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MTF are better then Tommy Vercetti

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Miamivicecity
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#61

Posted 08 January 2014 - 06:14 AM

 

 

When you think about it, the III era protags were really quite under-developed. Pretty shallow. Tommy was just a guy who tried to get rich, there's basically no story to Vice City, it's basically just an orgy of cocaine fueled money making. 

 

I disagree on so many levels.  

Victor Vance alone probably has more depth than any of the GTA protagonists.

 

Vic was worse than Niko lol He was basically the lovechildof CJ and Niko if they raised him to be flamboyant. He was pretty badass, but HE NEVER f*ckING WANTED TO DO ANYTHING ON EVERY SINGLE f*ckING MISSION lol Yet he always ended up doing it anyway. I mean, even Niko didn't protest at every freaking cutscene.

 

And I think a lot of you guys are missing the point: people like Tommy BECAUSE he wasn't sympathetic. He's a psycho and he knows he's a psycho, he kills because he WANTS to kill, he's not a hypocrite about it. Ofc, there's also the fact that he's voiced by Ray Liotta. The reason a lot of people, myself included, didn't like Niko, Vic, or CJ was because they would say one thing and then turn around and do the opposite and we were supposed to buy that. Characters like Tommy and Trevor, on the other hand, embrace that. They don't give a f*ck. Did I mention Ray Liotta?

 

 

Don't ever put the legendary Tommy V and Trevor in the sentence again or I'll be forced to make you my bitch...metal to the deaf.:).

 

Tommy was a pyscho, but he still had a certain charm about him that made him ooze with charisma and character.

 

Trevor on the other hand is a dirty, trailer trash, piece of sh*t. I really can't see what others see in him? I know R* said he was made to represent the average GTA player, but it makes me feel insulted lol.

 

I remember when he was revealed as the third protagonist. He wasn't very well liked until he was shown blowing up trains and whatnot.

 

I admit some of his dialogue is hilarious, but as a character I can't stand his loud, agitated and unsettled ways. It's a shame all of the good activities are Trevor exclusive as I don't think I'd use him anywhere near as much. I have to admit ending A gave me some deep seeded satisfaction.

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SmoothGetaway
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#62

Posted 08 January 2014 - 06:26 AM

Franklin and Mike are better, but Trevor?

Nah. You can't build a GTA character out of craziness no matter how much 'loyalty' or 'humor' you throw in. F was pretty loyal too, going to save Mike in a meat factory after all.

Tommy is ok, but nostalgia is playing a huge part here.

DeafMetal
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#63

Posted 08 January 2014 - 06:56 AM Edited by DeafMetal, 08 January 2014 - 06:58 AM.

 

 

 

When you think about it, the III era protags were really quite under-developed. Pretty shallow. Tommy was just a guy who tried to get rich, there's basically no story to Vice City, it's basically just an orgy of cocaine fueled money making. 

 

I disagree on so many levels.  

Victor Vance alone probably has more depth than any of the GTA protagonists.

 

Vic was worse than Niko lol He was basically the lovechildof CJ and Niko if they raised him to be flamboyant. He was pretty badass, but HE NEVER f*ckING WANTED TO DO ANYTHING ON EVERY SINGLE f*ckING MISSION lol Yet he always ended up doing it anyway. I mean, even Niko didn't protest at every freaking cutscene.

 

And I think a lot of you guys are missing the point: people like Tommy BECAUSE he wasn't sympathetic. He's a psycho and he knows he's a psycho, he kills because he WANTS to kill, he's not a hypocrite about it. Ofc, there's also the fact that he's voiced by Ray Liotta. The reason a lot of people, myself included, didn't like Niko, Vic, or CJ was because they would say one thing and then turn around and do the opposite and we were supposed to buy that. Characters like Tommy and Trevor, on the other hand, embrace that. They don't give a f*ck. Did I mention Ray Liotta?

 

 

Don't ever put the legendary Tommy V and Trevor in the sentence again or I'll be forced to make you my bitch...metal to the deaf. :).

I'm gonna tell MiamiViceCity to ban you, LC fanboy!!1

 

But yeah lol Tommy was consistently well-spoken and very... dunno how to put it... in control? Very commanding. Trevor was also very commanding but in a different way. Trevor commanded people's fear -- they helped him because they were terrified of him. Tommy commanded people's respect -- they helped him because they thought he knew what he was doing and ofc because of how charismatic he was. In a way, I feel Tommy is better than Trevor even though they're both psychos who boss people around because of that: Tommy is the kind of guy who people decide to follow, Tommy would fit in more as a general or tactician in a war, while Trevor would serve at most as a Drill Sergeant who can only scare people sh*tless but not truly lead.

 

It's easy to command people's fear. It's hard to command people's respect. That's why you see more Jack Thompsons than you do Martin Luther King Jrs. That's why the majority of people TRYING to be like MLK instead turn into assholes promoting censorship - because it's much easier to censor people by threatening, pointing fingers, and suing than it is to change their minds by treating them like human beings and having a logical, respectful discussion. That is why, as far as psychopaths are concerned, Tommy beats out Trevor: one takes the easy way, another takes the right way.

 

And Trevor is not a hillbilly, he's a hipster. Proto-hipster.

 

Tommy is ok, but nostalgia is playing a huge part here.

Eh, I wouldn't say it makes up too much of it. I thought CJ was a whinny hypocrite and Claude was a dumb mute.

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Miamivicecity
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#64

Posted 08 January 2014 - 07:07 AM


I'm gonna tell MiamiViceCity to ban you, LC fanboy!!1

 

 

I heard that guy has great hair.

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Zodape
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#65

Posted 08 January 2014 - 02:38 PM Edited by Zodape, 08 January 2014 - 02:39 PM.

Franklin and Mike are better, but Trevor?

Franklin and Mike are better

 

Franklin and Mike

 

FRANKLIN

 

 

 

204.gif

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Official General
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#66

Posted 08 January 2014 - 05:06 PM Edited by Official General, 08 January 2014 - 05:19 PM.

have to admit ending A gave me some deep seeded satisfaction.

 

@ Son Of Liberty

 

GTA V ending A. Best moment of the f**king game !!

 

@ SmoothGTA

 

 

Nah. You can't build a GTA character out of craziness no matter how much 'loyalty' or 'humor' you throw in

 

Indeed. That's just all Trevor represents, craziness and nothing more. To me, that's not impressive and not interesting. 


SmoothGetaway
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#67

Posted 08 January 2014 - 06:12 PM

@Zodape

Yep, Franklin is my second favorite protag right behind Niko.

Problem?

Zodape
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#68

Posted 08 January 2014 - 06:18 PM

@Zodape

Yep, Franklin is my second favorite protag right behind Niko.

Problem?

No problems, mate. We can disagree, which is perfectly fine.

 

I just wanted to use that .gif.

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greenrock
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#69

Posted 08 January 2014 - 06:21 PM

@Zodape

Yep, Franklin is my second favorite protag right behind Niko.

Problem?

yes franklin is worse then michael


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#70

Posted 08 January 2014 - 06:22 PM

 

 

Nah. You can't build a GTA character out of craziness no matter how much 'loyalty' or 'humor' you throw in

 

Indeed. That's just all Trevor represents, craziness and nothing more. To me, that's not impressive and not interesting. 

 

And CJ represented pussyness, but no one ever mentioned that. Trevor also had morale, way more than that horribly written twat.


Official General
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#71

Posted 08 January 2014 - 06:31 PM Edited by Official General, 08 January 2014 - 06:39 PM.

And CJ represented pussyness, but no one ever mentioned that. Trevor also had morale, way more than that horribly written twat.

 

CJ is a pussy ? Um, let's see....he becomes leader of his old gang, regroups them back together from being weak back to being strong again to fight the Ballas and win back their turf, he f*cks up the Loco drug syndicate, he helps the Triads go to war with the Mafia in Las Venturas, and he kills the corrupt cops like Officer Tennpenny that try to make his life a difficult hell. At the end of it all, he becomes a respected gang leader with a multi-million dollar crime and business empire. Yeah what a right pussy he was  :sarcasm:

 

Trevor had morale ? HA HA ! Don't make me laugh. He bullied and victimized Floyd into heists, who was a defenceless, normal working man who was not really into crime. Not only that, he makes predatory homosexual advances towards him. On top of that, he brutally kills him and his girlfriend for no reason other than he was told to leave their apartment. He even lied to his friend about killing his cousin Floyd. Yeah he has a ton of morals  :sarcasm:

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Bonnano
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#72

Posted 08 January 2014 - 06:35 PM

 

And CJ represented pussyness, but no one ever mentioned that. Trevor also had morale, way more than that horribly written twat.

 

CJ is a pussy ? Um, let's see....he becomes leader of his old gang, regroups them back together from being weak back to being strong again to fight the Ballas and win back their turf, he f*cks up the Loco drug syndicate, he helps the Triads go to war with the Mafia in Las Venturas, and he kills the corrupt cops like Officer Tennpenny that try to make his life a difficult hell. At the end of it all, he becomes a respected gang leader with a multi-million dollar crime and business empire. Yeah what a right pussy he was  :sarcasm:

 

Trevor had morale ? HA HA ! Don't make me laugh. He bullied and victimized Floyd into heists, who was a defenceless, normal working man who was really into crime. Not only that, he makes homosexual advances towards him. On top of that, he kills him and his girlfriend for no reason other than he was told to leave their apartment. Yeah he has a ton of morals  :sarcasm:

 

You are right on the Trevor part tbh.

 

But CJ is still cried when he had a glock pointed at his head, and when Tenpenny punched him in the gut, he whined too. There's much more too.


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#73

Posted 08 January 2014 - 06:38 PM

he kills him and his girlfriend for no reason

 

 

Even if Trevor is an asshole and ruined their lives, can you blame him for killing them at that moment? Floyd was ready to kill something with his knife aswell as Debra with a pistol.


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#74

Posted 08 January 2014 - 06:42 PM

Tommy was a fine character. Michael is as well. I'd say both are ahead of Trevor (Who appeals to the teenage would-be psychopath demographic) and Franklin, who is just utterly boring. Just my opinions, however.


Official General
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#75

Posted 08 January 2014 - 06:44 PM Edited by Official General, 08 January 2014 - 06:45 PM.

 

he kills him and his girlfriend for no reason

 

 

Even if Trevor is an asshole and ruined their lives, can you blame him for killing them at that moment? Floyd was ready to kill something with his knife aswell as Debra with a pistol.

 

 

Trevor bullied his way into their apartment, and he used violence, force and intimidation to make himself at home. Floyd and Debra finaslly had enough, told him to leave the apartment and he refused to leave - they had every valid right to defend their home and themselves armed with a weapon against a dangerous intruder, which Trevor basically was. 


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#76

Posted 08 January 2014 - 08:52 PM

I don't rate any of the three. Trevor was my favorite of the bunch. His opening missions and imposing himself on Floyd's pictured life were among the best elements of the game but ultimately went nowhere and were overshadowed by his pathetic antics towards Michael. Some may say he had a point. I say get the f*ck over it.

 

Trevor thrived in his beginning. I want to play as predatory criminals driven to back stab in order to survive. I expected that by three and ended up disappointed. Their predatory nature was probably what endeared me so much towards the likes of Vercetti, CJ and Johnny K; they were opportunists who didn't care who they had to step on to take over or get paid. Trevor was great... when he was up against his own kind for two, three missions. And I think if there were more of that, people would be much more receptive of him.

 

Who Trevor was up against is where they tripped up with him. Vercetti overthrew Diaz and became the undisputed king of Vice City. CJ ripped off Salvatore Leone and built a huge empire stretching all corners of San Andreas. Johnny made a *failed* play with the diamond money, intending to rip Ray Boccino all along. Therein lies their charm. Who did Trevor end up against? The likes of Floyd and Debra and the ten year old chip on his shoulder?


SmoothGetaway
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#77

Posted 08 January 2014 - 09:23 PM Edited by SmoothGetaway, 08 January 2014 - 09:25 PM.

@DeafMetal:

Regarding nostalgia, I'm not sure why you brought up CJ and Claude. Yeah they are 3 era protags as well but what I'm trying to say is Tommy and Vice City are kings of nostalgia.

Everything about that game was designed to trigger it, from the get go. The music, ScarFace inspired scenes, f*ckin Ray Liotta as our character. I think the majority of people haven't played it in years, and are looking through rose tinted glasses. Tommy just bulldozed his way around VC, doing whatever he wanted.

Play the game today, and he just really doesn't stack up to any of the HD protags. They all have more to their character than, 'I'll f*cking kill you if you get in my way'.

The newer characters have that as well plus more.

@Zodape

Nice gif lol.

GankThis110
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#78

Posted 09 January 2014 - 01:27 AM

They all have more to their character


Perhaps that's the problem. The subtlety and simplicity of the earlier characters allowed you to shape your own idea of them. Some people thinkTommy was just a Scarface rip off psycho who had a popular voice actor(IMO that's horsesh*t)

Others think he was a psycho, whom had a certain charm and used respect, not fear, to gain support.

HD era protagonists are so complex to the point where you don't get to form your own idea on what kind of person they'd be, like Trevor. Trevor was a psychopath who liked to blow sh*t up and use fear to get people to do what he wanted.

So no the rose tinted goggles are off, Tommy was just (from my perspective) a better character than Trevor or whomever.

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#79

Posted 09 January 2014 - 02:55 PM

"ever since I was a kid I wanted to be a gangster"

Not a tough choice, unless you're 13 years old.


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#80

Posted 09 January 2014 - 02:59 PM

michael, franklin and trevor were only a bunch of tools.

tommy wouldn't let anybody boss him around.

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Zodape
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#81

Posted 09 January 2014 - 03:54 PM Edited by Zodape, 09 January 2014 - 03:57 PM.

 

 

he kills him and his girlfriend for no reason

 

 

Even if Trevor is an asshole and ruined their lives, can you blame him for killing them at that moment? Floyd was ready to kill something with his knife aswell as Debra with a pistol.

 

 

Trevor bullied his way into their apartment, and he used violence, force and intimidation to make himself at home. Floyd and Debra finaslly had enough, told him to leave the apartment and he refused to leave - they had every valid right to defend their home and themselves armed with a weapon against a dangerous intruder, which Trevor basically was. 

 

Well, I dunno. Even if I was the biggest asshole on earth and I deserved to be mutilated alive, I would kind of defend myself in that situation.

Trevor is a dick who ruined Floyds life, but I don't blame him for killing him.

 

@Smooth

 

I always wanted to use it.  :catloaf:


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#82

Posted 09 January 2014 - 04:18 PM

To the people who don't know Trevor was going to pay Floyd for the heists then leave him be. After Trevor was gone he remodeled the apartment and received Debra who for some reason was pissed (Probably because of Mr. Raspberry Jam's death).

 

He asked them both to get out of her house (Because for those who didn't gave a f*ck and only looked at the plotholes of the storyline it was her condo, not Floyd's) and threatened them at gunpoint. I bet Trevor would of had left if asked politely but instead he pulled out a gun and waved it at them both, Floyd took a knife as self defense. Trevor got mad as hell because he just left Ms. Madrazo only to be rejected out of somewhere he considered a cousin's house.

 

I also liked Tommy he was great but you got to remember he was a dick too, he got rid of Rosenberg even if he got him all those contacts and helped him through the story, Rosenberg was Tommy's only true friend but then he rejects him out of nowhere and sends him to the West coast to rehab in small town in the desert then he rejects his phone calls when he gets out of it.


Official General
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#83

Posted 09 January 2014 - 04:54 PM

 

 

 

he kills him and his girlfriend for no reason

 

 

Even if Trevor is an asshole and ruined their lives, can you blame him for killing them at that moment? Floyd was ready to kill something with his knife aswell as Debra with a pistol.

 

 

Trevor bullied his way into their apartment, and he used violence, force and intimidation to make himself at home. Floyd and Debra finaslly had enough, told him to leave the apartment and he refused to leave - they had every valid right to defend their home and themselves armed with a weapon against a dangerous intruder, which Trevor basically was. 

 

Well, I dunno. Even if I was the biggest asshole on earth and I deserved to be mutilated alive, I would kind of defend myself in that situation.

Trevor is a dick who ruined Floyds life, but I don't blame him for killing him.

 

 

Of course you would. I would expect Trevor to do that, because he just enjoys killing people in general anyway, so killing Debra and Floyd was the perfect excuse just to satisfy his homicidal thrills once again. 

 

To kill someone in self-defense when you were clearly the one who threaten that person's life and well-being in the first place, is not really a great example of a 'self defense' killing is it ? I'm pretty sure it is not. That's not really a good argument to defend Trevor in this situation and classify is actions as self-defense. 


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#84

Posted 09 January 2014 - 05:12 PM

never forget! Tommy Vercetrain.


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#85

Posted 09 January 2014 - 05:20 PM

@OfficialGeneral

 

You're look at Trevor way superficially, I bet you didn't even gave a f*ck about the story two bits to understand why there ins't gangbanging or why Trevor kills people. He doesn't do it generally because he enjoys the thrills of going around and stabbing people, shooting them or beating them, he does it because they piss him the hell off.

 

During Fresh Meat he was at the brink of raging and about to slaughter Franklin because he laughted at him, Franklin apologized so Trevor calmed down but still was pretty pissed.

 

Debra could of had nicely asked Trevor to leave but instead she pulled out a gun on him and Floyd, Floyd took out a knife because he finally had it about being pushed around by his Girlfriend and.. well you know whe don't really know what happened in the scene but we know they're both death.

 

I said he had all the right to kill Debra, she was a bitch, dumped them both out of her house and pulled a gun because he wanted when she was never theatened in the first place. But Floyd, we don't really know what happened to Floyd but he didn't deserve it I can agree on that.


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#86

Posted 09 January 2014 - 05:25 PM

 

 

 

 

he kills him and his girlfriend for no reason

 

 

Even if Trevor is an asshole and ruined their lives, can you blame him for killing them at that moment? Floyd was ready to kill something with his knife aswell as Debra with a pistol.

 

 

Trevor bullied his way into their apartment, and he used violence, force and intimidation to make himself at home. Floyd and Debra finaslly had enough, told him to leave the apartment and he refused to leave - they had every valid right to defend their home and themselves armed with a weapon against a dangerous intruder, which Trevor basically was. 

 

Well, I dunno. Even if I was the biggest asshole on earth and I deserved to be mutilated alive, I would kind of defend myself in that situation.

Trevor is a dick who ruined Floyds life, but I don't blame him for killing him.

 

 

Of course you would. I would expect Trevor to do that, because he just enjoys killing people in general anyway, so killing Debra and Floyd was the perfect excuse just to satisfy his homicidal thrills once again. 

 

To kill someone in self-defense when you were clearly the one who threaten that person's life and well-being in the first place, is not really a great example of a 'self defense' killing is it ? I'm pretty sure it is not. That's not really a good argument to defend Trevor in this situation and classify is actions as self-defense. 

 

I'm not defending him. I already said that he was an asshole who ruined Floyd's life.

 

What I'm telling you is that Floyd had it coming when he turned into a brave kitchen knife warrior in the wrong moment.


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#87

Posted 09 January 2014 - 05:59 PM

he rejects him out of nowhere and sends him to the West coast to rehab in small town in the desert then he rejects his phone calls when he gets out of it.


Rosenberg got seriously addicted to cocaine, so Tommy sent him away to get help and shunned him.(since cocaine was a big part of the business)




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