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Who's the spook in the room?

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RAS_ZeroZ
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#1

Posted 10 December 2013 - 12:56 AM Edited by RAS_ZeroZ, 10 December 2013 - 12:57 AM.

http://www.theguardi...aft-second-life

 

To the National Security Agency analyst writing a briefing to his superiors, the situation was clear: their current surveillance efforts were lacking something. The agency's impressive arsenal of cable taps and sophisticated hacking attacks was not enough. What it really needed was a horde of undercover Orcs.

That vision of spycraft sparked a concerted drive by the NSA and its UK sister agency GCHQ to infiltrate the massive communities playing online games, according to secret documents disclosed by whistleblower Edward Snowden.

 

...[continued]

 

The NSA document, written in 2008 and titled Exploiting Terrorist Use of Games & Virtual Environments, stressed the risk of leaving games communities under-monitored, describing them as a "target-rich communications network" where intelligence targets could "hide in plain sight".

Games, the analyst wrote, "are an opportunity!". According to the briefing notes, so many different US intelligence agents were conducting operations inside games that a "deconfliction" group was required to ensure they weren't spying on, or interfering with, each other.

 

 

There's also mention of the NSA recruiting informants.  Which wouldn't surprise me at all considering all of the brown nosing snitchers in this game.  Ever get the feeling someone you're playing with is a law breaking NSA contractor?

 

[disclosure: I have no affiliation with and have never been in contact with the NSA]


Rudy
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#2

Posted 10 December 2013 - 01:16 AM

I think it's probably more like a couple agents were playing WoW at work and when a supervisor asked them what they
were doing and this was their instantly made up answer.
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Frank Brown
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#3

Posted 10 December 2013 - 01:21 AM

I found the topic title slightly racist, sir. 

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Eris
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#4

Posted 10 December 2013 - 01:22 AM

I'm so glad my tax dollars are being spent on this. Makes me feel so much safer.

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The-King
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#5

Posted 10 December 2013 - 01:27 AM Edited by The-King, 10 December 2013 - 01:28 AM.

I think it's probably more like a couple agents were playing WoW at work and when a supervisor asked them what they
were doing and this was their instantly made up answer.

If you could install WoW on a work computer I'd be damn impressed, sh*t's 26GB.

 

Also, f*ck this repost, sh*t's already in gaming chat and I've seen it posted no less than six times on Reddit in the past ten hours.


Tyler
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#6

Posted 10 December 2013 - 01:31 AM

Fragmented online communities are only going to become more and more obscure as this wave continues. There'll always be markets and venues where criminal action takes place online. It's impossible to get rid of. All they're doing is constructing a panopticon for all the regular people who will try to ignore this for as long as possible until the surveillance becomes too much to take and they misstep.

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Crazyeighties
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#7

Posted 10 December 2013 - 01:52 AM

I found the topic title slightly racist, sir. 

I know right?

TheFoxRiverFugitive
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#8

Posted 10 December 2013 - 02:14 AM

I'll say it again: this isn't a big deal. Why is there such a fuss over this whole NSA surveillance fiasco that's been going on this year? If you don't have anything to hide then what's the issue?


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#9

Posted 10 December 2013 - 02:23 AM

I'll say it again: this isn't a big deal. Why is there such a fuss over this whole NSA surveillance fiasco that's been going on this year? If you don't have anything to hide then what's the issue?

 

Let the police search your car, your house, and all of your personal possessions without a warrant then.

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Crazyeighties
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#10

Posted 10 December 2013 - 02:26 AM

I'll say it again: this isn't a big deal. Why is there such a fuss over this whole NSA surveillance fiasco that's been going on this year? If you don't have anything to hide then what's the issue?


Agreed

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#11

Posted 10 December 2013 - 02:28 AM

 

I found the topic title slightly racist, sir. 

I know right?

 

Spook means spy.. motards.

 

Anyways, I wouldn't doubt the NSA would try and keep tabs of anything where people congregate.. common sense.

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John Smith
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#12

Posted 10 December 2013 - 02:28 AM

I found the topic title slightly racist, sir. 

 

 

 

I found the topic title slightly racist, sir. 

I know right?

 

 

"Spook" = racist?

 

Does this have anything to do with kids dressing up as ghosts on Halloween resembling the KKK by any chance?


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#13

Posted 10 December 2013 - 02:31 AM

 

I found the topic title slightly racist, sir. 

 

 

 

I found the topic title slightly racist, sir. 

I know right?

 

 

"Spook" = racist?

 

Does this have anything to do with kids dressing up as ghosts on Halloween resembling the KKK by any chance?

 

 

 

http://www.urbandict....php?term=spook


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#14

Posted 10 December 2013 - 02:43 AM

 

 

I found the topic title slightly racist, sir. 

 

 

 

I found the topic title slightly racist, sir. 

I know right?

 

 

"Spook" = racist?

 

Does this have anything to do with kids dressing up as ghosts on Halloween resembling the KKK by any chance?

 

 

 

http://www.urbandict....php?term=spook

 

 

Sorry, but this made me chuckle...

 

 

A word to discribe a black person. Normally used by older folks in their mid 70's.

 

(Very old man sitting on his pourch enjoying a nice glass of Lemonade.)"I sure hope them spooks walkin' by don't pluck a watermellon from my garden."

 

 

So what now, is "spook" to become a no-go word to use?


Otter
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#15

Posted 10 December 2013 - 03:05 AM

I really despise the 'if you don't have anything to hide" argument. I have EVERYTHING to hide. My private life is not for another's consumption. Were it purely altruistic, then maybe, just maybe, I'd have less of an issue. But it isn't and can not possibly be free from any agenda.
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Eris
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#16

Posted 10 December 2013 - 03:29 AM

http://www.nytimes.c...anted=all&_r=1

 

If you aren't doing anything wrong you've nothing to hide. :rol: The naiveté of some people.

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RAS_ZeroZ
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#17

Posted 10 December 2013 - 03:58 AM Edited by RAS_ZeroZ, 10 December 2013 - 04:04 AM.

 

 

I found the topic title slightly racist, sir. 

 

 

 

I found the topic title slightly racist, sir. 

I know right?

 

 

"Spook" = racist?

 

Does this have anything to do with kids dressing up as ghosts on Halloween resembling the KKK by any chance?

 

 

 

http://www.urbandict....php?term=spook

 

 

That urban dictionary reference is so weird and wildly strange for anybody that grew up before the 2000s.. there's nothing racist about the term spook.  Whoever decided that is probably a spook themselves.


biggsull
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#18

Posted 10 December 2013 - 04:06 AM Edited by biggsull, 10 December 2013 - 04:18 AM.

The California-based producer of World of Warcraft said neither the NSA nor GCHQ had sought its permission to gather intelligence inside the game. "We are unaware of any surveillance taking place," said a spokesman for Blizzard Entertainment. "If it was, it would have been done without our knowledge or permission."

 

 

Thats absolute bullsh*t, from someone who spent ~ 5 years on that game, we knew back in 2008 the US government was watching WoW... I forget how but it wasnt a big secret, it was out there for anyone to find out.

 

Blizzard knows it too, they were complicit with it.

 

Apparently theres an open letter from 8 tech giants, all of whom have gladly worked with the NSA and have built back doors into their technology, asking the NSA to stop monitoring so many things because they could lose 35 billion dollars in revenue over the next few years.

 

all of whom have gladly worked with the NSA and have built back doors into their technology

 

 

Yea, Im sure that letter is genuine. Im sure Google, the makers of glass and the electronic barcode... doesnt like the NSA surveillance. /sarcasm

 

 

 

I really despise the 'if you don't have anything to hide" argument. I have EVERYTHING to hide. My private life is not for another's consumption. Were it purely altruistic, then maybe, just maybe, I'd have less of an issue. But it isn't and can not possibly be free from any agenda.

 

I posted this just today in another thread, its the exact same topic pretty much...

 

Someone said that exact same thing, if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to be afraid of.. touched a nerve so I set out to totally destroy all arguments like that.. and the people posting tinfoil hats. I posted that video, said spend the 10 minutes watching it and tell me "If you have nothing to hide you have nothing to be afraid of" and that there is nothing wrong today.

 

People stopped replying by the third page I had so many points... check it out of you are invested in these types of arguments at all.

 

http://gtaforums.com...e-gone-too-far/

 

I dont link threads normally, it is the exact same topic tho really and I made a big effort to counter that one remark among others.


biggsull
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#19

Posted 10 December 2013 - 04:13 AM Edited by biggsull, 10 December 2013 - 04:18 AM.

Sorry, double post... moved it above.


TheFoxRiverFugitive
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#20

Posted 10 December 2013 - 04:25 AM

 

I'll say it again: this isn't a big deal. Why is there such a fuss over this whole NSA surveillance fiasco that's been going on this year? If you don't have anything to hide then what's the issue?

 

Let the police search your car, your house, and all of your personal possessions without a warrant then.

 

This is about online privacy invasion, not home raiding. We technically don't "own" our e-mails, they are privileges afforded to us by large companies like AOL, Yahoo, Microsoft and other businesses. The same goes for subscription-based services like World of Warcraft and Xbox Live, so you really have no grounds to complain.


biggsull
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#21

Posted 10 December 2013 - 04:29 AM Edited by biggsull, 10 December 2013 - 04:54 AM.

 

 

I'll say it again: this isn't a big deal. Why is there such a fuss over this whole NSA surveillance fiasco that's been going on this year? If you don't have anything to hide then what's the issue?

 

Let the police search your car, your house, and all of your personal possessions without a warrant then.

 

This is about online privacy invasion, not home raiding. We technically don't "own" our e-mails, they are privileges afforded to us by large companies like AOL, Yahoo, Microsoft and other businesses. The same goes for subscription-based services like World of Warcraft and Xbox Live, so you really have no grounds to complain.

 

 

Emails are the same thing as regular mails in terms of the law. Its equal to them opening all your letters before they get to you, putting them back in new envelopes.

 

Would you be okay with that?

 

Regardless of how they have it worded, they are bound by the constitution when it comes to US citizens... which kinda has a part about "searches".. it frowns on them in general, especially mass searches of everyone without any personal justification and a warrant etc.

 

In an online chat room where people all post and it shows up instantly, that is different from an email, in terms of the law... That is legal for them, Im not sure where the line is drawn exactly but I know for a fact that your hotmail or gmail account or w.e is protected by law and the NSA snooping is illegal in regards to those.

 

Deep packet inspection is also illegal, the NSA does that... They have a law somewhere that says the NSA is not bound by ANY laws of the land, its not actually valid or legal but it says they dont have to listen to the constitution. There was no consensus on an amendment so it doesnt really stand up legally, the thing is.. its all just words on paper, what people do is totally different...

 

The 16th amendment was never ratified by the minimum number of states for example, income tax is unconstitutional.

 

George Carlin had some good opinions on "rights" if you felt like digging.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edit

 

Who's the spook in the room?

 

This guy! lol

 

http://gtaforums.com...our-neighbours/

 

[*]Drug Use? Past/Present/Future?:

 

[*]Capitalism or Communism?:

 

[*]1. shoplifted?[/b]
[*]2. sped?
[*]3. committed acts of vandalism?
[*]4. murdered?
[*]5. committed acts of terrorism?:[/list]

 

All things he wants to know LOL

 

[*]5. committed acts of terrorism?:[/list]

 

Are they really that obvious about it? lol....


WBaker
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#22

Posted 10 December 2013 - 06:08 AM

sh*t gets out of hand if people don't actively do anything to stop it. Look at America's senile parent, Britain, being locked in an old folks home where they can't watch certain things.

There is still safety in numbers. No matter how much tech stores things people actually have to make the call. Spam the hell out of the tech with flagged keywords.

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#23

Posted 10 December 2013 - 06:20 AM

I've got Sam Fisher under my bed.

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#24

Posted 10 December 2013 - 08:13 AM

 

I found the topic title slightly racist, sir. 

I know right?

 

Obviously it wasn't used as a racial slur, it was used to describe spies as already mentioned. 
There's even a damn TV show called "Spooks"


sivispacem
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#25

Posted 10 December 2013 - 08:31 AM

 

Emails are the same thing as regular mails in terms of the law. Its equal to them opening all your letters before they get to you, putting them back in new envelopes.

 

 

Can I just interject here and point out that, legally, they most certainly aren't. The owner of electronic communications is outlined in the Terms of Service of the service provider, and more often than not it's the service provider themselves. So, even if you were correct in saying that emails were viewed with the same attitude as normal mail- which I'm fairly certain isn't actually true either given the confusing nature of contract law around electronic communications- it still wouldn't be the case in practice because more often than not you don't actually own your private data, someone else does.

 

As for the use of games for surveillance, it doesn't surprise me at all. Why would it? Already people disclose a huge amount of their lives in the public sphere via the internet and there are less restrictions on collecting that data somewhere like in an online game, where there's no expectation of privacy as you're effectively using someone else's service. This is part of the problem nowadays, though- people get very upset about the idea that someone is collecting their emails, yet are perfectly happy to spill their secrets all over publicly accessible social networking sites or forums. It's amazing what you can dig up on people using open source intelligence- and that goes for people who really should have much better operational security. Case in point- people sharing usernames between Facebook and web forums where they discuss drug dealing.


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#26

Posted 10 December 2013 - 09:02 AM

SMS and instant messaging and such are under different laws from Email.. They are supposed to need a warrant to search your email, there is a "PHISA" court or something, Im not sure the real acronym.. but they just rubberstamp anything that is sent to them.

 

Emails are supposed to be protected, at least in the US. It doesnt matter if hotmail or w.e says you dont own them, technically I dont think you actually "own" your mail until it gets to you, although tampering with mail while in transit is obviously a big deal.

 

Even if legally you dont own the emails, that doesnt instantly mean they can do whatever they want with it... it also doesnt mean the government can go in on their own and intercept the packages with deep packet inspection.


sivispacem
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#27

Posted 10 December 2013 - 09:22 AM Edited by sivispacem, 10 December 2013 - 09:25 AM.

The big tech providers have been granting access to individuals' email data based on the principle that as their T&C claim that data belongs to them and not the user, they can do what they want with it. Personally I find the fact that most of them engage in data mining of user's emails and sell the processed output to advertising providers and other interested parties far more abhorrent than I do the fact they permit law enforcement access to it.

Also, in reference to one of the other comments above, the ECHELON keywords hoax is just that- a hoax. If you really think it would be possible to confuse automated intelligence collection systems with nonsensical strings of keywords then you really have absolutely no idea how even the most rudimentary forensic data analysis works.

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#28

Posted 10 December 2013 - 09:44 AM

sh*t gets out of hand if people don't actively do anything to stop it. Look at America's senile parent, Britain, being locked in an old folks home where they can't watch certain things.

There is still safety in numbers. No matter how much tech stores things people actually have to make the call. Spam the hell out of the tech with flagged keywords.

I would LOVE to know where you're getting your information about the UK.

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#29

Posted 10 December 2013 - 09:57 AM Edited by Typhus, 10 December 2013 - 10:01 AM.

 

sh*t gets out of hand if people don't actively do anything to stop it. Look at America's senile parent, Britain, being locked in an old folks home where they can't watch certain things.

There is still safety in numbers. No matter how much tech stores things people actually have to make the call. Spam the hell out of the tech with flagged keywords.

I would LOVE to know where you're getting your information about the UK.

 

He's right, though.

Drawing certain cartoons is against the law here. I couldn't quite believe it when I read about that specific law, it was passed in 2008, I believe. We are censoring art that we don't understand, that appeals to an already marginalised demographic.

Then we've got the planned block on internet porn that will force us to sign away our details so the government can spy on us. I always said this country was full of prudes and bigoted reactionaries, and I've not been proved wrong yet.

Seriously, in this f*cking country you could cancel free elections as long as you claimed it was to protect 'the children'.


WBaker
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#30

Posted 10 December 2013 - 10:22 AM

sh*t gets out of hand if people don't actively do anything to stop it. Look at America's senile parent, Britain, being locked in an old folks home where they can't watch certain things.

There is still safety in numbers. No matter how much tech stores things people actually have to make the call. Spam the hell out of the tech with flagged keywords.

I would LOVE to know where you're getting your information about the UK.

The Associated Press.




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