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On Internet Piracy.

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The Pizza Delivery Guy
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#91

Posted 15 December 2013 - 02:45 AM

I'm calling out anti piracy's Bullsh*t.

 

Of course I'd download a car if I could. That would be friggin awesome.

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Finn 7 five 11
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#92

Posted 15 December 2013 - 06:46 AM

 

 

 

In some countries people have no other option than to pirate because the game, program, or film they want isn't available to buy or is being sold way above the retail price. However for business or professional use, I would consider it very wrong to use pirated software.

 

Does that make it right, though? To pirate something because it's being sold for a price higher than you want to pay for it?

 

Yes, if the price for a game is 1/5 of average salary (in most developing countries) then it's ok to copy it for free instead. Publisher's fault that they are greedy. 

 

1. The best thing happened to internet.
2. No and no.
3. Depends.
4. Sure.

 

 

If you can't afford something that doesn't give you the right to take it. Or in this case, copy it. You might say it should be legal, but that doesn't make it morally right.

 

But if he can't afford it, that means he would never actually pay for the game, so if he copies it for free, it actually does not harm anyone at all, nobody loses out, in fact somebody wins, so it's not morally wrong in any conceivable way.

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sivispacem
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#93

Posted 15 December 2013 - 10:36 AM

Making copies of movies is illegal indeed (even for personal use it seems), but watching a movie at a friend's house or borrowing it from him isn't. There is no difference between watching the movie with a friend\borrowing it and downloading the movie if you delete the files afterwards.

Yes there is. You're still bringing an additional copy into circulation, albeit temporarily. It's more like copying someone else's film, watching it, and then destroying the copy. Which would be every bit as illegal as copying it and not destroying the copy. It's false equivalence, plain and simple, and I don't understand why tacit supporters of piracy have to try and justify their illegal activity with nonsensical examples and comparisons that don't make sense. The vast majority of people who don't engage in it really don't care so they only person you're trying to justify it to is yourself. And if that isn't the sign of a guilty conscience, I don't know what is.

Fireman
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#94

Posted 16 December 2013 - 12:09 AM Edited by Fireman, 16 December 2013 - 12:11 AM.

But if you look at Cristian's comparison in morality, would you think less of the person that has a copy of a DVD in his house instead of watching it at his friend's house?

 

I personally wouldn't, heck if it was a movie I also watched in the movie theatres I'd tell him to also watch it (despite me knowing he is going to download it). Would that also make me morally wrong for being a DOWNLOAD-ENABLER?


sivispacem
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#95

Posted 16 December 2013 - 08:14 AM

But if you look at Cristian's comparison in morality, would you think less of the person that has a copy of a DVD in his house instead of watching it at his friend's house?

 

I personally wouldn't, heck if it was a movie I also watched in the movie theatres I'd tell him to also watch it (despite me knowing he is going to download it). Would that also make me morally wrong for being a DOWNLOAD-ENABLER?

 

No, but that's not the point. I don't think less of people who pirate content, the same way I don't think less of people who take recreational drugs. I simply don't care, as I've already said once. If I went round someone's house and they were watching pirated content and invited me to join in, I probably would, and a certainly wouldn't ask them to stop. But that's not the issue or point I was making; the point I was making was it's silly to use various kinds of false equivalence to try and justify piracy to yourself as something that is illegal, but shouldn't be because of X and Y and oh, this is vaguely similar and legal so piracy should be too. Just face up to the fact that, like use of recreational drugs or speeding, it's illegal but if you keep a low enough profile and do it in moderation the likelihood of you ever being held to task for it is infinitesimally small.


TheFoxRiverFugitive
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#96

Posted 16 December 2013 - 08:22 AM Edited by whatsstrength, 16 December 2013 - 08:23 AM.

 

  • What is your opinion on internet piracy?
  • Do you believe it's theft and should be punished as such?
  • Is it morally wrong?
  • Have you ever done it before? (Music, Movies, Games, etc.)

I'd post a poll, but I don't know if I can.

 

-I'm indifferent to it honestly, it's not a large issue for me. It does piss me off how it's being used as an excuse for sh*t like SOPA.

-I don't think it's theft, but at the same time it starves the production companies, artists, developers, etc. of profits.

-Yes, I feel a little bad if I deprive someone of their money.

-Yes. I rarely fool with it anymore.


Kristian.
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#97

Posted 16 December 2013 - 02:13 PM

No, but that's not the point. I don't think less of people who pirate content, the same way I don't think less of people who take recreational drugs. I simply don't care, as I've already said once. If I went round someone's house and they were watching pirated content and invited me to join in, I probably would, and a certainly wouldn't ask them to stop.

 

But that's not the issue or point I was making; the point I was making was it's silly to use various kinds of false equivalence to try and justify piracy to yourself as something that is illegal, but shouldn't be because of X and Y and oh, this is vaguely similar and legal so piracy should be too. Just face up to the fact that, like use of recreational drugs or speeding, it's illegal but if you keep a low enough profile and do it in moderation the likelihood of you ever being held to task for it is infinitesimally small.

 

But you pretty much said in the first post in this topic that piracy is stealing, or you alluded to that. You don't care that your friends\acquaintances "steal"?

 

That's not really what I was trying to do and it's a dumb thing to say that just because I appeared to be defending piracy, I must be a pirate. If you want an even clearer example, watching a movie at your friends house is equivalent to streaming it illegally from the internet. Oh, and don't tell me an additional copy is made, because by that logic borrowing the disk from a friend and playing it would also create a buffer which could count as a copy.

 

Also, for the record, I do pirate stuff from time to time, but I intend to buy the stuff that I like in the future. If I were a true pirate I wouldn't buy multiple versions of the same game (I buy physical copies and digital copies on Steam).


ShadowDog94
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#98

Posted 16 December 2013 - 02:51 PM

 

I understand all of that, hence why I do not pirate, so I am pretty sure my head is not lodged in my ass, nor has it ever been there, concerning this debate at least, I think you should read my post more clearly.

I didn't ask you if it was right or wrong, I was asking how it is the same as stealing when someone isn't physically removing the item from someone else and that someone else isn't incurring overhead losses for the goods.

I understand that if someone chooses to get it for free, rather than paying for it, that isn't necessarily right.
I was curious though, If someone pirates something, but they wouldn't pay for it even if that meant they couldn't use the item, does that make it wrong in any way? Either way nobody is getting money, but at least in this scenario someone's work is being appreciated and someone is gaining enjoyment, if anything the content creator is benefiting because it's free word-of-mouth advertisement which is one of the most effective forms of advertisement in many instances. Text colour added to distinguish between quotes more easily.

 

 

 

 

Figure of speak- it means come to your senses.

Even though you define piracy as stealing or not, you are still taking something away from somebody even though it's not physically. The movie is the directors product that he created, and you are supposed to pay to watch it, this is how the director earns money. This works the same way as the supermarket, they earn money because you buy something, if everyone stole things they wouldn't be able to have the supermarket anymore. When you download a movie, you take something that you SHOULD have been paying for, wether it is a COPY or not. 

 

If you designed a website, and someone took your design, wouldn't you say they stole your design?

 

But wether it is defined as stealing or not- it is still illegal on the same level as driving too fast, punching someone, raping someone or drunk driving.

 

Please tell me you did not just equate downloading free music with raping someone.

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Finn 7 five 11
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#99

Posted 16 December 2013 - 02:58 PM Edited by F4L?, 16 December 2013 - 03:00 PM.


 


I understand all of that, hence why I do not pirate, so I am pretty sure my head is not lodged in my ass, nor has it ever been there, concerning this debate at least, I think you should read my post more clearly.
I didn't ask you if it was right or wrong, I was asking how it is the same as stealing when someone isn't physically removing the item from someone else and that someone else isn't incurring overhead losses for the goods.

I understand that if someone chooses to get it for free, rather than paying for it, that isn't necessarily right.
I was curious though, If someone pirates something, but they wouldn't pay for it even if that meant they couldn't use the item, does that make it wrong in any way? Either way nobody is getting money, but at least in this scenario someone's work is being appreciated and someone is gaining enjoyment, if anything the content creator is benefiting because it's free word-of-mouth advertisement which is one of the most effective forms of advertisement in many instances. Text colour added to distinguish between quotes more easily.

 
 
 
 

Figure of speak- it means come to your senses.

Even though you define piracy as stealing or not, you are still taking something away from somebody even though it's not physically. The movie is the directors product that he created, and you are supposed to pay to watch it, this is how the director earns money. This works the same way as the supermarket, they earn money because you buy something, if everyone stole things they wouldn't be able to have the supermarket anymore. When you download a movie, you take something that you SHOULD have been paying for, wether it is a COPY or not. 
 
If you designed a website, and someone took your design, wouldn't you say they stole your design?
 
But wether it is defined as stealing or not- it is still illegal on the same level as driving too fast, punching someone, raping someone or drunk driving.
 
Please tell me you did not just equate downloading free music with raping someone.
I also thought that, but I didn't feel like arguing the point.
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ShadowDog94
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#100

Posted 16 December 2013 - 03:11 PM

 

 

 

I understand all of that, hence why I do not pirate, so I am pretty sure my head is not lodged in my ass, nor has it ever been there, concerning this debate at least, I think you should read my post more clearly.
I didn't ask you if it was right or wrong, I was asking how it is the same as stealing when someone isn't physically removing the item from someone else and that someone else isn't incurring overhead losses for the goods.

I understand that if someone chooses to get it for free, rather than paying for it, that isn't necessarily right.
I was curious though, If someone pirates something, but they wouldn't pay for it even if that meant they couldn't use the item, does that make it wrong in any way? Either way nobody is getting money, but at least in this scenario someone's work is being appreciated and someone is gaining enjoyment, if anything the content creator is benefiting because it's free word-of-mouth advertisement which is one of the most effective forms of advertisement in many instances. Text colour added to distinguish between quotes more easily.

 
 
 
 

Figure of speak- it means come to your senses.

Even though you define piracy as stealing or not, you are still taking something away from somebody even though it's not physically. The movie is the directors product that he created, and you are supposed to pay to watch it, this is how the director earns money. This works the same way as the supermarket, they earn money because you buy something, if everyone stole things they wouldn't be able to have the supermarket anymore. When you download a movie, you take something that you SHOULD have been paying for, wether it is a COPY or not. 
 
If you designed a website, and someone took your design, wouldn't you say they stole your design?
 
But wether it is defined as stealing or not- it is still illegal on the same level as driving too fast, punching someone, raping someone or drunk driving.
 
Please tell me you did not just equate downloading free music with raping someone.
I also thought that, but I didn't feel like arguing the point.

 

Yeah, not even worth it, haha.


JustOneMonth
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#101

Posted 16 December 2013 - 03:11 PM

1.Ah boo f*cking hoo for the artists.

I don't pirate but i do not find it wrong, when i had no money for overpriced items i did it.

You cannot judge someone over that, i think everybody did that already.

so:

2; Nope.

3;Maybe, depending of what you pirate. But not much. Not enough for jail.

4;Not much, only when younger but not anymore as i don't need to.


BuyMeTheMoon
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#102

Posted 16 December 2013 - 03:31 PM Edited by BuyMeTheMoon, 16 December 2013 - 03:32 PM.

 

Figure of speak- it means come to your senses.

Even though you define piracy as stealing or not, you are still taking something away from somebody even though it's not physically. The movie is the directors product that he created, and you are supposed to pay to watch it, this is how the director earns money. This works the same way as the supermarket, they earn money because you buy something, if everyone stole things they wouldn't be able to have the supermarket anymore. When you download a movie, you take something that you SHOULD have been paying for, wether it is a COPY or not. 

 

 

If you designed a website, and someone took your design, wouldn't you say they stole your design?

 

But wether it is defined as stealing or not- it is still illegal on the same level as driving too fast, punching someone, raping someone or drunk driving.

 

Please tell me you did not just equate downloading free music with raping someone.

 

OMG, really? Is that what you got out of that sentence? You clearly didn't read everything then.

Apparently I'm speaking with kids here who can't read properly and takes the worst possible interpretation without trying to understand what this is about. I said that piracy isn't okey to do because it is ILLEGAL. Just because it isn't THEFT, doesn't mean that it is okay. And this is on the same level as other ILLEGAL things that don't include theft.

I used rape and driving too fast as examples(examples, NOT comparisons or equalities) to explain how different things are not OKAY even if they are NOT THEFT, like it seems that other people in here believe. A lot of people says "Piracy is not theft, and thats why I think it's okay to do it". When people are stupid enough to think like this, they sometimes need obvious examples to be able to see the case from another angle.

Get it? You do know the difference between an example and a comparison, right?

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sivispacem
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#103

Posted 16 December 2013 - 03:33 PM

But you pretty much said in the first post in this topic that piracy is stealing, or you alluded to that. You don't care that your friends\acquaintances "steal"?

No, I said that not all stealing involved physically removing something from one place and to another. I furnished this with examples. My own personal feelings on the issue are rather irrelevant. But the simple fact of the matter is the consumers of pirated content aren't really the thieves. They benefit from the theft but it's the people who rip and host the content who conspire to steal.
 

That's not really what I was trying to do and it's a dumb thing to say that just because I appeared to be defending piracy, I must be a pirate. If you want an even clearer example, watching a movie at your friends house is equivalent to streaming it illegally from the internet. Oh, and don't tell me an additional copy is made, because by that logic borrowing the disk from a friend and playing it would also create a buffer which could count as a copy.

As I've already explained, it's a false equivalence. There's no additional copy that the holder could distribute in the case of watching borrowed content. It quite simply isn't the same. I never claimed you were a pirate, or even insinuated it, I merely pointed out that I find it a little bit absurd that people seem to defend piracy as if it were the same as things that it clearly isn't.

Also, for the record, I do pirate stuff from time to time, but I intend to buy the stuff that I like in the future. If I were a true pirate I wouldn't buy multiple versions of the same game (I buy physical copies and digital copies on Steam).

As I said, I don't really care. But accept that by consuming pirated content you are enabling and supporting theft rather than trying to make up all these bullsh*t excuses to try and justify it as "just borrowing".
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biggsull
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#104

Posted 16 December 2013 - 03:53 PM Edited by biggsull, 16 December 2013 - 03:54 PM.

3108801899dbd5d667d0.jpg

 

edit: I see its already been posted, glad people are on the same page.

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The Yokel
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#105

Posted 16 December 2013 - 03:54 PM Edited by The Yokel, 16 December 2013 - 03:59 PM.

When discussing piracy, the issue shouldn't be the question "is it wrong". Obviously it is. Pirates take for free something that has a price tag on it. The real question is what should we do with pirates. We've all heard and read about outrageous fines and in some cases jail sentences for something that is quite often not very different from shoplifting in terms of damage caused to the owner of the content. The law should be about justice, not about setting an example out of someone who downloaded a few songs.

In today's age of information it isn't very difficult to track down at least some of the pirates. Companies should have some kind of system in place that would send e-mails to those who pirated their content, warning them to pay them the amount of money pirated content was worth at the time of downloading.

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#106

Posted 16 December 2013 - 03:57 PM Edited by biggsull, 16 December 2013 - 03:58 PM.

Well the fact is many bands wouldnt be able to get their music out without free distribution and the spreading of said music by the same people who originally downloaded it. Without piracy, many people would never get off the ground. Its pretty hard to call it entirely bad, especially when were talking billionaires who wont suffer for a moment... One mans piracy is another persons free promotion.

 

There is no more buying a CD for 1 song and finding out the entire album is filler horsesh*t, now you have to make quality or people wont buy it. When something is good and made with love, you can feel the quality and time put into it.. its encouraged to actually support them.. so they make more of the same or better.

 

Its a good model.

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sivispacem
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#107

Posted 16 December 2013 - 04:12 PM Edited by sivispacem, 16 December 2013 - 04:17 PM.

3108801899dbd5d667d0.jpg
 
edit: I see its already been posted, glad people are on the same page.

You mean it's already been covered?
How about I clone your identity so I can take out lots of credit in your name? By your logic it must be okay, as I've not actually taken anything away from you.

There's nothing wrong with a free distribution model, there's noting wrong in principle with peer to peer distribution, but surely it should be up to the content creators to define how people can access their productions?

Also, digital distribution kind of makes your "one good track, rest of the album crap" argument a bit worthless. Not as if there are a million and one legal ways of trying parts of or often entire albums before you buy, is it?

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#108

Posted 16 December 2013 - 06:17 PM

A simple question... if you remove a persons ability to earn an income... is that theft or Piracy? Does it make a difference what you call it?


sivispacem
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#109

Posted 16 December 2013 - 06:25 PM

A simple question... if you remove a persons ability to earn an income... is that theft or Piracy? Does it make a difference what you call it?

 

It makes a difference when people effectively claim that, because piracy isn't the same as the most frequently employed definition of theft, it must not be morally or technically wrong. Though you are right in that regardless of whether people want to define it as theft, it's still obstructing content creators by denying them income. 


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#110

Posted 16 December 2013 - 08:13 PM Edited by slaypay, 16 December 2013 - 08:13 PM.

It is stealing at the end of the day, but I don't feel that bad about doing it and can understand why people resort to these things. Trust me, if I could go out and buy a new DVD for a couple of pounds which I can afford I would happily do that rather than watch a rubbish copy online. They charge so much and most of these people make millions and millions. I may be a little naive because I am not fully educated on the ins and the outs of what damage it does cause but yeah, that is just how I see it. Maybe my mind would change and I wouldn't take part in internet piracy if I knew more about it. 


Have I ever done it? Yes, I watch movies online sometimes.


UtricularEwe001
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#111

Posted 17 December 2013 - 08:37 AM

Since you can't eliminate or even reduce piracy;

obama-deal-with-it-phone-smug-mobile-135
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sivispacem
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#112

Posted 17 December 2013 - 10:40 AM

Why do you think you can't reduce it? It has reduced over the last few years so that seems like a bit of a strange statement.

UtricularEwe001
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#113

Posted 17 December 2013 - 09:03 PM

Why do you think you can't reduce it? It has reduced over the last few years so that seems like a bit of a strange statement.


How?

They imprisoned Megaupload founder but the site came back online in a different country. Same with the Pirate Bay. I'd argue it actually increased significantly.

A perfect example would football manager 2014. Sega reported that over 10 million people pirated it. It took 7 months to crack. It was one of the hardest game to crack yet.

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#114

Posted 17 December 2013 - 09:12 PM

At the end of the day there's much worse things in this world that we should worry about rather than people downloading stuff for free.

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sivispacem
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#115

Posted 17 December 2013 - 09:24 PM Edited by sivispacem, 17 December 2013 - 09:26 PM.

Why do you think you can't reduce it? It has reduced over the last few years so that seems like a bit of a strange statement.


How?

They imprisoned Megaupload founder but the site came back online in a different country. Same with the Pirate Bay. I'd argue it actually increased significantly.

 
One, they never imprisoned Kim Dotcom. He's never even tried so I've got no f*cking idea where you got that notion.
 
Two, online piracy has been decreasing for years:

March 2011
September 2011
December 2011
September 2012
February 2013
February 2013
July 2013
September 2013

UtricularEwe001
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#116

Posted 17 December 2013 - 11:50 PM

My apologies, I did not know he was released.

http://variety.com/2...des-1200614944/

http://www.go-gulf.c.../online-piracy/

http://ethicalfan.co...volume-in-2011/

http://www.digitalmu...tudymediapiracy

http://www.computerw...dly-study-shows

sivispacem
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#117

Posted 18 December 2013 - 08:36 AM Edited by sivispacem, 18 December 2013 - 08:39 AM.

My apologies, I did not know he was released.

 

He never went to prison in the first place, please check your facts. If you want to claim he did, post evidence of this.

 

Some of those figures are interesting and do appear to contradict what I've posted but it's interesting to note that several of your sources claim that all P2P network traffic is related to piracy. which is patently false. More and more legitimate applications utilise the P2P protocol and more and more providers have released shareware, freeware and other free-to-distribute content on the BitTorrent network so it isn't an accurate gauge of infringing traffic.

 

Also, given that internet connection speeds are increasing rapidly, it stands to reason that by one metric piracy could be increasing whilst decreasing by another. If the overall number of people engaging in piracy is dropping- as my sources were claiming- but those who do continue to pirate pirate more content as enabled by faster internet connections, then you would see an increase in pirate traffic even as the number of people who engage in it decreases. Different metrics measuring the same phenomenon producing different results. 

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#118

Posted 13 March 2015 - 07:43 AM

Sorry for bumping the thread, but don't want to start a new one for this news: 

 

SKy.png

 

http://www.mirror.co...and-you-5309815

 

 

 

Basically, Sky customers who torrent will be harassed and blackmailed to pay by some trolls. 

Use VPN for gods sake :D 


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#119

Posted 14 March 2015 - 01:46 PM Edited by SkyHunted, 14 March 2015 - 01:47 PM.

POST DELETED

 

sorry , i shouldn't bump the topic , my bad.


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#120

Posted 14 March 2015 - 02:05 PM

I don't see how people who admit they are thieves by pirating software (torrent/warez), who even boast of it can have a reason to worry about being brought to justice.

Theft is the wrong word? Then how about calling it Robbery, or larceny, the depriving a person of their just earnings.




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