Quantcast

Jump to content

» «
Photo

New York City: Immediately surrender your rifle and/or shotgun

132 replies to this topic
Mr. House
  • Mr. House

    I'm not good with people, but at least I'm not a racist

  • BUSTED!
  • Joined: 18 Oct 2013
  • United-States

#61

Posted 12 December 2013 - 01:59 AM

Calling Americans who oppose your political views or think that maybe a two century old document might not completely apply to today's world anti-American is such a dumb cliche. It shows a profound lack of respect for citizens of the country you share and a severe ignorance in general.

  • Finn 7 five 11 and theadmiral like this

El Diablo
  • El Diablo

    "The Devil"

  • Leone Family Mafia
  • Joined: 03 Aug 2002
  • Mars
  • April Fools Loser 2015

#62

Posted 12 December 2013 - 02:34 AM

It goes against the second amendment.

 

you know, the 2nd Amendment is not special.

lots of things already go against the 2nd Amendment. it's not like the 2nd Amendment has never been regulated in the past.
 

people need to stop holding it up like it's more important than the other Constitutional amendments.

it's not.


Mr. House
  • Mr. House

    I'm not good with people, but at least I'm not a racist

  • BUSTED!
  • Joined: 18 Oct 2013
  • United-States

#63

Posted 12 December 2013 - 02:48 AM

On the note of the constitution:

 

  • TheFoxRiverFugitive likes this

El Diablo
  • El Diablo

    "The Devil"

  • Leone Family Mafia
  • Joined: 03 Aug 2002
  • Mars
  • April Fools Loser 2015

#64

Posted 12 December 2013 - 03:02 AM Edited by El_Diablo, 12 December 2013 - 03:03 AM.

no country is perfect and I love Carlin but he's exaggerating for comedic effect.

we DO have serious rights in the US that a lot of the world remains jealous of and could benefit greatly from embracing.

 

our politics might be f*cked but our individual liberty and freedom of the press is second-to-none.

compare our social liberty scores to the scores of most other countries...

 

http://www.freedomhouse.org/


Mr. House
  • Mr. House

    I'm not good with people, but at least I'm not a racist

  • BUSTED!
  • Joined: 18 Oct 2013
  • United-States

#65

Posted 12 December 2013 - 03:10 AM Edited by Nale Dixon, 12 December 2013 - 03:11 AM.

If you think Carlin was exaggerating for comedic effect then you don't really know much about George Carlin. In his book he explicitly stated that the stuff he said isn't just exaggeration. American individual liberty is certainly not second to none, freedom of the press in America is also laughable.

  • TheFoxRiverFugitive likes this

El Diablo
  • El Diablo

    "The Devil"

  • Leone Family Mafia
  • Joined: 03 Aug 2002
  • Mars
  • April Fools Loser 2015

#66

Posted 12 December 2013 - 03:14 AM

you're talking out of your ass now.

Carlin makes a great point but it's still comedy.

 

the US enjoys real freedoms that many people around the world would still kill for.

I didn't say American journalism was great. it's pretty damn shallow right now. but IT IS still more free than the vast majority of media and press in almost any other nation on the planet.

  • Mince likes this

theadmiral
  • theadmiral

    Founder And Opening Batsman: Vinewood Cricket Club

  • The Precinct
  • Joined: 26 Sep 2013
  • Trinidad-and-Tobago

#67

Posted 12 December 2013 - 03:19 AM

 

 

the US enjoys real freedoms that many people around the world would still kill for.

 

LOL! Outside of oppressive dictatorships, this is just wrong.

  • Revenge of the Donut likes this

Mr. House
  • Mr. House

    I'm not good with people, but at least I'm not a racist

  • BUSTED!
  • Joined: 18 Oct 2013
  • United-States

#68

Posted 12 December 2013 - 03:28 AM

you're talking out of your ass now.

Carlin makes a great point but it's still comedy.

 

the US enjoys real freedoms that many people around the world would still kill for.

I didn't say American journalism was great. it's pretty damn shallow right now. but IT IS still more free than the vast majority of media and press in almost any other nation on the planet.

Okay, think whatever you want, but the man has explicitly stated that his views weren't wacky exaggerations or condoning or condemnations of th world. He said this outside of comedy in interviews and was very serious about this, he essentially thought humanity is f*cked. I don't really care if you believe it or not, he said it in writing and on camera.

 

Regardless of whether other people 'would kill' for American liberties, that's not a good enough way to set a standard. Saudi Arabian women would kill to have the same rights as egyptian women. Ethiopian gays would kill to have the same rights as Russian gays.

 

Our western countries being somewhat better than autocratic dictatorships doesn't mean it's cool to hang up your hat and say things are peachy. Things are not fine.


TheFoxRiverFugitive
  • TheFoxRiverFugitive

    Sly Fox

  • Facade Corporation
  • Joined: 08 Feb 2012
  • United-States

#69

Posted 12 December 2013 - 05:10 AM

If you think Carlin was exaggerating for comedic effect then you don't really know much about George Carlin. In his book he explicitly stated that the stuff he said isn't just exaggeration. American individual liberty is certainly not second to none, freedom of the press in America is also laughable.

THIS IS A POLICE STATE. DID YOU KNOW THAT IN A POLICE STATE YOU CAN PROTEST AND COMPLAIN ON THE INTERNET???


El Diablo
  • El Diablo

    "The Devil"

  • Leone Family Mafia
  • Joined: 03 Aug 2002
  • Mars
  • April Fools Loser 2015

#70

Posted 12 December 2013 - 06:47 AM Edited by El_Diablo, 12 December 2013 - 06:52 AM.

 

the US enjoys real freedoms that many people around the world would still kill for.

LOL! Outside of oppressive dictatorships, this is just wrong.

 

no it's not.

once again; do some research. I appreciate the sentiment you're aiming for, but you clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

 

the US enjoys a wide array of specific political, social, and legal freedoms that (believe it or not) are not very common outside of the Western world. our politics are silly and our journalism is a little weak, but making fun of that does not excuse the fact that we have serious liberties we take for granted every day; the kind of liberties that large parts of the world remains without.

 

do some research or please refrain from replying with something as ignorant as "LOL, this is just wrong."

start here: http://www.freedomhouse.org/ compare North America with the rest of the globe and look at the details for each category.

 

Okay, think whatever you want, but the man has explicitly stated that his views weren't wacky exaggerations or condoning or condemnations of th world. He said this outside of comedy in interviews and was very serious about this, he essentially thought humanity is f*cked. I don't really care if you believe it or not, he said it in writing and on camera.

you're totally missing the point.

we're not arguing what Carlin believed about his position. we're arguing about how accurate his position is in reality.

 

I also think you missed Carlin's real point.

he's not saying humanity is f*cked. he's saying institutions and power structures are what cause our priorities to be f*cked up. he's saying that "rights" only exist as long as they are respected by those in power, and yes, sometimes the people in charge don't respect our rights. sometimes they try to silence people as they have in the past. but this is not unique to the US. Carlin's point is universal. wherever there are greedy / power hungry people, there will be corruption. your rights are not sacred.

 

but you DO HAVE rights.

and in the US - especially compared to large parts of the rest of the world - you have a relatively large number of rights which are very strong and very well respected by those in power. I know it seems like there are the occasional extreme / sensational examples of the government stepping on our rights. it happens, unfortunately. no power structure is perfect. but if you did an ounce of research, it wouldn't take long to realize that the US government's violation of civil Liberties is MUCH, MUCH less severe than many other places around the globe.

 

Our western countries being somewhat better than autocratic dictatorships doesn't mean it's cool to hang up your hat and say things are peachy. Things are not fine.

ok...

but when did anyone say it was ok to hang up our hat? when did anyone say that everything was cool?

 

no one said that.

I'm simply correcting your overzealous accusations.


sivispacem
  • sivispacem

    I shall revoke the throne, atop the stellar tree

  • Moderator
  • Joined: 14 Feb 2011
  • European-Union
  • Contribution Award [D&D, General Chat]
    Most Knowledgeable [Vehicles] 2013
    Best Debater 2015, 2014, 2013, 2012, 2011

#71

Posted 12 December 2013 - 08:18 AM Edited by sivispacem, 12 December 2013 - 08:18 AM.

Every redneck gun store you go into has the bit about Hitler trying to take away guns plastered up somewhere on the wall.

 
The worst part is that it isn't even f*cking true. Not in the way they mean it, anyway.
 
Yes, Hitler did bring in mandatory licensing. However, this was only in reference to handguns and not long guns. In actuality, the 1938 German Weapons Act completely deregulated access to rifles and shotguns, which previously required both a license for ownership and a license for use as hunting weapons. Unfortunately, the kind of extreme right wingnut who goes on about this kind of thing carefully focuses on the mandatory licensing of pistols and handily ignores the fact that the same piece of legislation actually made getting access to most firearms easier


lil weasel
  • lil weasel

    Shoot Looters, Hang Pirates!

  • GTA Series Staff
  • Joined: 25 Dec 2006
  • United-States
  • Contribution Award [San Andreas]

#72

Posted 12 December 2013 - 09:06 AM

The difference between 'gun toting' Americans and the people of the rest of the European world is that the rest of the world has been living under God Appointed rulers for so long that the idea of freedom is beyond their ability to think of what freedom is.

The people of the U.K. commonwealth have been disarmed and taught to feel good about being unarmed that some can't even think. Much like the North Korean people, bow to your leaders. Your leaders know better than you how to keep the peace.

As men wrote the Bible (not God), so they wrote the U.S. Constitution (and any other constitutions). 

Trying to form a more perfect government (not knee bending to a 'God' appointed) is what our forefathers intended. They knew that once some people get in positions of power those people would eventually try to expand that power. Some (few) people of the U.S. are trying to stay free under the ideals of the Paper, which much to be preferred over the ideals of a single person. Be that person a Hitler, Stalin, Bush, Obama or U.K. politician.  

Disarming the people is key to control.

Look at how Food ('junk') is being outlawed for the Good of the People.

Look how there is no talk of edged weapon control. We have a TV channel devoted to selling knives to anybody that has the Credit Card.

Keeping the People safe is a vote getter, beyond the death rolls, which seem popular in some districts.

Now that aliens can get Drivers License's and other Valid Identification cards, control of the polls will be much easier for the poll watchers...

 

There are too many people in the world today. We need some natural culling of about 60% (arbitrary) to bring it under control. We used to have nice wars to thin the unnecessary populations (Viet Nam), but it didn't work. Only got rid of about 60,000 during the whole war. I think I read the U.S. lost that many kids at home to automobile accidents, each year. So statistically it was safer for a minority teen to in the war zone.

 

So, it appears we need to make the urban streets safe. The only way to do that is to remove weapons of all kinds from the people (all the people). If there is one gun or bullet left in the hands of the people that gun and bullet will make it to the urban crime zone.  

 

Now, what about Bows & Arrows? Sling Shoots? Two-by-Fours? When will protecting the people end?

Take away the table flatware?

Put machine shops (especially in tech schools) under observant armed guard?

 

Confiscation by taxation was the easiest way back in the thirties. (200$US for a tax stamp to own a machinegun, plus permission from the local Police authority.)

 

The people do not need  weapons, IF the government employees are honest and loyal.


sivispacem
  • sivispacem

    I shall revoke the throne, atop the stellar tree

  • Moderator
  • Joined: 14 Feb 2011
  • European-Union
  • Contribution Award [D&D, General Chat]
    Most Knowledgeable [Vehicles] 2013
    Best Debater 2015, 2014, 2013, 2012, 2011

#73

Posted 12 December 2013 - 09:20 AM

I stopped reading that after the first sentence where you all but claimed that the US was more politically free than Europe. Look at basically every democracy index in existence and marvel at the US languishing behind the UK, Western and particularly Northern Europe. Comparing the UK, a country by most independent measures more politically free than the US, to the oppression of North Korea merely because the right to bear arms isn't respected really does demonstrate how utterly pig-ignorant you are.

But I'm sure me picking up on such glaring flaws in your logic is just me "nit-picking" isn't it. I mean, it isn't like such a minor error on your part brings the entire basis of your argument into disrepute is it? Oh, wait...

The rest of your post is hyperbole, hearsay, fallacy,snowball logic and reductio ad absurdum. I'm honestly surprised you didn't refer to cooking amphibious reptiles and claim your detractors were little Hitlers.

lil weasel
  • lil weasel

    Shoot Looters, Hang Pirates!

  • GTA Series Staff
  • Joined: 25 Dec 2006
  • United-States
  • Contribution Award [San Andreas]

#74

Posted 12 December 2013 - 10:12 AM Edited by lil weasel, 12 December 2013 - 10:13 AM.

I stopped reading that after the first sentence [...]
[G]laring flaws in your logic is just me
The rest of your post is hyperbole, hearsay, fallacy,snowball logic and reductio ad absurdum. [...]

What more needs to be said? Making comments on stuff he didn't even read?


sivispacem
  • sivispacem

    I shall revoke the throne, atop the stellar tree

  • Moderator
  • Joined: 14 Feb 2011
  • European-Union
  • Contribution Award [D&D, General Chat]
    Most Knowledgeable [Vehicles] 2013
    Best Debater 2015, 2014, 2013, 2012, 2011

#75

Posted 12 December 2013 - 10:51 AM

So, you aren't going to address the fact that the primary tenet of your argument based on a false assumption and therefore the rest of it is invalid? Thought not. Woe betide you actually rebut someone who points out a mistake you've made and how it undermines your argument instead of playing semantic games.

Having read through it in its entirety I stand by my statement. The inane ramblings of a paranoid geriatric.

Frank Brown
  • Frank Brown

    Big Homie

  • Leone Family Mafia
  • Joined: 01 Oct 2013
  • United-States

#76

Posted 12 December 2013 - 01:18 PM Edited by Vlynor, 12 December 2013 - 01:25 PM.

I stopped reading that after the first sentence where you all but claimed that the US was more politically free than Europe. Look at basically every democracy index in existence and marvel at the US languishing behind the UK, Western and particularly Northern Europe. Comparing the UK, a country by most independent measures more politically free than the US, to the oppression of North Korea merely because the right to bear arms isn't respected really does demonstrate how utterly pig-ignorant you are.

 

The United States is a Republic.

 

That's nit-picking.

 

On the topic of gun control, I'd be fine with a Constitutional amendment regarding the issue, but people seem to think just passing laws is an okay way to tackle the topic. It's not. The Constitution has an amendment process, use it.


theadmiral
  • theadmiral

    Founder And Opening Batsman: Vinewood Cricket Club

  • The Precinct
  • Joined: 26 Sep 2013
  • Trinidad-and-Tobago

#77

Posted 12 December 2013 - 01:49 PM

 

 

the US enjoys real freedoms that many people around the world would still kill for.

LOL! Outside of oppressive dictatorships, this is just wrong.

 

no it's not.

once again; do some research. I appreciate the sentiment you're aiming for, but you clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

 

the US enjoys a wide array of specific political, social, and legal freedoms that (believe it or not) are not very common outside of the Western world. our politics are silly and our journalism is a little weak, but making fun of that does not excuse the fact that we have serious liberties we take for granted every day; the kind of liberties that large parts of the world remains without.

 

do some research or please refrain from replying with something as ignorant as "LOL, this is just wrong."

start here: http://www.freedomhouse.org/ compare North America with the rest of the globe and look at the details for each category.

 

 

Do some research like you, by rehashing the same line over and over again that shows nothing and linking the same webpage over and over again?

 

Have you been in a shell for the last year or have you heard of Edward Snowden and what his whistleblowing proved? That's just one to mention.


Frank Brown
  • Frank Brown

    Big Homie

  • Leone Family Mafia
  • Joined: 01 Oct 2013
  • United-States

#78

Posted 12 December 2013 - 01:57 PM

 

 

 

the US enjoys real freedoms that many people around the world would still kill for.

LOL! Outside of oppressive dictatorships, this is just wrong.

 

no it's not.

once again; do some research. I appreciate the sentiment you're aiming for, but you clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

 

the US enjoys a wide array of specific political, social, and legal freedoms that (believe it or not) are not very common outside of the Western world. our politics are silly and our journalism is a little weak, but making fun of that does not excuse the fact that we have serious liberties we take for granted every day; the kind of liberties that large parts of the world remains without.

 

do some research or please refrain from replying with something as ignorant as "LOL, this is just wrong."

start here: http://www.freedomhouse.org/ compare North America with the rest of the globe and look at the details for each category.

 

 

Do some research like you, by rehashing the same line over and over again that shows nothing and linking the same webpage over and over again?

 

Have you been in a shell for the last year or have you heard of Edward Snowden and what his whistleblowing proved? That's just one to mention.

 

This is a serious question: Which nations would you consider to be more free than the United States in Europe, and on what grounds?


theadmiral
  • theadmiral

    Founder And Opening Batsman: Vinewood Cricket Club

  • The Precinct
  • Joined: 26 Sep 2013
  • Trinidad-and-Tobago

#79

Posted 12 December 2013 - 02:11 PM Edited by theadmiral, 12 December 2013 - 02:19 PM.

Let me go spend an hour or two googling and reading on Wikipedia first so El Diablo doesn't accuse me of not doing "research" LOL

 

Just kidding.

 

In Europe, i'm not totally sure - Australia, New Zealand, Canada, the Netherlands (Europe) are all more free than the United States though .

 

I think the UK has probably slipped into some of the same habits as the US lately. France, Denmark, Ireland are all good also.


Frank Brown
  • Frank Brown

    Big Homie

  • Leone Family Mafia
  • Joined: 01 Oct 2013
  • United-States

#80

Posted 12 December 2013 - 02:26 PM

Let me go spend an hour or two googling and reading on Wikipedia first so El Diablo doesn't accuse me of not doing "research" LOL

 

Just kidding.

 

In Europe, i'm not totally sure - Australia, New Zealand, Canada, the Netherlands (Europe) are all more free than the United States though .

 

I think the UK has probably slipped into some of the same habits as the US lately. France, Denmark, Ireland are all good also.

 

But why do you think they're more free? It's easy to say they are, but why?


theadmiral
  • theadmiral

    Founder And Opening Batsman: Vinewood Cricket Club

  • The Precinct
  • Joined: 26 Sep 2013
  • Trinidad-and-Tobago

#81

Posted 12 December 2013 - 02:33 PM Edited by theadmiral, 12 December 2013 - 02:35 PM.

 

Let me go spend an hour or two googling and reading on Wikipedia first so El Diablo doesn't accuse me of not doing "research" LOL

 

Just kidding.

 

In Europe, i'm not totally sure - Australia, New Zealand, Canada, the Netherlands (Europe) are all more free than the United States though .

 

I think the UK has probably slipped into some of the same habits as the US lately. France, Denmark, Ireland are all good also.

 

But why do you think they're more free? It's easy to say they are, but why?

 

 

Usually this type of stuff is judged (and is judged by me) by a myriad of factors. Security, safety (which ties in to having average joes running around shooting people), expression , relationship freedoms, government surveillance, et cetera. I'm not going to flesh out the laws in each country for you because I don't have the time or inclination, but you may want to go check out particularly new Zealand, the Netherlands, Australia, and Canada to see what i'm talking about.

 

We are living in a new USA, one where the NSA is recording every conversation you have, listening in on some of them, and hoarding your browser data to potentially blackmail you in the future (It has been proven that they tried to blackmail a muslim cleric who had been visiting porn sites to get him to shut up)

 

We are living in a USA where tech companies biggest worry right now is coding their systems so the government cannot spy on their users.

 

Actually, this has always been the USA since decades ago, it is just now common knowledge. The days of the high horse, arrogant "Most freedom in the world" are long gone. We Americans need to accept that our government is mildly better than China's at this point.


Frank Brown
  • Frank Brown

    Big Homie

  • Leone Family Mafia
  • Joined: 01 Oct 2013
  • United-States

#82

Posted 12 December 2013 - 02:36 PM Edited by Vlynor, 12 December 2013 - 02:38 PM.

 

 

Let me go spend an hour or two googling and reading on Wikipedia first so El Diablo doesn't accuse me of not doing "research" LOL

 

Just kidding.

 

In Europe, i'm not totally sure - Australia, New Zealand, Canada, the Netherlands (Europe) are all more free than the United States though .

 

I think the UK has probably slipped into some of the same habits as the US lately. France, Denmark, Ireland are all good also.

 

But why do you think they're more free? It's easy to say they are, but why?

 

 

Usually this type of stuff is judged (and is judged by me) by a myriad of factors. Security, safety (which ties in to having average joes running around shooting people), expression , relationship freedoms, government surveillance, et cetera. I'm not going to flesh out the laws in each country for you because I don't have the time or inclination, but you may want to go check out particularly new Zealand, the Netherlands, Australia, and Canada to see what i'm talking about.

 

We are living in a new USA, one where the NSA is recording every conversation you have, listening in on some of them, and hoarding your browser data to potentially blackmail you in the future (It has been proven that they tried to blackmail a muslim cleric who had been visiting porn sites to get him to shut up)

 

We are living in a USA where tech companies biggest worry right now is coding their systems so the government cannot spy on their users.

 

Actually, this has always been the USA since decades ago, it is just now common knowledge.

 

 

Increased security and safety aren't factors to be considered when arguing that those countries are free (the TSA doesn't scream free to me, for example), but relationships, expression, and surveillance fall under that category, I agree.


theadmiral
  • theadmiral

    Founder And Opening Batsman: Vinewood Cricket Club

  • The Precinct
  • Joined: 26 Sep 2013
  • Trinidad-and-Tobago

#83

Posted 12 December 2013 - 02:43 PM Edited by theadmiral, 12 December 2013 - 02:45 PM.

 

 

 

Increased security and safety aren't factors to be considered when arguing that those countries are free (the TSA doesn't scream free to me, for example), but relationships, expression, and surveillance fall under that category, I agree.

 

 

There is a big difference between the TSA and being able to walk down the street, go to your school, go to your office without worrying about a lunatic shooting you for any number of reasons (psycho, doesn't like the way you look, whatever). In the case of the former, yes, it is not helpful to freedom. In the case of the latter, relative peace of mind certainly does contribute to freedom.

 

I had a neighbor who was just killed recently in the navy yard shootings, leaving behind a wife and kids. He was in his 50s, ex military, and was eating breakfast when a lunatic killed him.

 

The shooter had prior firearms convictions and was mentally unstable, yet still was able to buy guns and get into a secure site to do this.


Frank Brown
  • Frank Brown

    Big Homie

  • Leone Family Mafia
  • Joined: 01 Oct 2013
  • United-States

#84

Posted 12 December 2013 - 02:48 PM Edited by Vlynor, 12 December 2013 - 02:49 PM.

 

 

 

 

Increased security and safety aren't factors to be considered when arguing that those countries are free (the TSA doesn't scream free to me, for example), but relationships, expression, and surveillance fall under that category, I agree.

 

 

There is a big difference between the TSA and being able to walk down the street, go to your school, go to your office without worrying about a lunatic shooting you for any number of reasons (psycho, doesn't like the way you look, whatever). In the case of the former, yes, it is not helpful to freedom. In the case of the latter, relative peace of mind certainly does contribute to freedom.

 

 

No, because your peace of mind is limiting the freedoms of others directly, (to stay slightly on topic, think the right to carry firearms concealed or otherwise, which isn't possible where I am, specifically). Your peace of mind, at the same time, is false. Someone could still shoot up your place of work, your school, etc. You just feel safer while at the same time removing the freedoms of other people.

  • Mince likes this

theadmiral
  • theadmiral

    Founder And Opening Batsman: Vinewood Cricket Club

  • The Precinct
  • Joined: 26 Sep 2013
  • Trinidad-and-Tobago

#85

Posted 12 December 2013 - 02:50 PM Edited by theadmiral, 12 December 2013 - 02:53 PM.

 

 

 

 

 

Increased security and safety aren't factors to be considered when arguing that those countries are free (the TSA doesn't scream free to me, for example), but relationships, expression, and surveillance fall under that category, I agree.

 

 

There is a big difference between the TSA and being able to walk down the street, go to your school, go to your office without worrying about a lunatic shooting you for any number of reasons (psycho, doesn't like the way you look, whatever). In the case of the former, yes, it is not helpful to freedom. In the case of the latter, relative peace of mind certainly does contribute to freedom.

 

 

No, because your peace of mind is limiting the freedoms of others directly, (to stay slightly on topic, think the right to carry firearms concealed or otherwise, which isn't possible where I am, specifically). Your peace of mind, at the same time, is false. Someone could still shoot up your place of work, your school, etc. You just feel safer while at the same time removing the freedoms of other people.

 

In New Zealand you can carry guns and have more freedom in every other category It is about proper vetting, not taking guns away. It is about getting rid of the notion that you aren't an American unless you love carrying a gun around. It is about treating guns with respect.

 

When was the last shooting rampage outside of the United States? Norway , maybe? How many have happened in the US since then?


Frank Brown
  • Frank Brown

    Big Homie

  • Leone Family Mafia
  • Joined: 01 Oct 2013
  • United-States

#86

Posted 12 December 2013 - 02:55 PM

 

 

 

 

Increased security and safety aren't factors to be considered when arguing that those countries are free (the TSA doesn't scream free to me, for example), but relationships, expression, and surveillance fall under that category, I agree.

 

 

The shooter had prior firearms convictions and was mentally unstable, yet still was able to buy guns and get into a secure site to do this.

 

No. He did not.

 

 

 

In New Zealand you can carry guns and have more freedom in every other category It is about proper vetting, not taking guns away. It is about getting rid of the notion that you aren't an American unless you love carrying a gun around. It is about treating guns with respect.

That's fine. That's one of the countries you've named.


theadmiral
  • theadmiral

    Founder And Opening Batsman: Vinewood Cricket Club

  • The Precinct
  • Joined: 26 Sep 2013
  • Trinidad-and-Tobago

#87

Posted 12 December 2013 - 02:55 PM Edited by theadmiral, 12 December 2013 - 02:58 PM.

 

 

 

 

 

Increased security and safety aren't factors to be considered when arguing that those countries are free (the TSA doesn't scream free to me, for example), but relationships, expression, and surveillance fall under that category, I agree.

 

 

The shooter had prior firearms convictions and was mentally unstable, yet still was able to buy guns and get into a secure site to do this.

 

No. He did not.

 

 

 

 

The dude got arrested for firing a gun through his apartment roof into his neighbors. Also, in 2010, he got arrested for firing a gun in public in texas. In 2004, arrested for shooting peoples tires out.

 

Care to elaborate? Do you feel this man should be allowed to have a gun?


Frank Brown
  • Frank Brown

    Big Homie

  • Leone Family Mafia
  • Joined: 01 Oct 2013
  • United-States

#88

Posted 12 December 2013 - 02:57 PM

 

 

 

 

 

 

Increased security and safety aren't factors to be considered when arguing that those countries are free (the TSA doesn't scream free to me, for example), but relationships, expression, and surveillance fall under that category, I agree.

 

 

The shooter had prior firearms convictions and was mentally unstable, yet still was able to buy guns and get into a secure site to do this.

 

No. He did not.

 

 

 

 

The dude got arrested for firing a gun through his apartment roof into his neighbors.

 

 

That's great. That's not a conviction, that's an arrest. If you had your freedoms stripped just because you were arrested, the justice system wouldn't be, well, just. That's guilty until proven innocent.

 

He was never prosecuted prior to the shooting.


theadmiral
  • theadmiral

    Founder And Opening Batsman: Vinewood Cricket Club

  • The Precinct
  • Joined: 26 Sep 2013
  • Trinidad-and-Tobago

#89

Posted 12 December 2013 - 03:00 PM Edited by theadmiral, 12 December 2013 - 03:01 PM.

So you think it's perfectly fine for a guy with that type of record to still have a gun. This is what is wrong with America. You fire it through your neighbors roof, you shoot it willy nilly down in Texas, you shoot out peoples tires with your gun, and you still have people defending your right to have one.  Meanwhile you are confessing to shrinks about hearing voices and getting disciplined over and over in the navy. As a gun owner with some sense of pride, i'd think you'd have more respect for firearms than this.


Frank Brown
  • Frank Brown

    Big Homie

  • Leone Family Mafia
  • Joined: 01 Oct 2013
  • United-States

#90

Posted 12 December 2013 - 03:02 PM Edited by Vlynor, 12 December 2013 - 03:02 PM.

So you think it's perfectly fine for a guy with that type of record to still have a gun. This is what is wrong with America. You fire it through your neighbors roof, you shoot it willy nilly down in Texas, you shoot out peoples tires with your gun, and you still have people defending your right to have one. As a gun owner with some sense of pride, i'd think you'd have more respect for firearms than this.

 

I'm speaking as an American, not a gun owner. I would've thought you'd have respect for our justice system. The man was never found guilty prior to the shooting. He was never prosecuted. You do not take the rights/freedoms of a man or woman away because they are arrested, you take them away when they're found guilty. 

  • Mince likes this




1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users