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Is it illegal to sell GTA$ Online?

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Sckarface
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#1

Posted 02 December 2013 - 08:49 PM

Before someone says i'm trolling, I assure you, I'm not. I've made a lot of money on GTA Online and I'm wondering if I sell GTA$ to other players, will there be a possibility of me getting banned?


LeSuede
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#2

Posted 02 December 2013 - 08:50 PM Edited by LeSuede, 02 December 2013 - 08:52 PM.

Yes. Definitely.

You aren't allowed to make any sort of financial gains using Rockstar's IP or assets.

 

Don't try to go all chinese farmer on us now, ok?

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Lee Everett
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#3

Posted 02 December 2013 - 08:51 PM Edited by GTA4 Niko Bellic, 02 December 2013 - 08:51 PM.

Idk because that's like saying, is it illegal to sell my Xbox 360.

 

Is it against Rockstar's TOS? Yes definitely. Illegal? That's a touchy subject - I say no.


Legendstig
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#4

Posted 02 December 2013 - 08:53 PM

Lmao yes expect a console id ban, mac ban, ps id ban, r* ban and an ip ban.

Do all that and you should be good to go, if not its not for you.

Also people give money for free like me.....

jdice1980
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#5

Posted 02 December 2013 - 08:57 PM

Idk because that's like saying, is it illegal to sell my Xbox 360.

 

Is it against Rockstar's TOS? Yes definitely. Illegal? That's a touchy subject - I say no.

 

When you get in trouble with the FBI for doing so...remember you can now sue this guy...since he's given you bad legal advice...and you acted on it...and he isn't an attorney...

 

What I'm saying is in the US if you give legal advice, but aren't a licensed attorney and someone acts on it to their detriment you are yourself liable and a civil case can be brought against you.


Lee Everett
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#6

Posted 02 December 2013 - 09:05 PM Edited by GTA4 Niko Bellic, 02 December 2013 - 09:06 PM.

 

Idk because that's like saying, is it illegal to sell my Xbox 360.

 

Is it against Rockstar's TOS? Yes definitely. Illegal? That's a touchy subject - I say no.

 

When you get in trouble with the FBI for doing so...remember you can now sue this guy...since he's given you bad legal advice...and you acted on it...and he isn't an attorney...

 

What I'm saying is in the US if you give legal advice, but aren't a licensed attorney and someone acts on it to their detriment you are yourself liable and a civil case can be brought against you.

 

 

Oh save me the bullsh*t. Millions of people sell microtransactions from other games, or "virtual gold". All it does is violate the 3rd parties ToS, but if you're not doing much damage to the company or their intellectual properties they are not going to spend hundreds or thousands of dollars to sue you, to get an attorney, and to take you to court. Oh right, and also damage their own name by doing so.

 

It's not legal advice, it's common sense.


iTz-JoNeSy
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#7

Posted 02 December 2013 - 09:05 PM Edited by iTz-JoNeSy, 02 December 2013 - 09:07 PM.

You aren't allowed to make any money what so ever using rockstars property. If I'm honest, I think you're a cheeky bastard to even be doing such a thing. A typical, dead legged loser that doesn't even deserve to be on this planet. I can also see where your funds go. They go on alcohol and probably drugs.

Also, you won't get banned. You'll get sued by a company far richer than yourself. Rockstar won't have to move an inch from their office chairs. Their lawyer will be enough to take a massive crap on your pathetic little life.
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DirtFarmer
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#8

Posted 02 December 2013 - 09:05 PM


Idk because that's like saying, is it illegal to sell my Xbox 360.
 
Is it against Rockstar's TOS? Yes definitely. Illegal? That's a touchy subject - I say no.

 
When you get in trouble with the FBI for doing so...remember you can now sue this guy...since he's given you bad legal advice...and you acted on it...and he isn't an attorney...
 
What I'm saying is in the US if you give legal advice, but aren't a licensed attorney and someone acts on it to their detriment you are yourself liable and a civil case can be brought against you.

you can also go up to a law enforcement officer and proceed to call them a smelly pig, its legal go do it!!!

i cant imagine the op in a court room, "well jugde you see what happen was i posted on the gta forums seeking legal advice and they told me i was fine so i did it". lol

mbhitman
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#9

Posted 02 December 2013 - 09:07 PM

Out of curiosity, how are you going to transfer the GTA$ to another player?
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iFight
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#10

Posted 02 December 2013 - 09:07 PM Edited by iFight, 02 December 2013 - 09:11 PM.

Why you want to sell them? Just enjoy. Also how you going to send cash to another person? It's not working.


Legendstig
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#11

Posted 02 December 2013 - 09:09 PM Edited by Legendstig, 02 December 2013 - 09:09 PM.

You aren't allowed to make any money what so ever using rockstars property. If I'm honest, I think you're a cheeky bastard to even be doing such a thing. A typical, dead legged loser that doesn't even deserve to be on this planet. I can also see where your funds go. They go on alcohol and probably drugs.

Also, you won't get banned. You'll get sued by a company far richer than yourself. Rockstar won't have to move an inch from their office chairs. Their lawyer will be enough to take a massive crap on your pathetic little life.

What a joke you are on so many levels. You're the first to go on my ignore list.

iTz-JoNeSy
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#12

Posted 02 December 2013 - 09:11 PM

You aren't allowed to make any money what so ever using rockstars property. If I'm honest, I think you're a cheeky bastard to even be doing such a thing. A typical, dead legged loser that doesn't even deserve to be on this planet. I can also see where your funds go. They go on alcohol and probably drugs.

Also, you won't get banned. You'll get sued by a company far richer than yourself. Rockstar won't have to move an inch from their office chairs. Their lawyer will be enough to take a massive crap on your pathetic little life.

What a joke you are on so many levels. You're the first to go on my ignore list.

Nugga, don't make me chuckle my big balls off. He deserved every word I said. I'm guessing you're a bum that breaks the law for an income too.

Legendstig
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#13

Posted 02 December 2013 - 09:13 PM Edited by Legendstig, 02 December 2013 - 09:13 PM.

You aren't allowed to make any money what so ever using rockstars property. If I'm honest, I think you're a cheeky bastard to even be doing such a thing. A typical, dead legged loser that doesn't even deserve to be on this planet. I can also see where your funds go. They go on alcohol and probably drugs.

Also, you won't get banned. You'll get sued by a company far richer than yourself. Rockstar won't have to move an inch from their office chairs. Their lawyer will be enough to take a massive crap on your pathetic little life.

What a joke you are on so many levels. You're the first to go on my ignore list.
Nugga, don't make me chuckle my big balls off. He deserved every word I said. I'm guessing you're a bum that breaks the law for an income too.
No retard ars joke. I earn my living via legit means, but your elitist tone makes me chuckle at how much of an illiterate joke keyboard warrior you must be.

jdice1980
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#14

Posted 02 December 2013 - 09:14 PM

 

 

Idk because that's like saying, is it illegal to sell my Xbox 360.

 

Is it against Rockstar's TOS? Yes definitely. Illegal? That's a touchy subject - I say no.

 

When you get in trouble with the FBI for doing so...remember you can now sue this guy...since he's given you bad legal advice...and you acted on it...and he isn't an attorney...

 

What I'm saying is in the US if you give legal advice, but aren't a licensed attorney and someone acts on it to their detriment you are yourself liable and a civil case can be brought against you.

 

 

Oh save me the bullsh*t. Millions of people sell microtransactions from other games, or "virtual gold". All it does is violate the 3rd parties ToS, but if you're not doing much damage to the company or their intellectual properties they are not going to spend hundreds or thousands of dollars to sue you, to get an attorney, and to take you to court. Oh right, and also damage their own name by doing so.

 

It's not legal advice, it's common sense.

 

 

There is a difference between whether it is "worth" it for an entity to go after an individual and whether the act the individual committed is a crime. People get away with stealing intellectual property all the time because it isn't economical feasible or necessarily good for public opinion.

 

But they don't need to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars suing someone when there is no possible way they'd ever get that lost money back through court awards....but that doesn't mean they won't....just ask Lars Ulrich (Metallica).


iTz-JoNeSy
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#15

Posted 02 December 2013 - 09:14 PM

You aren't allowed to make any money what so ever using rockstars property. If I'm honest, I think you're a cheeky bastard to even be doing such a thing. A typical, dead legged loser that doesn't even deserve to be on this planet. I can also see where your funds go. They go on alcohol and probably drugs.

Also, you won't get banned. You'll get sued by a company far richer than yourself. Rockstar won't have to move an inch from their office chairs. Their lawyer will be enough to take a massive crap on your pathetic little life.

What a joke you are on so many levels. You're the first to go on my ignore list.
Nugga, don't make me chuckle my big balls off. He deserved every word I said. I'm guessing you're a bum that breaks the law for an income too.
No retard ars joke. I earn my living via legit means, but your elitist tone makes me chuckle at how much of an illiterate joke keyboard warrior you must be.

All working class citizens are warriors against the criminals. You just don't know what that feels like.. jobless bum.

Legendstig
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#16

Posted 02 December 2013 - 09:18 PM

OMG the ignore function is brilliant. I don't need to read that narcissistic bigots messages. Ive got a life and i can get over not having the last say on an internet forum, however retards like him are growing their epeen and cant accept not having the last say ;).

Sckarface
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#17

Posted 02 December 2013 - 09:18 PM

Out of curiosity, how are you going to transfer the GTA$ to another player?

Haven't figured that part out yet I guess :lol:


Lee Everett
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#18

Posted 02 December 2013 - 09:21 PM

you can also go up to a law enforcement officer and proceed to call them a smelly pig, its legal go do it!!!


i cant imagine the op in a court room, "well jugde you see what happen was i posted on the gta forums seeking legal advice and they told me i was fine so i did it". lol

 

 

Yes, you actually can call a Law Enforcement a pig and it is legal depending on whether or not you are actually harassing them.

 

Okay to the OP here is your answer. NO, it is NOT illegal to sell virtual goods. But it is AGAINST their TOS and EULA, and by doing so you are breaking your contract in which you agreed to when entering GTA Online. Here is a little snippet I got from their website.

 

http://www.rockstargames.com/eula

 

LICENSE CONDITIONS
 
You agree not to:
 
commercially exploit the Software;
distribute, lease, license, sell, rent, convert into convertible currency, or otherwise transfer or assign the Software, or any copies of the Software, including but not limited to Virtual Goods or Virtual Currency (defined below) without the express prior written consent of Licensor or as expressly set forth in this Agreement;
make a copy of the Software or any part thereof (other than as set forth herein);
make a copy of the Software available on a network for use or download by multiple users;
except as otherwise specifically provided by the Software or this Agreement, use or install the Software (or permit others to do same) on a network, for on-line use, or on more than one computer or gaming unit at the same time;
copy the Software onto a hard drive or other storage device in order to bypass the requirement to run the Software from the included CD-ROM or DVD-ROM (this prohibition does not apply to copies in whole or in part that may be made by the Software itself during installation in order to run more efficiently);
use or copy the Software at a computer gaming center or any other location-based site; provided, that Licensor may offer you a separate license agreement to make the Software available for commercial use;
reverse engineer, decompile, disassemble, display, perform, prepare derivative works based on, or otherwise modify the Software, in whole or in part;
remove or modify any proprietary notices, marks, or labels contained on or within the Software;
restrict or inhibit any other user from using and enjoying any online features of the Software;
cheat or utilize any unauthorized robot, spider, or other program in connection with any online features of the Software;
violate any terms, policies, licenses, or code of conduct for any online features of the Software; or
transport, export, or re-export (directly or indirectly) into any country forbidden to receive the Software by any U.S. export laws or regulations or U.S. economic sanctions or otherwise violate any laws or regulations, or the laws of the country in which the Software was obtained, which may be amended from time to time.
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iTz-JoNeSy
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#19

Posted 02 December 2013 - 09:21 PM

OMG the ignore function is brilliant. I don't need to read that narcissistic bigots messages. Ive got a life and i can get over not having the last say on an internet forum, however retards like him are growing their epeen and cant accept not having the last say ;).


^^^ what this guy doesn't understand is, for my epeen to grow, it requires the community, not him. Lol. :)

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#20

Posted 02 December 2013 - 09:22 PM

gun shot a fire fire fire


Lee Everett
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#21

Posted 02 December 2013 - 09:22 PM

Okay I wrote an entire f*cking essay in my last post and most of it got deleted lol.


Sckarface
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#22

Posted 02 December 2013 - 09:22 PM

 

you can also go up to a law enforcement officer and proceed to call them a smelly pig, its legal go do it!!!


i cant imagine the op in a court room, "well jugde you see what happen was i posted on the gta forums seeking legal advice and they told me i was fine so i did it". lol

 

 

Yes, you actually can call a Law Enforcement a pig and it is legal depending on whether or not you are actually harassing them.

 

Okay to the OP here is your answer. NO, it is NOT illegal to sell virtual goods. But it is AGAINST their TOS and EULA, and by doing so you are breaking your contract in which you agreed to when entering GTA Online. Here is a little snippet I got from their website.

 

http://www.rockstargames.com/eula

 

 

 

LICENSE CONDITIONS
 
You agree not to:
 
commercially exploit the Software;
distribute, lease, license, sell, rent, convert into convertible currency, or otherwise transfer or assign the Software, or any copies of the Software, including but not limited to Virtual Goods or Virtual Currency (defined below) without the express prior written consent of Licensor or as expressly set forth in this Agreement;
make a copy of the Software or any part thereof (other than as set forth herein);
make a copy of the Software available on a network for use or download by multiple users;
except as otherwise specifically provided by the Software or this Agreement, use or install the Software (or permit others to do same) on a network, for on-line use, or on more than one computer or gaming unit at the same time;
copy the Software onto a hard drive or other storage device in order to bypass the requirement to run the Software from the included CD-ROM or DVD-ROM (this prohibition does not apply to copies in whole or in part that may be made by the Software itself during installation in order to run more efficiently);
use or copy the Software at a computer gaming center or any other location-based site; provided, that Licensor may offer you a separate license agreement to make the Software available for commercial use;
reverse engineer, decompile, disassemble, display, perform, prepare derivative works based on, or otherwise modify the Software, in whole or in part;
remove or modify any proprietary notices, marks, or labels contained on or within the Software;
restrict or inhibit any other user from using and enjoying any online features of the Software;
cheat or utilize any unauthorized robot, spider, or other program in connection with any online features of the Software;
violate any terms, policies, licenses, or code of conduct for any online features of the Software; or
transport, export, or re-export (directly or indirectly) into any country forbidden to receive the Software by any U.S. export laws or regulations or U.S. economic sanctions or otherwise violate any laws or regulations, or the laws of the country in which the Software was obtained, which may be amended from time to time.

 

Thanks for that bro.


Legendstig
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#23

Posted 02 December 2013 - 09:31 PM

Im off this now, the ignore function served me well.

Hey can we all chip in, to help buy itz-jonesy a life.

:)

Lee Everett
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#24

Posted 02 December 2013 - 09:31 PM Edited by GTA4 Niko Bellic, 02 December 2013 - 10:03 PM.

Continuing my last post -

 

That quote I provided is important. Because you are not breaking a law, you are breaking a contract with Rockstar which you agreed to when signing into GTAOnline.

 

What will happen is they will contact you and tell you to stop immediately, and yes they COULD sue you, but it doesn't mean they will - it depends on the company.

Suing someone is a process, you will have to pay for the attorney, for transportation, etc. And sometimes, it just isn't worth it - especially if the person you are suing barely made anything off your company. So what will most likely happen is they will contact you - after they find you (which who knows when that is), and then they will 1) tell you to stop or they will take further action 2) end your contract with Rockstar Games and terminate your ability to get into GTAOnline and possibly any future games they create.

 

Keep in mind, they are a company. A company that wants to have a good name, if they sue you, it will become public and it will be in the media. This effects the company as-well and that's why they don't always opt for that choice. 

 

But what you are asking OP is if it's illegal. Your answer is no, it is not illegal - yes, you can be sued, IF they even bother going that far. You are selling virtual items inside a game. Morally I say you shouldn't do it, but you need to know your facts.

It all depends on how much you make and what you're planning to do. Are you selling it on ebay? Or are you doing this professionally with your own website? Are you only making a hundred dollars, or are you making thousands.

 

Because yes, when you are doing this, it DOES damage their company. Because remember - ding ding ding "cash cards". And there you have it "because of this persons actions, our sales in GTA currency in the form of 'cash cards' has substantually decreased", and you will be sued for whatever they lost (not how much you made off it, but what the judge decides. You can only make 20,000, and the judge fines you 200,000).

 

It's a touchy subject, and it all depends on what you're making and how you're making it. And whether or not it's actually worth it on Rockstar's part. Because if you only made $200, they are not going to pay for the expenses to take you to court and have their name damaged - for a lousy $200.


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#25

Posted 02 December 2013 - 09:38 PM

Call me a scan reader, but I didn't notice anything in that TOS that specifically addresses what the OP is wanting to do. Also, if this "transaction" happened how would anyone know except the parties involved?

jdice1980
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#26

Posted 02 December 2013 - 09:39 PM

I'm admittedly ignorant as to whether any law is being broken....

 

You assuredly are breaking the EULA though...and that alone isn't going to get you into legal trouble...

 

However....they have clearly stated their intent to make money off cash card sales. I think you'd be making a dangerous assumption in not considering there may be a law protecting them in this instance. It doesn't even have to be federal law...it could be an obscure state or municipality law that could be argued against you in a creative fashion.

 

That being said I don't think it's likely you'd have to worry much about it. People have been selling cars and crap on ebay...they aren't going to worry themselves about piss ant sales of GTA cash...and frankly I don't think you're going to make enough money to irk them...anyone willing to buy would hopefully be smart enough to buy Shark Cards to avoid any issues.

 

NOW THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT

 

There DOES NOT have to be a law against something for them to file a civil suit against you. And if you sale hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of GTA cash don't be surprised if they do sue you.

 

Ask Lars Ulrich


mbhitman
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#27

Posted 02 December 2013 - 09:46 PM

This is a great discussion, but purely a moot point. You can't transfer GTA$ to other players (without hacking) so the entire discussion is pointless.

However, the business model of undercutting R* cash card prices, (say offering twice as many GTA$ for the same price as R*) would be hilarious.

It may actually be viable if every player couldn't get millions in free GTA$ by doing the LS Customs glitch until their heart is content.

Lee Everett
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#28

Posted 02 December 2013 - 09:47 PM Edited by GTA4 Niko Bellic, 02 December 2013 - 09:51 PM.

There is a difference between whether it is "worth" it for an entity to go after an individual and whether the act the individual committed is a crime. People get away with stealing intellectual property all the time because it isn't economical feasible or necessarily good for public opinion.

 

But they don't need to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars suing someone when there is no possible way they'd ever get that lost money back through court awards....but that doesn't mean they won't....just ask Lars Ulrich (Metallica).

 

You are talking about copyrighted music / Napster correct?

 

http://www.wired.com...s/2000/04/35670

 

We all know what happened to PirateBay and many other digital media companies that posted pirated and copyright protected content on their website (MegaUpload).

 

These companies were distributing files to tens of millions of people in and out. I'm pretty certain this guy won't be selling this to millions, maybe not even a thousand. If that were the case, yes he would be sued.

 

But you can not compare digital media to virtual gold. We all know that everyone sells/buys gold on games like Diablo, and World of Warcraft, yet you rarely hear of a case where someone is actually sued. Does it happen, probably, but to the bigger businesses that are milking these virtual currencies and damaging the economy.

 

Music is taken extremely serious, especially since they aren't even handled by artists most the times but by Record Labels.

 

But let me put it this way. If I download an album for free online -  does that effect the sales of the artist? If I buy gold in a game for free - does that effect the sales on the game? The answer is no - because the game is already sold, so they already made money from you just by you owning a copy. Rockstar will shut down your operations though if it's big enough for them to find you because of the fact that they are selling cash cards themselves.


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#29

Posted 02 December 2013 - 09:48 PM

This is a great discussion, but purely a moot point. You can't transfer GTA$ to other players (without hacking) so the entire discussion is pointless.

However, the business model of undercutting R* cash card prices, (say offering twice as many GTA$ for the same price as R*) would be hilarious.

It may actually be viable if every player couldn't get millions in free GTA$ by doing the LS Customs glitch until their heart is content.

 

But what if he is hacking? I got hacked money....for free...but what if the guy had wanted to charge me first? And I was dumb enough to pay?


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#30

Posted 02 December 2013 - 09:51 PM

 

There is a difference between whether it is "worth" it for an entity to go after an individual and whether the act the individual committed is a crime. People get away with stealing intellectual property all the time because it isn't economical feasible or necessarily good for public opinion.

 

But they don't need to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars suing someone when there is no possible way they'd ever get that lost money back through court awards....but that doesn't mean they won't....just ask Lars Ulrich (Metallica).

 

You are talking about copyrighted music / Napster correct?

 

http://www.wired.com...s/2000/04/35670

 

We all know what happened to PirateBay and many other digital media companies that posted pirated and copyright protected content on their website (MegaUpload).

 

These companies were distributing files to tens of millions of people in and out. I'm pretty certain this guy won't be selling this to millions, maybe not even a thousand. If that were the case, yes he would be sued.

 

But you can not compare digital media to virtual gold. We all know that everyone sells/buys gold on games like Diablo, and World of Warcraft, yet you rarely hear of a case where someone is actually sued. Does it happen, probably, but to the bigger businesses that are milking these virtual currencies and damaging their in-game economy.

 

Music is taken extremely serious, especially since they aren't even handled by artists most the times but by Record Labels.

 

But let me put it this way. If I download an album for free online -  does that effect the sales of the artist? If I buy gold in a game for free - does that effect the sales on the game? The answer is no - because the game is already sold. Rockstar will shut down your operations though if it's big enough for them to find you because of the fact that they are selling cash cards themselves.

 

 

I'm in complete agreement with you on all of this. I really don't think you'd have to worry about anything unless you were selling A LOT of cash. And again...it'd be nearly impossible for them to say Player A got $1 billion from Play B and paid $20 real money for it and Player C got $1 billion from player D but for free....so in reality they are really limited unless you're an idiot and broadcasting that you're doing it....like say on ebay.





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