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Evidence of why Revenge ending is canon?

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BurkeKnight
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#31

Posted 11 December 2013 - 10:17 PM

In my opinion, GTA V followed the way Niko was designed.

As even Kate pointed out in the call right before the choice, Niko had his morals, and doing the deal, would go against them.

 

If that does not suggest cannon, then it at least tells the choice Rockstar favored.

Even I agree that maybe the two endings were added due to not knowing which would be best, but I think R* had favored Revenge, as it seems to fit Niko's character.

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lilchris131
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#32

Posted 11 December 2013 - 11:14 PM Edited by lilchris131, 11 December 2013 - 11:18 PM.

As much as I would like Deal to be the true ending because it seems more cinematic, I can't help but agree that Revenge makes more sense with Niko's moral code. Maybe he might have done the deal if Dimitri left him alone after the mission "Roman's Sorrow", but after that he kidnapped Roman in an attempt to get him killed, and also tipped Bulgarin off about the diamond exchange, nearly getting him killed again (He also harassed his friend Bernie). It seems unlikely that Niko would ever work with Dmitri again after that.
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Excolis
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#33

Posted 20 December 2013 - 07:48 PM

Can't be both endings canon?


CJ killed Ryder
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#34

Posted 06 February 2015 - 01:11 PM

I'm sorry for bumping this old thread but I really need to say this: Where is proof LifeInvader didn't exist in GTA IV? That it isn't mentioned doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Yes, you can't find it on the in-game internet but the player never has acces to the entire internet.


Stoney0503
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#35

Posted 06 February 2015 - 01:50 PM

Didn't R* say Roman's fate is upto the player?


cp1dell
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#36

Posted 08 February 2015 - 11:30 PM

Yup. They absolutely refuse to give us an official answer/choice.

 

Like someone else mentioned, it's odd that in GTA V it's called "Roman's Taxi Service" whereas it was named something more ambiguous in GTA IV. It's most likely referenced as "Roman's Taxi Service" to make the easter egg more noticeable. Not everyone would easily be able to pick out the real name and say: "Woah sh*t! That's the cab company from GTA IV!"

 

Then there's Niko having a Life Invader page, though in GTA IV he's a bit of a "technophobe" as described by Roman.

 

In GTA V you have easter eggs that may or may not be canon, suggesting that Roman may or may not be alive.

In GTA IV, you have Packie talking about how he has to stay in LC if something ever happened to Kate, because no one else can take care of Ma. Yet in TBoGT, we can see Packie leaving Liberty City and boarding a plane - most likely to Los Santos. It's worth mentioning TBoGT's final mission/credit scenes take place the day after IV's ending.

 

If Kate is dead, than Packie could not leave for LS at the end of TBoGT. This cancels the possibility of the Revenge ending being able to happen.

Yet here we are in GTA V, where there are easter eggs that may or may not be canon, saying Roman might be alive.

 

Rockstar obviously likes to tease us with hints and clues that either ending might be possible. They're never going to confirm it.

 

Personally, I like to look at the trailers for answers, and the Deal ending and Ending C are the only endings that have scenes and dialogue that show up in the game's trailers. Along with a few other reasons that I take into consideration when it comes to the "canon" choices in IV, and the "canon" heists in GTA V. But that's a whole different thing I don't want to get into.


lilchris131
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#37

Posted 09 February 2015 - 06:01 PM

Maybe Packie leaving for Los Santos proves that Niko killed Derrick instead of Francis (meaning Francis could take care of their mother) more than the Deal ending being canon. While I am a little disappointed because I prefer Deal as an ending, Revenge makes just as much sense if not more concerning Niko's moral code and there are strong hints in GTA V towards Revenge being the canon ending. I guess we don't know for sure though.


Zello
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#38

Posted 09 February 2015 - 10:04 PM Edited by Zello, 09 February 2015 - 10:05 PM.

Maybe Packie leaving for Los Santos proves that Niko killed Derrick instead of Francis (meaning Francis could take care of their mother) more than the Deal ending being canon. While I am a little disappointed because I prefer Deal as an ending, Revenge makes just as much sense if not more concerning Niko's moral code and there are strong hints in GTA V towards Revenge being the canon ending. I guess we don't know for sure though.

The thing about Niko's moral code is that his visit in LC changed him. The Niko that got off the Platypus in broker is a different Niko than the one at the end on Happiness Island.

He went from saying he wouldn't kill anyone to being one of the most feared hired guns in the city


cp1dell
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#39

Posted 09 February 2015 - 10:32 PM

Maybe Packie leaving for Los Santos proves that Niko killed Derrick instead of Francis (meaning Francis could take care of their mother) more than the Deal ending being canon. While I am a little disappointed because I prefer Deal as an ending, Revenge makes just as much sense if not more concerning Niko's moral code and there are strong hints in GTA V towards Revenge being the canon ending. I guess we don't know for sure though.

I can't remember if the Packie line is something he says while you hang out, or a phone call if you pick "Revenge." But I'm sure regardless if Francis is alive or not, Packie will say that him or Kate has to take care of Ma because no one else will.


lilchris131
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#40

Posted 09 February 2015 - 10:44 PM

 

Maybe Packie leaving for Los Santos proves that Niko killed Derrick instead of Francis (meaning Francis could take care of their mother) more than the Deal ending being canon. While I am a little disappointed because I prefer Deal as an ending, Revenge makes just as much sense if not more concerning Niko's moral code and there are strong hints in GTA V towards Revenge being the canon ending. I guess we don't know for sure though.

I can't remember if the Packie line is something he says while you hang out, or a phone call if you pick "Revenge." But I'm sure regardless if Francis is alive or not, Packie will say that him or Kate has to take care of Ma because no one else will.

 

 

That's true, if Kate dies the call is always the same, whether Derrick or Francis is dead.


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#41

Posted 10 February 2015 - 07:57 PM Edited by CJ killed Ryder, 10 February 2015 - 08:05 PM.

 

 

Maybe Packie leaving for Los Santos proves that Niko killed Derrick instead of Francis (meaning Francis could take care of their mother) more than the Deal ending being canon. While I am a little disappointed because I prefer Deal as an ending, Revenge makes just as much sense if not more concerning Niko's moral code and there are strong hints in GTA V towards Revenge being the canon ending. I guess we don't know for sure though.

I can't remember if the Packie line is something he says while you hang out, or a phone call if you pick "Revenge." But I'm sure regardless if Francis is alive or not, Packie will say that him or Kate has to take care of Ma because no one else will.

 

 

That's true, if Kate dies the call is always the same, whether Derrick or Francis is dead.

 

Well, in my opinion, the Niko who kills Playboy X is also the one who kills Francis and who does the Revenge ending. The Niko who kills Dwayne is the one who kills Derrick and does the deal. 

 

In my opinion, if u play the game, Niko should do "Only money choices" or "Only principle choices", not "sometimes money and sometimes moral choices". So the "Derrick is dead and Roman is alive-thing is canon" makes no sense for me. Otherwise Niko is being hypocrite: Niko refusing to work with Dimitri because Dimitri is a rat who betrayed him while Niko himself killed Derrick for money and the ability to lose his wanted level easier... What makes Niko different than Dimitri in this case?

 

So if Derrick is killed by Niko, which Packie implies in GTA V (but not fully confirms because maybe he dies between GTA IV and V), then Deal must be canon.

 

In other words: the Niko who does Revenge is the moral Niko, the Niko who does deal is the one who does aything for money.

 

But that's just my opinion. :)


Stoney0503
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#42

Posted 10 February 2015 - 09:10 PM

Maybe both Roman and Kate died?

Or maybe Niko was actually in a mental asylum and all of IV's story was all in his head and had a doctor called Cilleb Namor?

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#43

Posted 11 February 2015 - 04:17 AM

Because if they killed Roman, I will find them, and I will ask them to go bowling....
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#44

Posted 12 February 2015 - 06:19 PM

I think the ending was canon mostly because of the Lifeinvader easter egg.


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#45

Posted 12 February 2015 - 07:36 PM

Well, its never said that Niko killed Derrick. Remember, Derrick was a junkie, so its also highly possible his drug habits caught up to him and he died from that, while Niko killed Francis.


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#46

Posted 12 February 2015 - 07:57 PM

Rockstar is usually really careful with eastereggs like these. They know their fanbase and how everyone overanalyzes everything. Remember that Los Santos billboard in GTA IV?

I guess the LI page was pretty hard to find, so it might be a legitimate hint.
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Stoney0503
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#47

Posted 13 February 2015 - 04:01 PM

I'm just sitting here wondering why Jimmy is ALWAYS looking at Niko's LifeInvader page.

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AuSsIeThUnDeR36
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#48

Posted 13 February 2015 - 10:36 PM

To me is makes sense that Niko does the Revenge mission on Dimitri then finally dealing with Pegorino. I think it's canon that Roman should be there at the end and that Kate dies. I feel Niko didn't have much of a connection with Kate anyway and Roman is Niko's cousin, that had been through a lot together so it makes sense that he should survive to the end.

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#49

Posted 13 February 2015 - 11:43 PM

Yeah Niko didn't have that much of a connection with Kate, and he was closer to Roman - so wouldn't you say he listens to Roman's advice instead and goes through with the deal?

 

I mean hell, he was going to do the Deal anyways when he heard he wouldn't have to work with Dimitri. It wasn't until Roman somehow knew where Dimitri was, and told Niko that he considers getting revenge.


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#50

Posted 14 February 2015 - 12:28 AM

But it seems stupid that Niko would to want to do a deal with Dimitri to end everything. In Niko's mind he would want Dimitri dead, after destroying the home and Taxi business, then even taunting Niko about not finding his body amongst the dead at the warehouse, I could imagine Niko wouldn't be able to trust Dimitri.

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#51

Posted 17 February 2015 - 04:08 AM

I thought Revenge was obviously Canon. Why would Niko work with Dimitri after everything that slimeball did to him, his friends, and loved ones.

Packie's mother probably died. She's old and losing a son(Francis) and her daughter was probably too much for her.

Derrick probably died in a ditch somewhere.

 

Plus the Lifeinvader thing got updated in the NG V. It basically says Roman is alive.

Nothing on Kate. She's dead

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Tycek
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#52

Posted 17 February 2015 - 07:09 PM

Unless one of the endings will be officially confirmed as canon, both of them can be considered as one at the same time, especially that they have the same weight and both give a conclusion to the story. Niko could of course kill Dimitri for what he had done, but at the same time he realized that revenge brings no conclusion and with assurance that he won't have to have a contact with Rasacalov, he could easily do the deal as Pegorino asked. Especially that Niko and Phil were just a middle men. 


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#53

Posted 17 February 2015 - 07:55 PM

Well, the Easter Egg doesn't prove anything, even if they will reveal LifeInvader was founded after 2008 in future, it might be another Rockstar-plothole.

 

Remember how Playboy X became leader of North Holland Hustlers in the '90s while being born in 1983, when being an 11 year old. Roman's cab business in Broker being there in Chinatown Wars despite being destroyed in IV. Johnny and Ashley being back together in V, Claude and Catalina leaving to Liberty City in GTA San Andreas which takes place in 1992 while GTA III which takes place in 2001 reveals they recently arrived. List goes on. ;)


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#54

Posted 18 February 2015 - 07:18 PM Edited by Zello, 18 February 2015 - 07:20 PM.

Claude and Catalina leaving to Liberty City in GTA San Andreas which takes place in 1992 while GTA III which takes place in 2001 reveals they recently arrived.

 

In SA they didn't leave for LC they went to go on a crime spree all over The states for nine years. They were pretty much the Bonnie and Clyde of the GTA world.

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cp1dell
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#55

Posted 19 February 2015 - 03:00 AM

Why would Niko work with Dimitri after everything that slimeball did to him, his friends, and loved ones.

I just don't think this is a good enough reason to say that the Revenge ending is the canon, or "right" choice. Niko was literally about to do the deal mission until Roman called him and revealed that Dimitri was packing the heroine onto the Platypus (which I still find strange that Roman of all people knew this, and accidentally tells Niko).

Packie's mother probably died. She's old and losing a son(Francis) and her daughter was probably too much for her.

It's hard to say, and this isn't conclusive enough to use as a reason for Packie to be able to leave and the Revenge ending make sense. You're basing this off the idea that she might be dead. There is literally nothing suggesting that she is dead or alive. All you have is the dialogue of Packie mentioning he can't leave LC unless someone else is there and able to take care of Ma, and the fact that Packie leaves for Los Santos a day or two after the events of IV's ending.

Derrick probably died in a ditch somewhere.

The Derrick and Francis thing just makes this even more confusing. Packie will mentioning Derrick being dead, in V, but he doesn't make any mention of Francis. One could be dead, but depending on what choice the player made in IV - both could be dead. Then again, in IV, Packie doesn't really see Francis as one of his brothers considering their very different lines of work compared to his other brothers, and rarely talks about him. Still, it's very hard to say.

Plus the Lifeinvader thing got updated in the NG V. It basically says Roman is alive.

Nothing on Kate. She's dead

It didn't get updated, the texture quality was just increased and it's easier to read. If Roman is supposedly alive, and the easter egg is hard conclusive evidence from Rockstar, than why no mention of Kate? No need to leave her fate ambiguous if it's been "confirmed" Roman is alive. You would think Packie would have mentioned her too when listing off his dead relatives. Personally, I still look at it as a simple easter egg.

 

From the callbacks in V, and the dialogue and events in IV, both endings are reasonable and up in the air.

 

Fingers crossed that one day, Rockstar will reveal what choices and endings they originally had in mind when writing IV and V's stories.

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CJ killed Ryder
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#56

Posted 19 February 2015 - 10:27 AM Edited by CJ killed Ryder, 19 February 2015 - 10:28 AM.

 

 

Fingers crossed that one day, Rockstar will reveal what choices and endings they originally had in mind when writing IV and V's stories.

 

I hope they won't reveal anything as canon. If Deal ending is canon, the ones chosen Revenge will be pissed off, and if Revenge is canon, the ones chosen Deal will be pissed off.

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#57

Posted 25 February 2015 - 09:03 PM

The reason why Revenge is better is because the mission on the Platypus killing Dimitri is much better than the generic warehouse deal mission. It's probably my favorite GTA IV mission.


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#58

Posted 26 February 2015 - 06:03 AM Edited by Zello, 26 February 2015 - 06:10 AM.

The reason why Revenge is better is because the mission on the Platypus killing Dimitri is much better than the generic warehouse deal mission. It's probably my favorite GTA IV mission.

I find the deal ending more emotional. Killing him on the platypus was meh. Watching Dimitri die on happiness island was one of the most powerful moments in the series. The storm during the chase and then the final shot of the statue of happiness looking at the city really sent chills down my spine.
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#59

Posted 26 February 2015 - 10:15 AM

I'm with the people who like deal. It made sense for Niko, he was burnt out physically and mentally. I sensed that after killing Ray, he was sick of dealing in death. Killing Darko brought him no joy or closure. If be was as tired as he seemed, he'd comply with Peg's order so he can have one less enemy. He also had a good relationship with Phil. You can make the case for both though
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#60

Posted 26 February 2015 - 09:03 PM

I'm with the people who like deal. It made sense for Niko, he was burnt out physically and mentally. I sensed that after killing Ray, he was sick of dealing in death. Killing Darko brought him no joy or closure. If be was as tired as he seemed, he'd comply with Peg's order so he can have one less enemy. He also had a good relationship with Phil. You can make the case for both though

It makes sense for the Deal considering Niko was progressively becoming more greedy. It became really obvious when Playboy X asks Niko to kill Dwayne as he's walking out the door, but the moment he says he'll pay Niko a lot of money, his head spins around. Not to say I think Niko would kill Dwayne, but somewhere around that point Niko was becoming more attracted to money than before.

 

And if that's the case, it would make sense why Packie mentions Derrick being dead in GTA V. The only way we know of Derrick being dead is if Niko kills him, and Francis offered him a lot of money.

 

If Niko continues down this path, and from realizing from killing Darko (because honestly, why wouldn't he?) that revenge didn't fix everything, it makes even more sense for Niko to forget about revenge, and go ahead with the deal.

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