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Lack of San Andreas Elements

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Vanjingle
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#61

Posted 23 November 2013 - 05:23 PM

 

Everyone keeps saying that GTA V is another game another story. I realize this, but it's a regional thing. You would expect a game set in a highly gang populated area to have a large amount of features relating to that gang population.

 

 

 

So a skateboarding game set in southern California should have a lot of gang related elements?

 

That was a pretty ignorant question, because they're two different gang genres. We're obviously talking about GTA. That's like saying that Call of Duty: Idaho should be about growing potatoes.


iProinsias
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#62

Posted 23 November 2013 - 05:27 PM

 

 

Everyone keeps saying that GTA V is another game another story. I realize this, but it's a regional thing. You would expect a game set in a highly gang populated area to have a large amount of features relating to that gang population.

 

 

 

So a skateboarding game set in southern California should have a lot of gang related elements?

 

That was a pretty ignorant question, because they're two different gang genres. We're obviously talking about GTA. That's like saying that Call of Duty: Idaho should be about growing potatoes.

 

 

 

Or saying, oh, I don't know "a game set in an area that has gangs should have a lot to do with those gangs"?

 

L.A. Noire is set in 1947 LA, you don't think there were street gangs at that time and place? Yet how much of the game involves those gangs? And that game is as much about crime as GTA. Your logic is broken.


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#63

Posted 23 November 2013 - 05:31 PM

Everyone keeps saying that GTA V is another game another story. I realize this, but it's a regional thing. You would expect a game set in a highly gang populated area to have a large amount of features relating to that gang population.

 

They should have put the same gang elements as in GTA SA!! Features like gang territories/recruiting/tagging etc. Why put a semi gangbanger like Franklin in the game and don't give him stuff like this to do? 

 

Now they left all these features out but gave nothing in return

Recruiting in this would make the game, that much better. I remember driving around in GTA SA with a car full of people you just met and kicking ass. 

 

I dont recall that at all. The recruitment system was lazily implemented. The fellow members barely listened to commands and since the gang peds always attack enemy gangs and cops anyway, having them "in your group" doesn't make them any more efficient or worthwhile. You could recruit a load of people, but had no way of transporting them all since they didn't have the intelligence to tail in their own cars or occupy unconventional seats in unique vehicles (such as in the back of a truck or on a tank). They were completely useless (aside from being able to have them take your picture, which is the one thing in the whole game you need them for) and met way too many tragic ends under the mercy of random cars, whose drivers are freaking out because you provoked a gang war.

 

What would have been much better is if you could have the other 2 playable characters game controlled while you control one, and being able to switch around between them as well as you can do during missions. That's an opportunity well missed, in my opinion.


Midnightz
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#64

Posted 23 November 2013 - 06:21 PM

I'm wondering if the gang satire in SA was somehow lost here. V aims to be more serious and less goofy. It also aims to piss YOU off. It will find some way of succeeding whether you want it to or not. Once you're pissed... Enter: Trevor.

Sure in SA, it was fun getting a bus and fitting 7 homies in it but my gawd their AI was terrible, lol. Terribly funny. Chop is the closest AI comparison here. Which feels like another jab. "Whazzup dawg?" "Hey dog." (Did you miss that punch in the face?)

V makes fun of everyone in a darker way. SA was lighthearted. Even Lamar is a knock at homies. Every other word from his mouth is nigga and he makes dumbass decisions. If you want stupid gang related crime, he's your man. If you want sophisticated gang related crime in the hood, you would want... someone new.

I really think they haven't unrolled everything in SP yet.

Sidenote: The only reason R* is spared from scathing reviews about their stereotypes is because they make fun of absolutely everyone and everything including its own games.

Midnightz
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#65

Posted 23 November 2013 - 06:51 PM

(Where the hell is the edit button?). Ugh...

I'm with Deji on the missed opportunity to toggle between chars. I was also very surprised V makes it impossible to ride in truck beds when we clearly wanted that in SA (as another seat).

When playing SA, I still crouch CJ in a truck bed and just let the ped drive wherever. In V, I get thrown off almost immediately. :(

Riding the hood or hanging onto vehicles exists during missions and thus, in future PC mods but I'm not sure how the truck bed riding can be fixed.

Vanjingle
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#66

Posted 23 November 2013 - 07:11 PM

 

 

 

Everyone keeps saying that GTA V is another game another story. I realize this, but it's a regional thing. You would expect a game set in a highly gang populated area to have a large amount of features relating to that gang population.

 

 

 

So a skateboarding game set in southern California should have a lot of gang related elements?

 

That was a pretty ignorant question, because they're two different gang genres. We're obviously talking about GTA. That's like saying that Call of Duty: Idaho should be about growing potatoes.

 

 

 

Or saying, oh, I don't know "a game set in an area that has gangs should have a lot to do with those gangs"?

 

L.A. Noire is set in 1947 LA, you don't think there were street gangs at that time and place? Yet how much of the game involves those gangs? And that game is as much about crime as GTA. Your logic is broken.

 

How is that broken logic? Los Angeles is considered the "Gang Capital" of america. GTA V is pretty much ignoring the culture of the state and I say culture because it has been embedded in their history for decades


iProinsias
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#67

Posted 23 November 2013 - 08:36 PM

 

 

 

 

Everyone keeps saying that GTA V is another game another story. I realize this, but it's a regional thing. You would expect a game set in a highly gang populated area to have a large amount of features relating to that gang population.

 

 

 

So a skateboarding game set in southern California should have a lot of gang related elements?

 

That was a pretty ignorant question, because they're two different gang genres. We're obviously talking about GTA. That's like saying that Call of Duty: Idaho should be about growing potatoes.

 

 

 

Or saying, oh, I don't know "a game set in an area that has gangs should have a lot to do with those gangs"?

 

L.A. Noire is set in 1947 LA, you don't think there were street gangs at that time and place? Yet how much of the game involves those gangs? And that game is as much about crime as GTA. Your logic is broken.

 

How is that broken logic? Los Angeles is considered the "Gang Capital" of america. GTA V is pretty much ignoring the culture of the state and I say culture because it has been embedded in their history for decades

 

 

No, they aren't. Gangs exist, they're just not a major focus of the game. Just because people live in LA doesn't mean they're constantly interacting with gangs. The mafia has been in Chicago for decades, if a developer makes a game set there they have to include the mafia? Your logic IS broken.


Vanjingle
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#68

Posted 23 November 2013 - 09:24 PM

 

 

 

 

 

Everyone keeps saying that GTA V is another game another story. I realize this, but it's a regional thing. You would expect a game set in a highly gang populated area to have a large amount of features relating to that gang population.

 

 

 

So a skateboarding game set in southern California should have a lot of gang related elements?

 

That was a pretty ignorant question, because they're two different gang genres. We're obviously talking about GTA. That's like saying that Call of Duty: Idaho should be about growing potatoes.

 

 

 

Or saying, oh, I don't know "a game set in an area that has gangs should have a lot to do with those gangs"?

 

L.A. Noire is set in 1947 LA, you don't think there were street gangs at that time and place? Yet how much of the game involves those gangs? And that game is as much about crime as GTA. Your logic is broken.

 

How is that broken logic? Los Angeles is considered the "Gang Capital" of america. GTA V is pretty much ignoring the culture of the state and I say culture because it has been embedded in their history for decades

 

 

No, they aren't. Gangs exist, they're just not a major focus of the game. Just because people live in LA doesn't mean they're constantly interacting with gangs. The mafia has been in Chicago for decades, if a developer makes a game set there they have to include the mafia? Your logic IS broken.

 

I never said they HAD to be a major focus of the game? I'm just saying that San Andreas included them, a lot. What do you know? We're set in San Andreas again, and now all of a sudden they're barely even there.


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#69

Posted 23 November 2013 - 09:26 PM

In the future don't expect sequels to be the same as prequels.

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#70

Posted 23 November 2013 - 09:34 PM

I never said they HAD to be a major focus of the game? I'm just saying that San Andreas included them, a lot. What do you know? We're set in San Andreas again, and now all of a sudden they're barely even there.

 

 

 

But they AREN'T "barely there". They're as present as ever, the game just doesn't focus on them. So how is Rockstar "ignoring the culture of the state" by including them and just not focusing on them in the story?  That's like saying Rockstar is ignoring the culture of the state by not including a lot of overtly gay characters, as CA has a higher concentration of homosexuals then most of the rest of the country. Just because the story takes place in a city where gangs exist doesn't mean the story, or even the game itself, has to have them be an even slightly prominent aspect.


Vanjingle
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#71

Posted 23 November 2013 - 09:48 PM

All I'm saying is it actually does make sense for a sequel to resemble the prequel. Most games and movies have prequels that include things from the first and if they don't then it's not a prequel.


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#72

Posted 23 November 2013 - 10:01 PM

All I'm saying is it actually does make sense for a sequel to resemble the prequel. Most games and movies have prequels that include things from the first and if they don't then it's not a prequel.


Why is it a surprise? The whole "new universe" thing was announced before the release.

Vanjingle
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#73

Posted 23 November 2013 - 10:11 PM

 

All I'm saying is it actually does make sense for a sequel to resemble the prequel. Most games and movies have prequels that include things from the first and if they don't then it's not a prequel.


Why is it a surprise? The whole "new universe" thing was announced before the release.

 

Why is what a surprise? He's pretty much saying that GTA Vice City and GTA Vice City Stories will have nothing in common..


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#74

Posted 23 November 2013 - 10:15 PM

All I'm saying is it actually does make sense for a sequel to resemble the prequel. Most games and movies have prequels that include things from the first and if they don't then it's not a prequel.


Why is it a surprise? The whole "new universe" thing was announced before the release.
Why is what a surprise? He's pretty much saying that GTA Vice City and GTA Vice City Stories will have nothing in common..
What has that got to do with GTA: San Andreas and GTA V? They're not directly linked. Hell, they're not even relatively linked. The only thing they have in common is that they share the same city. That said, GTA III and GTA IV were both set in Liberty City yet had little to nothing in common. That said, why are people complaining about their being little similarity to previous instalments?

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#75

Posted 24 November 2013 - 02:30 AM

R* gives a taste of everything from past GTAs in V while bringing us an entirely new game. Why did I like GTA III but become bored with LCS? Too much of the same.

In SA, those cool arcade games gave us something extra to do. It was a neat feature. But you'd play them a few times and move onto something else. Is it worth it to bring them back when the memory/space could be utilized for a cool new feature never seen before? No, and that's the point.

In V, you have some missions and side missions that involve gangs. (There aren't that many missions period.) There are desert gangs. You have gangs in their hoods and driving around. I've seen Vagos (yellow), Ballas (purple), Los Aztecas (light blue), Groves (green), Bikers, and a few others (?) wearing white bandanas and beige clothing. I've seen what looks like gang complexity - gangs within gangs even. You can interact with them: talk, antagonize, fight. You get more than 3 ped models in each gang now. Their activity is more realistic. Their response to you, more realistic. All of this is improvement.

I do miss the silly lightheartedness of SA's Grove St Families. Sometimes V is a little too serious.
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iProinsias
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#76

Posted 24 November 2013 - 03:06 AM

Sometimes V is a little too serious.

 

 

Not to start an argument, just out of general curiosity, in what way? I feel like the game is trying to emulate/pay homage to classic heist movies, most of which are grounded (as much as possible) in reality. And let's be honest, wouldn't most of the heists pulled off in the game require a level of seriousness from those involved? I feel like the game is trying, as best it can, to make you feel the intensity that would be present in such daring takes.


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#77

Posted 24 November 2013 - 03:08 AM

Can't you SA fanboys accept a different game than SA, honestly? 


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#78

Posted 24 November 2013 - 03:15 AM

Can't you SA fanboys accept a different game than SA, honestly? 

 

 

For real. SA was the sh*t when it came out, but haven't you moved on since the PS2?


Midnightz
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#79

Posted 24 November 2013 - 05:56 AM

Eh? Most of my posts in this thread have been showing how V still embraces many loved elements of SA. I've defended V all over the place but that doesn't mean I can't critique it.

IProinsias: I appreciate that point and agree with some of the game's seriousness. It's that we never get a break from that darker broodiness. Trevor seems to be the only comic relief. Nearly all the peds are quick to create conflict. They rarely say something funny or interesting. Even when flying a chopper in free roam, there's this unsettling music playing. I swear the radio was designed to create ADHD-fueled anxiety or just plain rage. V makes the player feel manipulated where SA felt like it was manipulated by the player. We have this gorgeous environment overshadowed by an intense pessimism. SA was optimistic, hopeful even. It actually felt good moving up in the virtual world.

Sure V tries to satisfy by allowing us to rip off banks that ripped us off in the real world but c'mon. This post-recession reflection of a more jaded time is just uncomfortable. I'm playing to escape that - not have it shoved in my face. And if it's going to be shoved in my face, at least allow me to do something about it. Franklin can toss money at a stripper but not a homeless person? Yet he tells them, "It will get better." Really? How so? Hell, even the main characters talk about their own success with about as much enthusiasm as staring at a wall.

All that money and nothing to spend it on? Really? I see neighborhoods that need some work. I see jobless and homeless people everywhere and they are so damned quiet. The gang silence should speak volumes to players too and yet... *shakes head* R* and players are in a unique position here but holy ball dropped.

I do like V but my second play through will be very different from my first. I'm going to try things my way and completely disregard the forced direction. We'll see if R* included some depth.

Not arguing, just sharing my thoughts is all. ;)

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#80

Posted 24 November 2013 - 01:33 PM

I understand you're not trying to argue, just state an opinion, and that's cool. But this is where we part ways on our opinions of the game: "Sure V tries to satisfy by allowing us to rip off banks that ripped us off in the real world but c'mon. This post-recession reflection of a more jaded time is just uncomfortable. I'm playing to escape that - not have it shoved in my face." I think the point is that instead of a general escape, the game is more of a release. You're not supposed to forget this "post-recession" era, but rather revel in the sticking it to the assholes responsible. Rockstar is trying to incorporate the modern world in a way that still provides an escape (none of us are going to robs the banks foreclosing on houses that they gave unfair mortgages to, even if they deserve it).


Midnightz
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#81

Posted 24 November 2013 - 03:00 PM

I see that, the release aspect. We get it with actions against big pharma, realtors, banks, corrupt gov officials, reality show hosts, social media gurus etc. It pokes fun at the insanity of it all and then offers yoga to help us cope, lol. Namaste. Some of V is brilliantly written.

I just think many residents have something to say and it's odd they say very little, if they speak at all. Hello angry migrant worker, war vet, gardener, maid, construction worker, gang member, homeless person, hobo camper, farmer, and the list goes on. We're given some reality here, a new tone of seriousness, and zero ability to do anything despite our fat bank accounts. How hollow. How then are our 3 characters any different from the idiots they so often judge?

In SA, the peds were silly and they'd say the damnedest things. I remember one female ped that would just walk up to you and scream. Exactly. It was funny because it wasn't serious. When the story called for more seriousness, it went there and the characters had something to say. But exploration after and you'd get that reprieve. You'd literally have two worlds colliding when necessary and an escape when not. This was nice. This is actually more realistic. Sure, there are masses of people pissed off everywhere but not everyone is pissed. Some are too oblivious, too far removed, or too apathetic to pay much attention. Find me some of these peds in V. Even the hikers and fishermen aren't taking a mental break. It's like the entire virtual world is waiting for something to happen. Maybe they are.

That said, when V's main story ends, it feels like we are just getting started. Interesting.

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#82

Posted 25 November 2013 - 11:23 PM

Well all I can say to that is maybe Rockstar's focus was different this time around. Maybe the lack of comedy was some kind of commentary on American life as it is right now, maybe they just wanted to move the game as far away as possible from the toilet humor of GTA4 (Twat Cafe? C'mon).

 

Besides, its not like every game has to incorporate comic relief. I'm playing through Batman: Arkham Origins for the third time, it's relentless in its dark, almost nihilistic atmosphere, I still love it.


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#83

Posted 26 November 2013 - 02:42 AM

Tw@ was first used in GTA III not GTA IV.


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#84

Posted 26 November 2013 - 02:51 AM

Tw@ was first used in GTA III not GTA IV.

 

 

 

...who cares? The point is the games have a history of toilet humor, and GTA 5 is trying (or so it seems) to move away from that. That's all I was saying.


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#85

Posted 26 November 2013 - 03:20 AM

Tw@ was first used in GTA III not GTA IV.

 
 
 
...who cares? The point is the games have a history of toilet humor, and GTA 5 is trying (or so it seems) to move away from that. That's all I was saying.
Not at all, they've just gone a different way about it. Now it's just more up to date comedy.

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#86

Posted 26 November 2013 - 03:39 AM

 

Tw@ was first used in GTA III not GTA IV.

 

 

 

...who cares? The point is the games have a history of toilet humor, and GTA 5 is trying (or so it seems) to move away from that. That's all I was saying.

 

 

You mean like the mouse cursor in the form of a middle finger, Trevor getting drunk in his underwear, wearing dresses etc? Hell the Gruppe 6 innuendo is still used in GTA V. A lot of people think the "69" mission count is a play on the various 69 jokes throughout the series.

 

I don't see how it's trying to move away. It's just using it in different ways. Toilet humour still exists in the game.


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#87

Posted 26 November 2013 - 03:54 AM

I have a sinking feeling that the next GTA game staged in Liberty City is going to be criticized by someone or another for a lack of Eastern European protagonists.

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#88

Posted 26 November 2013 - 03:59 AM

I have a sinking feeling that the next GTA game staged in Liberty City is going to be criticized by someone or another for a lack of Eastern European protagonists.

You act like I'm pissed off because CJ wasn't in GTA V?


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#89

Posted 26 November 2013 - 04:33 AM Edited by halapeno71, 26 November 2013 - 04:40 AM.

You act like I'm pissed off because CJ wasn't in GTA V?

No, but you may as well be.

SA was a period piece. V is a present-day satirical presentation of post-recession America. Do gangs still exist in LA? Sure. Are they as culturally visible as they were in '92? Not hardly. This game is telling a different story, and it's clearly not interested in serving up reheated elements of SA.

And it's all right there in the text, in the subtext, in the commercials for "Pride not Prejudice" (rated PG = pretty much the same as the last game), in various exchanges between Franklin, Lamar, Tonya, and even Jimmy. Every reason R* had for not wanting to unveil a lavishly upholstered SA clone.

I loved SA. I thoroughly enjoyed the gangwars. But I'm also relieved that they departed from them this time around.

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#90

Posted 26 November 2013 - 04:46 AM

 

You act like I'm pissed off because CJ wasn't in GTA V?

No, but you may as well be.

SA was a period piece. V is a present-day satirical presentation of post-recession America. Do gangs still exist in LA? Sure. Are they as culturally visible as they were in '92? Not hardly. This game is telling a different story, and it's clearly not interested in serving up reheated elements of SA.

And it's all right there in the text, in the subtext, in the commercials for "Pride not Prejudice" (rated PG = pretty much the same as the last game), in various exchanges between Franklin, Lamar, Tonya, and even Jimmy. Every reason R* had for not wanting to unveil a lavishly upholstered SA clone.

I loved SA. I thoroughly enjoyed the gangwars. But I'm also relieved that they departed from them this time around.

 

That's not at all what I'm saying. I started this topic for nostalgic forum members and hoped to get their opinions and info. That's all.





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