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Why pick a fight with a kill?

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killa_b
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#91

Posted 07 January 2014 - 04:43 PM Edited by killa_b, 07 January 2014 - 05:05 PM.

 

If everyone waited until the wait until somebody attacked you principal, there would be no killing at all! As discussed to great length before (how many threads do we need!), killing somebody is a staple in GTA. Now its not the only one, afterall the game is a sandbox, you're free to do what you want. 

 

This thread should just be pinned because there is too many too similar to this one. Friendly fire is constantly put forward as a valid solution (which I am all for). If the friendly fire guys want to tell the other player they want to kill them, have a deathmatch or join the PvP lobby.

To suggest nobody would ever fight if everybody avoided first strike is too optimistic I believe.  In my own experience, I'm attacked nearing any player pretty much without fail.

In the spirit of this thread, for skilled players who seek a challenge and not a simple revenge melee or a quick K/D point, I wonder if beginning a fight with a kill is the best course of action.  It's been stated in this thread it's most efficient to start a fight with bullets, this maybe true when amount of fights or quantity over quality is the goal, but it's ineffective if the desire is for a good skill strengthening fight in my view.

I'm not in the friendly fire off camp, even though it existed in the last iteration and many have campaigned for it, for me, it would ruin the pseudo realism.  I've campaigned for a resignation of passive mode as well for the same reason.

 

With reference to your first point, you misunderstand. I am merely stating the apparent philosophy or code of conduct that some of my fellow gta players on this forum abide by. If K/D is not important to the skilled player then why worry that you been killed in the first place? Your argument is about skill, not simple point scoring. Irregardless of being killed in your PV or a heli or something that has taken some time to obtain, my point is why be upset if he/she is 0-1?

 

Going up to someone in a car or loitering around someone whilst not bothering to communicate will certainly make the other guy suspicious. In my opinion it is understandable if the other guy has an itchy trigger finger.

 

I'm in favour of a friendly fire server because I believe the current lobby caters for the average GTA player. Changing this system will hurt the game in my opinion.

 

You strive for pseudo realistic game as myself and many other players on here of that i'm sure. Are cheap kills not realistic?


beat_savy_9
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#92

Posted 07 January 2014 - 05:31 PM

With reference to your first point, you misunderstand. I am merely stating the apparent philosophy or code of conduct that some of my fellow gta players on this forum abide by. If K/D is not important to the skilled player then why worry that you been killed in the first place? You're argument is about skill, not simple point scoring. Irregardless of being killed in your PV or a heli or something that has taken some time to obtain, my point is why be upset if he/she is 1-0?

 

Going up to someone in a car or loitering around someone whilst not bothering to communicate will certainly make the other guy suspicious. In my opinion it is understandable if the other guy has an itchy trigger finger.

 

I'm in favour of a friendly fire server because I believe the current lobby caters for the average GTA player. Changing this system will hurt the game in my opinion.

 

You strive for pseudo realistic game as myself and many other players on here of that i'm sure. Are cheap kills not realistic?

 

I agree, a 1-0 should not matter to someone who is disinterested in maintaining a certain k/d, but, assuming they were somewhat concerned with k/d, is that enough justification to start fights with a kill if the initiating player possesses the skills to easily rectify a temporary imbalance?

Silent loitering is immensely provocative and can be all that is required to spark combat, I endorse this although, I'd prefer a less subtle yet not too overt, as in the hello kill approach. Maybe a short text would suffice.

I believe having a friendly fire off server would have a deleterious effect on the game.  On the other hand, tweaking the system to accommodate more casual players in a realistic way would enhance the experience in my opinion.

I like cheap thrills, the cheaper the better :)


austintrain
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#93

Posted 07 January 2014 - 05:53 PM


Wait until someone attacks you first, should take around 30 seconds

I only kill people when they kill me first, then I dont feel the least bit bad when I blow up their pv and kill them over and over

Yeah, this about sums it up for me. I do my own thing 99% of the time. The other 1% is spent hunting down cowards who kill me and then run away to the other side of the map thinking I won't chase them. I do. 

they're not cowards.

they do it because:

a) it's funny
b) they want you to chase them

killa_b
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#94

Posted 07 January 2014 - 05:56 PM Edited by killa_b, 07 January 2014 - 06:00 PM.

 

With reference to your first point, you misunderstand. I am merely stating the apparent philosophy or code of conduct that some of my fellow gta players on this forum abide by. If K/D is not important to the skilled player then why worry that you been killed in the first place? You're argument is about skill, not simple point scoring. Irregardless of being killed in your PV or a heli or something that has taken some time to obtain, my point is why be upset if he/she is 1-0?

 

Going up to someone in a car or loitering around someone whilst not bothering to communicate will certainly make the other guy suspicious. In my opinion it is understandable if the other guy has an itchy trigger finger.

 

I'm in favour of a friendly fire server because I believe the current lobby caters for the average GTA player. Changing this system will hurt the game in my opinion.

 

You strive for pseudo realistic game as myself and many other players on here of that i'm sure. Are cheap kills not realistic?

 

I agree, a 1-0 should not matter to someone who is disinterested in maintaining a certain k/d, but, assuming they were somewhat concerned with k/d, is that enough justification to start fights with a kill if the initiating player possesses the skills to easily rectify a temporary imbalance?

This debate is going nowhere. People are beginning to talk in circles. I didn't think skilled players worry about k/d at all (you only have to look at the many many threads on here) but based on the assumption that they do, I believe the option to request a one on one deathmatch with any player on the server would suffice. This is already utilized as a revenge option when you die so expanding it to anytime (player contact on your phone?) would be relatively simple.

 

"I believe having a friendly fire off server would have a deleterious effect on the game."

 

I think its more of a case that the friendly fire servers would just be less popular than the current one. They would get an increase from the people who soley use invite only/solo sessions. How would it make the current system worse?

 

"On the other hand, tweaking the system to accommodate more casual players in a realistic way would enhance the experience in my opinion."

 

I'm all ears...


beat_savy_9
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#95

Posted 07 January 2014 - 07:43 PM

...I believe the option to request a one on one deathmatch with any player on the server would suffice. This is already utilized as a revenge option when you die so expanding it to anytime (player contact on your phone?) would be relatively simple.

 

"I believe having a friendly fire off server would have a deleterious effect on the game."

 

I think its more of a case that the friendly fire servers would just be less popular than the current one. They would get an increase from the people who soley use invite only/solo sessions. How would it make the current system worse?

 

"On the other hand, tweaking the system to accommodate more casual players in a realistic way would enhance the experience in my opinion."

 

I'm all ears...

 

I really like the expansion of 1 on 1 preemptive death match option in free roam.  It really could facilitate this thread's essence. thank you.

Making a separate server would further dilute the population as many have already pointed out. I am in agreement with those people.

Realistic options for non combatants, attack an unarmed player, suffer dire consequences, not only would this protect casual players readily, it would at the same time discourage spawn killing.  It also would not prevent trolling or griefing as the player can still be attacked, it would just require the attacking player to utilize advanced skill to be successful.

Retire passive mode as it is, make passive mode simply an indicator to the lobby that a player is not in a combative mood.  If attacked, severe consequences including maybe bad sports points.  Passive mode players would not be defenseless however, and retaliation to a 1-0 encounter could w/o consequence, disengage passive mode and allow for justifiable retribution.  Obviously, to discourage abuse, when in passive mode, if player attacks, same severe consequences would apply to them.

Another poster in another thread suggested, and I concurred, that to also avoid abuse, passive mode should be a before entering server option, not something that can be easily changed dynamically.

Requiring griefers to play smarter and harder does not strike me as a bad idea, although, surely lazy griefers will protest, but, to invite many more players into the arena who are at this moment disenfranchised would satisfy more then it would anger in my opinion.


elless777
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#96

Posted 07 January 2014 - 07:48 PM

Pointless thread.

 

It will only serve to wind people up or have the players replying to it, wind each other up. Just play the game and find out for yourself.


scubadave
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#97

Posted 07 January 2014 - 07:57 PM

you should study game theory, the same thing we talked about in the nuke discussion thread:

 

http://gtaforums.com/topic/670466-nuke-discussion/

 

 

only its opposite because of the level of destruction. basically there are only a set # of outcomes for any encounter, probably 3 or 4 here. in every situation from a numbers point of view (RP, K/D, $$, etc.) it is advantageous to kill first ask later. and since GTA players evolve, all players naturally go towards that rather than away from that (more peaceful). that doesnt take into account friends and crews and wanting to do other stuff like car meets and stuff.


killa_b
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#98

Posted 07 January 2014 - 08:08 PM Edited by killa_b, 07 January 2014 - 08:10 PM.

Making a separate server would further dilute the population as many have already pointed out. I am in agreement with those people.

 

I agree, I want to play in full servers, more interaction. But if there are no alternatives. I didn't play GTA IV online but people seemed to be satisfied by it if by gauging the opinion of people on these forums is anything to go by.

 

Realistic options for non combatants, attack an unarmed player, suffer dire consequences, not only would this protect casual players readily, it would at the same time discourage spawn killing.  It also would not prevent trolling or griefing as the player can still be attacked, it would just require the attacking player to utilize advanced skill to be successful.

 

These can potentially be exploited and in my opinion would be heavily abused. Unarmed players? For how long, when did they last use the weapon? There is a quick select button to hold/pocket weapons. It would add more problems than solve.

Another poster in another thread suggested, and I concurred, that to also avoid abuse, passive mode should be a before entering server option, not something that can be easily changed dynamically.

 

Super idea, if they can't harm anyone or be harmed in any way possible that's fantastic. If they want to change, they are welcome to change session.

Requiring griefers to play smarter and harder does not strike me as a bad idea, although, surely lazy griefers will protest, but, to invite many more players into the arena who are at this moment disenfranchised would satisfy more then it would anger in my opinion.

 

Who mentioned griefing? I thought this thread was about the skill of a player to not get the first kill. I don't think that was the issue you took in your original post. To class griefing as simply killing a player to instigate a fight. Well let's just say that debate has been long exhausted.

 

I don't disagree that this thread should cease to exist, as I have said before, one needs to be pinned. I'm not here very long and this one and clones of this constantly arise from people being upset that they have been killed without provocation.

 


beat_savy_9
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#99

Posted 07 January 2014 - 08:10 PM

you should study game theory, the same thing we talked about in the nuke discussion thread:

 

http://gtaforums.com/topic/670466-nuke-discussion/

 

 

only its opposite because of the level of destruction. basically there are only a set # of outcomes for any encounter, probably 3 or 4 here. in every situation from a numbers point of view (RP, K/D, $$, etc.) it is advantageous to kill first ask later. and since GTA players evolve, all players naturally go towards that rather than away from that (more peaceful). that doesnt take into account friends and crews and wanting to do other stuff like car meets and stuff.

thank you, enlightening.


beat_savy_9
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#100

Posted 07 January 2014 - 08:27 PM Edited by beat_savy_9, 07 January 2014 - 08:30 PM.

 

Making a separate server would further dilute the population as many have already pointed out. I am in agreement with those people.

 

I agree, I want to play in full servers, more interaction. But if there are no alternatives. I didn't play GTA IV online but people seemed to be satisfied by it if by gauging the opinion of people on these forums is anything to go by.

 

Realistic options for non combatants, attack an unarmed player, suffer dire consequences, not only would this protect casual players readily, it would at the same time discourage spawn killing.  It also would not prevent trolling or griefing as the player can still be attacked, it would just require the attacking player to utilize advanced skill to be successful.

 

These can potentially be exploited and in my opinion would be heavily abused. Unarmed players? For how long, when did they last use the weapon? There is a quick select button to hold/pocket weapons. It would add more problems than solve.

Another poster in another thread suggested, and I concurred, that to also avoid abuse, passive mode should be a before entering server option, not something that can be easily changed dynamically.

 

Super idea, if they can't harm anyone or be harmed in any way possible that's fantastic. If they want to change, they are welcome to change session.

Requiring griefers to play smarter and harder does not strike me as a bad idea, although, surely lazy griefers will protest, but, to invite many more players into the arena who are at this moment disenfranchised would satisfy more then it would anger in my opinion.

 

Who mentioned griefing? I thought this thread was about the skill of a player to not get the first kill. I don't think that was the issue you took in your original post. To class griefing as simply killing a player to instigate a fight. Well let's just say that debate has been long exhausted.

 

I don't disagree that this thread should cease to exist, as I have said before, one needs to be pinned. I'm not here very long and this one and clones of this constantly arise from people being upset that they have been killed without provocation.

 

 

I recall the statement, "I'm all ears..." well, there's an ear full :)

No, I am not a champion of ghost mode, highly unrealistic, passive mode, same thing, stated by production itself.  

Unarmed players, example not carrying a weapon at the moment.

Passive mode as I envision it would be simply an indicator, player can take damage, bullets, everything, can inflict damage, bullets, everything, only difference, if attacked or attacks, there are consequences.

In response to (paraphrased) "this is just a whine thread like all the others, I hate being killed" negative, my intent on creating this thread was to investigate the motives or psyche of those players who are in fact skilled, can defend themselves, respect other styles of game play and are more or less indifferent to k/d yet, consider it appropriate to kill w/o provocation.

As to the mention of griefers or trolls, it is my understanding a griefer or a troll is a player who derives joy from spoiling another players fun.  The modifications presented accommodate that style of play and in my opinion enhance it.  This is why it was included in the presentation, not to focus attention to it, or label players who shoot first as griefers.


killa_b
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#101

Posted 07 January 2014 - 08:45 PM Edited by killa_b, 07 January 2014 - 08:49 PM.

"As to the mention of griefers or trolls, it is my understanding a griefer or a troll is a player who derives joy from spoiling another players fun."

 

Ok now I understand, so here is the crux of the matter,

 

Do you think instigating in killing a player in general is griefing??

 

You should make it a thread topic :)


beat_savy_9
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#102

Posted 07 January 2014 - 08:48 PM Edited by beat_savy_9, 07 January 2014 - 08:50 PM.

Do you think killing a player in general is griefing??

Nope, what's the point of PvP w/o killing? This is GTA Mutha Fuggas! :)


beat_savy_9
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#103

Posted 07 January 2014 - 08:58 PM Edited by beat_savy_9, 07 January 2014 - 09:01 PM.

Do you think instigating in killing a player in general is griefing??

ok, it reads differently now, but still, no, shoot away, I just think it is inefficient and unnecessary if the true intent is seeking a challenge. 


killa_b
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#104

Posted 07 January 2014 - 09:03 PM

Only edited it slighty to get a direct answer. People can twist words on here :) 


beat_savy_9
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#105

Posted 07 January 2014 - 09:05 PM

I can relate to that


blk95ta
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#106

Posted 07 January 2014 - 09:22 PM Edited by blk95ta, 07 January 2014 - 09:23 PM.

some asshole kiledl me today while i was sitting in a car wash losing the cops after robbing a store which caused my car to get impounded. i was seriously sitting there minding my own business and he walks up, sneaks around the corner and shoots me through the windshield. Seriously asshole? WTF is your problem? i called him every name in the book over the mic and proceeded to bounty him and mercenary him. I hate assholes who kill for no f*cking reason in free roam. 


ProblemChiild88
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#107

Posted 07 January 2014 - 09:34 PM

I'm that ass hole that picks fights with people and will kill you repeatedly.

However

I'm also that cool guy to drive around with and do crazy jumps off of random objects, ride around on BMX bikes etc. etc.

Really depends on my mood at the time lol.

I try to hunt out good players when I go on random killings, I like to see what kind of tactics they use. How many times they can kill me or catch up and kill me. Those are people I usually like to add to my friends list. Why would I want to add a bunch of garbage players. Good players are who I will want to invite to my TDM or mission or.....Heists whenever the hell that shows up.

CapoV91
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#108

Posted 07 January 2014 - 09:34 PM

Kill or be killed op this is grand theft auto not wow or whatever other mmos you play, your way overthinking it

brooklyn718
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#109

Posted 07 January 2014 - 10:20 PM

This question is for the players who are skill oriented and at the same time not interested in ruining another player's fun or whatever.  My question is, when looking for a fight, would it be better to start one with a microphone invite, or maybe approaching other players to see if they will attack first, instead of starting a fight with a sticky to the car, or a drive by?  I'm curious because if a player has skills, surely the initiating death does not matter as it will be avenged rapidly.  Is it because if the other player flees before kill is avenged it's considered a loss? Does it have something to do with pride? please enlighten, thank you.  


If and when i want to start sh*t, its always with whom ever is causing the most noise in the lobby (on the mic). I do get a kick at hearing them bitch a little. I also tend to kill a member of a group who is large in the lobby, because theyre sure to chase you...youll get a little fun out of that (IF youre skilled at the game)
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rob602pa
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#110

Posted 07 January 2014 - 11:00 PM

I think you progress. Go through stages like grieving and become the griefer.  

 

The Kübler-Ross model, commonly referred to as the five stages of grief, is a concept introduced by Elisabeth Kübler-Ross[1] and says that someone faced with the reality of impending death or other extreme, awful fate experiences a series of emotional stages:

  1. Denial-Did that guy just shoot me for nothing???
  2. Anger-MF'er!!!!!
  3. Bargaining-OK let's do this, time to even the score....
  4. Depression -I hate this game when someone owns me :-(
  5. Acceptance- Fine, if that's how it's gonna be I am killing the next jackass I see standing in the street or on pause!!!
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ProblemChiild88
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#111

Posted 08 January 2014 - 12:58 AM

LMAO


AdmiralAugustus
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#112

Posted 08 January 2014 - 01:07 AM

I show mercy to 95% of the population on this game. They mostly don't know how to fight back, and if they do they aren't very good at it. If they do insist on trying to come after me, I usually kill them until they're forced to get a tank.

 

In my experience, most of the people that play this game aren't very good when it comes to shootouts. And will RARELY accept an invite to the 10 minute, no scoreboard DM. It's sad state of affairs, really.


ProblemChiild88
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#113

Posted 08 January 2014 - 01:17 AM

I always ignore the 1V1 invites.

 

It changes nothing really and people can still intervene between you and the other player. Why 1V1 when its already me and you going at it throughout the city.


s1xty7
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#114

Posted 08 January 2014 - 01:19 AM

I hate free roam death matches because all it does is hide the blips around you except that player.  If it made it so no one else could interfere, then i'd accept more death match challenges.  No point in making both of you fish in a barrel.

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mastershake616
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#115

Posted 08 January 2014 - 01:40 AM

If you're a white dot, you're hostile. I'm not a proponent of killing for no reason, but that's just the way it is. 


tymaster50
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#116

Posted 08 January 2014 - 01:58 AM

No kill on me go unanswered, especially if I was posing no threat.

 

Like, if you kill me as I'm exiting a clothes store, for no reason you bet your ass you're getting spawn-killed into oblivion.  

 

If someone kills me when I have a bounty on my head, I'll kill them once and move on with my life.

She ain't bout this life. 


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#117

Posted 08 January 2014 - 02:48 AM

Who has time for talking to these people on a mic? You dont even know if they speak your language. Shoot first and ask questions later. If it works they will keep coming for you. Actions speak louder than words.


redkill160
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#118

Posted 08 January 2014 - 04:00 AM

 

 

killing someone with their back turned doesnt take skill and shouldnt be considered a fight starter

I totally agree, question is, why would a skilled player begin a fight with a kill w/o prior provocation?

 

Trolling usually. Bored high levels do this all the time. I see them coming in their adders and sticky bombs ready out the windur...here we go again.

 

your sig is a total mindf*ck :O


beat_savy_9
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#119

Posted 08 January 2014 - 04:57 AM

some asshole kiledl me today while i was sitting in a car wash losing the cops after robbing a store which caused my car to get impounded. i was seriously sitting there minding my own business and he walks up, sneaks around the corner and shoots me through the windshield. Seriously asshole? WTF is your problem? i called him every name in the book over the mic and proceeded to bounty him and mercenary him. I hate assholes who kill for no f*cking reason in free roam. 

player was making a citizen's arrest
valid :p


Kill or be killed op this is grand theft auto not wow or whatever other mmos you play, your way overthinking it

Perhaps I am

btw, I can tolerate this post's condescending tone, but accusing me of playing wow??? now that's just mean! :)


TeammateAssist
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#120

Posted 08 January 2014 - 04:57 AM

Maybe I should start killing again. I don't know.





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