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A DLC Idea for GTA V based on Jim and Angus

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Grievous
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#31

Posted 30 May 2014 - 05:47 PM

I developed this idea a long way since this original post and some of the details are a bit more fleshed out


Well why the hell was this topic inactive since December?!!

Then again I'm not too sure how the necro-bump posting works on this forum, sometimes I see folks digging up months old discussions and it works out fine, most of the time however I see people basically start a whole new topic from scratch, as to avoid bumping up the old one. It's generally confusing.

Peachrocks
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#32

Posted 30 May 2014 - 11:29 PM

Well why the hell was this topic inactive since December?!


Because I questioned how much people gave a damn :p. It is just fanfiction after all when it comes down to it.

Grievous
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#33

Posted 31 May 2014 - 12:05 AM Edited by Grievous, 31 May 2014 - 12:06 AM.

In this forum, it's either making fan fictions, or reminiscing on good times, or bashing our heads looking for some higher hidden significance in Rockstar's latest exemplary screenwriting method, or continuously shake our head in unison and spit into the same pot for ...
Eight months now, already?

Suddenly I'm beginning to doubt that V's DLC won't reach the same level of quality and fidelity as the Episodes from Liberty City. If it turns out to be true, we're all going to be doubly disappointed.
So we'll need all the dream fictions we can get to protect us from brain melting disappointments.
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#34

Posted 31 May 2014 - 04:48 PM Edited by Peachrocks, 31 May 2014 - 04:49 PM.

In this forum, it's either making fan fictions, or reminiscing on good times, or bashing our heads looking for some higher hidden significance in Rockstar's latest exemplary screenwriting method, or continuously shake our head in unison and spit into the same pot for ...Eight months now, already?Suddenly I'm beginning to doubt that V's DLC won't reach the same level of quality and fidelity as the Episodes from Liberty City. If it turns out to be true, we're all going to be doubly disappointed.So we'll need all the dream fictions we can get to protect us from brain melting disappointments.


I suspected this a while ago and somewhat resigned to it, like beyond caring almost. Still if you want me to proceed I'll organise my scibblings and post em probably sometime this week.

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#35

Posted 31 May 2014 - 10:35 PM

Absolutely.

I suspect we won't be seeing the official DLC for V anytime before Halloween seasons, so we'll have plenty of time to make imaginary scenarios.

Or rant some more in neighboring topics, or just, well, burn down the forum and leave for good, or something.

Sigh ... not boding well is it, regardless of what we do at this point ...

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#36

Posted 03 June 2014 - 02:24 PM

Absolutely.

I suspect we won't be seeing the official DLC for V anytime before Halloween seasons, so we'll have plenty of time to make imaginary scenarios.

Or rant some more in neighboring topics, or just, well, burn down the forum and leave for good, or something.

Sigh ... not boding well is it, regardless of what we do at this point ...

 

Eh, much like Johnny we gotta learn to stop caring about the canon game. At least for a short while until they come out with something else, then we can care a little to give whatever they do a chance and if they bugger it up, stop caring again.

 

In any case...

 

As I mentioned in the opener the DLC in question is very heist focused with a handful of filler missions in between but the emphasis is on the heists. With that being the case I'm going to go over minor details in what would be the first heist and as always the details are very sketchy, hardly set in stone and open to ideas. Forgive typos, I just memory typed this and get into a zone to do it, otherwise it doesn't get done. So mock away... or whatever.

 

Setting up the story (Jim)

Angus tracked Jim down to North Yankton a few years ago but decided to let him live his own life away from the decline of The Lost. Or at least The Lost he knew. However Johnny's continually deteriorating state plays on Angus' mind and knows Johnny is suffering under a terrible weight but of course Johnny will not confide in Angus or even begin to let him help as the meth looks set to take yet another brother from Angus. So he turns to Jim.

 

Jim who is bored out of his mind with his menial truck driving job is surprised but not unwelcoming of Angus' presence and heads out with him discreetly to have a drink where Angus tells him all that has happened. Jim concludes that he can't really help as much as he wants to and decides to leave it at that. However Jackie spotting Angus and Jim leaving fears the worst and it being the last drop in a cup already full with other disagreements, issues regarding their growing son and her belief that Jim cannot live without the violence and activity of his life before regardless of how much he denies it.

 

Jim returns to his empty house finding a note that Jackie had left for a few weeks and to do as he willed in that time frame. Even though Jim knew Jackie was testing his loyalty, he couldn't turn Angus down and he began to think that maybe Jackie was right, maybe he couldn't live without the excitement he used to have. Furthermore he couldn't refuse Angus now he had a real chance to help him. The pair then fly out to Los Santos.

 

New Beginnings (Elias/The Bounty Hunter)

Elias Shannon (name pending) is a former US Army Captain who worked alongside Michael Klebitz. The pair had begun to uncover a conspiracy involving the United States Army, terrorists and Fargoal Security which would become to be known as Merryweather (I don't know if Merryweather's former name is documented anywhere so I put another preliminary name there). However before they could get conclusive proof the pair were court marshaled and dishonorably discharged on trumped up charges before being publicly shamed for being involved in a scandal that didn't exist.

 

Not content with that, Merryweather then attempted to assassinate the pair in Los Santos a year ago while Michael was trying to hook up with his brother, to what end neither knew but there was nothing else left. Michael K was shot and killed at long range but the shot intended for Elias was delayed and wide allowing him to escape. After this Elias met up with Johnny who was clearly not in a state of mind to really help and the news of his  brothers death had hit him fairly hard even though Johnny wouldn't show it, Elias knew.

 

The Lost and Elias had somewhat rocky start due to his 'soldier' personality but because of this he connected to Clay especially who helped him ease into things and shed his skin a little. After this he became close friends with Terry, Angus and two others, Mika Jarvinen a Finnish man who appears as a quiet loner but is quite reliable and Tara Warwick, a very strong and determined woman with a dislike of corrupt authority and has a strong drive to prove herself. Although he rode with The Lost on occasion and Johnny offered him membership he did not want to connect himself with The Lost on official terms.

 

In addition to this he made a reasonable income for himself by working with Maude Eccles who appreciated his no nonsense approach to a job, his reliability and preferring to bring targets back alive with a variety of methods yet still not being afraid to do what was necessary in that despite technically working for the law, he wasn't too fussed on breaking it if the job required it.
 

Things progressed relatively smoothly for a year until the arrival of a certain congressman.

 

An Unusual Bounty

 

Having read up on the details of Elias' and Micheal's trial, Congressman Stubbs knew there was way more to this. He had looked into varying angels of the problem over the year and even his far reaching influence could not unravel the problem entirely. There was clearly much to be gained for a corrupt politician looking to win votes and move his political career and/or influence even further.

 

Unlike Merryweather who were unable to track Elias down despite him hiding almost in plain sight, Congressman Stubbs made the connection between Michael and Johnny Klebitz and it didn't take him long to figure out where he went and then connected him to Maude Eccles. He knew another angle of the case, a woman, Illyena Faustin had been arrested from her new home in North Yankton but Stubbs knew that it was Merryweather who had made that call and that she had been taken to Bolingbroke Prison in Blaine County he wondered why Merryweather would take her there. He knew of Mikhail Faustin but doubted it was anything to do with him, so in order to kill two birds with one stone that may or may not be connected he made a special request to Eccles requiring Illyena Faustin to be sprung from prison.

 

Maude contacts Elias with the details and the congressman himself briefs him on the story and also tells him about Merryweather's involvement and how he knows Elias has a special grudge against them.

 

At this point Jim arrives in Los Santos and travels out to meet Johnny. The conversation is predictably uncomfortable (I'm sure you Grevious have many ideas on how this plays out) and ultimately has Johnny leave in a huff when he learns of Ashley's whereabouts to events that have been well documented.

 

Angus is then contacted by Stubbs who knew of Jim's arrival due to keeping tabs on him to make sure his disappearance which he helped created wouldn't cause him any further problems. Stubbs talks to Jim requesting his assistance in the Faustin case and that a bit of muscle would be required to pull it off. Although initially reluctant to deal with Stubbs again, Stubbs agrees to provide a ridiculous sum for the job, a take of two million to be divided as necessary, fully aware of Jim's financial troubles which changes his tune.

 

The Job

Angus contacts Lester Crest who he considers this to be much more of his forte and the pair come up with three possible plans to extract Illyena Faustin. There are also alternative objectives including another person who is being held unlawfully by Merrryweather and some valuable files, some stored on a hard drive others the old fashioned way which have value to both Stubbs and Lester.

 

A) Full on Assault TLAD Style. Needs no explanation. The benefit is less technical specialties required thus there is more money on offer for the team but the drawback is that side objectives could be destroyed or killed.

B) Stealthy Night entrance. Use of stealth and technical abilities. Unless detected, all objectives should be obtainable but it requires more technical specialty

C) Hybrid. One goes in as a lawyer (Jim) on the excuse to see Faustin before a decoy assault is set up to divert resources. It still requires some technical skill and some stealth to achieve the side objectives but less than previously.

 

The exact details of how the heist itself would play out would remain a mystery but it'd be a little more dynamic than some of the ones in GTA V in which everything almost always goes to plan. The escape route for instance would likely be different in all three cases.

 

It's also possible to hire various characters from GTA IV and V for this and there's a bigger emphasis on this.

 

So that's that for now. I got more inner details but I've crushed people enough with long walls of text.

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Grievous
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#37

Posted 04 June 2014 - 12:41 PM Edited by Grievous, 04 June 2014 - 12:45 PM.

*wall of text barely dented me*
*notices however nobody else is around here*
Fair enough.

And now for my inquisitive comments.

-Jackie's note
Jim's 'Time frame' of doing whatever it is he needs doing, is it merely a narrative statement, or were you considering making the game following the style of an old school 'clock countdown', where Jim has to settle all of his businesses in time?
A gameplay element that acts as a constraint to the player just as how in the form of the narrative it is a constraint to Jim himself.


-Jim's history of violence
Interesting alternative to Michael De Santa's character development, here instead, Jim goes back to the life of crime from his own free will and his own need and urge, not forced into by a third party.

Although there's something slightly sinister of Angus knocking on Jim's door in a frozen snowy landscape ...


-Fly to Los Santos
Not riding?
In the snow?

Catch a train?


-Michael Klebitz's demise as another cause for Johnny's broken state
Interesting, keep losing nothing but his 'brothers'.


-Elias hanging out with the Lost
It's a bit odd that this man who is being targeted by the government doesn't go into hiding and the Lost even allows him to ride with they in broad daylight.
Oh but you lampshade this in the next paragraph, haha, Merryweather are terrible!

Also, are these backstories to the character or actual gameplay sections?
I mean Michael Klebitz's assassination, Elias riding with Johnny and co, working for Maude ... are these gameplay sections or a flashback tale that Elias tells to Jim midway in the game?

I slightly wondered if keeping Elias' relationship with the Klebitzs as a secret until halfway across the story would have been more effective, for Jim especially.
Imagine if during all this time Jim kept working with Elias without knowing how deep his connection was with the Klebitzs.


-Faustin in North Yankton
North Yankton is becoming home to exiled Liberty City residents who don't wish to go through inconsistent character development in Los Santos!


-Maude handling the prison break contract to Elias
Trevor is going to go nuts if he finds out he was ignored of the opportunity to pull this job, he would have used it to spring Brad out and pulling a two-birds-one-stone result himself.


-Jim and Johnny
It's definitively not supposed to be a pretty encounter, even more so if Angus is present and reveals to Johnny that he knew where Jim was.
Johnny will go hysterical at the idea that Angus would have kept this a secret from him, considering how part of the reasons Johnny became a meth head is due to the heavy toll that was Jim's loss.

Although this does raise an interesting question; why didn't Angus told Johnny about Jim? what did Angus had to gain by watching Johnny suffer and then sulk about it?
It's debatable whether the reason Johnny has sunken so low in his life is a result of Jim not being around, or, it would have been irrelevant, that the toll of killing Billy Grey was enough for him to go through this complete dependence on meth.

In any case, to further make the scene gut-wrenching, I think Jim's meeting with Johnny should also be a gameplay segment, not just a cutscene.
The kicker? it's going to be the tutorial for the game's new melee fist fighting mechanic. And the player's last interaction with Johnny is just that, a brawl.


-Stubbs and Jim
So if Stubbs kept tabs on Jim's whereabouts and indirectly made sure Jim could live his new life safe in North Yankton, shouldn't he be pissed that Jim suddenly goes wearing his leather jacket again? and least of all making him go through a prison break?


-Two million
Ah, the ever elusive and doomed number, 'two million', comes hunting again.


-Prison break, it begins where it ended
I find it interesting you as well decided to make a penitentiary assault one of the leading segments of the game.
Just a couple of days ago i updated my 'Lost versus Angels versus Uptown' thread by introducing the Lost protagonist as being recently released from the penitentiary.
No violence though!

At least no violence in the story I was describing, I think the size of my wall of text however was violent to some.
I should open a clinic nearby.


-Heist details
I was thinking that, since in this case we know in advance the sum of the reward money, heist preparations can go in a more simplistic but varied 'deduction process'.
Rather than making the player fetch trucks, clothes, equipment around town, the player is simply presented with a menu with a list of multitude of options that you can choose, provided you still keep enough money for your character's take at the end.

For example going the all out loud method, you can choose to pay for a massive dump truck that crashes through a side of the penitentiary diverting sheriff attentions, choosing this option will deduct a sum from your take.
Other minor alternatives comes from purchasing body armor for the crew, and so on.
Basically a list of optional bonuses that simplifies the otherwise increasingly difficult jobs, at the price of losing cash.

Perhaps in later heists, either Jim or Elias will suddenly show disdain of paying too much for these minor bonuses, and refuse to forgo any more money from crew or equipment cut, forcing the player to make compromises on what to choose.


-Elias and Jim, and the Lost
I see, so the prison break takes place at the same time Johnny and the Blaine County chapter goes extinct, is that how the time frame works?
After successfully earning their two millions, Elias and Jim finds the wreckage at Stab City.
Manly tears were shed.

I'm eager to see how you'll spin the fact that neither Elias Jim and Angus finds out about Trevor and delivers righteous retribution.

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#38

Posted 04 June 2014 - 04:08 PM Edited by Peachrocks, 04 June 2014 - 04:12 PM.

*wall of text barely dented me*
*notices however nobody else is around here*
Fair enough.

And now for my inquisitive comments.

-Jackie's note
Jim's 'Time frame' of doing whatever it is he needs doing, is it merely a narrative statement, or were you considering making the game following the style of an old school 'clock countdown', where Jim has to settle all of his businesses in time?
A gameplay element that acts as a constraint to the player just as how in the form of the narrative it is a constraint to Jim himself.


-Jim's history of violence
Interesting alternative to Michael De Santa's character development, here instead, Jim goes back to the life of crime from his own free will and his own need and urge, not forced into by a third party.

Although there's something slightly sinister of Angus knocking on Jim's door in a frozen snowy landscape ...


-Fly to Los Santos
Not riding?
In the snow?

Catch a train?


-Michael Klebitz's demise as another cause for Johnny's broken state
Interesting, keep losing nothing but his 'brothers'.


-Elias hanging out with the Lost
It's a bit odd that this man who is being targeted by the government doesn't go into hiding and the Lost even allows him to ride with they in broad daylight.
Oh but you lampshade this in the next paragraph, haha, Merryweather are terrible!

Also, are these backstories to the character or actual gameplay sections?
I mean Michael Klebitz's assassination, Elias riding with Johnny and co, working for Maude ... are these gameplay sections or a flashback tale that Elias tells to Jim midway in the game?

I slightly wondered if keeping Elias' relationship with the Klebitzs as a secret until halfway across the story would have been more effective, for Jim especially.
Imagine if during all this time Jim kept working with Elias without knowing how deep his connection was with the Klebitzs.


-Faustin in North Yankton
North Yankton is becoming home to exiled Liberty City residents who don't wish to go through inconsistent character development in Los Santos!


-Maude handling the prison break contract to Elias
Trevor is going to go nuts if he finds out he was ignored of the opportunity to pull this job, he would have used it to spring Brad out and pulling a two-birds-one-stone result himself.


-Jim and Johnny
It's definitively not supposed to be a pretty encounter, even more so if Angus is present and reveals to Johnny that he knew where Jim was.
Johnny will go hysterical at the idea that Angus would have kept this a secret from him, considering how part of the reasons Johnny became a meth head is due to the heavy toll that was Jim's loss.

Although this does raise an interesting question; why didn't Angus told Johnny about Jim? what did Angus had to gain by watching Johnny suffer and then sulk about it?
It's debatable whether the reason Johnny has sunken so low in his life is a result of Jim not being around, or, it would have been irrelevant, that the toll of killing Billy Grey was enough for him to go through this complete dependence on meth.

In any case, to further make the scene gut-wrenching, I think Jim's meeting with Johnny should also be a gameplay segment, not just a cutscene.
The kicker? it's going to be the tutorial for the game's new melee fist fighting mechanic. And the player's last interaction with Johnny is just that, a brawl.


-Stubbs and Jim
So if Stubbs kept tabs on Jim's whereabouts and indirectly made sure Jim could live his new life safe in North Yankton, shouldn't he be pissed that Jim suddenly goes wearing his leather jacket again? and least of all making him go through a prison break?


-Two million
Ah, the ever elusive and doomed number, 'two million', comes hunting again.


-Prison break, it begins where it ended
I find it interesting you as well decided to make a penitentiary assault one of the leading segments of the game.
Just a couple of days ago i updated my 'Lost versus Angels versus Uptown' thread by introducing the Lost protagonist as being recently released from the penitentiary.
No violence though!

At least no violence in the story I was describing, I think the size of my wall of text however was violent to some.
I should open a clinic nearby.


-Heist details
I was thinking that, since in this case we know in advance the sum of the reward money, heist preparations can go in a more simplistic but varied 'deduction process'.
Rather than making the player fetch trucks, clothes, equipment around town, the player is simply presented with a menu with a list of multitude of options that you can choose, provided you still keep enough money for your character's take at the end.

For example going the all out loud method, you can choose to pay for a massive dump truck that crashes through a side of the penitentiary diverting sheriff attentions, choosing this option will deduct a sum from your take.
Other minor alternatives comes from purchasing body armor for the crew, and so on.
Basically a list of optional bonuses that simplifies the otherwise increasingly difficult jobs, at the price of losing cash.

Perhaps in later heists, either Jim or Elias will suddenly show disdain of paying too much for these minor bonuses, and refuse to forgo any more money from crew or equipment cut, forcing the player to make compromises on what to choose.


-Elias and Jim, and the Lost
I see, so the prison break takes place at the same time Johnny and the Blaine County chapter goes extinct, is that how the time frame works?
After successfully earning their two millions, Elias and Jim finds the wreckage at Stab City.
Manly tears were shed.

I'm eager to see how you'll spin the fact that neither Elias Jim and Angus finds out about Trevor and delivers righteous retribution.

 

Yeah, that's why I didn't proceed. Only you seem to want to fantasize and dream and I can totally understand both sides of that one...

 

I know some of it isn't entirely clear but like I said, I needed to get the general message out there, else it just seems too much work to organize it. Then you can question me as you have.

 

Jackie's note is merely a storyline element giving Jim the basic go ahead to not feel as accountable. Obviously it's not the last you've heard from Jackie and like I said at the offset, Jim has to choose what matters to him. A choice that would be made by the player across the story. Perhaps at the start you get a glimpse into his menial boring truck driving job while also easing people into driving something... most DLC's start with something like this anyway. Maybe some monologue on the lonely winter road about the choices he's made, what was discussed, things that happened in the past.

 

Yes fly. Because it is a fairly long distance though maybe it could be done this way for theme as well as showing the fact that Angus rides and is a bit more hands on these days.

 

Technically Michael wasn't forced either. Madrazo gave him a big push for sure but when Franklin came into his life it awoke something in Michael. The similarity between Michael and Jim and how they made their choices differently is definitely going to be a theme once they meet up.

 

Michael Klebitz's demise, especially considering that he'd probably just spoken to his brother on the telephone, basically saying that Johnny was right all along and finally connect on a level they both know and having that taken away from him. Yeah... more downward spiral that I don't want to get into too deeply. As much as some have requested it I don't think people honestly want to see Johnny's decline, that would be depressing as hell.

 

Yes the lamp shading is pretty deliberate. If Wade can track down Michael, it must be pretty easy to stay hidden if the plot wants him to. I considered having him use an alias or significantly change his appearance to fit in more with The Lost and maybe the latter can still be done but the character isn't all 'that' clear to me.

 

After Jim and Angus leave North Yankton, we'd probably switch to Elias. Maybe mid mission with Johnny and co. as they do some things and discuss stuff in a 'this is what has happened' kind of way.

 

I don't see any benefit in keeping Elias' relationship with the Klebitz brothers a secret. It gives the pair common ground upon which to reflect.

 

Illyena in North Yankton. Yeah, I want to actually use the area at some stage hence why it's a bit of a hiding place and I liked Illyena Faustin for some reason. Just how the insight she gives into Mikhail and her own situation. GTA V has far more coincidences anyway so I figure I'm allowed a bit of leeway here...

 

Trevor's not going to find out. Trevor has practically no involvement in the story and I'm hoping to keep it that way. I don't want him anywhere near it and the plot to get derailed on avenge Johnny. Angus of course knows but keeps it to himself, he had been long resigned to Johnny's death and to a lesser degree Terry and Clay's. The reason I think at this stage is that keeping Trevor and Trevor Phillips Industries around opens up other opportunities for Angus because Trevor keeps killing off Angus' would be competition in other fields. Just a way of saying that Trevor is more valuable to Angus alive... and I admit it, the idea of Trevor's stupidity being used against him makes me feel warm inside. Does that make Angus a bit cold? Yeah, but not exactly surprising.

 

The reason Angus did not tell Johnny I have said before. Once Angus had discovered the deception he also knew the reason for it, telling Johnny would have only upset him further. Jim had a family to look out for and he clearly made a choice and Angus respected that choice. Especially with The Lost going downhill the way it was, at least in Angus' mind. They may have expanded or whatever, but the things Angus cherished about The Lost died in Liberty City.

 

I personally don't think killing Billy had as much of a toll on him. I think Brian's faction's betrayal impacted him far more. Billy's decisions and actions came as no surprise to Johnny, whereas brothers betraying him for the sake of power was one of the biggest things he joined The Lost to escape.

 

Personally if things came to blows between the two, I don't think Jim would fight back. I think he'd feel guilty enough to let Johnny beat him, especially after Johnny lays on some harsh truths. Maybe Johnny would shout at him to fight back and maybe the player could decide what to do with it having only bearing on dialogue, but seriously I think we've seen enough of Johnny suffer.

 

Stubbs knew Jim's character and knew he wouldn't betray Johnny so easily. Furthermore, the reason for his fake death has long since passed, he isn't really hiding from anyone anymore. I doubt the LCPD give much of a damn. So like the Stubbs we know and love, he takes advantage of the situation.

 

Yes, that magic number again :). There are other details that I didn't want to get into, such as Abdul Amir's involvement as well as Tony setting up clubs in Los Santos. Abdul Amir has someone he needs liberated as well and his operations in the Middle East are involved in this entire Merryweather scandal too but even his considerable estate does not have the people he needs to deal with this problem, so helping his end of the bargain will increase the magic number significantly as well as open other opportunities down the road.

 

Yes, what you state there is very real. The player needs to balance out resources that are usually known to them at the start rather than it being taken but there are side objectives which increase the pay out because they are valuable to certain other interests. Also yes, while some prep work might be involved it's kept to a minimum. However overextending and trying to go too far could result in lost profits or trying to get another objective might cost more than it is actually worth. It'd be hard to describe exactly how it'd work in game but the idea is clear. Sometimes the heists are more the original style where the exact take isn't known but even there, there is a conservative estimate.

 

I think another thing that might be interesting is a reputation of sorts. If people die on your heists other people are less likely to work for you. This way you do not want to use your crew for cannon fodder while cutting corners as to maximize payout for one job (or worse, kill them at some point to deny them a part of the cut).

 

Oh and as for Johnny's demise. It's already happened, by this point Trevor is driving off to Los Santos just after blowing up the camp because of the fact some organization needs to happen which takes a bit of time. Just after Angus finishes with the plan he tells Jim discreetly what happened but that's another side plot :). I already explained how I plan to spin that neither know who was really responsible and let's just say The Lost who remain are going to be less than helpful on the matter.

 

Anyway, whether I put this into more of a story form to be delivered directly to you will have to wait and see. Yeah I did do a bit in part but even with your post alone I want to change a lot of stuff I've got :p.


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#39

Posted 05 June 2014 - 11:18 AM

-Oh, so Michael and Jim are still going to meet up?
"Hey, I too have got a son named James, and I have to tell you, you're the closest thing to a son that I never had. And I don't use that sentence often, only twice this year."
Just joking, but I find the 'father' angle between the two interesting, although I fear Michael will end up being as unconvincing to Jim as much as he was to Franklin, though perhaps Jim is the wiser one ...

-Seeing Johnny's decline is one thing, but what about Elias?
What is his character's mindset? does he focuses entirely on revenge, business, both, or he adapts as he goes, never focusing directly on one thing only and keeps the table wide open enough to strike when appropriate?
I'm probably just too curious at the moment as to see how does his character connect to Jim, or Michael for that matter.
I can see where this is going if Adbul Amir is involved, but nothing that really connects him as a necessary character in Jim's story.

-True, Jim probably wouldn't fight Johnny ... but Johnny might still attempt to throw a few punches ...
Time to invert the character switch mechanic, one last moment controlling Johnny Klebitz...
Also acts as an in-joke, since Johnny is also the only modern Grand Theft Auto protagonist to not have a scripted fistfight sequence; arm wrestling doesn't count.
Man this is depressing.

-Good point on heist options, it would be too banal and easy if all the player has to do is to 'tick all the available options', a bit more strategizing and logical thinking wouldn't hurt.
Reputations is an interesting mechanic, but tricky to pull; perhaps having a high reputation can also lead to negative outcomes, not just with low reputation.

-*glances at the other neighboring topic*
Speaking of which, how's Ashley?

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#40

Posted 05 June 2014 - 03:15 PM

-Oh, so Michael and Jim are still going to meet up?
"Hey, I too have got a son named James, and I have to tell you, you're the closest thing to a son that I never had. And I don't use that sentence often, only twice this year."
Just joking, but I find the 'father' angle between the two interesting, although I fear Michael will end up being as unconvincing to Jim as much as he was to Franklin, though perhaps Jim is the wiser one ...

-Seeing Johnny's decline is one thing, but what about Elias?
What is his character's mindset? does he focuses entirely on revenge, business, both, or he adapts as he goes, never focusing directly on one thing only and keeps the table wide open enough to strike when appropriate?
I'm probably just too curious at the moment as to see how does his character connect to Jim, or Michael for that matter.
I can see where this is going if Adbul Amir is involved, but nothing that really connects him as a necessary character in Jim's story.

-True, Jim probably wouldn't fight Johnny ... but Johnny might still attempt to throw a few punches ...
Time to invert the character switch mechanic, one last moment controlling Johnny Klebitz...
Also acts as an in-joke, since Johnny is also the only modern Grand Theft Auto protagonist to not have a scripted fistfight sequence; arm wrestling doesn't count.
Man this is depressing.

-Good point on heist options, it would be too banal and easy if all the player has to do is to 'tick all the available options', a bit more strategizing and logical thinking wouldn't hurt.
Reputations is an interesting mechanic, but tricky to pull; perhaps having a high reputation can also lead to negative outcomes, not just with low reputation.

-*glances at the other neighboring topic*
Speaking of which, how's Ashley?

 

Jim is DEFINITELY the wiser of the two. Not that Michael is a slouch, but Michael's greatest weakness is that he's too impulsive. Jim is not. It's why despite the similarities between the two with this storyline the choices made by both characters makes them very different people. It's the biggest reason I kept Michael around and wanted him back in the plot, although also to connect and better finish off the story of GTA V.

 

Elias is normally very 'business' like and professional which is odd for a GTA protagonist for sure but despite this he's also beyond caring about things he might not have cared about before. He's a little conflicted. He only knew Johnny for a year and Johnny was well in decline by this point and having the news of his brothers death delivered to him only saw him go further down that path.

 

Abdul Amir is merely another contact and an excuse to involve lots of money as well as connect him to the Merryweather plot. Just remember that Jim was kicked out of the Marines for reasons that are never disclosed. Clay makes a passing joke about Jim not being good enough but he gets only silence in return. It's one of those 'probably meaningless but could be made meaningful' things. So while Jim even to himself might seem a passenger for this ride, in it for the money and lifestyle he knows, it might not be as much as it looks.

 

Furthermore considering how unlikely it is to be a reality, I don't worry about mechanics too much. Hell, plenty of games (GTA V included really) have a load of really bad mechanics and they still sell. So regarding reputation, it's just an off idea but how would high reputation hurt you? Is that more like notoriety?


Niobium
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#41

Posted 06 June 2014 - 03:30 PM

 

Absolutely.

I suspect we won't be seeing the official DLC for V anytime before Halloween seasons, so we'll have plenty of time to make imaginary scenarios.

Or rant some more in neighboring topics, or just, well, burn down the forum and leave for good, or something.

Sigh ... not boding well is it, regardless of what we do at this point ...

 

Eh, much like Johnny we gotta learn to stop caring about the canon game. At least for a short while until they come out with something else, then we can care a little to give whatever they do a chance and if they bugger it up, stop caring again.

 

In any case...

 

As I mentioned in the opener the DLC in question is very heist focused with a handful of filler missions in between but the emphasis is on the heists. With that being the case I'm going to go over minor details in what would be the first heist and as always the details are very sketchy, hardly set in stone and open to ideas. Forgive typos, I just memory typed this and get into a zone to do it, otherwise it doesn't get done. So mock away... or whatever.

 

*walls of text*

 

 

rockstar, please fire the writers who wrote GTA V and hire this man!

 

comments: if you don't want to derail the plot and make it about trevor, then i think michael de santa will have to be oblivious to the fact that trevor killed jim's friend johnny. otherwise michael will say, "hey, i know who killed your friend so let's get revenge on him!" and the plot will focus on that, and not heists

 

if the player selects option A as the ending, or if option A is canon in your DLC, perhaps jim can know it was some Canadian bisexual hillbilly named trevor who killed johnny after the game is finished. maybe one way jim could find out is if the player chooses to hang out with michael, and michael mentions that he had to deal with "unfinished business"? i dunno.


Peachrocks
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#42

Posted 07 June 2014 - 12:25 AM

Michael is smart enough to keep his mouth shut. He doesn't even know for 100% sure he killed Johnny or who Johnny was. It's like how when Trevor says to Lester about busting Brad out Lester dodges the issue, Michael would be the same. As much as we may wish it, Michael doesn't want Trevor dead except when it makes no sense to kill him which is unsatisfying. 

 

Option C is the ending to me. Yes, it's not a good ending but it's the 'best' of three bad choices and most complete. Ending A does not make sense and I just don't like it because of that, even if it does result in Trevor's death. Furthermore, whether I'm too much of a diplomat or because if this 'were' to theoretically happen ignoring Trevor would be most likely the best scenario to appease to everyone. Involving him means killing him which will create exactly the same thing as happened to Johnny and sure some Trevor fans need a reality check and need to see it from another point of view, it's still not a good thing to get in the... habit of.

 

I'd seriously like to write game story lines for sure but Rockstar on the most part aren't 'terrible' at it and you have only seen the first act of this. The first act of GTA V was very good and very strong. It's everything after that where it mostly goes to hell and mostly because the writers have to attempt to make a character as irrational and 'random' as Trevor relevant in a sensible storyline which is a contradiction that can't be resolved and we get the mess that is the GTA V story. Like I said elsewhere, lowering Trevor's significance and just making him the 'muscle' but still had some of his own stuff and occasional background things would have worked much better rather than having him butthurt over Micheal's 'lack of loyalty' while showing none himself.
 


Grievous
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#43

Posted 09 June 2014 - 02:36 PM

rockstar, please fire the writers who wrote GTA V and hire this man!


It's ridiculous how often I've seen this sort of comment throughout the forum; at this point a quarter of this forum's users are eligible to write the next multi million blockbuster's story, settings and characters.

I'm not saying praising other people's ideas is bad, but let's not delude ourselves: Sam Houser is never going to throw his brother Dan off a bridge!

Option C is the ending to me. Yes, it's not a good ending but it's the 'best' of three bad choices and most complete.


Of course, it's barely comparable even.
We've got two short endings that are severely lacking in pacing and gameplay ... and a third one that has production values and efforts put into it.

It's quite disappointing they didn't make it akin to Deal and Revenge ending in IV; at least these two endings were equals in length, pacing, and gameplay.

A B C is just giving a pretense of choice, not actually inviting the player to make one.

I did argued recently in V's forum that it should have been Trevor who makes the choice, not Franklin. The idea being that it centers on Trevor's character as to make it relevant to the plot just like how apparently the screenwriters wanted to from the beginning.
Oddly enough it wasn't that popular of an idea after all, compared to other threads in the forum.
http://gtaforums.com...ision-spoilers/

Like I said elsewhere, lowering Trevor's significance and just making him the 'muscle' but still had some of his own stuff and occasional background things would have worked much better rather than having him butthurt over Micheal's 'lack of loyalty' while showing none himself.


Or get rid of Franklin, and just focus on Michael and Trevor's relationship/differences, between the man who has done it all but wouldn't mind occasionally having a taste of it again, and the man who never gets tired of repeatedly doing the same damn thing for the rest of his life and always somehow finds new things to do.
Since Rockstar wasn't shy of suggesting that each of the protagonist embodies a specific type of Grand Theft Auto player, I sincerely don't see why they didn't consider Michael and Trevor to be good enough of a subject to invest in, and thought it was a good idea to shove Franklin in.
It's not like the story even makes it clear that Franklin is afraid of becoming Michael or Trevor or both if he continues his life of crime.

So regarding reputation, it's just an off idea but how would high reputation hurt you? Is that more like notoriety?


Could be, yes. The better professionalism you employ, the more attention you draw from the FIB, which they send in undercover agents that you can employ as heist crew members, and eventually betraying you at one point.
Alternatively the better your reputation, the higher the crew's cut will be.

The idea is that being a selfless professional shouldn't be a source of 'best rewards' like so many games are plagued these days with their broken 'karma' system. Because the player will automatically seek for the source of better rewards, not consider the moral ambiguity of it.
In this scenario thought there should be a better balance to it; there should be an incentive for the player to occasionally kill off or abandoning their crew to earn their share of the heist.
Otherwise who would ever consider betraying their crew members?
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Peachrocks
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#44

Posted 09 June 2014 - 06:15 PM

Ehhhhh, I think the whole process was wrong anyway. So many things were wrong up until the choice so the fact the choice played out badly isn't surprising. Having Trevor or Franklin make it is much of a muchness really.

 

Franklin isn't given a fair chance as a character because we don't really get him as a character or his development. Honestly I mostly use Franklin because I identify with the whole 'trying to progress in a broken world' thing. Though I prefer Michael as a character but I don't identify at all with the 'I've got it all and now I'm bored' and Trevor... no. The problem is that Franklin is a bit of an asshole too at times and has practically no ability to empathize which considering his background and even some of his actions in the story makes it really hard to swallow. Most notably his relationship with Lamar at the end when hanging out is really questionable.

 

They have completely different values and beliefs, Lamar basically asks Franklin at the end if he learned anything and Franklin goes on about a rant about how it was Lamar who keeps needing rescuing from his dumb schemes and completely missing the point of Lamar's question though in doing so answering 'No'. I don't see those guys being friends for much longer after the plot and probably only stuck together out of necessity. Franklin's entire character is very hard to decipher and is really unclear and if anything comes of this supposed DLC that tells more story about all three protagonists I hope it's mostly focused on this, though I think they've written themselves into contradiction corner regarding Franklin.

 

Interesting idea on 'good reputation' and I agree with the sentiment that these days in games the best choice is usually the most obvious and there's rarely any benefit from deviating. What I wouldn't give to design... *sigh*


Grievous
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#45

Posted 09 June 2014 - 09:56 PM

I've always looked at Franklin as someone of a profiteer: he acts angry when Lamar fools around with Simeon's delivery because he needed Simeon's paycheck, then when he found Michael, the bigger fish in the pond, he jumps into his boat and hopes that Michael could replace Simeon as his paymaster, which it eventually did, and so on.
Franklin continues to berate Lamar because, unlike Lamar, he had 'secured' a position he considers rightful, that of working with the bigger leagues of criminals and earning better money ... which kind of begs the question as to why doesn't Franklin ever invite Lamar into Michael's heists?

Franklin always aimed for the money, or the expectation of earning money at the end of his efforts, as the Strangers and Freaks missions shown.
The problem is that, in the context of the game, there was no reason to be critical of Franklin's actions: for a gangbanger from the hood he actually done himself pretty well, with no shortage amount of luck involved, sure, but it's hard for me to criticize his mindset even though the game's plot was inviting us to do so.
His confrontation with Tanisha near the end was very contradictory to watch, I personally couldn't understand the purpose to it, as if suddenly I too had to be judgmental on Franklin like what this hysterical woman is doing.

Yet it turns out that this was what the story was all about: the story wanted us to be weary of Franklin's character, of his actions and of his endgame choice. It's just that to me none of this moral condescending makes sense, there's no reason for Franklin to be such a poor slob for us to awake our moral senses and punch him around while feeling guilty about it. Franklin wanted to earn money, and he earned money, as a criminal he earned it by robbing and killing people, but that's nothing new by video game standards, and he never pulls any questionable ethics in the game either.
It's hard to understand the story's idea of saying "do not do this cool thing" when, within the context and logic of this universe, Franklin hadn't done anything particular or different compared to past protagonist.

As a result it also ironically makes him a dull protagonist in my opinion.

Again, as I said to keep it short, they shouldn't have included him into Michael and Trevor's story.
Or better yet, focus on One protagonist, not all three ...
Or make Three Stories in One Game, not one game divided by three different characters.
Or make one game divided by three different characters but all pertaining to the same goal, atmosphere, and overall thematic motif.

At the end of the day I can understand that it's still a hard trick to pull!

Dr. Robotnik
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#46

Posted 05 July 2014 - 06:04 AM

Franklin always aimed for the money, or the expectation of earning money at the end of his efforts, as the Strangers and Freaks missions shown.
The problem is that, in the context of the game, there was no reason to be critical of Franklin's actions: for a gangbanger from the hood he actually done himself pretty well, with no shortage amount of luck involved, sure, but it's hard for me to criticize his mindset even though the game's plot was inviting us to do so.
His confrontation with Tanisha near the end was very contradictory to watch, I personally couldn't understand the purpose to it, as if suddenly I too had to be judgmental on Franklin like what this hysterical woman is doing.

That, and the game seems to ignore the reason for Franklin's lack of empathy for his "homies" in the first place; namely, that there's very little worth empathizing with.

 

Lamar's a horrible friend who antagonizes him constantly, and the only time he ever does anything for Franklin, rather than the other way around, he complains about not getting paid, which is exactly what he claimed Franklin didn't have a right to expect after saving him.

 

Tanisha claims she wants to break things off with Franklin because of his criminal lifestyle, and then she not only acts as if their prior relationship entitles her to call in favors, but tries to guilt-trip him into committing more criminal acts to save Lamar.


JetsRLove
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#47

Posted 18 July 2014 - 08:25 AM

Shouldn't this technically be in the gta v forums section because it focuses on the gta v story mode and not really TLAD. Just pointing that out there.


Ihatetrevor
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#48

Posted 18 November 2014 - 01:16 PM

Shouldn't this technically be in the gta v forums section because it focuses on the gta v story mode and not really TLAD. Just pointing that out there.

Hmmm, maybe, but in here we dont have V fanboys, and if we post this on the gta v section it will be hated and the moderator will take this out, and people goona whine so much because their protagonists is not going to get another pointless history with lots of boom, trevor doing impossible things to inflate trevor fanboys hype, and jetpacks and spaceships, aliens, more crazy ass thing that will wonder you, why im not playing saints row, then i think its better this being in the EFLC section than in the V one

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think i got apesh*t in this one


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#49

Posted 18 November 2014 - 01:36 PM

I must say, i would love the idea for Jim, Johnny, Terry & Clay to convoy one time and one time only, to give a huge throwback. The convoy ride should be slow, preferably with the radio off, very calm and taking a long ride from BC to LS (or vice versa). I don't know how it would be caused and what would happened during and after the convoy, but the thought of one last convoy ride with the remnants of the Lost before Johnny dies would be really bittersweet.


Money Over Bullshit
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#50

Posted 21 November 2014 - 04:58 PM Edited by Money Over Bullshit, 21 November 2014 - 05:08 PM.

Another thing to add to the Jim Fitz conspiracy is that in NWOTS Phil Bell is already at the restaurant when Niko gets there.. he and Ray are sitting there calmly. Would this be the case if one of their boys just had their throat slit in the basment? Also pay attention to Phil's dialogue.. he says the bikers are "causing trouble on the corner of Vauxite and Exeter" this is the same place Johnny meets Jim to give him the money after the deal at the Libertonian. If you watch that cutscene we never actually see Jim and the other biker leaving. Jim turns to leave but we never actually see him leaving. Its likely that he does leave with the money but what about the other guy? Maybe he stays there and starts causing some trouble with his buddy waiting for Jim to get back and in the meantime Phil leaves and Ray's goon comes in with Jim which is when Was It Worth It? starts. Niko gives quite a lenghty chase to "Jim" and his buddy so there's enough time for Johnny to get to Druscillas and the cutscene for WIWI to occur while he's chasing them. Niko calls and tells Ray the Bikers are dead so he just assumes that he got Jim too and tells him not to worry about Johnny since his boys are going after him. Ray calls Ashley and tells her Jim is dead and she tells Johnny then the fake news reports identify the bald biker as "Jim Fitzgerald" confirming what they all believe to be true. None of the newspapers carry a picture.. even in TLAD so its entirely possible. I'm thinking he went into witness protection though so that would cast some doubt on this DLC idea. That's just my personal opinion though. If you want to get more attention for this topic then try posting it in the GTA Concepts section.

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Peachrocks
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#51

Posted 25 November 2014 - 09:12 PM

I think I created this before that existed. At the time I was content with the 'lack' of attention and people mostly from the Screw You Rockstar thread. I might redo it at some stage but it seems a lot of people know about this theory/fan story already.


Money Over Bullshit
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#52

Posted 30 November 2014 - 06:51 PM

I think I created this before that existed. At the time I was content with the 'lack' of attention and people mostly from the Screw You Rockstar thread. I might redo it at some stage but it seems a lot of people know about this theory/fan story already.

There has always been concepts in the GTA Gen Chat section the Concepts subforum is fairly recent though. Maybe you should ask for it to be moved because although that section isn't overly busy the topic will surely get more attention than its getting in here.


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#53

Posted 01 December 2014 - 04:46 AM

If I do I'll remake the thread

XIII-V-XIX
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#54

Posted 28 January 2015 - 10:35 AM

Damn, Rockstar needs to hire you guys! they clearly need a help in their writing department...

 

I wasn't so much annoyed at Johnny's death in V as I was annoyed at how his transformation to "zombie pussy methhead" (nice description, Cowboy :p) wasn't explained AT ALL. So I'm all for th DLC being set quite a ways back so we can see what kind of man Klebitz really is. Not so sure I can buy the North Yankton setting for Jim. As much as I want to explore the place it seems just a bit too convenient that Jim would choose to settle there when he had all that money at his disposal. The story between him and Jackie makes sense though. With Michael in the mix you  could draw parralels between them, though personally I like to think that Jim would treat his family better.

And yes, please please please MORE BIKES. No crotch rockets either, though I would like to see something like the 80's-90's Japanese mock-American choppers and cruisers. Beaters too, along with more ratty, beat up cars.


Peachrocks
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#55

Posted 20 February 2015 - 06:38 PM

Damn, Rockstar needs to hire you guys! they clearly need a help in their writing department...

 

I wasn't so much annoyed at Johnny's death in V as I was annoyed at how his transformation to "zombie pussy methhead" (nice description, Cowboy :p) wasn't explained AT ALL. So I'm all for th DLC being set quite a ways back so we can see what kind of man Klebitz really is. Not so sure I can buy the North Yankton setting for Jim. As much as I want to explore the place it seems just a bit too convenient that Jim would choose to settle there when he had all that money at his disposal. The story between him and Jackie makes sense though. With Michael in the mix you  could draw parralels between them, though personally I like to think that Jim would treat his family better.

And yes, please please please MORE BIKES. No crotch rockets either, though I would like to see something like the 80's-90's Japanese mock-American choppers and cruisers. Beaters too, along with more ratty, beat up cars.

 

There's many things that are convenient in plots. Trevor, Lester and Michael just happen to live in the same state? Please... At least I bother to explain it in JIm's case, a small isolated town where Stubbs could easily keep track of his 'man'?. 2 million isn't a lot considering Jim isn't exactly the most employable guy and yes the key point of the story is the massive contrast in the way Michael treats his family versus Jim. The whole 'so similar yet different' vibe. Enough to make the other see their own flaws clearly without clashing in terms of personality. 


PhillBellic
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#56

Posted 04 March 2015 - 02:18 AM

I have had a quick read through this thread, and I can only wish that GTA V had a tenth of the story Ideas this thread has. I will definitely give this topic a deeper read through though.

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Spin-me
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#57

Posted 14 March 2015 - 12:43 AM

ok




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