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A DLC Idea for GTA V based on Jim and Angus

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Peachrocks
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    Mark Chump

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#1

Posted 22 November 2013 - 06:19 PM

By popular demand (cough) I’ve finally unveiled details involving a theoretical DLC for GTA V that will (almost) certainly never happen. It is suggested as an alternative to DLC that would bring slightly better resolution to the fiasco of how The Lost and Damned fans were treated by reintroducing the only two brothers not involved.

 

I first put this particular post to Grievous to get their thoughts and walls of text on the matter which were very helpful.

 

It mostly involves the theory of Jim faking his death. So a bit of background on the theory for those who haven’t heard it.

 

 

In TLAD and GTA IV there’s a few odd things regarding Jim’s death. Firstly the retcon. That the man Niko kills looks nothing like Jim. Most likely it is indeed a simple retcon however this man appears alongside Jim in TLAD. Why?

 

That’s one factor. The other is the fact that the two million dollars in diamond money that Johnny stole from Libertorian is completely unaccounted for and was last seen in Jim’s possession. What happened to it? These two oversights trigger the conspiracy theorist in me. However considering how The Lost have been treated as of late, I honestly believe these are just two huge oversights but such things bug me when there is a possible explanation.   

 

The final piece of the theory cake is that Johnny himself puts it to Jim that if Billy had to make him do something that could possibly mean he wouldn’t be able to be there for his wife and kid anymore what would he do. Jim answers that he’d have to think long and hard about it but says he thinks long and hard about what he orders at Burger Shot as well sort of brushing off the question. Could he have made a choice here?

 

Obviously this DLC assumes Jim did indeed fake his death for reasons of avoiding Ray’s wrath as well as giving him an out from The Lost without his brothers seeing it as a betrayal as well as convincing his wife Jackie that this side of his life was done for good.

 

Firstly how was it done? Numerous theories, my own off the top of my head at first involved bribing a corrupt detective with some of the two million dollars to report his death and have Jackie identify the body that looks nothing like Jim as Jim thus covering how someone with a completely different appearance can be identified as dead, especially with how notoriously lax the LCPD are.

 

However Drunken Cowboy in the monster thread regarding a certain character’s death suggested that Johnny wasn’t the only one running around for Stubbs and that Jim was also doing ‘jobs’ for him and so had Stubbs assist in faking his death.

 

Keeping in mind Stubbs had to be absolutely sure Billy was dead because if he talked Stubbs was certain to come up and his reputation was down the toilet so had Jim in reserve.

 

Personally I like this theory more because Stubbs can become involved in the plot again. In any case let’s go over key characters and settings.

 

Settings

North Yankton

Much has been said about using Ludendorf, North Yankton for some sort of DLC. Personally the snow and ice theme would certainly be welcome and a drastic change from the sunshine of Los Santos. Snowboarding, skiing, ice hockey amongst other things would all be possible diversions. Any ideas here are more than welcome.

 

Los Santos

Los Santos would return largely unchanged but would feature extensively in the plot as the characters would travel between the two locations for ‘business’ reasons.

 

Playable Characters

 

Jim Fitzgerald

Jim has been living in Ludendorf in North Yankton for the past five years. Since two million isn’t exactly enough to assure a comfortable life for his wife and son he still has to work and does tedious truck delivery work (or something else that you people can have fun with) that drives him insane with boredom.

 

Jim also plays Ice Hockey every so often but aside from that Jim is not at all content.

 

His wife is on his case about their growing son who never seems to get out of trouble and much like his father sticks up for those he cares for. In addition a crime spree is hitting the relatively unprepared small town in ways that concern Jackie that Jim may be tempted to return to his former lifestyle. I may be mistaken since I don’t believe it is specified but I get the feeling that Jim’s kid is male.

 

Grievous also suggested making a reference to his jacket and motorcycle to give that whole ‘armor in the closet’ feel.

 

As of yet unnamed character

I have a few ideas for a name and background but I want to let you people have fun with this. This character is a disgruntled IAA agent to be but they were rejected for reasons they saw as trivial. However being a friend of Thomas Stubbs may allow them to extract some revenge in his attempt to destabilise both the FIB and the IAA and expose their war in funding.

 

Stubbs is obviously only in it for his own reasons and cares little for justice. What more could a corrupt politician want then more control over intelligence?

 

Grievous described the concept of this character as a ‘sane and consistent’ version of Trevor. Psychologically wounded and disillusioned.

 

Another alternative with the same theme is being a former friend to the possibly deceased Michael Klebitz, Johnny’s more law abiding brother which I may have considered more if Rockstar didn’t overuse the name Michael. Jason Michaels, Saint Michael and...

 

Michael De Santa

Jim Fitzgerald catches Michael De Santa on camera fighting Merryweather, the IAA and the FIB as they are shooting each other causing Stubbs to dig deeper into him and being pleasantly surprised by what he finds. So just when Michael thought he was free ‘to be miserable in peace’ he is called back into service by Stubbs who demands his help in exposing the corrupt acts of both organisations. His similarity yet drastic differences from Jim are pretty remarkable.

 

Side notes about characters

Jim’s revival story is very similar to Michael’s. Believe it or not I came up with it before we had serious details on Michael’s story but there are two key differences.

 

1. Jim is poor, doing menial work and bored, Michael is rich and bored.

 

2. Jim’s personality is significantly different and is has a far less dominating personality than Michael. This alters the dynamic of his relationship with his wife Jackie and his son. He is generally more willing to concede to Jackie and gets along rather well with his son.

 

Opening of the Story

Jim’s life begins to unravel when Angus Martin arrives at Jim’s doorstep. Angus claims he always knew Jim was alive but understood his reasons for leaving and decided to leave him in peace. Angus had been staying in North Yankton for the past few weeks unable to see Johnny and the other brothers destroy themselves in this way and wanted to see if he could convince Jim to appeal to Johnny knowing how much Johnny needed the help of someone who would understand and not someone who Johnny would feel he had to appear strong for.

 

Although Jim is pleased to see Angus after the initial shock, Jim concludes that he cannot risk being dragged back into that life again. However Jackie who had other concerns lately regarding her husband gets into a huge fight with him with Angus’ arrival being the last straw and says she is leaving for a few days.

 

In response Jim contacts Angus who is still staying in the town for a while and agrees to his request and the pair travel to Los Santos. Unsure of what to say or whether Johnny would be furious at Jim’s betrayal he isn’t quite sure what he’s getting himself into.

 

---

 

Originally at this point I set it a while after Johnny’s death however Grievous convinced me that it should be set just before. So this way Jim and Johnny would get into a rather large verbal confrontation. Jim would not be surprised at Johnny’s reaction but he would be surprised at how damaged he was over the years, hearing it from Angus was one thing but seeing it was something else. Grievous gave me a possible conversation which I’ll let him post if he chooses.

 

The conversation leads to talks of loyalty and then about Ashley which triggers Johnny to ask about her whereabouts only to find she isn’t around thus setting the scene for Johnny’s met with Trevor. The irony being that both of them had just seen a ghost.

 

---

 

At some point after Johnny’s death with other story events that I haven’t determined yet to happen which probably includes a more permanent separation between Jim and Jackie, Jim is contacted by one Thomas Stubbs who had been keeping tabs on Jim over the years and knew he had flown out to Los Santos to visit Johnny. Stubbs was in Los Santos and had wished to hire Johnny’s services again but based on his circumstances that was no longer possible so he wanted to hire Jim instead.

 

Jim says he wishes to have nothing to do with Stubbs but then Stubbs tells him about what he knows of Jim’s life and how transparent his unhappiness is, that he wasn’t meant to live a ‘normal’ life as he had been trying to and claims that this time his work is for a good cause and to just hear him out and that if he wasn’t convinced he could go back and do whatever tedious job he was doing.

 

Reluctantly agreeing to a meeting they meet in a typically over the top luxurious setting of some sort and Stubbs introduces Jim to our third character. The pair are given the assignment to watch over a meeting that according to intelligence Stubbs has received should see the IAA attempt to make arrests of the FIB. Stubbs predicts fireworks and he wants video evidence.

 

Game play themes and features

More profit and choice based heists.

While the tone of the DLC may seem more political at first Stubbs isn’t the only thing driving the story. Angus has several ideas on what could be done to make some money for the sole purpose of making money with the varying contacts he has acquired over the years and jobs that could be done in North Yankton or Los Santos on behalf of those all over the globe.

 

More Cameos in Heist Members that can hired

Personally I’d like to see the return of several GTA characters in the form of possible crew members and maybe even possible conversations between one another if they are familiar with each other with synergy and trust factors making a mission easier.

 

Very open to suggestions here though I’ve got plenty of ideas including Luis, Henrique, Phil Bell, De Sean, Malc, Lamar, Hao and many others so if you don’t like some characters you can just ignore them and hire ones you do like. Let’s just say my imagination got me carried away here even with characters totally unsuitable for the sake of cutting costs...

 

Options throughout the plot

I’m very big on choices in all sorts of games. A big part of Jim’s story and theme is the fact that he ultimately cannot please everyone and so he must how he ranks his own priorities and that has consequences throughout.

 

Obviously at this point the idea is very much in its development stages but I find it fun to think about and there’s a good chance I will write a possible storyline out for it at some stage if people want it.

 

Grievous I've probably forgot loads of other stuff you mentioned but you can mention it now if you like. Would like to get the opinions from many on possible direction and other ideas.

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Drunken Cowboy
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#2

Posted 22 November 2013 - 07:47 PM

As usual, good job on a thoroughly written and well-thought out post. Oh, and NAME-CRED, BITCHES!

 

Anyways, these are all great ideas, and we can really wonder with them because they will never come to be. Consequently, I'm just gonna let myself run wild here with what would make a cool story, as opposed to what the gamer conglomerate would "go for". I agree that North Yankton would be cool as a utilized setting: some poor family on hadn't had the opportunity to be WITSEC'd to Vinewood Hills; rather, blew through most of the two million moving around and bribing law enforcement. When we pushed for the Jim DLC though, I was hoping to return to a biker theme. It just doesn't seem feasible that someone would be riding their Zombie B through whipping snow and twenty degrees all while negotiating icy roads, much less-so than how I'd love to ride around the Blaine desert featured in like 8 missions in GTA V. However, it could be just the introduction area, and Jim takes his "armor and steed out of the closet" when Angus shows up. But if it were an introduction, then North Yankton's roll is diminished once again. (Join the hunt for North Yankton!) It would also be nice to see a more serious troubled-family dynamic as was "promised" with Michael but developed into some stupid one-liners from Jimmy and murdering porn people who your daughter hangs out with. Shame Jim only had a baby at the time of TLaD, it would be interesting to see a John Martson/Jack dynamic of him trying to win back his son.

 

I'd like to know why and how Angus tracked Jason down, and why Angus didn't go with Johnny to Blaine. I don't know, some more motivation is needed for him to make his way all the way out to Bumblef*ck USA to pick up and forgive someone who essentially bailed on the club. Whatever the case may be, Jim can f*ck off to Blaine, whether or not he would bring, tell, or just run from his family would be an interesting issue to handle.

 

Contrary to what both you and Grievous say, I believe that it should be a good deal of time before Johnny's killed. One, we can show GTA V era players what a bad motherf*cker the REAL Johnny is. Two, we can get some god damn motherf*cking explanation as to what turned John-Boy into a zombie pussy methhead. Third, you couldn't really work Jim into the dynamic unfortunately laid out with V's less than sub-par story.

So Johnny's killed. How come we never see Jim attack Trevor in the events of V? Home come the only Lost assault on Trevor was breaking his statue of Impotent Rage? (This game left A LOT less open to side-story than IV.)

 

Anyway, Jim should be arriving a year or a few months prior to GTA V. That would be an interesting conflict, to see badass Johnny trying to forgive deserter Jim, the one who sent him spiraling into his "depressed" state. Jim wants to make peace with Johnny. He wants to win his loyalty back anyway he can, before returning to Ludendorf or maybe settling down in Los Santos. Clay and Terry are more forgiving, but could still be condescending and doubtful. They have Jim help them out on some jobs; clearing out the AoD (maybe?), burning down an Azteca meth lab, or smashing Ron's leg in to intimidate TP Enterprises from selling meth in their territory (hence that knee brace I keep going on about :p)

 

Jim gets a taste for the chaos and the much-needed money again, re-donning his colors. A few conflagrations later, a few maybe make-up sessions and fallouts, blah blah blah, Johnny gets isolated within his Blaine County charter, seeking comfort in Ashley and meth.

 

It'd be cool to see Stubbs return after having "kept tabs" on Jim. I wouldn't capitalize his roll too much, as he was always there more for comic-relief and perspective on modern politics. We can see some more urban jobs, have a few FIB style heists/jobs as done in the campaign, but I've had enough of that Spliter Cell sh*t. Jim's a biker, the Lost is a motorcycle GANG. And Blaine County was horribly unused. As the Lost and Damned was a relatively "small" setting, a gang imploding that had little to no effect on the outside world but made a fantastically dynamic story from our perspective, that's what this could be. Explaining the Jim retcon and Johnny's sh*tty death through various acts of gang warfare. Explain the miraculous disappearances of the Aztecas and AoD. Give us some guns that aren't military-grade high-power machine guns. Backwoods activities like hunting and off-roading can be fleshed out more. Give us some coach guns, revolvers, and hunting rifles. And most importantly, POUR THE BIKES ON US! I was sick of being forced to choose from sport car, SUV, minivan, or jap scrap in LS, give us some more rusted sedans, pickups, utility vehicles, and yes, choppers and cruisers. Return the TLaD bike lineup, and make the handling and mechanics of the bikes not-so sh*t! (I mean how hard was it to port the Hexer sounds from TLaD?)

 

100% approve, but it's never gonna happen. Oh woe is us.

I've been drafting a thread about this more rational DLC proposition involving a Lost Prospect yesterday, I'll be sure to link that when it's finished.

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Grievous
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#3

Posted 22 November 2013 - 07:51 PM

Aaaah, I see now why there were some initial reluctance in telling this tale.

Specifically, it isn't as much about 'bikers' as it is about 'one biker'.

 

But that's not a bad thing, maybe a bit more difficult to pull off since you have to focus the emotions through this one character's psyche, whereas the more broaden biker themes such as Lost and Damned did was tossing around the different stages of atmosphere here and there and making an ensemble piece. If that made any sense.

 

A couple of new ideas.

 

First regarding Jim's life in North Yankton.

If possible, add a supporting character who stays, lives and works exclusively in North Yankton throughout the storyline.

The purpose of this supporting character would be to add a more physical presence to the 'lifestyle' Jim doesn't find enjoyment in; that of the quiet, harmless, hardworking, everyday life.

A figure of contrast, a potential source of passive meditation for Jim. A bit like how in GTA IV and Lost and Damned you could call in Roman or Angus and have their point of view on a couple of situations, except for this fellow you get to converse with face to face.

 

Pretend it's Floyd, but never gets in contact with criminals or get molested in his sleep.

 

Jim could throughout the game return to North Yankton and converse with this fellow, who perhaps remains oblivious of Jim's return to his past criminal activities, or just pretend to be oblivious about the matter.

 

If it so happens that Jim dies by the end of the story, one of the other two protagonists could return to North Yankton and converse with this fellow, who then delivers a statement that closes off this subplot.

Whatever that statement is, I have no clue.

 

Second idea, which may contradict my initial proposal of how Jim is the last person to have talked to Johnny, and source of Johnny going to fetch for Ashley in the first place ... is that, well, to make Jim the source of Johnny's drug addiction.

 

What if Johnny knew about Jim's survival? of his runaway? and the idea that his closest brother would do such a thing to him, without a word, a sign, and after all the Lost had been through ...

It could have been such a devastating reality to him, that in comparison, anything Ashley says or does is instantly much more favorable in his approval rating, because at least She didn't turned her back on Johnny.

 

Enters the meth. Because Jim deserted his brothers in the first place.

 

Although this can be yet another callback to Michael and Trevor's relationship, with Trevor having abandonment issues, and here we'll see it turned out to be the same with Jim and Johnny.

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Grievous
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#4

Posted 22 November 2013 - 09:24 PM

 

I'd like to know why and how Angus tracked Jason down, and why Angus didn't go with Johnny to Blaine. I don't know, some more motivation is needed for him to make his way all the way out to Bumblef*ck USA to pick up and forgive someone who essentially bailed on the club. Whatever the case may be, Jim can f*ck off to Blaine, whether or not he would bring, tell, or just run from his family would be an interesting issue to handle.

 

 

 

Simple, some time after the events of Lost and Damned, when Johnny proposes the cross-nation plan, he said that Ashley was coming along afterall.

 

Angus took it as a sign that Johnny finally lost it. And didn't join the trip, because of Ashley.

The meth only came in afterwards.

 

 

 

 

Contrary to what both you and Grievous say, I believe that it should be a good deal of time before Johnny's killed. One, we can show GTA V era players what a bad motherf*cker the REAL Johnny is. Two, we can get some god damn motherf*cking explanation as to what turned John-Boy into a zombie pussy methhead. Third, you couldn't really work Jim into the dynamic unfortunately laid out with V's less than sub-par story.

So Johnny's killed. How come we never see Jim attack Trevor in the events of V? Home come the only Lost assault on Trevor was breaking his statue of Impotent Rage? (This game left A LOT less open to side-story than IV.)

 

Anyway, Jim should be arriving a year or a few months prior to GTA V. That would be an interesting conflict, to see badass Johnny trying to forgive deserter Jim, the one who sent him spiraling into his "depressed" state. Jim wants to make peace with Johnny. He wants to win his loyalty back anyway he can, before returning to Ludendorf or maybe settling down in Los Santos. Clay and Terry are more forgiving, but could still be condescending and doubtful. They have Jim help them out on some jobs; clearing out the AoD (maybe?), burning down an Azteca meth lab, or smashing Ron's leg in to intimidate TP Enterprises from selling meth in their territory (hence that knee brace I keep going on about :p)

 

 

 

 

In Peachrock's story, by the time Jim made his second trip to Blaine County, it was already well after Johnny and the Lost at Stab City were nuked by Trevor.

Therefor, with the dead men tell no tales, Jim never knew what happened, other than the common conclusion that it was over some drug business.

 

Outside of Trevor, Ron, Wade, Oscar, and eventually Michael and Franklin, No One, cartel or otherwise, has ever heard of 'Trevor Philips Industries'.

So rumor only goes about that some 'hobo with a shotgun' did it.

 

Only the other hand this prospect of making Johnny the leading npc character for a few missions, is kind of intriguing I must say.

Notably it can bring back that convoy-riding mechanic, the one where you have to ride on the designated symbol to replenish health and trigger new conversations, the one that was so heavily talked about in previews, but only used on five near-similar occasions in Lost and Damned.

I would like to see it back. Even if, again in this case scenario, it'll still be 'under used'.

 

 

I also kind of like this idea that as Jim slowly 'regaining' his pleasure in partaking the biker underworld activities, suddenly Johnny and the Lost are then wiped out, which robs of Jim the opportunity he thought he was regaining by reliving his past lifestyle.

 

It's this sense of loss that I find interesting. You give the players a set of tools and mission structure, and then you take it all away, and therefor, just like the protagonist, you are compelled to seek new activities elsewhere. In this case, into the city, working for Stubbs, and getting involved into government agency business.

 

 

I've been drafting a thread about this more rational DLC proposition involving a Lost Prospect yesterday, I'll be sure to link that when it's finished.

 

Oh lord you too? we're going to flood the Lost and Damned forum with DLC ideas for GTA V!

 

I'll call in the take-off for my armada too. Needs refueling.

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Elscoumouno95
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#5

Posted 22 November 2013 - 10:00 PM

"as it is about "one biker""

 

A lone wolf :lol:

 

But for me the thing that would be nice it's see Ahsley wasn't with the lost since the Alderney chapter was destroyed, when she knows that and she call Johnny and eared he didn't want to see her again, she left the east coast to go to the AOD chapter of los santos and in a raid lead by Jim to rise the faith of his brothers in him, they will found her and wonder what she is doing here with this racists pricks and take her to the Lost HQ. At the same time Johnny learns his brother is dead and he argues with Jim because he wants to give Ashley a second luck and Jim don't.

Johnny lost his last friend and there is only Ashley to comfort him because Terry and Cay are busy with all this problems with the deadbeats.

A friendship story between Angus and Jim would be a good idea to introduce a SIDE-CAR like that we can see Angus in game and not only in the cut-scenes.


Peachrocks
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    Mark Chump

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#6

Posted 22 November 2013 - 11:09 PM

I was hoping to return to a biker theme.

 

This was one of my concerns. Not that it honestly matters but there's two reasons why I decided against it, at least going at full biker style similar to TLAD.

 

1. It's been done already

2. It wouldn't give the open ended gameplay style that I'd want from Jim.

 

But if it were an introduction, then North Yankton's roll is diminished once again.

 

Another reason why. However the switch between areas makes it more feasible. There's a few skeleton elements of theoretical North Yankton that I haven't mentioned such as a sharp increase in crime probably after Trevor discovers the truth about Brad.

 


It would also be nice to see a more serious troubled-family dynamic as was "promised" with Michael but developed into some stupid one-liners from Jimmy and murdering porn people who your daughter hangs out with. Shame Jim only had a baby at the time of TLaD, it would be interesting to see a John Martson/Jack dynamic of him trying to win back his son.

Yeah and just because he's a kid, I'm thinking 9 years old at most doesn't mean that Jim can't have some deep moments with his kid. I see him being closer to Jim in any case, especially because Jackie is always freaking out and I see her being overprotective while Jim is the 'cool Dad'.

 

I'd like to know why and how Angus tracked Jim down, and why Angus didn't go with Johnny to Blaine.

 

In my mind he did go at first. However upon seeing Johnny and the other brothers destroy themselves it's something he can't bear to watch anymore. Angus says as much to Johnny when he's talking about Ashley that he's seen a lot of the brothers get taken down by meth and that he has to truly love her to get her off it. However I think his own words may be turned against him and I don't think he cares for Ashley very much to say the least.

 

As for how he tracked Jim down, Angus added the facts together. I get the sense Angus is rather intelligent or at the very least more so than most of the brothers and he has a lot of time on his hands. Simply put he knew who actually did die that day and knew it wasn't Jim but as soon as he figured out Jim's deception he also knew why he'd done it and immediately understood it.

 

I don't know, some more motivation is needed for him to make his way all the way out to Bumblef*ck USA to pick up and forgive someone who essentially bailed on the club. Whatever the case may be, Jim can f*ck off to Blaine, whether or not he would bring, tell, or just run from his family would be an interesting issue to handle.

 

Like I said once Angus figured out the deception he also knew the reason and he had more time to reflect upon it. Johnny himself offers Jim an out and I imagine Angus would have too. Jim bailed a sinking ship to protect his family.

Contrary to what both you and Grievous say, I believe that it should be a good deal of time before Johnny's killed. One, we can show GTA V era players what a bad motherf*cker the REAL Johnny is. Two, we can get some god damn motherf*cking explanation as to what turned John-Boy into a zombie pussy methhead. Third, you couldn't really work Jim into the dynamic unfortunately laid out with V's less than sub-par story.

So Johnny's killed. How come we never see Jim attack Trevor in the events of V? Home come the only Lost assault on Trevor was breaking his statue of Impotent Rage? (This game left A LOT less open to side-story than IV.)

 

I dunno... personally I want to leave Johnny be. I feel attempting to explain why he became a 'pussy' or giving Trevor a motive (even though he kills others without one) risks doing even more damage to Johnny or making the story seem even more unbelievable. I've said numerous times how it's possible that Johnny could be the way he is, I don't like it and I think it's horrible writing but I think attempting to change or explain it would only make things worse.

 

As for why Jim never attacks Trevor, he never learns he's responsible. Frankly Trevor is a horrible character design and I don't want him involved at all in any capacity, yes even to slaughter him. I don't know, I guess I'm too much of a diplomat, even to the blind Trevor fans who would probably go TL;DR to this entire post to go through with that. Most of all though, I want to let go of it and simply not recognize Trevor's existence.

 

Anyway, Jim should be arriving a year or a few months prior to GTA V. That would be an interesting conflict, to see badass Johnny trying to forgive deserter Jim, the one who sent him spiraling into his "depressed" state. Jim wants to make peace with Johnny. He wants to win his loyalty back anyway he can, before returning to Ludendorf or maybe settling down in Los Santos. Clay and Terry are more forgiving, but could still be condescending and doubtful. They have Jim help them out on some jobs; clearing out the AoD (maybe?), burning down an Azteca meth lab, or smashing Ron's leg in to intimidate TP Enterprises from selling meth in their territory (hence that knee brace I keep going on about :p)

 

Intriguing but maybe better suited to the new character who is a friend of disillusioned Mikey Klebitz who in his final moments realise his little brother had it right all along. Thus giving him better links to The Lost. I have think much was fitting about having Johnny run into a ghost just before that non character does the same.

 

It'd be cool to see Stubbs return after having "kept tabs" on Jim. I wouldn't capitalize his roll too much, as he was always there more for comic-relief and perspective on modern politics. We can see some more urban jobs, have a few FIB style heists/jobs as done in the campaign, but I've had enough of that Spliter Cell sh*t.

 

I think it was poorly done in V. It took itself way too seriously and many of the heists were wrecked because of their involvement mostly because they took away the choices and variations. Stubbs was not meant to be taken seriously all the while being an excellent plot device and he would be far more giving and allow more freedom to the player then what was allowed in GTA V. Besides most of the heists and/or missions in my mind are from contacts of Angus which gives you a lot of leeway.

 

 

Jim's a biker, the Lost is a motorcycle GANG. And Blaine County was horribly unused. As the Lost and Damned was a relatively "small" setting, a gang imploding that had little to no effect on the outside world but made a fantastically dynamic story from our perspective, that's what this could be. Explaining the Jim retcon and Johnny's sh*tty death through various acts of gang warfare. Explain the miraculous disappearances of the Aztecas and AoD.

 

I wouldn't mind this but the thing here is that Jim is not as much of a biker as Johnny was and that's a key theme here. Jim has to decide what life he wants, or how much of varying lives he can have but he cannot have everything. Still that doesn't mean all of that cannot be done.

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Peachrocks
  • Peachrocks

    Mark Chump

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#7

Posted 22 November 2013 - 11:20 PM Edited by Peachrocks, 22 November 2013 - 11:30 PM.

I also kind of like this idea that as Jim slowly 'regaining' his pleasure in partaking the biker underworld activities, suddenly Johnny and the Lost are then wiped out, which robs of Jim the opportunity he thought he was regaining by reliving his past lifestyle.

 

It's this sense of loss that I find interesting. You give the players a set of tools and mission structure, and then you take it all away, and therefor, just like the protagonist, you are compelled to seek new activities elsewhere. In this case, into the city, working for Stubbs, and getting involved into government agency business.

 

Hmm I dunno... maybe? I mean sure it sounds good but I liked the conclusion we came to regarding Johnny running into a ghost which gives another reason for his state of mind in that catastrophic scene and lord knows most people believe it needs all the reasons it can get and yet I still don't want to do anything too direct to it.

 

Seems we both had our own different ideas of how the whole Angus thing went down, no I don't think Angus gave up just because of Ashley. I think he would believe that maybe Johnny was trying to really believe in her, do right by her and believe in her, he may not have agreed with it but he could understand it. However Johnny going down the meth path would be the final nail in the coffin for Angus.

 

Again Angus could understand it with the pain he'd been through but he couldn't watch yet another brother be consumed by it.

 

---

 

Oh I forgot about your first post...

 

Jim's North Yankton life is very bare bones right now. I had such a character in mind, a colleague someone who never knew anything about Jim's life style. In fact in an earlier iteration they themselves were on the run from the mafia in another country and these two men who are both in hiding just come across one another.

 

Mind you I should note I was never super fond of Floyd, I don't dislike him but the main reason I was annoyed at Trevor killing him was the principal of the matter.

 

I don't think Jim should be the reason for Johnny getting on meth. He's got a load of reasons already. I can't help but think if Johnny was given time to reflect on it he would see the real reasons behind it, reasons he himself put to Jim and therefore he would forgive him and not go down that path. The only way it works in my mind if the two are to meet just before he dies.

 

In my mind having Johnny know about Jim being alive and not forgiving him for it especially when he himself put it to Jim on at least two occasions about whether he should put his family before The Lost would only reinforce the aspects of Johnny's character that were so strongly disliked in GTA V. It comes back to being possible but unlikely and not enjoyable to experience.

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#8

Posted 23 November 2013 - 06:22 AM

Angels of Death DLC makes more sense.

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#9

Posted 23 November 2013 - 07:17 AM

 

 

But if it were an introduction, then North Yankton's roll is diminished once again.

 

Another reason why. However the switch between areas makes it more feasible. There's a few skeleton elements of theoretical North Yankton that I haven't mentioned such as a sharp increase in crime probably after Trevor discovers the truth about Brad.

 

What's the obsession with North Yankton anyway?

 

It reminds me how San Andreas had this small patch of Liberty City at one scripted point, and everybody went nuts about the matter, and tracked down the 'ghost town' in no time.

 

 

 

 

I'd like to know why and how Angus tracked Jim down, and why Angus didn't go with Johnny to Blaine.

 

In my mind he did go at first. However upon seeing Johnny and the other brothers destroy themselves it's something he can't bear to watch anymore. Angus says as much to Johnny when he's talking about Ashley that he's seen a lot of the brothers get taken down by meth and that he has to truly love her to get her off it. However I think his own words may be turned against him and I don't think he cares for Ashley very much to say the least.

 

As for how he tracked Jim down, Angus added the facts together. I get the sense Angus is rather intelligent or at the very least more so than most of the brothers and he has a lot of time on his hands. Simply put he knew who actually did die that day and knew it wasn't Jim but as soon as he figured out Jim's deception he also knew why he'd done it and immediately understood it.

 

 

 

I'm pretty sure there is a plot twist involved where Angus is shown to be an IAA agent from the Very beginning.

 

Further 'shookin' up all Jim has to feel about the Lost and the brotherhood.

 

And you can get the third protagonist heavily involved from this angle, perhaps even causing a schism with Jim as the agent begs Jim to listen to the truth, but Jim won't dare to listen/acknowledge.

 

 

 

 

As for why Jim never attacks Trevor, he never learns he's responsible. Frankly Trevor is a horrible character design and I don't want him involved at all in any capacity, yes even to slaughter him. I don't know, I guess I'm too much of a diplomat, even to the blind Trevor fans who would probably go TL;DR to this entire post to go through with that. Most of all though, I want to let go of it and simply not recognize Trevor's existence.

 

 Ha, you're going to like what I did for my dlc ideas since it does this precisely; it simply takes place at some undisclosed time after GTA V, and none would be the wiser to recall 'who' this Trevor is.

 

But mostly because Trevor has no business with the actual storyline I put up, if Trevor showed up, it'll be even more redundant as it'll just be this 'because we have to put Trevor in' philosophy.

And then we'll have some really bad writing.

 

Except for that dragging across the desert, Achilles style thing.

That was an entertaining exception.

 

 

 

 

It'd be cool to see Stubbs return after having "kept tabs" on Jim. I wouldn't capitalize his roll too much, as he was always there more for comic-relief and perspective on modern politics. We can see some more urban jobs, have a few FIB style heists/jobs as done in the campaign, but I've had enough of that Spliter Cell sh*t.

 

I think it was poorly done in V. It took itself way too seriously and many of the heists were wrecked because of their involvement mostly because they took away the choices and variations. Stubbs was not meant to be taken seriously all the while being an excellent plot device and he would be far more giving and allow more freedom to the player then what was allowed in GTA V. Besides most of the heists and/or missions in my mind are from contacts of Angus which gives you a lot of leeway.

 

What I was surprised about the government Heists in GTA V is how at times 'arbitrary' it was in saying which is or which isn't a heist.

 

The rappelling sequence where our trio protagonists meet for the first time wasn't considered as a heist, even though it might as well be considering the similarities it bore for the Merryweather Offshore heist.

 

Similarly you have some other extravaganza stuff that occurs but are only considered, by both gameplay and plot characters, to be 'trivial' compared to the real scores they keep talking or reminiscing about.

 

 

 

I also kind of like this idea that as Jim slowly 'regaining' his pleasure in partaking the biker underworld activities, suddenly Johnny and the Lost are then wiped out, which robs of Jim the opportunity he thought he was regaining by reliving his past lifestyle.

 

It's this sense of loss that I find interesting. You give the players a set of tools and mission structure, and then you take it all away, and therefor, just like the protagonist, you are compelled to seek new activities elsewhere. In this case, into the city, working for Stubbs, and getting involved into government agency business.

 

Hmm I dunno... maybe? I mean sure it sounds good but I liked the conclusion we came to regarding Johnny running into a ghost which gives another reason for his state of mind in that catastrophic scene and lord knows most people believe it needs all the reasons it can get and yet I still don't want to do anything too direct to it.

 

Seems we both had our own different ideas of how the whole Angus thing went down, no I don't think Angus gave up just because of Ashley. I think he would believe that maybe Johnny was trying to really believe in her, do right by her and believe in her, he may not have agreed with it but he could understand it. However Johnny going down the meth path would be the final nail in the coffin for Angus.

 

Again Angus could understand it with the pain he'd been through but he couldn't watch yet another brother be consumed by it.

 

 

Well I only cooked up that idea on the basis of what Drunken Cowboy proposed, otherwise I still would have gone for the 'one time only reunion' route I suggested.

It drags a lot less and does the point in one redeeming cutscene.

 

And gives Johnny a nomination for best 'cameo role' or something.

 

You know, up until now, I never really gave much thought about what Angus felt about meth users.

Taking it back into consideration with what happened to Johnny ... whoa.

 

This 'no drug' policy of Rockstar is serious!

 

Or indeed as you suggested, forced to by lawyers threatening to sue or whatnot if more 'crime doesn't pay' content isn't placed in the forefront.

 

 

 

 

In my mind having Johnny know about Jim being alive and not forgiving him for it especially when he himself put it to Jim on at least two occasions about whether he should put his family before The Lost would only reinforce the aspects of Johnny's character that were so strongly disliked in GTA V. It comes back to being possible but unlikely and not enjoyable to experience.

 

 

I nearly forgot that I myself had proposed yet More conversations between Johnny and Jim regarding this possibility of 'leave it all' in my extended edition fiction thread!

 

And I even wrote that bit just to ease your mind on the whole 'Jim is still alive with the shiny briefcase in hand' scenario, haha.


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#10

Posted 24 November 2013 - 04:09 PM

Jim is immortal anyway, he was killed in pretty much every gang war I played in TLAD, so his "death" at the hands of Niko was no different :p In all seriousness though, I like the concept. As others have said might be hard to make into a DLC, but Rockstar could have defo incorporated this into GTA V somehow.


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#11

Posted 24 November 2013 - 05:08 PM

I don't think it'd be hard at all to design a small DLC sized mission structure and make it fun and playable. Difficulty isn't the right word, more completely unlikely that Rockstar would explain numerous plot holes in one swoop.

 

The biker vibe might not be as strong as it was in TLAD but it's not non existent and it's done this way as so it doesn't isolate as many people as TLAD may have done or that certain scene did.

 

It's funny I played TBoGT again recently (since I played TLAD to death) and it's amazing how much better the plot and characters feel compared to GTA V in my mind. Yeah it's not as good as IV or TLAD and it's got a load of flaws, but it really makes you notice how much standards slipped in V and it's that 'better' writing and angle I'm trying to get back. 

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#12

Posted 24 November 2013 - 06:04 PM

This can't be for real! Even Red Dead Redemption's mid-mission-traveling-whine-banters were better than what was laid out in Ballad.

 

If anything, Ballad lacked in length to make all the judgmental speeches deliver an effect more resounding than this 'I am surrounded by people who think differently than i' stretch.

 

Then again, maybe same criticism can go to GTA V as well; lacking in length to make its conflict more impactful.

But at least deliver, I thought, was more elegant and swift. It didn't dragged around and went mostly to the point. Situations that seems to lead to an inevitable conclusion isn't spent looping back and forth to delay the thing, instead it just goes for it.

Meanwhile it also cast away a lot of the old tropes presented in mission structures and deliveries. Characters who appear to be the main antagonists turned out not to be the case, and characters who seemed to be wholly in charge of the situation turns out to be complete wreck and impotent to handle the situation otherwise until all hell breaks loose.

 

In other words it's a bit of a string of unexpected events that roll from one scene to the next and then pops the end credits. Too soon perhaps, but in the meantime it was quite a ride.

 

Ballad on the other hand is a collection of 'flashes' to this other side of Liberty City, you wish you could give a damn to what is happening if only some consistence would be made as to what is actually going on.

 

That said I do have my share of ranting to make on Franklin in GTA V, and yes I could argue that some parts of Ballad were better delivered than Franklin's inclusion to Michael and Trevor's tale.

In fact I already did partially ranted about in DrunkenCowboy's shamelessly promoted thread.

http://gtaforums.com...y/?p=1064153256


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#13

Posted 25 November 2013 - 07:28 PM Edited by Drunken Cowboy, 25 November 2013 - 07:33 PM.

Characters who appear to be the main antagonists turned out not to be the case, and characters who seemed to be wholly in charge of the situation turns out to be complete wreck and impotent to handle the situation otherwise until all hell breaks loose.

 

 

You might have enjoyed that, but by no means were those intentional writing moves. The antagonists and the way they're presented in V is EASILY the worst of any GTA. Even running jobs for Bulgarin and then inexplicably chasing him down a runway (I forgot why after playing Ballad twice, that's how insignificant it was) struck me better than Weston/Stretch/Madrazzo/Devin/The Chinese Guy/Whoeverthef*ck

 

 

 

That said I do have my share of ranting to make on Franklin in GTA V, and yes I could argue that some parts of Ballad were better delivered than Franklin's inclusion to Michael and Trevor's tale.

In fact I already did partially ranted about in DrunkenCowboy's shamelessly promoted thread.

http://gtaforums.com...y/?p=1064153256

 

Again, it's real hard to close a solid story trio and appease your whole gamer demographic. The Ballad was the "we made two serious games, let's just let the players have some Saint's Row-style, stupid fun." to me. That's also how I saw Trevor, but even Luis felt less forced than T, mainly because it was that "Pulp Fiction" style I proposed: they're all heroes in their own right, but they're antagonistic towards one another. That's what Trevor should have been, instead of the "fak u mikul u betray me" psychopath that was forced to help Mike and Frank for really no apparent reason.

Franklin was definitely weak as well, but really in the sense that he added nothing instead of detracting from the story.

The Ballad, story-wise, was really not great, but at least it had that separation from the IV and TLaD, something forced Franklin and forced Trevor did not.


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#14

Posted 25 November 2013 - 09:03 PM

Interesting way you put it Cowboy and yes, I'm not saying Ballad was good, I'm just saying storyline it was better than V. Funny how this topic is going but I guess it's going nowhere fast in any case :p.

 

Trevor really wrecked the story for me on numerous levels but even aside that, I don't feel the same buzz or connection between most of the characters because so many of them feel forced.

 

I honestly believe it's a chain reaction of Trevor's influence on the most part seeing as a good chunk of the plot revolves around him trying to take the moral high ground from Michael while being completely morally wrong in so many ways worse than Michael but it's not limited to him.

 

Also Ballad had the potential to be good. Luis had the potential to be a very solid and well written character (swapping Dimitri and Bulgarin's roles around would have done wonders) and sorta still does. Trevor on the other hand in my mind was always going to fail and I don't think any sort of writing could ever make him or keep him from appeasing the 'chaos and do what I want' crowd while giving him a feasible character. The two are complete opposites of the spectrum and Trevor attempts to do both and it fails spectacularly.

 

The player does that stuff because there are no consequences in realistic terms. Worse case scenario they get busted or killed and keep on doing what they are doing. This obviously makes for a pretty poor character storyline wise, a Marty/Mary Sue if you will but that's exactly what they tried to do with Trevor and it does not work for anyone who can see beyond 'haha random moment'.


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#15

Posted 25 November 2013 - 09:46 PM

I still think you're missing out on Trevor's portion of Strangers & Freaks.

 

They may not save the day but they do offer a side to Trevor that you don't witness it in the story missions.

 

Hanging out with Jimmy, Franklin and Michael too yields out additional layers to his narrative.

 

If it's really that hard to get in touch with playing as Trevor ... well, put some clothes on him and change his hair cut, and pretend he is a different character altogether, and then let it sooth in more easily.

 

Oh yes Ballad had potential to be good, but it wasn't, and that's what i'm stuck with, an unsatisfying conclusion to the trinity saga, one where Bulgarin was shoehorned into becoming the 'big bad', and during the whole ride I wonder why I wasn't playing as a character who worked with Bulgarin in the first place, such as Timur.


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#16

Posted 25 November 2013 - 10:31 PM Edited by Peachrocks, 25 November 2013 - 10:32 PM.

I'm easing my way into him. If only to hit him with golf balls as Franklin which made me hear some of his lines.

 

My opinion is yet to change and in fact got reinforced by some of what Trevor said but... if you really want to torture me and put me through that, I guess I'll oblige you.

 

I don't deny that Trevor does speak some truths and I don't dislike EVERYTHING just the whole premise his character was on and ultimately this is just an opinion. Either way whether it's Trevor or not, I get a far better feel from playing Ballad than I do playing GTA V.


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#17

Posted 25 November 2013 - 10:49 PM

Well then I guess in that case there's no need to push it around with, in regards to Trevor.

Though ... well, how do I put it, there's at least two series of Stranger & Freaks subplot that doesn't revolve specifically around 'Trevor', it's not a 'me me me me' situation, and that's what kind of differentiate from the story missions, I suppose.

 

There was this moment where, during the exile portion, as Michael, I would casually pass by Trevor's trailer, and there outside, Trevor would be holding Patricia's hands and watching the sunrise. And the two would occasionally cuddle with one another.

I watched this while keeping in mind that, well, 'Michael' is the one who is watching.

And taking that into account, and how both Michael and Trevor seems to nod at each other, unless it's an animation defect ... it ...

 

It was definitively something that didn't happen with Franklin, anyway, I don't know how to explain this, but at least some effort was made into building Trevor's character and placing his relationship with the other characters to a believable degree.

Franklin meanwhile is this sore thumb there to fill up the necessary quota.

 

On my end of things i'll probably dive back into Ballad, part of a short GTA retrospective or something.

I'll try to force myself to hang out with Armando and Henrique after every mission this time around and see what they have to contribute.

 

No drug wars or club business though, especially the latter, standing by idly for five minutes in order to unlock the 'real' side mission content with the celebrities, what a drag.

 

 

Back on topic for a short while:

 

When I initially described the third protagonist as a more 'sane and consistent' version of Trevor, it didn't mean as an 'anti-Trevor' figure. Rather, keeping that same emotional toll the character of Trevor goes through, but without the constant implosions or needs to go making sarcastic comments that breaks the fourth wall.

Instead having a character that decides to soak it all in, attempting to 'deal with it'. And whether that part works for him or not, well ... 


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#18

Posted 26 November 2013 - 01:28 AM

Well if you say so. I kept hoping even after that terrible first impression that he'd make up for it but he kept digging that hole while being on his sickening moral high horse over Michael.

 

I don't find Franklin a fantastic addition and yeah a bit of a sore thumb but as Cowboy says at least he doesn't detract from the experience like Trevor does for many. I guess it's the whole thing, Franklin not really fitting within the plot and just hanging around, Michael's supporting cast didn't do him many favours I mean sure there was character development and Michael is the strongest character wise but still a touch weak compared to Niko and Johnny, probably not Luis though.

 

Don't force yourself to hang with Armando and Henrique. I like Henrique quite a bit but Armando is just an ass... I know he has abandonment issues and all but sheesh man... he really dragged Henrique down which is why I mentioned him in the first post and not Armando. Armando could have been a better character but the whole thing was horribly underdeveloped but at least it had potential.

 

I guess that's the thing I found okay with ballad. The characters just gel together slightly better then they do in GTA V. It's not anywhere near as good as TLAD or GTA IV. I just couldn't shake this impression of 'wow this isn't making me tear my hair out'. It's not that V is without any solid moments but it's far weaker in character development and plot then IV is.

 

Also I knew that's what you intended with our third character. I like that aspect of Trevor and that's why I warmed to the idea quickly because it's basically making Trevor as he would be if he didn't have to be 'oh look random chaos lol'...


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#19

Posted 27 November 2013 - 04:14 AM

hi guys let me just say that i love reading these theorys and dlc stuiff but i was thinking when the lost smashed trevors stuff it could have been jim who found out about jonnys death so he led a squad to do it.plus ron says the people that you kill to take the airstrip are not the guys.that smashed his stuff.i know it probably isint true but i thought it was  interesting


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#20

Posted 27 November 2013 - 05:16 AM

I don't see Jim doing something childish like that though it is a nice theory and something I did consider. I've got a fairly good picture painted now for how events would transpire.

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#21

Posted 28 November 2013 - 11:45 PM

A couple of random ideas.

 

- North Yankton, according to their LifeInvader social page as 'stalked' by Trevor, indicates that they have a seasonal hunting event.

I somehow imagined it as a possibility for some classic bonding between Jim and his son.

 

Although that might get too carried away into "Deer Hunter" references.

 

- Depending on how important the role of the third protagonist holds, I somehow thought it would have been interesting had he never interacts with Michael if Jim is along. Meaning that Michael never learns that our third man works with Jim and that Jim works with an ex-government agent. Therefor, a possibility in setting up this third protagonist as an actual mission-giver to Michael, if not even as a Stranger & Freak subplot. Sort of giving back the 'Trinity angle' feel of never knowing the full background or context the person you goes to work with truly has.


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#22

Posted 29 November 2013 - 06:56 PM Edited by Peachrocks, 29 November 2013 - 06:59 PM.

Yeah. I wanted there to be a minor storyline with custody over Jim's kid comes into it especially with the kid himself having preference for Jim's parenting style. Interesting note on the hunting.

 

I finally did those Trevor side missions. Unfortunately, my point of view only got confirmed even more. Confirming my bias? Perhaps but it is made even more clear in case his interactions with Wade weren't enough that Trevor suffers from abandonment issues.

 

The scene with his mother for instance. Yet he deems it totally acceptable to cause other people to 'disappear' from people's lives and manipulating people (Wade) as so to make them believe they have something in common with him... Weird...

 

Curtis (the final bounty target) himself points out just how much of a massive contradiction Trevor is accusing him of being a government puppet while Trevor fiercely refutes it all the while continuing to reinforce Curtis' point of view by continuing with the job. Sure Trevor doesn't give a sh*t about justice he's doing it for the money or thrill but it's clear that his so called principals take a back seat to whatever his own personal needs are at the time and this defines his character perfectly which is to say he is extremely selfish.

 

Oh and the rampages... In case it needed to be mentioned. I know why they are there (lol random killing yay) but aside the army one Trevor is the primary instigator. Sooooo yeah....

 

It is on that note of the bounty hunting that I have my third character put together a little more neatly. I really liked Maude as a character and feel she was really wasted on Trevor. She is one of the few characters Trevor has amicable relations with. Although yes she retires I think she could hit a few snags with her plan and have a need for cash and is of course another font of information.

 

I ditched the government agent idea but the whole concept was for him to be a man working for the government in some way. Instead I'm going with the army. A fellow Captain like Michael Klebitz, both of them kicked out because of corruption, because they took a stand on something they knew to be wrong and Michael realizes that little brother Johnny had it right from the start.

 

Michael comes up with the plan of seeing his brother. They needed someone in the know of the criminal world to be able to figure this mess out and track down the people who are ultimately responsible however Michael is assassinated on arrival to Los Santos. This gives another chance at the biker vibe and while our mystery man doesn't officially join The Lost he has solid relations with them and Johnny while bounty hunting to both get information and to make a bit of money as well. It also reinforces the whole 'disillusioned justice' theme.

 

It's through this association with Johnny that Stubbs comes to know who he is and why he contacts him as well as Jim after Johnny's death. It's all very skeleton like at the moment but eh, if I am bothered I may make a story out of it yet Grievous.


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#23

Posted 29 November 2013 - 07:52 PM

A BOUNTY HUNTER YOU SAY?!!

 

Instant-Buy.

 

Seriously, I can't believe Rockstar still hasn't pulled out a character based on the bounty hunter trope.

 

No, John Marston doesn't count. Well, sort of, yes, but I meant a modern-day bounty hunter, something that is a less profitable enterprise due to the modern age, and not a job that any man with a rifle can go out and try to earn a bag of coins.

 

Also, you could work in that Achilles-style dragging Trevor across the desert as the opening for your third character after all.

 

On the subject of Trevor: isn't his selfish need in attempting to resolve his abandonment issues made ... clear enough in the story missions?

 

I mean wasn't it the reason why his encounter with Floyd and Debra occurred in such a fashion to begin with? due to what he deems as a 'rude' rejection?

 

Yes I'm glad to see you went through the bail bond targets for the dialogues; since I did it early on after unlocking Trevor, I guess I kind of already had my mind made up about him after these conversations he had with the targets.

 

With the Strangers & Freaks I thought it was interesting how it explored situations he was never shown to be placed into in the story.

The elderly british, who mistakes him for Jock Cranley, an action movie star from the 80s currently running for governor, is somewhat fitting in the sense that Trevor himself is a man who has aspirations to be a 'successful business entrepreneur' but seems like a world apart from his dream position.

Whichever the case it was never made clear as to why Trevor decides to assist these people on a quest that he finds no enjoyment in, other than perhaps, Trevor does have a tendency of liking to do whatever he is being told to do as long as he is given ... a compliment, or looked upon highly.

 

Which then leads to the Minute Men, who also congratulates and hires Trevor on his skillful capacities in his assistance. In the end it touches on the subject of Trevor's conscience, or rather, the potential lack and/or misplacement he has depending on the impeding position he is faced with. And it is left ambiguous as to whether he is simply there to do whatever the first stranger comes up to him and asks him to do, or does he truly have an empathy? is the reason he takes Manuel's orders a question of principle, or he is feigning to 'maintain' whatever principles he believes himself to carry? A drama queen in some essence?

 

The Real-estate affair with Josh was a bit random I have to say, especially considering how it occurs so late into the story. Maybe as a parallel to his recent act of having kidnapped Patricia?

 

As for the rampages, supposedly the reason he flips out every time is because of people calling him 'mother' related profanities.

Personally I didn't notice it on my first playthrough, i'll have to check it up again. 

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#24

Posted 29 November 2013 - 09:22 PM

Of course it all occurred to me already about Trevor being selfish etc. I was just highlighting it.

I have to be honest Trevor does work better as a solo character and I don't despise him as much but I still strongly dislike him and his whole selfish/calculated jerk while trying to pass it off as lol random this and that. It just doesn't make for a solid story...

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#25

Posted 04 December 2013 - 08:31 PM

 

 

In TLAD and GTA IV there’s a few odd things regarding Jim’s death. Firstly the retcon. That the man Niko kills looks nothing like Jim. Most likely it is indeed a simple retcon however this man appears alongside Jim in TLAD. Why?

 

So you're saying that the Johnny from GTA 4 and the Johnny from TLAD aren't the same Johnny because they look different?


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#26

Posted 05 December 2013 - 01:23 AM Edited by Peachrocks, 05 December 2013 - 01:29 AM.

Wait what? I'm not talking about Johnny I'm talking about Jim.

 

The differences between TLAD Jim and the guy who is supposedly Jim in GTA IV are major.

 

The guy who is said to be identified as Jim, the same guy who taunts Niko is seen alongside Jim in TLAD just before his 'death'.


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#27

Posted 08 December 2013 - 04:54 PM Edited by Grievous, 08 December 2013 - 04:55 PM.

Hold on, regarding the above suggestion that Jim goes smashing Trevor's trailer ...

 

Was I the only one who kind of believed that it was actually Ron who did it ? ...


Peachrocks
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#28

Posted 09 December 2013 - 01:15 PM

I never suspected Ron of that... What makes you think it was him. It'd be amusing if it was but why? Ron idolizes Trevor for no real apparent reason...


NickStone
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#29

Posted 30 May 2014 - 12:38 PM Edited by NickStone, 30 May 2014 - 12:39 PM.

Sad to see this thread kinda die out, some really nice ideas here. Hope someone's taken it upon themselves to email a link to R*, if they're not already trolling the forums. :) Since input was encouraged in the original post, I'll throw my $0.02 in :)

 

Technical issues: I'm wondering how they would release something like this. When thinking in terms of disk space, Ludendorff current takes very little space, since all that really exists of the town is the main road, and buildings/locations related to the story. New scenery objects would need to be built, to "fill out" the town, as well as special scenery that will relate to this new story...its almost building a new sandbox from scratch, and when finished, might end up being about the size of Liberty City, or a bit smaller. (Personally, I'd love to see Liberty City added to GTAV's map! But anyway..) San Andreas and the new Ludendorff together might pose a logistics problem in terms of publishing & distribution. 'Episode of Liberty City' was called a DLC, but was actually a standalone copy - didn't need the GTAIV disc to play it. Since the two worlds combined might be too large for a disc, would they forego this method this time, and make it a download-only addon? Would end up being the largest DLC I've ever downloaded, but I'd be happy to do it! This would also be a nice start to what might become 'Sagas of San Andreas', since the story you've outlined could possibly run concurrent with the events of GTAV, or immediate before or after, and partially during.

 

Michael's involvement: If Stubbs were to enlist the services of Michael, I think he'd need something more than merely witnessing his Merryweather-related activities. Stubbs would needto have a really hard hold on Michael to get him on a leash. This could be done by Michael doing something stupid, similar to him pulling a house down off a cliff. Maybe this event for which Stubbs blackmails him happened after the end of the GTAV storyline, or something he did a long time ago that he was never caught for...maybe it happened in Liberty City - did Michael ever spend time there, or has Stubbs ever been in a position of power anywhere else?

 

Dont worry, thats all I'm gonna add. Love to see something like this come to fruition. Agree that Lost fans seemed to have been dealt an insulting slap in the face with GTAV, and this might make up for it. I, too, have some ideas in my head for Sagas of San Andreas, like going back to Trevor's earlier....indiscretions, or even something involving Lamar. :) Ah, but that's not for this thread.


Peachrocks
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#30

Posted 30 May 2014 - 03:05 PM Edited by Peachrocks, 30 May 2014 - 03:07 PM.

If Stubbs had Jim take video footage of the engagement then Stubbs used it to blackmail/help Michael, I'd say that's pretty solid. Especially since we aren't given exactly any real guarantees the Merryweather/FIB side of the story is over. Don Percival for instance is unaccounted for and he may have emailed Trevor and Michael about not interfering anymore but such things mean little.

I developed this idea a long way since this original post and some of the details are a bit more fleshed out as well as how the first heist/big mission would play out.

Added a bit more of a biker vibe by having the third bounty hunter character work closely with familiar parts of The Lost due to them formerly working with Michael Klebitz in the army and thus connecting to Johnny over Michael K's assassination. Gives a bit more insight into the fall of The Lost or more accurately the rift between Johnny and mostly everyone else.

Still, it is merely an idea that almost certainly won't be implemented though I'm more than happy to hear input because I'll play with it and put up more details. Wouldn't mind hearing some of your own thoughts either.




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