Maybe because the story mostly revolve around Trevor & Micheal hence they don't give a sh*t to give a proper story to Franklin
Can't feel the homie Franklin
Posted 18 December 2013 - 12:55 PM
Here, we have the OP (Wolfhuman) making a thread about how boring, and bland Franklin's personality is, and how his character faded into the background, with his presence being hardly felt for most of the game. Many others are saying the same thing on here, and have said the same thing in other threads as well. Let's face it, for most part this is the truth.
But the thing I don't get is when the same people like the OP bash, attack, and criticize anyone with the view that crime-related themes like gang wars, drug-dealing, and more ghetto action should have been expanded on more in GTA V specifically for Franklin's gameplay in both the story, and as a continuous side activity (for replay value). I say I don't get it, because this is exactly the kind of stuff that would have allowed much more of an insight into Franklin's character and personality - after all the hood is his world, and Los Santos gang culture is an everyday part of his life. You will not get more of insight into Franklin's character and personality when he is around Michael and Trevor, because his association and friendship with them is almost entirely driven by the prospect of huge financial rewards, despite the fact that they make a great team. And to add, Franklin comes from a completely different world and background to Michael and Trevor too.
Like Hardcore Savage stated earlier, the reason why Franklin has very little substance or depth to his character is because there was hardly any significant emphasis on the hood and gang activity in his story. Now I know certain people on here already know I have this great personal desire to see more of the hood and gangs in this game, but I can assure you that my personal desire and preferences alone are not the reason I have my views on this subject. More emphasis on the gang and hood theme in V would have most definitely provided a solid platform for Franklin to develop much more character presence and depth in the game. The hood and gang life is Franklin's world, it is what he grew up in, and it is the environment that made him who he is. It only makes sense to emphasis this theme if his character is to be properly explored and expressed. Before anyone screams, "but Franklin wanted to the leave the gang life", please just stop right there. Firstly, it's not entirely true, Franklin is still a gang member, he just wanted something bigger and better than the low-level street stuff that did not make him much money. Secondly, Franklin is still deeply connected to his gang and the hood, there are plenty of plausible reasons based on this alone that would provide more than a good enough reason as to why he would be dragged back into all that hood and gang action. Just because he moved into the wealthy 'Hills' and got money, it don't have to mean he's disconnected from gangs and the hood forever. Sometimes, more money brings more problems, some of you surely must have heard that saying before.
This is definitely not about wanting another SA either. Why the f**k would I want SA again ? No way, I'd never want that. But I would like the gang and hood angle in V to be covered properly as realistically as it could be, depicted just like how it is in modern-day. Franklin was the person to provide that angle, but because there was so little of it, we got so little of Franklin.
No point in screaming "no more gang and hood stuff in V !!", and at the same time sadly reflecting on the fact that "Franklin's character is bland, boring and hardly had a personality or presence in the game".
Just because Franklin comes from the hood, doesn't mean he need to do gang stuff. But it is probably the most logical thing for him but it is not needed. But since the 3 protagonist have 3 different background, the focus on Franklin's :"gang", life would make sense. It would have been better if Franklin would have joined the 2 guys, later in the game. I am not a one that needs or want the gang stuff in the game. i mean if it would be in the game then i would still enjoy it. But it would been better if there was more focus on Franklin's street life. But hey, its the way it is and hopefully we can have those stuff for Franklin as DLC.
I hope no one finds it annoying but I'm going to post my topic statement about Franklin from another Topic I started.
"Franklin Clinton: The man who is lost in the wasteland of post gangland L.S. The man with ambition for something better, but for selfish reasons and that being the girl he can't over. He is a killer, but with no remorse (At least all the other GTA V characters understand their actions of murder) or no care. Multiple people bring up this fact of Franklin being a sociopathic murder but he just shrugs it off, never once does he ever question the act of murder. He feels it can be avoided but he can still do it with no care. Cold blood runs in those veins. Franklin never really shows emotion for anything else than his selfish desires of the girl he can't have. He never minds doing jobs, kill, steal, break in, he never argues with it (morally), he just agrees and goes with it (if it's a smart job). Who is the real psychopath? Trevor or Franklin, I'd put money on Franklin. He has no real emotions, he is a dark character, he is the embodiment of GTA. Death, money and vices. Ever think as to why he sticks to the background? Because he has no need to make the world his, he just wants money and do whatever he needs to for it. Fits perfectly in the image, background, but you play as that, you play as that man, a man who was forced to save his best friend Lamar, a man who only saved Michael was because Dave screwed him over and he needed Michael to deal with it. A man who assassinates without any problem, never even feels bad for his assassinations. (At least Niko cynically talked down about it.) Franklin is the Macbeth in GTA V."
Now many like to say Trevor is the most psychopathic in the story, but I disagree, mostly because Trevor runs on pure emotion whilst Franklin seems to be emotionless.
1) He kills many people in the story and even assassinates people for money, but he never guilt or cares that he is killing. At least Trevor acknowledges the fact that he takes life and reasons it out but Franklin doesn't even do that. He is even called out for being a murdering psychopath but he just ignores that.
2) Franklin over the course becomes an adrenaline junky and takes serious risks. He even is notorious with insane driving.
3)Franklin shows emotion at times but it seems fake and since fakeness is one of the themes in the game, I would put that as a good backbone for this theory. I think Franklin fails to develop any real connection to anyone. He knows how to act the part of a friend but he doesn't feel it. The A & B ending would prove my point, even C really since he still doesn't show real emotion. The Lamar rescue would be another great point as he is forced to save his own best friend.
In a way, that would make sense. Since i don't take that R* just want to have an empty character. Byt i played as Franklin, i would have picked it up if he was indeed a sociopath. I don't know, but good post.
1. Guy maybe doesn't want to think about it.
2. Serious risks? Guy was scared to jump out of plane, Dom even told him that he is a vagina.
3. That goes a little too far for me, but i don't know. Its maybe true.
Both those examples were more about him wanting to avoid an altercation as it was impractical. Honestly that scene where he apologises to Trevor... he wasn't at all intimidated by Trevor, you see Trevor gets up in his face and Franklin doesn't back down at all like any normal person would. He apologises, but it seems more to placate Trevor than because he's legitimately sorry for laughing at him.
But it's all how you interpret it, I suppose.
@WolfhumanYes all characters are crazy. They commit felonies at a rate only a sociopath could. None of them have any empathy. So yeah, I don't find Trevor's craziness all that cool or original.
Same here bro. These are the same reasons why I just don't think Trevor's crazy, wild and extremely violent persona made him anything special or original. It did not make me think he was a 'badass' that's just for sure. I guess some people on here are just easily wowed and intrigued by such unsurprising things.
To me, Trevor was just a despicable, dirty, drug-addicted and loudmouth bully with an inflated, false sense of invincibility. He generally only picked on people that were either vulnerable, weak and easily intiimidated, or those he was clearly capable handling. It was clear to see what a real pussy he was when he finally met his match in Franklin - the punk b*tch ran away, because he knew that Franklin was cold enough to kill him, despite their friendship - and that scared him, because he knew he was gonna die, no matter what Franklin said.
Yes all characters are crazy but Trevor expresses it in a way that has not been done before.
Ok, it seems that you clearly have heat towards Trevor. Personally, i don't have heat towards Franklin, i still think that he is a cool guy.
Weak? He went to Grove street like an alpha male. He destroyed the lost like its an everyday thing. Franklin was scared to take a pistol, lol.
He didn't have a powerful character. Tommy Vercetti though.. whoa boy. I guess the 3 protags badass levels aren't high enough. Trevor's badass. But that's just cause he's just an angry moron stuck in a hick town doing nothing but meth all day. Funny, yeah. Does he get the job done? Hell no.
Doesn't get the job done? He pretty much single handedly eliminates The Lost MC, the Varrios Los Aztecas, and the Cheng Family presences in Blaine County, and he even eliminates the O'Neil Brothers entirely. Vercetti got sh*t done too, but Trevor got his fair share in.
Posted 18 December 2013 - 01:37 PM
Just because Franklin comes from the hood, doesn't mean he need to do gang stuff. But it is probably the most logical thing for him but it is not needed
Well of course Franklin did not need to do too much of the gang stuff, it's not a necessity at all. Rockstar can flip his story anyway they like and could still make remote sense, it's up to them how they write it. And that's what they pretty much did do - they left out most of his gang-related stuff anyway. Which, in the opinion of many has not really worked well for the story and to some extent, the gameplay, and it's clear to see why.
You said the key word - it was the most logical thing for him to have more emphasis on the gang stuff for his story, and to get a deeper insight into his character/personality. What matters the most here is what was the most logically valid option, rather than what different kind of other valid options could have been taken for developing and gaining an insight into his character/personality.
Without any strong emphasis on the gang stuff for his story, Franklin was always gonna be doomed to stay in background and shadows for most of the game, and that is exactly what happened. Well like you say, it's the way it is, and for us who wanted that stuff, we can only hope this is fixed via dlc.
Posted 18 December 2013 - 02:06 PM Edited by visionist, 18 December 2013 - 02:07 PM.
Franklin should have been a woman. Not a stereotypical "ass kicking" bullsh*t woman but a Madam (female pimp). She'd have a rags-to-riches story that sees her start out as a stripper/street hooker (these would be full-fledged, controversial minigames) building up to working in a classy brothel and eventually having a lucrative hooker empire of her own. On the side, she'd build up her physical strength and killing skills with Michael and Trevor (she'd start out with very low strength and shooting skills but high driving skills like Franklin) and act as the bait/getaway driver in heists.
Some kind of sordid lust triangle between the three could play an amusing part that factors into the ending you choose, not sure about that though. To make things more interesting, she could also come from a gang background, either the Families or even an Asian gang. Lamar would be her protector figure and she'd have Chop to protect her too. She'd be involved with the Families through Lamar and as the story progressed she'd become increasingly lethal and just as badass as Trevor and Michael. Eventually she might help Lamar take back Grove Street for the Families, as well as be involved in drama with her own gang (nepotism, infighting etc).
She'd have the assassination missions in a Nikita femme-fatale style as well as pimping missions (picking up a hooker with her would work like recruitment did in SA, although massively expanded) Being a woman, the story would change in many ways, other character's attitudes to her would be of great relevance, and how those attitudes change. The main point to her character would be as a parallel to Trevor: he acts psychotic, like Scarface, but underneath he has a sensitive side. She'd be the opposite, acting exactly the way she needs to in any given situation, in order to get to the top. She'd play the sweet girl, the charming lady, the liberal slut, but underneath she'd be cold and calculating, and cruel ,viciously, remorselessly cruel.
The torture minigame would be with her, not Trevor (imagine the controversy of a female torturer- she'd contrast the pain of the torture with the promised pleasures of the flesh to get into the victim's head). For a final, ultimate twist, she could even be a corrupt cop (she's a two faced bitch remember!?) out to get the the other two right from the start for personal reasons that stretch right back to North Yankton ten years ago.
The final choice? Side with her and kill the others (or just one) or side with the others and kill her. She'd have vigilante-style cop missions as a result, too. Her wardrobe would be the biggest of the three, naturally and the most varied by far. Hair colour and styles would be massively varied, and her tan could be varied too (unless she's black of course- I'd say her ideal ethnicity would be mixed Oriental/Hispanic/Native American/WASP- would create a very versatile look ALA Vanessa Hudgens:...
...as well as a plethora of storyline options for gangs etc) in order to become the perfect bait for her target(s). Such a character would be very challenging for R* to write and the fans to accept, but that's the whole point. If you don't like playing as a woman, you have two guys to choose from instead.
TL; DR: Franklin should have had boobs and been called Kaytlin (KT everyone would call her).
Posted 19 December 2013 - 03:06 AM Edited by Official General, 19 December 2013 - 03:43 AM.
If you ask me, Franklin could be considered much more of 'badass' and cold-blooded killer than Trevor is, when you really think about it based on this incident. And more of course, but this especially. Just look at how he pretends to be scared of Trevor, then at a later stage, he hunts him down and just kills him like that. He is real cold and calculating, that is a serious sociopath right there.
However, that's not considered as canon.
That is irrelevant to the point I'm making bro.
The fact is, the option is there to make it happen in your game. It can be considered canon if you wanted it to, hence why the option is there.
Anyway, like I stated, it's totally irrelevant to the point I was making.
I dunno. The three act very weird in the A and B endings:
-Trevor and Michael act like pussies. Really? After all they've been through, they just run from one guy? Trevor stealing some military chopper from a military base in a very dumb way to use it to steal a nuke? I ain't buying that crap.
-Franklin all of a sudden turns into the psycho. Now, this is actually interesting, but why just at the end? Why doesn't he turn into a psycho when he is about to kill some Ballas? Why not when he is helping his friends tie loose ends in the final mission? And why only and only in endings A or B, while during the whole story he acted differently?
-Why Franklin ended up helping Lamar after that bitch told him to, when he had no reason to help him at all, yet he thinks to/goes after the two that were actually useful to him?
I'd like to think that all endings are canon, but A and B bring many plot holes to the already plot hole'd story. I'll stay with C, thank you.
Edit: I know it's irrelevant to your point, I just felt like posting this.
* I think Franklin caught Trevor slipping. He kinda tricked Trevor into thinking this was gonna be a heart-to-heart meeting now that they were good friends, so Trevor probably came without his gun, or very little firepower, so he knew he would have got outgunned by Franklin once it was clear to him that he'd been set up. So that's probably why Trevor decided to run first,
* I would not say Franklin turned 'psycho' as such at the end. I said he could be considered to be a psycho o in a way, only because of the fact that he coldly turned on Trevor and killed him. By the end of the game, Franklin is already stinking rich from the last big heist, Trevor or Michael are now no longer of any real use or benefit to him - now he's been threatened with jail and the prospect of his luxury life taken away from him unless he kills either Trevor or Michael. This is where Franklin's cold and murderous instincts to protect his self interests really kick-in, right at the end and I can see why.
* Lool, your third point is actually a good one. But still, Lamar after all is his close friend, and his real friend, Lamar is from the hood and still understands his language and character more than Michael or Trevor regardless.
But you are still right in away, I agree, the story was not structured properly.
Posted 19 December 2013 - 03:11 AM
I tried it but i just can't feel Franklin as a character. In my opinion, the voice actor did a tremendous job in voicing him. But i just can't feel the character. When you switch to him he does something cheesy like eating or watching television. When i play as him i don't know, it feels like i am playing some generic guy. Trevor is a psycho, maniac does crazy things. Micheal has a family and has a wealthy home, and is a former bank robber with skills But Franklin...don't know. What do other people think about this?
Rockstar chose to push game mechanic boundries in GTA V, wheras IV pushed Rockstars storytelling. This is the result. Characters aren't as well realised and you cannot relate as much because you're constantly switching between them and switching between personalities, there is detail you can only notice and remember in characters by spending a lot of time with them. Hence previous protagonists. Can the series go back to one character? Who knows, but I think we won't ever see a strong story like pre-IV unless they revert back to one character.
If that's the case then why are game mechanics better in GTA IV than in GTA V?
Posted 19 December 2013 - 03:32 AM
Rockstar should've made at least 40 missions for each character before they even meet up. Then even after they meet up, they can all still have missions that are personal and doesn't involve the other 2 protags. This can give the game multiple endings and effects just incase one protag's antagonist gets involved with another protagonist.
Franklin: 40 missions about his life as a gang member and car repo man. His relationship with his girlfriend and best friend Lamar. His upcoming in the CGSF. Then his 40th mission can be him helping his crew take back over GROVE and then he meets up with mike and it moves on from there as the original story. Same thing with Michael but 40 missions of him robbing banks, dealing with family issues, and balancing out his life with the Feds. Lastly, 25 missions for trevor before he finds out Michael is alive.
Even after all of those missions, Mike, Frank, and Trev can still do "their" own missions without the other protagonists being involved. This will allow the characters to develop a personallity and a story. As people have said before, if this game was about 1 person, it's defiently Mike.
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