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(SPOILERS) How would you have written the Johnny Scene

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nobum62
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#1

Posted 16 November 2013 - 02:15 AM Edited by nobum62, 29 December 2013 - 02:34 PM.

ok so, i'm assuming everyone in the TLAD section heated that johnny scene in gta 5 and want to send agent 47 to kill dan houser (if agent 47 existed i'd pay him a million dollars to kill that jackass)....
 
so if you were the writer how would you have written it differently?
 
i guess if i was the writer....
 
it would start out with trevor hearing micheal's alive on the news (he won't be f*cking ashley though). then trevor walks out of his trailer and yells at wade to find a guy named "micheal townley". meanwhile, johnny is across the street fixing his hexer or whatever, and he tells trevor to stop yelling and chill the f*ck out. trevor does not offer a hug to johnny to try to kill him but instead just yells, "F*CK OFF". then he says to ron and wade that they must speak to the belated AOD gang who have been f*cking his business (they were stealing drugs from him).
 
so they drive to the place but instead of seeing terry and clay they see a couple of random AOD bikers. the bikers go to their vehicles and drive to their hideout. trevor must follow the bikers to their destination without being detected. once trevor is there, he rampages all the AOD bikers (or stealthily sneaks around the AOD if the player wishes). trevor finds the drugs the AOD stole from him, takes them and goes back to the truck and drives away. the player passes the mission
 
also, during some points of the game johnny will help you kill the AOD and you can even have him as a crew member.
 
i'm not sure how i will write johnny's story though. at the end of TLAD he said he'll try to cut his ties with the lost so..... i guess i'll just make him a bank robber who's still a bike enthusiast
 
also, i will make it so that trevor does not kill/hurt people for no god damn reason. i will make it so that during the scene with floyd and debra, debra is extremely pissed at floyd for bringing his "weird friend" so debra shoots floyd, trevor gets extremely angry and avenges floyd by stabbing debra with the knife he took from floyd.... luckily, floyd survives the shot
 
 
 
i hope you guys thought mine was good, and if you didn't..... at least we can agree that i'm still a better writer that whatever idiot wrote that scene  :D
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Peachrocks
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#2

Posted 16 November 2013 - 09:06 AM Edited by Peachrocks, 16 November 2013 - 09:08 AM.

I wouldn't pay someone to bump off Dan Houser. I would like an explanation of sorts as to why he is such a brilliant writer 99% of the time then has brain farts like this and any of the possible endings in gta V.

 

I... don't know how I'd write it. I know I've said much on the matter but I really don't know how I'd write it mostly because my rewrite of the scene would likely change Trevor's character dramatically as to not make him be a calculated sadist while still keeping the aspects of the character people like which admittedly is really hard to do while creating a story. It's why I just think Trevor doesn't function as a protagonist, an idea? Maybe, like giving out missions in GTA Online and as a side character that you do missions with? For sure, but as a protagonist with a background and story? I don't think so. GTA V's entire story suffers because of this crisis.

 

It is abundantly clear most Trevor fans couldn't understand our reasons in that monster thread and probably barely read any of it.

 

As I've said before though, even if you were TRYING to make that scene bad you'd have to try pretty hard to beat what they put into that mess. Perhaps the challenge should be write something worse...

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#3

Posted 16 November 2013 - 09:21 AM

Trevor fanboys suck
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nobum62
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#4

Posted 17 November 2013 - 05:14 AM

of course i don't want to send a hitman to ice dan! that's just silly, i don't want him dead.

i just want to abduct his family, that's all.  :devil:

 

seriously though, it's ok to change trevor's character. i did it for my story i made. and it's fine if you don't really think it's good, anything is better than the scene we have now


Peachrocks
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#5

Posted 17 November 2013 - 05:41 AM Edited by Peachrocks, 17 November 2013 - 05:43 AM.

I... still don't know.

 

I mean whether Johnny should die or not, whether Ashley should be involved. There's so many factors about what happened in that scene that struck a negative reaction with people it's hard to know what should be included and what should be left out because you need some basis to start with.

 

Don't get me wrong, I love hypothetical what if's and in due time, you'll get a big chunk of one regarding Jim's fate (since Rockstar are almost certainly not going to go there) and something for all to chip in with  but on this... I don't know.

 

If Johnny has to die, it should be because he's a business rival to Trevor rather than because he told Trevor not to screw Ashley. Make it about business and money which is the usual motivation for people to kill one another in this plot. Have some of the Lost attack Trevor's stuff first to make him the defender rather than the aggressor then while Trevor is counterattacking, have him get involved in a fire fight with Johnny.

 

After that though it's more complicated because it has to resolve. It resolves in the main plot with serious overkill from Trevor again for literally no reason. I would have Clay and Terry agree to a uneasy ceasefire with Trevor Phillips Industries that works in his favor while the Lost pursue other business ventures so they aren't sinking resources into Trevor's stuff but that would go against Trevor's character who doesn't have the term peaceful resolution in his dictionary regardless of how much he'd benefit.

 

If Johnny doesn't have to die the possibilities are endless.


Grievous
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#6

Posted 17 November 2013 - 02:08 PM

If Johnny has to die, it should be because he's a business rival to Trevor rather than because he told Trevor not to screw Ashley. Make it about business and money which is the usual motivation for people to kill one another in this plot. Have some of the Lost attack Trevor's stuff first to make him the defender rather than the aggressor then while Trevor is counterattacking, have him get involved in a fire fight with Johnny.

But that would have been rather generic wouldn't it?

 

"This is my sand castle, don't touch it!"

"This is MY SANDBOX! Now scram!"

"No! Don't make me hit you with my shovel!"

"I'll BURY YOU WITH YOUR SHOVEL!!"

"*gets buried alive*"

"Now where's my trophy/achievement for my successful gold medal?!"

 

For all we know, Rockstar may have been actively looking at what we've been saying for the past couple of months, and once that alien/zombie/nonsense dlc arrives, we might just have to end up killing Johnny a second time, this time in a quick time event during an earthquake, making good use of the RAGE engine.

 

Plus, to argue that Johnny dies in a turf war facing Trevor ... i'm not sure most of you would sit well on that idea either.

We would in turn start to argue that it's unthinkable for Johnny to loose and then complain that the game didn't included his trusty sawn-off and armsel striker that used to give him the significant upper edge.

 

Seeing Johnny dying as meth head while pursuing this white knight stance he repeatedly shied away from is fitting.

It would especially please the people who interpreted Lost and Damned as a modern re-telling of Peter Pan and how it was all about learning to 'grow up'. In the end, Johnny never did learn to grow up.

 

Still ... I don't know why exactly Rockstar found it necessary to re-emphasize it. 


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#7

Posted 17 November 2013 - 02:27 PM Edited by Peachrocks, 17 November 2013 - 02:28 PM.

It would have to be done well but you raise a solid point. This is why I was reluctant to speak on it because I STILL don't know how to go about it if Johnny had to die. Accidental friendly fire? A big explosion in which he was trying to help others escape in classic white knight style that is full of cheese? I don't know...

 

If it went turf war would people sit well with Johnny losing? Especially if they kept the kiddie pool depth to Trevor's character when put next to Johnny. I think it'd be easier to swallow then how it really went down but they never should have brought him back at all if their only purpose to do so was to kill him. It never was going to end well.

 

Besides most of all, if Trevor looks like the wronged party, it makes him killing off some of the Lost and Johnny far more justified.

 

I'm not saying I'm a brilliant writer I think I'm so so at best but to call generic on it would be calling 95-99% of the game generic :D.


universetwisters
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#8

Posted 17 November 2013 - 09:12 PM

Trevor fanboys suck

Johnny fanboys suck.

 

I agree with you, Johnny was the best of IV's characters and one of my favorites, but you gotta move on. Johnny's dead now. And even if it wasn't the meth that killed him, he'd still be dead regardless in the future. So calm your tits, amigos. Johnny may be dead, but you can't kill the soul.


Grievous
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#9

Posted 18 November 2013 - 12:19 AM

 

Johnny may be dead, but you can't kill the soul.

 

This was essentially part of my original reasoning that there's a greater joy to be had in replaying Lost and Damned today and to re-experience the events under this post-GTAV new angle, rather than to sulk about 'how it would have gone out differently'. 

 

Not that it's wrong to think of alternatives ... well , I don't know ...

 

...

 

Does anyone remember that Angel of Death DLC I proposed months ago ? ...

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nobum62
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#10

Posted 18 November 2013 - 12:57 AM

 

Trevor fanboys suck

Johnny fanboys suck.

 

I agree with you, Johnny was the best of IV's characters and one of my favorites, but you gotta move on. Johnny's dead now. And even if it wasn't the meth that killed him, he'd still be dead regardless in the future. So calm your tits, amigos. Johnny may be dead, but you can't kill the soul.

 

probably gonna keep talking about johnny's death (and other reasons why V sucked) because i love discussions

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universetwisters
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#11

Posted 18 November 2013 - 03:21 AM

 

 

Trevor fanboys suck

Johnny fanboys suck.

 

I agree with you, Johnny was the best of IV's characters and one of my favorites, but you gotta move on. Johnny's dead now. And even if it wasn't the meth that killed him, he'd still be dead regardless in the future. So calm your tits, amigos. Johnny may be dead, but you can't kill the soul.

 

probably gonna keep talking about johnny's death (and other reasons why V sucked) because i love discussions

 

I'm not telling you not to stop talking about it, I'm just saying what I think of the whole "TREVOR SUX CUZ HE KILZ JOHNNY" debacle. Johnny was my favorite out of all IV's protagonists, but you gotta keep in mind that Johnny's human, and he isn't immortal. Neither is Niko, Luis, or anybody else. They're all bound to die one way or another.

 

If it makes you feel any better, Johnny respawned at the hospital after being killed.

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#12

Posted 18 November 2013 - 05:28 AM

Yeah, the fact he killed him is the knee jerk reaction to hate him but as the monster thread describes, it's not among the top reasons I dislike Trevor. It doesn't help but I put it more against Rockstar than Trevor's character for writing Johnny in that way in the first place.

 

Yeah, he's human, it could have happened, he cares too much and rationally knows Ashley is bad for him but instinctively cares for her anyway which ultimately resulted in his death but it's not satisfying or good writing for a character some strongly identified with which is really the end result of the 'knee jerk' reaction and Trevor in a lot of people's minds pays the price for this which is why I made it abundantly clear that's not why I dislike him.

 

It all comes back down to why did Rockstar build up such great characters only to be torn down in such a stupid fashion?

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Elscoumouno95
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#13

Posted 18 November 2013 - 01:23 PM

For me Terry and Clay can be killed like that because thats the death of all Johnny's friend.

But Johnny's death is just bad, if I were Rockstar I just made an easter egg shows his death.

We can see AOD in GTA V are dead so they could put an article of Johnny assassinated by a rampage against him done by last AOD veterans because Johnny destroys all AOD chapter.

It was a bad idea to make Johnny a pussy and killed him bi TREVOR !

Trevor is a good character because he is funny but it's not a real character, it's like saint row main character come in GTA World and kill every one with his dubstep gun...


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#14

Posted 18 November 2013 - 11:49 PM


i hope you guys thought mine was good, and if you didn't..... at least we can agree that i'm still a better writer that whatever idiot wrote that scene  :D

No it wasn't. You idiot. I loved Johnny, I loved TLAD, in fact I'm playing it right now, with  the pause menu music in the background. But god child let it go. His death done what it needed. It was brutal and surpising. It showed us how crazy Trevor was, I hated him at first because of that, but came to love him because of his sense of humor. Johnny was great but his story is over. Time to grow up.


nobum62
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#15

Posted 19 November 2013 - 01:48 AM Edited by nobum62, 19 November 2013 - 01:51 AM.

 


i hope you guys thought mine was good, and if you didn't..... at least we can agree that i'm still a better writer that whatever idiot wrote that scene  :D

No it wasn't. You idiot. I loved Johnny, I loved TLAD, in fact I'm playing it right now, with  the pause menu music in the background. But god child let it go. His death done what it needed. It was brutal and surpising. It showed us how crazy Trevor was, I hated him at first because of that, but came to love him because of his sense of humor. Johnny was great but his story is over. Time to grow up.

 

bahahahahahahaha that's hilarious.

 

at the end of TLAD the player can call angus and johnny will say:
 
"i'll try to cut my ties with the lost."
"i finally got ashley out of my head. she has that need to f*ck up everything around her"
 
the player can also call ashley. ashley will ask johnny for forty dollars and johnny will say:
"you can kill yourself on your own ash."
 
he knows it is to pay off her debts or to buy drugs.
 
johnny was also an ex-addict and HATED drugs, especially after seeing what it has done to ashley.
 
 
 
5 years later, we see johnny as a meth addict still in the lost going "HURR DURR WHY U F*CKING ASHLEY WAAAAAAA"
 
 
f*ck you cockstar for making johnny's character inconsistant. F*CK YOU.
 
that would be like luis saying "OYE, MEAT EATERS AND PET OWNERS ARE F*CKING SATANISTS BRO" and ditches tony to become president of PETA. then 5 years later we see luis in a cutscene, then he falls down the stairs and breaks his neck within one minute. that would be out of character and luis wouldn't die so easily.
 
the scene didn't make trevor a badass, all it did was make johnny a pussy

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#16

Posted 19 November 2013 - 01:54 AM

you're right that i need to let go of it though. i'll get over it eventually


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#17

Posted 19 November 2013 - 07:58 AM

I would have it play out something like this. As a pretty lousy writer, I can't really think of a decent set-up for this scenario, but here it is.

 

A firefight erupts, with Trevor on one side and Johnny, Terry, and Clay on the other. The shootout ends with Terry and Clay dead, and Johnny severely wounded.

 

Trevor stands over Johnny with a smirk on his face and his pistol pointed at Johnny's head for the final shot. Breathing heavily, Johnny looks Trevor dead in the eye, unblinking, and bitterly tells him to go ahead and do it. The last of his brothers are gone; he's got nothing left to lose.

 

Trevor is caught by surprise. He's used to killing people in the heat of the moment, or when they're begging for their lives. It's rare for him to see someone so apathetic, if not vaguely hopeful, about their own death. After a moment's hesitation, he pulls the trigger.

 

For a few seconds, Trevor continues looking at Johnny's body, a look of vague disquiet on his face. It's one of the few times he's ever felt disturbed, however slightly, after killing someone. He growls in frustration and shakes his head before turning around and storming away. "f*cking moron," he mutters.

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#18

Posted 19 November 2013 - 11:22 AM Edited by B Dawg, 19 November 2013 - 11:27 AM.

I would have it play out something like this. As a pretty lousy writer, I can't really think of a decent set-up for this scenario, but here it is.

 

A firefight erupts, with Trevor on one side and Johnny, Terry, and Clay on the other. The shootout ends with Terry and Clay dead, and Johnny severely wounded.

 

Trevor stands over Johnny with a smirk on his face and his pistol pointed at Johnny's head for the final shot. Breathing heavily, Johnny looks Trevor dead in the eye, unblinking, and bitterly tells him to go ahead and do it. The last of his brothers are gone; he's got nothing left to lose.

 

Trevor is caught by surprise. He's used to killing people in the heat of the moment, or when they're begging for their lives. It's rare for him to see someone so apathetic, if not vaguely hopeful, about their own death. After a moment's hesitation, he pulls the trigger.

 

For a few seconds, Trevor continues looking at Johnny's body, a look of vague disquiet on his face. It's one of the few times he's ever felt disturbed, however slightly, after killing someone. He growls in frustration and shakes his head before turning around and storming away. "f*cking moron," he mutters.

Make sure it's also a hard boss fight (something similar to Big Smoke) with no auto-aim allowed :devil:

 

They take a crap ton of bullets and you have to use a lot of cover to use health regen to your advantage.

 

Even San Andreas had annoying missions in the beginning, let's bring back tradition!

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#19

Posted 20 November 2013 - 01:34 PM

Now that I think about it, wouldn't have Trevor's encounters with the Lost worked out better as a string of secret Strangers & Freaks missions?

One that either begins after the completion of a few random encounters, entering a specific and unmarked area of the map, or an internet site where Lost has gone merchandising, and Trevor just wanted a shiny leather jacket at first, but then the Lost had an attitude problem with him, and despite proving through a series of challenge that Trevor 'is' legitimately worthy of being in a biker gang, cultural and ethical differences still causes a schism between the two sides.

And since Trevor doesn't take rejection well ... ... well, it was going to be inevitable. Trevor was going to 'have' his leather jacket. 

 

The missions would have been to Trevor what the Epsilon program was to Michael.

 

Although that still wouldn't solve the fact that Franklin has such poor side missions content compare to the other two.

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#20

Posted 20 November 2013 - 01:35 PM

I would've completely scrapped it off.

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#21

Posted 20 November 2013 - 01:41 PM

Some people are yelling enough as it is that GTA V lacks content, and you wish to remove even more?

 

Well you've got to replace it with something else!


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#22

Posted 25 December 2013 - 02:58 AM

Why do all these people care so much about Johnny?

Where's the love for Terry and Clay?


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#23

Posted 28 December 2013 - 04:43 PM

Why do all these people care so much about Johnny?
Where's the love for Terry and Clay?


apparently R* cared about these people so little that they turned them into nameless mooks you have to kill
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#24

Posted 28 December 2013 - 05:12 PM

I know this has been here over a month but other then the cross over characters-- this is a GTA 5 story discussion--

 

Moved to GTA 5 (general section) from TLAD section


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#25

Posted 29 December 2013 - 04:03 PM

I think the writing of Johnny in GTA V was consistent.

He was unable to let go of Ashley, so he slipped back into the drugs, as Ashley probably hooked him on crack.

If i were Johnny, i'll send her to rehab as last chance. But weren't she already there?

Also, how can you deal drugs, if you're own your best customer? I don't even want to figure how you lead a hardcore organisation like Lost MC while on crack. Probably bad.

 

As much as Johnny, Clay, Terry grew onto my heart, when i played TLAD (i played it after GTA V. "Gosh, these people are dead."), they aren't the same as they used to be. Something destroyed, rotted them away, all the way between LC and Westcoast.

Trevor was only the final period in their story.

 

He should have asked something like "what the hell happened to you, Johnny? All tough biker turned in a weeping pussy? I mean, damn!"

Crack happened.

 

Also, there is a random event mission, where you drive a person who can tell you something about what happened to the Lost.

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#26

Posted 29 December 2013 - 04:30 PM

I would have kept Johnny's death the same, but I would have saved Terry's and Clay's death for later on. I feel like the Lost should have taken the spot of the O'Neil brothers in the story. 


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#27

Posted 29 December 2013 - 04:55 PM

I, too, would have liked some AOD involvement but olny recently learned that Johnny not only wiped out the LC chapter but the aod nationwide back in 2008.

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#28

Posted 29 December 2013 - 05:00 PM

I'd make Trevor rape him instead of Ashley

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#29

Posted 29 December 2013 - 05:13 PM

Johnny willingly accepts Trevor's invitation to f*ck and takes off his pants right in front of everyone.

 

Then Trevor, Johnny and Ashley lived happily ever after as the most f*cked up love triangle on earth. The End. 

 

Sound good?

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#30

Posted 29 December 2013 - 05:22 PM

Johnny and Trevor are rivals and fight for control of meth trafficking. Trevor gets mad once members of the lost steal Trevors meth supplies. He sees Johnny and chases him on a bike. Once you get to an isolated place, you can't see Johnny anymore. But you can hear his voice. He tells Trevor to make peace and share the whole area among themselves. Trevor agrees, Johnny comes close to Trevor. Trevor like he is, gets dramatic and hugs Johnny while Johnny tries to resist...and then stabs him to death...





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