you fail."
If I heard or read that, I don't remember.

Fireman
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#8

Posted 20 January 2014 - 12:18 PM Edited by Fireman, 20 January 2014 - 12:19 PM.

Education requires you to actually think about the material and understand why something happens or makes sense. TV/Movies/Games don't give you that; you have to do that part on your own, and almost everyone doesn't do that unless it's spelled out for them by the show/movie/game, and it usually isn't with non-educational stuff.

 

 

 

I think you're completely off here. If we take a look at most point-and-click games you usually find the formula item X + item Y = solution Z. Whatever the items are or whatever the solution is, you'll learn from it. That's how I "learned" how to make a catapult, with a rubber band and a twig.

 

I also think a lot people who play detective games, puzzle games or point-and-click adventures do think about why something happened and they do try to make sense of it, without people spelling it out. I spend days on trying to make sense out of the events that happened in the game Sanitarium (which definitely isn't there for educational purposes).

 

I taught myself English by watching television and playing video games. Mainly by television, because it had subtitles. Television is basically someone talking to you, but then it's:

1. An interesting story (thus you want to understand/follow it).

2. Provides it's own translation.

 

It certainly helped me a lot.


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#9

Posted 20 January 2014 - 12:38 PM Edited by Osho, 20 January 2014 - 12:49 PM.

The games specifically GTA and Battlefield, NO.

 

It occurs to me, there are far better choices than hardcore (pure fun and shooter adventure types) games to serve any educational purpose. You may find some useful ideas from these genre of games, but than why are they sold, keeping in view, the mature audiences? It's clearly not suitable when you can easily pick several other titles that tone down significantly the 'distractions'.

 

What I do find it funny, how people actually think like playing GTA or COD games in an educational mode?


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#10

Posted 20 January 2014 - 12:50 PM Edited by Dr. John, 20 January 2014 - 12:51 PM.

Scientists have proven that people get more in their brains when they watch some action movies than to just study some textbooks.

 

Entertainment has manipulated our brains. If only people can start producing some more "indirect" references or acts where people get some more knowledge about the world, well then it will be a glory to the humanity.

 

We also love to hear musics and remember their lyrics. It could also be fun to memorize some damn boring history chapter in a form of rap or rock. Just imagine what we could create with World War's story. :p


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#11

Posted 20 January 2014 - 12:51 PM Edited by Vlynor, 20 January 2014 - 12:53 PM.

Sure, games can be educational. Some can teach history (think Red Orchestra, Age of Empires, Vicky II) some can teach fiscal responsibility (Sims games, MMOs when they have unregulated commerce/player run economies), and some can teach morals (Skyrim, Fallout, etc.) I think games can be a great teacher for broad subjects, with the right students.

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#12

Posted 20 January 2014 - 01:28 PM Edited by AceKingston, 20 January 2014 - 01:43 PM.

Yes, games can be of some education. Look at Assassins Creed for instance. And Fallout 3 has given me a good idea of what might have happen if we run out of natural resources.
 
I know it sounds weird, but writing GTA Fanfiction has helped me improve my writing. So in a way GTA has been of use to me too.
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#13

Posted 20 January 2014 - 01:44 PM

I learned the concept of stick shifting via Forza and maybe a tiny bit of Gran Turismo. I wont be entirely lost whenever I try driving with a manual gearbox for the first time.

And playing simulators at a young age taught me you can't drive fast all of the time like an idiot yet not crash.

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#14

Posted 20 January 2014 - 03:20 PM

Yes, I started to learn English with GTA.

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#15

Posted 20 January 2014 - 05:19 PM

Every art form is an educational experience to the human conception and the opinions of the art form.

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Black & White
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#16

Posted 20 January 2014 - 06:01 PM

Not to forget the Assassin's Creed game portrays murder and violence, but the game also has a huge stack of history from the 1800s and important figures such as George Washington and American Military generals. To be honest, I believe children should be taught this way. Far more children are auditory learners and are more appealed to color and interesting moments which are often seen in video games.


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#17

Posted 21 January 2014 - 04:45 AM

Yes....explained by science.

 

http://www.ted.com/t...ideo_games.html

 

http://www.ted.com/t...tter_world.html

 

Go watch...OH!!!


Finn 7 five 11
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#18

Posted 21 January 2014 - 05:47 AM

Education requires you to actually think about the material and understand why something happens or makes sense. TV/Movies/Games don't give you that; you have to do that part on your own, and almost everyone doesn't do that unless it's spelled out for them by the show/movie/game, and it usually isn't with non-educational stuff.
 
With math and science you have to solve problems, and if a game is making you constantly solve technical problems it's not a very fun game. Movies and TV are incapable of interactivity.
 
I think they can be good at introducing topics, but not at actually teaching them.


I disagree, you can quite easily passively learn from television and movies and such. Minimal thought required.

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#19

Posted 21 January 2014 - 06:28 AM Edited by Osho, 21 January 2014 - 06:31 AM.

Games of today easily makes an impact on the minds who play them esp. the little you have experienced them, the fast it absorbs you. Basically, educational opportunities are plenty for those who are new or are at the beginning stage.
 
As maturity develops within you start to even understand (be expressive about) the good or bad things shown in the games. An easy example: By the Book mission. But, it only helps, who realise it in the first place, what's going on.
 
Weaker minds, nervous or disappointed may picture to what brings in more negativity because they don't realise the ramifications of these in reality, if practiced.
 
That's why it's better to choose games that improve your thinking in a positive way. For example: Strategy Games.
 
Games that require the player to think, make decisions, realise the mistakes or general awareness of his past decisions on the outcome. As such, they slowly start to apply these in real world situations as well. For Example: GTA Forums. Members actively participate in discussing the characters, story and their likes/dislikes about after constant playthroughs.
 
In addition, as stated above, picking the controllers for playing a race improves hand and eye coordination, in the same way, it takes to manoeuvre mouse around the screen.
 
Most importantly, video games also helps to open up imagination, and to a certain degree it improves memorization.
 
As long as we pick the right games, that put the importance on mental skills, develop positive attitude in keeping the perspective of the reality and not deliberately push it to cheap pleasure or entertainment (if one is not aware) then every way serve the purpose of educating any one of any age.

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#20

Posted 21 January 2014 - 06:39 AM Edited by WhatsStrength, 21 January 2014 - 06:39 AM.

Absolutely. Maybe not educational enough to get you through Discrete Mathematics, but some media can provide interesting tidbits of random knowledge. I've built my vocabulary almost exclusively through media like games and movies.

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DeafMetal
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#21

Posted 21 January 2014 - 06:46 AM Edited by DeafMetal, 21 January 2014 - 06:48 AM.

When I lived in Mexico when I was a kid, the stuff on TV was basically 80s and 90s sh*t mixed up, and any new shows out there were really outdated. But when I came to the US, it was like f*cking Charlie and the Chocolate Factory with these awesome shows. I spent every waking minute outside of school/homework in front of the TV watching cartoons. In about a year, I had learned enough English to have me moved from Bilingual classes to regular ones. I'd put that achievement at 80% TV, 20% school.

 

Not really as impressive as the others, but during middle school, I learned so much sh*t-talking from GTA games that nobody f*cked with me lol Every asshole would wanna joke around with me cause I'd always throw some crude -ass comeback to them and they were too young to come up with something meaningful in return. That and beating up one of the main bullies in the school basically gave me a drama-free, fun as f*ck education career all the way till the end of high school.

 

I had a college reading level in middle school but I had never read a book in my entire life that wasn't like 20 pages (an even those were like 4 lol). What I did do is play Elder Scrolls and strategy games like obsessively. They REALLY helped to expand my vocabulary and reading comprehension. Every day I'd see a word I'd never heard of, so I'd look it up to understand what was going on in the story/what the game was telling me to do. Also, you gotta take into account that English isn't my native language, so f*cking Elder Scrolls pulled a miracle.

 

I got a 3 (out of 5) in a Ancient/Medieval European History AP exam based only on my addiction to Age of Empires 1 & 2. I literally did nothing in that class except make fun of people with my best friend. I bullsh*t the homework and my final project for the class was basically stand-up lol But I got a 3 on the test, which ended up me bailing out of 2 classes in college, saving me about $4k and 5 months of my life.

 

I'd be a completely different person if it weren't for cartoons/video games. And $4k short too lol and a semester older when I graduate.

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#22

Posted 21 January 2014 - 06:52 AM

Every day I'd see a word I'd never heard of, so I'd look it up to understand what was going on in the story/what the game was telling me to do.

I still do that, it's fun for me to discover the meanings of new words.


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#23

Posted 21 January 2014 - 10:44 AM Edited by AceKingston, 21 January 2014 - 10:52 AM.

Education requires you to actually think about the material and understand why something happens or makes sense. TV/Movies/Games don't give you that; you have to do that part on your own, and almost everyone doesn't do that unless it's spelled out for them by the show/movie/game, and it usually isn't with non-educational stuff.


I disagree.

You can actually learn from Movies/Games/TV shows.

Like I said before they can be a source of inspiration for writing. Assassins Creed taught me a decent bit of history and fallout does well in explaining what could happen if we run out of natural resources.

Movies are another great resource for writing, because watching movies helps you to picture your scene (while writing) better.

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#24

Posted 21 January 2014 - 01:07 PM

 

Every day I'd see a word I'd never heard of, so I'd look it up to understand what was going on in the story/what the game was telling me to do.

I still do that, it's fun for me to discover the meanings of new words.

 

 

Have you been informed about the tallywacker? 


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#25

Posted 21 January 2014 - 01:12 PM

I've been wracking my brains to think of anything which gaming has taught me exclusively. On many issues games provide a useful practical exercise in morals/fiscal responsibility etc which we should have been taught by other means, but rarely is gaming itself the sole educator.

 

One thing I know I only learned through playing GTA is to steer into the spin when your car spins out of control.


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#26

Posted 21 January 2014 - 01:12 PM

Movies and video games aren't going to give you a fraction of the knowledge that you would get if you actually took the time to learn about the subject people. You aren't going to gain anything meaning full by stabbing people in Assassin's Creed compared to reading a book or watching a documentary. 

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#27

Posted 21 January 2014 - 01:13 PM

I don't think you can learn much from a game. Sometimes a game that has some basis in a real world concept can inspire you to go research that on your own, though.


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#28

Posted 21 January 2014 - 01:48 PM Edited by AceKingston, 21 January 2014 - 01:49 PM.

Movies and video games aren't going to give you a fraction of the knowledge that you would get if you actually took the time to learn about the subject people. You aren't going to gain anything meaning full by stabbing people in Assassin's Creed compared to reading a book or watching a documentary. 

 

Disagreed.

 

Assassins creed taught me a bit of history.

 

Fallout 3 gave me a good idea of what could happen if we ran out of resources. (I have already said about these two)

 

The storyline in GTA has inspired me to write GTA-Fanfiction which is useful for improving your writing.

 

Simulator games like Flight Simulator are actually used by pilots.

 

Far Cry 3 also gives some information about weapons. Same goes for other FPS games.

 

And so on.


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#29

Posted 21 January 2014 - 02:10 PM

Movies and video games aren't going to give you a fraction of the knowledge that you would get if you actually took the time to learn about the subject people. You aren't going to gain anything meaning full by stabbing people in Assassin's Creed compared to reading a book or watching a documentary. 

 

I don't think you can learn much from a game. Sometimes a game that has some basis in a real world concept can inspire you to go research that on your own, though.

I really think you both never played any video games in your lives. How can you say video games have not taught us anything? It helped me improve my decision making, quick analysis of my environment and has made my hands very agile.

 

I can point out some VERY educational games which are fun at the same time:

- Assassin's Creed Series (History from your own eyes in a virtual world)

- GTA Series (You can't play this game without having a look at the cities and countrysides which do represent the modern world's places)

 

These games also teach you the essence of patience by putting up some 10 minutes loading screens.


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#30

Posted 21 January 2014 - 02:12 PM

Yeah, each of these games can give you bits of information. But as Nipperkins said, they can't teach you much on their own.

 

They have nothing on actual studying. For example, I am a fan of the Assassins Creed franchise, from that game a gained a little knowledge of Florentine history and architecture...fast forward a few years and my Final year University Specialist subject is Renaissance Florence and I write my dissertation on Florentine Mercenary Warfare. Of my accumulated Knowledge of Florence, I would say AC contributed 0.5%. 

 

But, as I said, games can offer opportunities to practice knowledge which you should have gained through other educational methods. In the AC example it gave me a chance to walk around a surprisingly geographically accurate version of Renaissance Florence. 





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