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Heists will suck because Rockstar can't even get missions right.

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ASDF0716
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#1

Posted 09 November 2013 - 03:25 PM Edited by ASDF0716, 09 November 2013 - 07:39 PM.

Someone needs to teach game developers that infinitely spawning enemies until you reach objective "X" doesn't make things challenging- just sloppy and frustrating.

If I am speeding down the highway with an SUV filled with Merryweather guys (that can hit me from a half mile away with a sub machine gun, btw) and once he gets close enough, I manage to

A.) not crash

and

B.) sticky bomb his SUV while still not crashing and getting far enough away to not blow myself up before detonating...

I should be rewarded with at least some time of not hassled driving.

The game should NOT immediately spawn another Merryweather SUV directly in front of me that immediately gets a headshot.

Where did he even come from? Is this the f*cking Matrix?

What would that SUV have done had I NOT blown up the first one? Driven by?!

"Oh- looks like Frank has got the guy that just stole the truck... let's go get ice cream."

I also hate that you can LITERALLY watch guys spawn in front if you- they didn't even make it so they run in from somewhere else. Talk about immersion breaking.

Sloppy.

Which brings me to my final point:

For a professional mercenary organization, Merryweather has the sh*ttiest crisis response plans I've ever seen.

If you are paid to guard something... a truck... a person... whatever... you set up your initial, layered security with a QRF (quick reaction force) stationed somewhere nearby. The size of both the security force and the QRF being dependent upon a.) the value of the object being guarded and b.) the likelihood of an entity initiating contact (in Risk Assessment terms, this is calculated by what is called a Threat and Vulnerability Assassment- which- at the basic level calculates the chance that 1.) an entity intends to initiate some form of unwanted event with 2.) does this entity have the capability to affect that unwanted event against your target and 3.) are they present in the geographic area? Intent, capability, presence- all three criteria must be met for there to be risk.)

As soon as an entity (truck, car, helicopter... sea monster, etc...) makes contact with your first layer of security, the QRF begins to move.

It responds at once. Together. Not a truck at a time.

Rockstar should have scripted some of the missions out a bit more- they could have been mini-heists. Once you initiate contact with your objective, a QRF (after an appropriate amount of time) arrives on scene with their helicopter and five or six trucks- they link up with whatever is left if the initial security. After that, either they kill you, or you kill them.

Challenging, without being ridiculous
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iEatzNiggletz
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#2

Posted 09 November 2013 - 03:31 PM

Dude i absolutely agree with you. I freaking hate how these dudes RANDOMLY spawn like 10-15 feet away from you. Apparently it is the Matrix because these guys come out of f*cking no where and snipe me with their SMG. Like seriously rockstar? You seriously HALF-ASSED the online component for GTA.. worse than half-ass.. 

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malcolmfunktion
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#3

Posted 09 November 2013 - 03:36 PM

IT'S AN AGENT!!

Velociraptorius
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#4

Posted 09 November 2013 - 03:36 PM

Yup. Gotta agree, the spawns are f*cked up. If I'm holding my position in cover, which I specefically chose so as to have all enemies in front of me, after I kill some of them the new dudes should NOT spawn in perfect flanking positions where they immediately have a line of sight at me. That's not challenging, it's just cheap. There are ways to force a player out of cover or otherwise make him move without the ai resolving to cheating.

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#5

Posted 09 November 2013 - 03:37 PM

OP needs to lean how to shoot and drive..:p


Alec Skorpio
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#6

Posted 09 November 2013 - 03:40 PM

One mission kind of does have an decently set up QRF.  It's the one where you have to take out an informant on Fort Zancudo.

Once you make contact, two fighter jets take off from Trevors airfield to intercept and protect the Titan the informant is on.  The mission is a lot easier if you know this ahead of time, go to the airfield and destory/steal the fighter jets from the team. 

 

So it's not like they COULDN'T have done this more, since they used the basic idea in this mission.

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ASDF0716
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#7

Posted 09 November 2013 - 03:58 PM Edited by ASDF0716, 09 November 2013 - 07:29 PM.

Agreed- which is where they dropped the ball with the mini heist thing...

In both examples, anyone that is serious about going up against a seasoned, professional security apparatus would never just wade in and hope for the best...

It requires planning... you have to know that when I do "A", security will do "B".

THEN, part of your mission planning becomes: a.) plan in some way to absorb the effects of a QRF or b.) plan in some way to neutralize the QRF...

In two completely basic examples: absorbing the effects of a QRF would be in the single player game where they know from preplanning that they have four minutes until the cops show up once they rob the bank and plan for that by dressing in heavy armor and carrying miniguns.

Neutralizing the QRF- as you pointed out- is driving to the airfield and destroying the response aircraft prior to assaulting the (real) objective.

Muse182
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#8

Posted 09 November 2013 - 04:15 PM Edited by Muse182, 09 November 2013 - 04:16 PM.

I hate the infinite spawning on Base Invaders. Especially when people don't understand it and they just sit in the one spot trying to clear their path. I got so tired of it, I just end up driving their now and straight into the hangar. The soldiers in the hangar don't respawn so that's good but I hate the two outside, it doesn't even give you 10 seconds to move up.


Jokimoto
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#9

Posted 09 November 2013 - 04:22 PM

What I'm expecting from Heists are for them to be high-risk, low-reward affairs. Planning and preparation will cost around 100k. There will be 3 or 4 or 5 tedious and repetitve tasks to complete leading up to it. The final job itself will be a mind-numbingly painful affair at the end of which the lowest level, lowest skilled guy on the team will take off with the money. 

 

Alternatively, if someone doesn't take off, we all get to split 50k. Between the 8 of us.  Then we'll get to wait a full game week, "laying low", basking in our reward and clinking cans of Sprunk together in celebration.

 

Also they'll be glitched and bugged and exploited Day One. Some people will get no pay plus a Bad Sport warning. Other people will have their existing bank accounts doubled. One lucky guy will have his gun bugged so that all he can do is shoot himself in the face. Rockstar will immediately set to work on a "fix".

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Zwenkwiel
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#10

Posted 09 November 2013 - 04:25 PM

I like it
Always dissapointed when no1 gives chase, makes the drives really boring

Hootytooty
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#11

Posted 09 November 2013 - 04:29 PM

Always love getting hit with a shotgun from someone who's out of range of my SMG.

 

Or when you're driving and someone in a car, so far away it's no more than a dot on the horizon, scores a headshot on you.


ASDF0716
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#12

Posted 09 November 2013 - 04:33 PM Edited by ASDF0716, 09 November 2013 - 06:28 PM.

I like it
Always dissapointed when no1 gives chase, makes the drives really boring

I'm not even saying you can't have car chases- I just hate the randomness of them.

In fact, I mean just the opposite- in the example I gave above- in certain circumstances, a valid part of your plan to absorb the effects of a QRF could be as easy as "outrun them." Totally reasonable, but, in that instance, again, when Rockstar does things like instantly spawning enemies because you blew the last one up, it makes me roll my eyes.

Velociraptorius
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#13

Posted 09 November 2013 - 04:41 PM

It's not much of a chase if they spawn in front of you. They should have set spawns on the pre determined gps route, spawn as you pass them and then proceed to chase you. That's "chasing". Spawning in front of me while driving full speed in the opposite direction and ramming me head on is not a chase
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tymaster50
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#14

Posted 09 November 2013 - 04:56 PM

I hate the infinite spawning on Base Invaders. Especially when people don't understand it and they just sit in the one spot trying to clear their path. I got so tired of it, I just end up driving their now and straight into the hangar. The soldiers in the hangar don't respawn so that's good but I hate the two outside, it doesn't even give you 10 seconds to move up.

I'm guilty of killing the enemies over and over. I try to break through long enough that i don't get shot in the back but they just keep respawning lol


ElderTyrant
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#15

Posted 09 November 2013 - 05:09 PM

This is GTA, everything spawns close to you.

Freedom or linear scripting...can you people please decide what you want from R*
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SKaREO
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#16

Posted 09 November 2013 - 05:19 PM

I'm pretty sure this is still a video game and not a military simulator. Take your meds OP.


ASDF0716
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#17

Posted 09 November 2013 - 05:30 PM Edited by ASDF0716, 09 November 2013 - 05:49 PM.

I'm pretty sure this is still a video game and not a military simulator. Take your meds OP.

You say that, and, you have every right to your opinion, but, I guarantee that if they had DONE the things that are being talked about, people would be enjoying the missions more instead if all the complaining.

Also, I don't take medication.

AND- as someone above pointed out, it's not like they didn't (occasionally) already (sort of) go there (in principal), albeit in a half-assed fashion.

brooklyn718
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#18

Posted 09 November 2013 - 05:33 PM

Agree OP

adamnightmare
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#19

Posted 09 November 2013 - 05:35 PM

so much complaining


ASDF0716
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#20

Posted 09 November 2013 - 06:06 PM Edited by ASDF0716, 09 November 2013 - 11:30 PM.

Blergety

ASDF0716
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#21

Posted 09 November 2013 - 11:31 PM Edited by ASDF0716, 09 November 2013 - 11:48 PM.

This is GTA, everything spawns close to you.

Freedom or linear scripting...can you people please decide what you want from R*

Wouldn't it be possible to have both? I'm not saying every single mission needs to be scripted- most (if not all) of Gerald's, Lamar's and Simeon's missions are fine- and the randomness reflects the fact that you are going against untrained people- like gangs...

My problem comes when it's a hardened target- like a professional mercenary group or a no sh*t military installation. It seems like instead if scripting their reactions to be more realistic and intelligent, the ONLY thing Rockstar could think of to make it harder was infinite spawns right on top of you- that's not fun.

It's bullsh*t that any semblance of a plan is impossible because every time I kill someone, a new guy immediately spawns right on top of me.

As a level designer, I imagine (or at least would hope) that your job is to balance difficulty with feasibility. If you are designing a level and you honestly believe that when the player conducts "x" action, the result should be that you spawn 50 guys, 3 helicopters and a tank, that's fine... As long as you believe there is a way for the player to successfully resolve such a situation.

The player then has the option to adjust his plans:

A.) bring more people
B.) bring heavier weapons
C.) other

Without a viable exit strategy, most players will stop playing the mission- at which point you have failed as a level designer.

On the complete opposite end if the spectrum when horrible mission layout and bad AI allow the player to make it through the obstacles you designed and you resort to spamming helicopters and guys and tanks ad nauseum, to me, you have equally failed- or at least taken the easy way out- which is what we have here... (see paragraph 2).

It reminds me of a DM I used to play with that would deliberately design "no win" situations- or situations that only had one solution that was completely hidden and obscure to the PCs.

Imagination, skill, luck and initiative weren't rewarded, because they didn't fit how the DM felt the story should go.

You know what happened? People stopped going to his games.

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#22

Posted 10 November 2013 - 12:09 AM

This is my first GTA game. (I know I know bring the hate). What about this game resembles realism? The sky and lighting affects maybe. GTA is fun because it's an absurd, cartoonish parody of modern american life through a lens of pop culture.

 

As for video game design: I don't think Rockstar wanted to make the next Halo game. I'm referring to Bungie's groundbreaking AI implemented in the first Halo.  I'm not talking about Mutiplayer spawning.

 

Heists will be awesome because it adds another layer fun to an already awesome game. And you will play it until your ass goes numb. 


gta5SA
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#23

Posted 22 February 2014 - 04:11 PM

OP needs to lean how to shoot and drive.. :p

its called press a buttom and and move your analog stick numbskull, this game is f*cking stupid with all these spawn kills, low cash payout, copy and pasted missions etc


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#24

Posted 22 February 2014 - 04:24 PM

I think I read 2 paragraphs but I agree with you OP, cockstar messed up the AI and sh*t.





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