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A question for soldiers

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darkwar854
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#1

Posted 18 December 2013 - 03:06 AM

I have been wondering if there will be a NWO, but this question is that if your government told you to kill an innocent civilian for no reason, would you do it?


universetwisters
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#2

Posted 18 December 2013 - 03:11 AM

New World Order?

Aside from having no military experience (aside from my dad being a paratrooper and my brother being in the marines), I can guarantee you that the whole NWO theory is just a crock of sh*t. There's not valid points to back it up aside from a few misconceptions made by tinfoil-hat-wearing theorists


theNGclan
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#3

Posted 18 December 2013 - 03:19 AM

Asking soldiers about the NWO is like throwing bologna at a tank. It's wasted effort. If there is some sort of oligarchy like the Illuminati/Skull and Bones society, they are far too smart to pull a NWO like scenario.


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#4

Posted 18 December 2013 - 03:47 AM

Asking soldiers about the NWO is like throwing bologna at a tank. It's wasted effort. If there is some sort of oligarchy like the Illuminati/Skull and Bones society, they are far too smart to pull a NWO like scenario.


Not if that bologna blocks the airvent and makes the operator suffocate....

darkwar854
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#5

Posted 19 December 2013 - 02:33 AM

I know the NWO is bs.  But the question is that would they kill citizens of their country if they were told to?


universetwisters
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#6

Posted 19 December 2013 - 02:34 AM

I know the NWO is bs.  But the question is that would they kill citizens of their country if they were told to?

Probably. The Nazi soldiers did it because they were "following orders".

 

But then again, America isn't Nazi.


OFWGKTADGAFLLBBLSBFBN
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#7

Posted 19 December 2013 - 02:39 AM

I know the NWO is bs.  But the question is that would they kill citizens of their country if they were told to?

Probably. The Nazi soldiers did it because they were "following orders".
 
But then again, America isn't Nazi.

America is Commie instead.
Spoiler

universetwisters
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#8

Posted 19 December 2013 - 02:47 AM

 

 

I know the NWO is bs.  But the question is that would they kill citizens of their country if they were told to?

Probably. The Nazi soldiers did it because they were "following orders".
 
But then again, America isn't Nazi.

 

America is Commie instead.
Spoiler

 

That a fact? I thought we were socialist right-wing liberal facists.


GunWrath
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#9

Posted 19 December 2013 - 02:48 AM

The politics behind the military can at times be misleading and unforgiving. Though during my service, there were no such acts/orders made. We received the usual HVT orders and those were mainly snatch & grabs and only lethal force if they opened fire. Civilians are never harmed or deemed dangerous unless it was collateral damage and they had ties to organizations.. but even then, lethal force isn't always used during war or operations.

 

What happens to the HVT's and all after they're handed over to command, well that's another story and one I don't know. 


lil weasel
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#10

Posted 19 December 2013 - 09:02 AM Edited by lil weasel, 19 December 2013 - 09:12 AM.

I have been wondering if there will be a NWO, but this question is that if your government told you to kill an innocent civilian for no reason, would you do it?

Of course you do. It's an order from a superior, and you must follow all Lawful orders. You don't decide what a Lawful Order is, your superior does. Easy trip to Leavenworth if you don't. Who are you to identify an enemy as 'innocent' let alone 'civilian'? Do you think the Drone pilots worry about it?

You don't worry about it. It's not like the World Court is going to try you for war crimes. You were just following orders. :^:

 

As far as NWO, that is just a series of coincidences, where people in power are trying to increase theirs...


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#11

Posted 19 December 2013 - 09:06 AM

Yeah, Weasel, it's not like numerous people who've claimed to be "following orders" have been tried at international tribunals, found guilty and sentenced for their roles in conflicts including the Second World War, Bosnia and the wider Yugoslav breakup, Rwanda and South Sudan, is it?

Oh, wait, that's exactly what's happened.

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#12

Posted 19 December 2013 - 09:42 PM

I thought Nuremberg was fake?  :rol:


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#13

Posted 19 December 2013 - 09:43 PM

I don't see the problem with the Nuremberg defense. Following orders is a legitimate excuse for ones actions.


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#14

Posted 19 December 2013 - 10:05 PM

Valid point though if they were to refuse orders, they were probably executed. Dark days then, very dark.

 

Though some were rightfully executed after the trials. I watched a show on Mil Channel called Nazi Hunters, some of them dudes were brutal and rather enjoyed some of the things they did, especially Josef Mangele.


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#15

Posted 19 December 2013 - 11:07 PM Edited by elanman, 19 December 2013 - 11:15 PM.

Valid point though if they were to refuse orders, they were probably executed. Dark days then, very dark.

 

Though some were rightfully executed after the trials. I watched a show on Mil Channel called Nazi Hunters, some of them dudes were brutal and rather enjoyed some of the things they did, especially Josef Mangele.

 

G-d I love that show.

 

One f*cker called the Hangman of Riga got to me worst of all. This dude volunteered to commit wanton sadism against Jews out of pure hatred.

 

http://www.jpost.com...ing-the-hangman

 

Found the documentary about the Mossad agent (still alive at time of filming) who tracked him down in South America--well worth a watch:

 

 

Part 1:

 

Part 2:

 

 

On-topic: No, I wouldn't do it. I'd be proud to be a UK soldier or a member of the IDF because I am a citizen of the former by birth and the latter by ancestry, and because I agree with the values upheld by those nations (which would never in the 21st century require a soldier to murder an innocent). However, if I were a citizen of a country with a less stringent honour code, I'd like to think I would remain true to my principals and face punishment, possibly death, rather than murder an innocent.

 

When your government starts telling you that the wanton murder of innocents is required for some "greater good", it's time to start questioning that government (or history has taught you nothing).

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GunWrath
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#16

Posted 19 December 2013 - 11:11 PM

Yeah, that show was great, in terms of representing what happened and all, not the acts committed against the Jews. I hope there make another season or two out of it .. even if it isn't just hunting them down. Fascinating learning about the Nazi's themselves as well as the atrocities.. because without that show, there was so much that I didn't even know went on behind closed doors.

 

That Mangele dude hit me pretty hard, all those experiments he did as far as injecting jews with certain poisions and acid. Then the abnormal testing on Twins, most, if not all were children.

 

Anyways, we should start a topic in Movies & TV about this show, I could go on for hours about it. :^:


Total Failure
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#17

Posted 19 December 2013 - 11:52 PM Edited by elanman, 19 December 2013 - 11:58 PM.

 

 

That Mangele dude hit me pretty hard, all those experiments he did as far as injecting jews with certain poisions and acid. Then the abnormal testing on Twins, most, if not all were children.

 

 

 

That guy was...monstrous. The documentary on him was insane, the guy really was a psychopath. Real shame they never managed to get him and make him stand trial, but I guess the guy lived in a state of constant paranoia after the war at least. Mengele was definitely one of the worst of the bunch, but the fact that this "Hangman of Riga" volunteered to work for the Nazis is sickening. I do feel bad for his family in a way, though, as I think he kept a lot of the details of his evil away from them so his kids probably just saw him as a regular dad.

 

Learning about the Germans who worked against the Nazis restores my faith in humanity a little bit. Groups like Die Weisse Rosa (http://en.wikipedia....wiki/White_Rose) had some serious courage to, even subversively, fight against the Nazis from within.

 

EDIT: And yes, the show is very interesting as it documents things you seldom learn about in a history classroom, like the early days of the Mossad and IDF. I've not seen the show in a while so I'm not sure if there are new episodes, but a topic would definitely be good!


Lil ski
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#18

Posted 20 December 2013 - 05:54 AM

What the f*ck am I reading?.......

Did you really just asked that question?

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#19

Posted 20 December 2013 - 06:46 AM

Innocent civilians are murdered all the time. In drone attacks alone we're racking up enough innocent deaths to equal how many died during 9/11.

 

Eye for an eye I suppose..


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#20

Posted 20 December 2013 - 07:36 AM

Not big on the whole NWO theory, but I doubt they'd attack civilians. They swore an oath to uphold and defend the constitution of the United States and I'd like to think Kissinger was wrong when he said that soldiers are stupid and will blindly follow orders.


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#21

Posted 20 December 2013 - 07:57 AM

Not big on the whole NWO theory, but I doubt they'd attack civilians. They swore an oath to uphold and defend the constitution of the United States and I'd like to think Kissinger was wrong when he said that soldiers are stupid and will blindly follow orders.

http://en.wikipedia....My_Lai_Massacre


Shenmue18
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#22

Posted 20 December 2013 - 10:09 AM

 Silly Darkwar, there was already a NWO...


Lil ski
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#23

Posted 20 December 2013 - 05:23 PM

I'm a current active soldier in the us army and I've never or my battle buddies ever, killed an innocent civilian or even ordered to do so (I'm a communications specialist for god sakes!), unless they wanna go to jail for murder and have a huge investigation going. Do civilians get killed on accident because they get caught up in the cross fire? yes that does happen. sucks but we try not to let that happen. But no one is ORDERED to kill civilians. If for some reason someone does ordered to do so, then you have the right to refuse because its an unlawful order and you can report the incident to higher in a sworn statement, and they will be dealt with. 


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#24

Posted 20 December 2013 - 07:08 PM Edited by Revenge of the Donut, 20 December 2013 - 07:09 PM.

Just my own opinion (not a soldier) but, I imagine most of them would (a lot of them reluctantly at first) would follow their orders, from their point of view it wouldn't be worth it to go against doing what they are told due to the fact that their superiors would punish them for disobeying orders, you'd have a few who'd be idealistic enough to make a stand but they'd be putting themselves, e.g. pension, freedom, maybe even life at risk, but lets face it most people wouldn't have the guts to do that. Some might desert over it if it bothered them enough but I think most of them would go along with it out of self interest.

 

Also of course you'd have the sick f*cks who actually enjoy their grizzly work, these ones would probably get a promotion or two for their enthusiasm by a ruthless commander looking to get results, the rest of them would fear and hate them, but they know if they want to stay out of the firing line they just have to suck it up and do as they're told, I think personally this how the experience would be for most soldiers in these circumstances. 





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