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Does everyone in life contemplate suicide at least once?

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El_Diablo
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#61

Posted 28 December 2013 - 05:33 AM Edited by El_Diablo, 28 December 2013 - 05:34 AM.

in the end, suicide is dumb because it's irreversible.

the fact that it's selfish has little to do with how illogical the act is.

 

you simply have no opportunity to change your mind or work on improving your situation. and things could always be worse no matter how dark your situation feels in the moment. very few people on Earth are truly so destitute and without hope that suicide makes sense. for 99% of people that kill themselves, it was pretty much unnecessary.

 

people have overcome such horrific, terrible experiences in this world. things that most of us could never imagine going through. the human mind, body, and spirit are remarkably resilient. there's usually no excuse for killing yourself. someone has always been through worse than you and come out just fine. so I can see why terminally ill patients want the ability to end their life on their own terms. I can see why someone who has been captured/imprisoned/tortured with no way out would see death as a viable escape. but short of that, I really have yet to hear any good reason for suicide from the average depressed 20-year old.

 

it's mostly BS.

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GunWrath
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#62

Posted 28 December 2013 - 05:47 AM

Not everyone thinks about it the way you do, Diabluhdumbass.


El_Diablo
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#63

Posted 28 December 2013 - 05:48 AM

good one....

way to add to the discussion.

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GunWrath
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#64

Posted 28 December 2013 - 05:56 AM

Like that? Plenty more where that comes from.

 

Fact is, you need to read this entire topic before typing what you just did. You sound ignorant and seeking some sort of approval from someone as usual. So because depressed people feel the need to end their lives is bullsh*t? You may think there is other ways to help yourself than ultimately ending it, but they don't think so. Sometimes, they have no alternative route to take.. professional help costs money, professional helps requires one person to be open about their problems, not everyone is open with their problems at all.

 

There are so many factors when it comes to a person ending their life and quite frankly, it's not always someone who is 'Depressed' or some f*cking sad teenager or adult. Suicide ranges from negative thoughts to people just doing it to get their message across. So again, what you said makes absolutely certain of one thing, you haven't the slighest f*cking idea about suicide. So just stfu and leave.

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Panz
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#65

Posted 28 December 2013 - 05:59 AM

 

Is that really the case though? I know more young people who committed suicide than older people. Obviously that's anecdotal evidence, but still. If you're talking about loved ones who have already passed, then why would young people commit suicide if their loved ones are all most likely alive?

 

I was talking about youngish people, early 30's. That's what it is like in India. We live in different countries so it can't be the same. (Although I'm guessing teens commit suicide in America more than the age group I stated. Ex: Amanda Todd) And almost all the time it's only woman and for some reason, they aren't from well-off families either. And most of the time they have a child who is quite young.

 

Ah, that makes more sense.  Yeah, I'm interested to see the differences between different countries, as I'm sure the motives vary quite a bit. 

 

El_Diablo: And that's just how life is. We're all different. Depression can produce some pretty intense physical effects on the body, and it can manipulate your own conscience into thinking about things differently than you might have ever thought about them before.  I really don't think we need to label those who chose the "easy way out", though.  In the end, a life was lost and that person couldn't be helped and it's really unfortunate.  Some people require the help of others to be pulled out of a slump, while others can do it on their own. Does that make one person better than the other? I don't think so.  Maybe that person who committed suicide just needed a helping hand, but he/she never got it, and this is what came of it. 

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El_Diablo
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#66

Posted 28 December 2013 - 06:05 AM Edited by El_Diablo, 28 December 2013 - 06:16 AM.

I've read the topic, I've replied more than once since page 1, thanks.

 

seeking some sort of approval from someone as usual.

 

are you daft?

I don't seek approval from anonymous people on an internet forum. I've got more important things to worry about.

 

maybe you should've read my posts before firing off your guns.

if you had read my posts, you'd see that I'm not unfamiliar with feelings of being lost or depressed. I've even thought about what the world would be like for my family if I had not existed. and eventually I overcame those feelings. I already qualified the fact that there are circumstances in which suicide appears perfectly viable.

 

my only point is that most of the time, it's not.

a lot of the time, suicide is the cheap way out, not the the ideal solution. you even basically agreed with me on page 1. you said what I said, using different words.

 

if you ever find yourself hitting rock bottom, just think about the good things or the consequences your death may have on others and those around you or what type of life you might miss. It does get better.. baby steps.

 

this is more or less exactly what I said.

but now on page 3 you've got a stick in your ass and you're calling me names like we're 6 years old. why? I don't know, that's your problem :yawn:

 

 

Some people require the help of others to be pulled out of a slump, while others can do it on their own. Does that make one person better than the other? I don't think so.  Maybe that person who committed suicide just needed a helping hand, but he/she never got it, and this is what came of it. 

I NEVER said that one person was "better" or worse than another for any of their decisions.

I said that their decision might be dumb. I didn't say the person was good or bad.

 

you're putting words in my mouth and then arguing against things I didn't say, that's a Strawman.


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#67

Posted 28 December 2013 - 06:08 AM

Everything you've said in this topic means nothing with that last post of yours.

 

You went from saying what?, you've overcame your doubts of life and sorrow.. but anyone else that doesn't, is bullsh*t? C'mon dude. Sticks and stones, if a name bothers you or ruffles your feathers, you shouldn't have an internet connection.

 

Wait, did Panz like a post of mine? We're bonding.


El_Diablo
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#68

Posted 28 December 2013 - 06:12 AM

you've overcame your doubts of life and sorrow.. but anyone else that doesn't, is bullsh*t?

 

I only said that their reasons for committing suicide are usually not good enough, considering the remarkable ways people can learn to overcome their past.


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#69

Posted 28 December 2013 - 06:15 AM

Not everyone finds a way of overcoming though, man. Sure, it seems easy to just look for a reaching hand but it's not always there.


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#70

Posted 28 December 2013 - 06:18 AM

Diablo: I never said that you said that, and I honestly wasn't trying to attack you. I was just writing down my thoughts and ranting on.  Take a chill pill.  

 

And not everyone does have access to resources to help them overcome their past.  Some of them do, and sometimes living in pain after trying to feel better year after year just becomes unbearable. Lack of progress defeats them, and they give up.

 

GunWrath: Hahaha, yeah. Just don't litter in front of me and apparently we're good to go. :^:

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El_Diablo
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#71

Posted 28 December 2013 - 06:19 AM

I'm chill, Panz.

but GunWrath did start by calling me a dumbass for literally no reason.... sorry if I'm defending myself from useless attacks.

Not everyone finds a way of overcoming though, man. Sure, it seems easy to just look for a reaching hand but it's not always there.

 

yeah I understand.

I didn't say "good riddance, f*ck those people" did I?

 

no.

I'm just saying that oftentimes the act of killing yourself doesn't really match up with severity of your situation. people who go through with suicide obviously didn't do so lightly, but I contend that most of them didn't have to. they jumped to the conclusion of suicide WAY too soon.


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#72

Posted 28 December 2013 - 06:33 AM

Wait, did Panz like a post of mine? We're bonding.

 

Bu..., but Kirsty.

 

Anyways maybe suicide seems inevitable because the mind isn't able to work properly at that stage. Depression can cause an effect on the mind, it's quite easy for us to say all this behind a screen. We will only know it's true effect when face it.

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GunWrath
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#73

Posted 28 December 2013 - 06:36 AM Edited by GunWrath, 28 December 2013 - 06:39 AM.

Yeah, I've read and even seen where people killed themselves over the smallest of things but in their mind, that was their last strike I suppose. Some people aren't entirely headstrong, some people are already sick in their head and some people really just don't want a helping hand.

 

Are they cowards? Absolutely not. But don't get me wrong, I'm sure if we have a friend or loved one reaching out, we'll be there to try and help.. but in the end, only they can choose to listen or take the help. I've lost a few friends to suicide and some suffered PTSD, some couldn't handle the normal life after service.. all signs of trouble. But we can only offer help, unfortunately, it's not always the help they seek.

 

But, Diablo, don't take me calling you a dumbass as an act of war.. I call everyone dumbass atleast once. I'm a dumbass myself. :^: Nah, you're a dumbass. :p

 

 

 

 

Wait, did Panz like a post of mine? We're bonding.

 

 

 

Bu..., but Kirsty.

 

 

Haha, she'll understand.

 

 

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#74

Posted 28 December 2013 - 06:43 AM Edited by Panz, 28 December 2013 - 06:46 AM.

There are cases that make the person seem selfish, yes. Doesn't mean they are, though  I had a good friend from high school whose dad locked himself in his garage after a tiny argument with his wife. He had an older car so this worked, but he turned on the car and sat. Carbon monoxide filled the garage and the small building attached to it, and he died.  The whole family didn't know...So, the mom went in to try to get him out, and she died right there. Same with their two kids, one being my friend.  I can't tell you how angry I was with that man, but ultimately, he was depressed and in pain and one tiny little act triggered him to do this.  

 

Like I said before, the mind is pretty powerful, so anything can trigger this behavior.  People who are suicidal need help. They don't need to be looked down upon or judged, and I think that's what they fear the most, and that's why a lot of them don't reach out for the help they need. 


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#75

Posted 28 December 2013 - 06:52 AM

Suicide isn't selfish, trying to keep someone alive that doesn't want to be for your own needs is.

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Chukkles
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#76

Posted 28 December 2013 - 06:57 AM Edited by Chukkles, 28 December 2013 - 06:59 AM.

Suicide isn't selfish, trying to keep someone alive that doesn't want to be for your own needs is.

This, like I said in my post back one page. Anyone who thinks this obviously hasn't considered it on a serious level. Therefore there are so many people who haven't thought about it seriously.
Those people will never understand how it feels.
But like I said in my post, I turned myself around, well, am still in the process but results are there already.

If you ever find someone like me who tried to kill themselves and they never told a soul until they told you, they were serious about it.
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#77

Posted 28 December 2013 - 07:10 AM

^Exactly
 

GTAForums should report you all to the police so you all can get the help you need, it is heartbreaking to read so many sad stories of depression and suicidal thoughts. The forum could be liable if something happens.

I hardly think so. GTAF wouldn't be liable, we would only be liable POSSIBLY if we were to egg someone on to their death, it'd have to be relatively solid egging as well.

Go on 4Chan, people regularly ask for suggestions for the best/least painful way to kill themselves, I even helped a few people with that with a mate of mine, Usually people say that there was nothing we could do so don't bother, just suggestions, we figured to suggest good ways to do it so they don't become brain dead vegetables or something.

 


El_Diablo
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#78

Posted 28 December 2013 - 07:39 AM

But, Diablo, don't take me calling you a dumbass as an act of war.. I call everyone dumbass atleast once. I'm a dumbass myself. :^: Nah, you're a dumbass. :p

 

well I had to reply, but I tend to call everyone an idiot too.

so it's all good.

 

I just don't want you to be personally offended by my point of view on this topic because it sounds like we're actually in agreement, but we arrive from different angles. I was judging you based on your page 1 reply. it sounds like we're both saying that suicide often isn't the best answer, doesn't it? I mean, this is what you said "It does get better.. baby steps."

 

maybe the way I said it was more like tough love?

but I'm not saying to hell with people who commit suicide, only their reasons (sometimes).

 

there's a lot of bad reasons for suicide. and just because I believe that, it doesn't mean I'm perfect or immune from it. I'm only 26 years old. literally anything could happen to me in the future that might suddenly cause me to jump from the nearest skyscraper. ain't nobody immune to that sh*t.

 

do you know what I am saying?

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#79

Posted 28 December 2013 - 07:46 AM

Absolutely agree that suicide isn't always best answer, atleast for the more basic or moderate problems.. but all we can do is all we can do. If someone finally decides to pull the trigger or whatever means of going out they choose, then that's it. They think their problems were enough to leave this earth.

 

I'm just defending them I guess in a sense that they think their problems are severe enough to end it.. even though we might not agree but it's up to them. Help if you want but they'll make the final decision. I don't think it's selfish to want to help, as Finn said.. nothing wrong with offering help. Noone wants to see a friend or close one end it.. I'll be damned if I stood there and encouraged or let it happen without atleast asking if there's something I could do.

 

Tough love is a route I take on a lot of subjects, especially when it's people that are obviously not in a state of despair and near suicide but throw the word out there to gain attention.. 'I hate my life, I should just f*cking end it..' Though they really aren't to that point.. then I'm like 'Well, make sure you film it.. I want to see it.' There's people out there who are really hurting and in pain.. don't make fun at their expense.


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#80

Posted 28 December 2013 - 10:09 AM

I've read the topic, I've replied more than once since page 1, thanks.

 

seeking some sort of approval from someone as usual.

 

are you daft?

I don't seek approval from anonymous people on an internet forum. I've got more important things to worry about.

 

maybe you should've read my posts before firing off your guns.

if you had read my posts, you'd see that I'm not unfamiliar with feelings of being lost or depressed. I've even thought about what the world would be like for my family if I had not existed. and eventually I overcame those feelings. I already qualified the fact that there are circumstances in which suicide appears perfectly viable.

 

my only point is that most of the time, it's not.

a lot of the time, suicide is the cheap way out, not the the ideal solution. you even basically agreed with me on page 1. you said what I said, using different words.

 

if you ever find yourself hitting rock bottom, just think about the good things or the consequences your death may have on others and those around you or what type of life you might miss. It does get better.. baby steps.

 

this is more or less exactly what I said.

but now on page 3 you've got a stick in your ass and you're calling me names like we're 6 years old. why? I don't know, that's your problem :yawn:

 

 

Some people require the help of others to be pulled out of a slump, while others can do it on their own. Does that make one person better than the other? I don't think so.  Maybe that person who committed suicide just needed a helping hand, but he/she never got it, and this is what came of it. 

I NEVER said that one person was "better" or worse than another for any of their decisions.

I said that their decision might be dumb. I didn't say the person was good or bad.

 

you're putting words in my mouth and then arguing against things I didn't say, that's a Strawman.

TL;DR. But from what I can see is you lack empathy, sir. 
 


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#81

Posted 28 December 2013 - 10:41 AM

Absolutely agree that suicide isn't always best answer


So when is suicide the best answer? I can think of two:

The end stages of a painful terminal illness.

To avoid a worse imminent death (9/11 victims jumping rather than burning)

:sui:

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#82

Posted 28 December 2013 - 11:41 AM

We're discussing suicides involving people that are depressed and what not.. and I said for basic to moderate issues. If a hand is extended out for someone in need, hopefully they will try and get help first and if not, well.. 


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#83

Posted 28 December 2013 - 12:44 PM Edited by Fireman, 28 December 2013 - 12:48 PM.

Love how this topic IMMEDIATELY derailed to wether or not committing suicide is illogical/selfish.

 

Especially since the question this topic was ment for is in the title.

 

Since it's all derailed now, here is the topic about "Is suicide bad?":

 

http://gtaforums.com...considered-bad/

 

I said this there:

 

Yeah I wouldn't consider leaving your family and friends behind, worried about wether or not they could've done something about it, causing them to live in sorrow and grief for the remainder of their live, because you couldn't handle certain problems head-on and killed yourself because someone bullied you on the internet bad (just an example, obviously not everyone commits suicide for this reason)..

 

I wouldn't call that bad at all.

 

I might excuse someone considering suicide if he or she has been raped and abused by the people closest to him or if there's no other way out (then again people ALWAYS say there was no other way out, which is bullsh*t more than half the time).

 

In secondary school a girl in our class commited suicide by drowning herself and I know we never get the full story, but as far as I know it was because she was stressed out because she had to take over the tasks of her mother and her farther made her do everything in the house, then she had a dream of drowning and decided to do it the next day. Even I (I didn't like her at all) felt a sense of guilt like I could've done something, I can't imagine how her friends felt.

 

Now the biggest problem is that we can't see into someone's mind and feel what they might be feeling, but I still think it's a bad thing to do.

 

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#84

Posted 28 December 2013 - 12:57 PM

And almost all the time it's only woman and for some reason, they aren't from well-off families either. And most of the time they have a child who is quite young.

 

Do you have any evidence for this? "Working class mother in her early thirties" seems like a weirdly specific group to make up a supposed majority of suicides, especially when women only succeed at committing suicide one quarter as often as men. Perhaps this is just the impression you've gotten from selective reporting in the media?


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#85

Posted 28 December 2013 - 01:06 PM

 

And almost all the time it's only woman and for some reason, they aren't from well-off families either. And most of the time they have a child who is quite young.

 

Do you have any evidence for this? "Working class mother in her early thirties" seems like a weirdly specific group to make up a supposed majority of suicides, especially when women only succeed at committing suicide one quarter as often as men. Perhaps this is just the impression you've gotten from selective reporting in the media?

 

 

Like Panz said it varies from country to country. As for the evidence. I tend to keep a close eye on on the paper and most of the time it's always women who commit suicide.


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#86

Posted 28 December 2013 - 02:06 PM

Yes, I do at least once a day. However I don't think I could do it myself, simply for the sake of the effect it would have on my family. If I were to do anything, I would at least ensure that I drive away everybody else I'm close to. So by the time I turn up dead, nobody gives a sh*t.

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#87

Posted 28 December 2013 - 04:59 PM

 from what I can see is you lack empathy, sir. 

well you're an idiot.

 

if you have something to say, then say it.

if you don't, then don't reply.

 

 

Love how this topic IMMEDIATELY derailed to wether or not committing suicide is illogical/selfish.

 

that's not derailment.

it's actually perfectly on-topic.


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#88

Posted 28 December 2013 - 05:10 PM

It seems to me to be pretty arrogant to judge a person for committing suicide for whatever reason.


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#89

Posted 28 December 2013 - 05:37 PM

 

 from what I can see is you lack empathy, sir. 

well you're an idiot.

 

if you have something to say, then say it.

if you don't, then don't reply.

 

 

Love how this topic IMMEDIATELY derailed to wether or not committing suicide is illogical/selfish.

 

that's not derailment.

it's actually perfectly on-topic.

 

I did, and it has been said. I think you lack the ability to put yourself in other peoples shoes, such as a person who wants to commit suicide. Who are you to say when it is and isn't okay to commit suicide? You overcame your feelings of depression? Good for you, not everyone can do the same. Not everyone has a family that loves them and would care if you leave them behind. People experience things differently and I think it's unfair for us to judge if what they experienced is an okay reason to want to die for it when we can never feel the way they felt at the time. I was so pissed off when others would talk sh*t about a girl who killed herself recently because she was bullied and they say she was an idiot for what she did. She's dead for goodness sake! How can people say they know what real depression is when they go on to say people who commit suicide for certain reasons are idiots? 


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#90

Posted 28 December 2013 - 05:37 PM

I threatened to once, but it was just emotional blackmail. It was never on the cards.





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