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The Identity Crisis: The Problems with V's story.

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Maggot899
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#31

Posted 06 November 2013 - 09:55 PM

 

What is this game's theme?

 

Addiction, whether to a drug, a way of life, or a kind of behaviour.

 

Don't forget criticizing the way the government operates. This game was a huge commentary on how America's government sucks, and you get addicted to lifestyle choices.

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#32

Posted 06 November 2013 - 10:16 PM

I agree with you on all points. The beginning was good, but when Trevor stepped in it just felt too rushed. I mean when Trevor went into Michael's house? How the f*ck did he even find him?? How did he know he lived there?? He just appeared out of nowhere. Trevor is just a terrible protagonist. He would fit more as a side-character... But the fact that most fanboys love Trevor just makes me worry about the future of GTA's characters. Do us a favor Rockstar stop trying to please fans too much, go your own way like you were going with IV.

 
He knew where Michael lived because he sent Wade to find out where Michael was. Wade found out where a Michael De Santa lived and he matched the description. That's why Trevor went to Los Santos. Do you really expect us to know exactly how Wade found out Michael's address? I'll use GTA IV as an example, since you hold it up high:
 
How the f*ck did UL Paper find Darko? All of a sudden they just have him! It's ridiculous and makes Niko's whole search pointless. 
 
 
Off-screen stuff happens off-screen. ;)

Over all, I realize you like Trevor and I respect your responses and new perceptions...

But U.L. Paper is a government agent, Wade is literally a retarded hillbilly :p
I never needed an explanation how they found Michael, but put that in your logical explanation and smoke it!
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#33

Posted 06 November 2013 - 10:32 PM

I'd say, it's finally nice to hear well composed opinions, which you present as opinions. But I'd dare to completely disagree with you, I mean understand, story and characters are solely opinion based things, but I feel like "countering" your arguments, because I find that you don't go much into depths of characters and express this in a shallow way.
                                           --------------------------------------------------------------------

Franklin: What started grinding me on your take on Franklin, why would he change after moving to Vinewood hills? He's the same person, he's not going to suddenly dress in expensive suits and talk in a posh English accent only because he moved somewhere else and got himself some money. He obviously wanted to make something out of himself, as you quoted get "paper and not get killed", surely he meant, that the risk was too high in gang-banging, especially if it doesn't pay well, so he joined up with professional criminals to earn some of that cash.

Michael: Again your take on him seems very shallow and misunderstood FOR ME. In the game Michael is not particularly rich, and doesn't have a legal day-time job, because the first heist he did was to 

Spoiler
, so he's not rich in the beginning, but after paying, he went off to do more heists, and if you pay attention, you can clearly see he did not return to his career to earn more money, rather, he is plainly addicted to chaos, to the crime rush, even his wife and kids point that out constantly.

Trevor: I don't know why you figured or wanted him to be like Dexter, one of those well composed criminals, because in the interviews and trailers, we all clearly saw he was intended to be a psychopath, not a serial killer living a double life, but full time psychopath and I think the writers of the game, clearly express that. Trevor, he doesn't make sense at all, and that is the point, that's why we see him dressed in a dress, or lying naked and drunk on a railroad train, or waking up next to Floyd, the game, the writers wanted to express that, to convey his non-sensiness, and form my standpoint they did very well. After all, Trevor's daddy was not nice to him. The part where he killed 
Spoiler
, I don't think it was intended to be of any sort of moral, it's not a cartoon for children where the main characters go through some kind of experience, to which at the end there is always a moral to be learned, this is a mature story, and the reason why they chose 
Spoiler
for this, is clearly for the "wow factor", to bring up some feelings to players, who played the DLC of IV, and by reading your example, they succeeded, Trevor was, at points, intended to make you feel morally disgusted, he's violent, aggressive, psychotic, he doesn't make sense, he's spontaneous, he's not particularly realistic, but obviously not intended to be, he's intended to be a GTA character, and bloody hell, he is.

Your very personal note, you know life is life, and that should say it all, people get into all sorts trouble and do stupid things so why Johnny can't be a human, like we all are, and fall to his weaknesses, because clearly he loved Ashley, we saw it playing TLaD, why after moving somewhere west, couldn't he get back together with her.

The story of GTAIV and Episodes From Liberty City, was not so much intertwined, the story only crossed each other's path rarely and often indirectly, these were different stories with different characters and different agendas. On the other hand, GTAV story was intertwined, the characters worked together, not often by choice, but by circumstance and personal agenda. Sure it would've created an interesting dynamic, that main characters would've played against each other before having met ~ before knowing each other, would've created an interesting dynamic if it had more of that, but IT DID HAVE, in the beginning playing as Franklin you do have to f*ck with Michael a little bit, which did created interesting dynamic, so, it might've not worked out so well if they overused that too much. After all the story and personal interests aligned them. I mean Rockstar could've done more separate stories of each of the characters, but they didn't because they wanted them to work together. Know the switching mechanic, it didn't provide as much replayability as we all thought it would, reading those interviews and previews, and there isn't too much incentive, oftenly to switch, unless made by the game, but this thing sort of goes down to personal preference, immersion to characters, to use each, if not by essential means, but for the sake of immersion, it's a very nice touch, nicely done too.
                       ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Why does each story has to have a main antagonist, you complained about the game using some cliche, but this is the cliheist cliche of them all, West they pushed him of the cliff, to put an end to a problem/threat he was posing, after all he owned half of a private army.

Madrazo, now why Michael is afraid of him, well maybe because he wants to live, Michael is not Mafioso, he is a retired bank robber, whilst Madrazo IS a mafioso. I understand why Madrazo forgave Trevor, after all, Trevor is insane, psychotic dude, who goes against anyone who stands in his way, or not, sometimes Trevor doesn't like somebody and he f*cks them up, now Madrazo has no reason to fear Michael, a retired robber, but Trevor, he's unpredictable and he's got guns, he's a known violent psychopath who deals drugs.

Also, the relationship between Trevor and Madrazo's wife, I don't think it was supposed to be funny at all, rather, it seemed, it was writers way to show that Trevor, is not all hatred and psychopath, that there is some "human being" left in there, that he found some sort of sweet connection with another human being, and it not being some cheap sleazy stripper, or cokehead. It was a nice touch, and brought Trevor's deeper side to light, well that and the part where he didn't let Wade to see his cousin, after Trevor uh "got strawberry jam" all over himself. 

And well, the reason why Trevor gave her back, I suppose he knew that this wouldn't last long anyway, especially Madrazo's men after him. 


All what was involved in ending C, was not about revenge of sorts against the "bad guys" it seemed more like a "let's get rid off them, because they will never release our leash", rather than "Kill them because they did us wrong".

                 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Supporting Characters

I liked the supporting characters, I liked Lester, he was an interesting take on a geek/bank robber assistant or brains, I absolutely loved Michael's family, and I agree, that there could've been much more "family based" missions. The therapist, gave a deeper insight to Michael's own thoughts which was real cool. Also, it appears that Michael's family was broken, he wanted to fix it, and he did, but as we all know people don't change over night, and also the game is a product of a lot of work, so the random lines when you meet family members, after uniting the family mission, probably would've still been the same. But have you tried hanging out with family members as Michael, there is usually a lot of cool dialog and insight, un-escalated by unusual events that happen in missions, where everyone panics, or gets angry. Also I'm pretty certain there is a lot of extra dialog in hanging out parts of the game, that follows missions and past events, so maybe there is some sort of epiphany with the family. Yeah Lamar was cool, stubborn blind gangsta dude, who was not too bright and always gets into trouble.


I do kind of agree with you on, that there should have been more of countryside missions, I mean there are random events, but not too many of them, so there is no incentive to go there, apart from simple exploration, which I personally enjoy. 

Now weapons of V, I partly agree, with Trevor, or at least in Sandy Shores and surrounding areas there could've been more "poor" weapons, whilst in the city shops more sophisticated. But the part that I do not agree on is, the attachments are optional, and there are low quality guns even armor.

             ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I mean for God's sake mate, how the f*ck did you find the time and commitment to write all this, I didn't read it all, but for what I've read, I tried to reply on the points that I do not agree on/or I thought you misunderstood or missed out on, but I cannot reply to it all, it's madness. I already got a headache typing so much, and trying to keep it clear.

In conclusion, as I said whether you like the story/characters is all opinion based, but I really do not agree that they are underdeveloped or inconsistent, because from my standpoint GTAV takes a more different approach on a story, not as cliche(well, at least certain aspects), not as typical in comparison to other GTA's. Peace out.

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spamtackey
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#34

Posted 06 November 2013 - 10:35 PM

 

 

I agree with you on all points. The beginning was good, but when Trevor stepped in it just felt too rushed. I mean when Trevor went into Michael's house? How the f*ck did he even find him?? How did he know he lived there?? He just appeared out of nowhere. Trevor is just a terrible protagonist. He would fit more as a side-character... But the fact that most fanboys love Trevor just makes me worry about the future of GTA's characters. Do us a favor Rockstar stop trying to please fans too much, go your own way like you were going with IV.

 
He knew where Michael lived because he sent Wade to find out where Michael was. Wade found out where a Michael De Santa lived and he matched the description. That's why Trevor went to Los Santos. Do you really expect us to know exactly how Wade found out Michael's address? I'll use GTA IV as an example, since you hold it up high:
 
How the f*ck did UL Paper find Darko? All of a sudden they just have him! It's ridiculous and makes Niko's whole search pointless. 
 
 
Off-screen stuff happens off-screen. ;)

Over all, I realize you like Trevor and I respect your responses and new perceptions...

But U.L. Paper is a government agent, Wade is literally a retarded hillbilly :p
I never needed an explanation how they found Michael, but put that in your logical explanation and smoke it!

 

 

Oh I definitely believe that UL Paper had more a chance of finding Darko than Wade finding someone. However, we just know that he found him off-screen. I just think that's one of the weirdest things to complain about in a game series where we are often not given any directions but know where to go anyway.  :lol:


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#35

Posted 06 November 2013 - 10:39 PM

Dear god, brilliant ! BRILLIANT !

I agree with you 100%. For a story composed of three protagonists, the game should have had MUCH more than 69 missions. I hope it wasn't intentional of Rockstar. Tongue in cheek 69 jokes ? f*ck off.

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#36

Posted 06 November 2013 - 10:43 PM

I see what you are saying they obviously went out of their way not to make V dark and gritty like IV because complained a lot. Some parts seem like blatant pandering to IV haters and sometimes even pandering to Saints Row fans. I still love the game though.


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#37

Posted 06 November 2013 - 11:01 PM

Really can't disagree with that. 


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#38

Posted 06 November 2013 - 11:10 PM

I see what you are saying they obviously went out of their way not to make V dark and gritty like IV because complained a lot. Some parts seem like blatant pandering to IV haters and sometimes even pandering to Saints Row fans. I still love the game though.

A big problem with this game. It should have been named Grand Theft Auto NOT GTA IV !


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#39

Posted 06 November 2013 - 11:47 PM

I agree on some points, and disagree on others. In particular, I think the friendship between the three protagonists (and Michael and Trevor in particular) is actually one of the game's greatest strengths.

 

Trevor is implied to be (and this is going to sound horribly cheesy, so bear with me), at his core, a sad and angry little boy who was elated at having finally found an actual friend in Michael, only to have the rug pulled out from under him. Michael, for his part, isn't proud of what he did, but as a parent, as a spouse, what else could he have done? He was no longer a twentysomething who could afford to stay in the life, even if it was the thing he was happiest doing.

 

Michael and Franklin's relationship probably could've been a bit more developed than it was, but Franklin, as Michael himself says, is the son he wished he had. It's also a safe bet that Michael in his youth was much like Franklin; someone who wanted to get the glory and make a name for himself.

 

Maybe the game would've stood to benefit from toning down the OTT aspects in favor of developing these relationships, but I dunno.

 

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Maggot899
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#40

Posted 06 November 2013 - 11:49 PM

I'm glad people can talk about these points like adults. I love this game and it just might be my favorite but it obviously has flaws. I still don't get why it is called broken or unfinished though.
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woggleman
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#41

Posted 06 November 2013 - 11:54 PM

 

I see what you are saying they obviously went out of their way not to make V dark and gritty like IV because complained a lot. Some parts seem like blatant pandering to IV haters and sometimes even pandering to Saints Row fans. I still love the game though.

A big problem with this game. It should have been named Grand Theft Auto NOT GTA IV !

 

Blame the many people who endlessly bashed IV. Rockstar actually did listen to the fans for better or worse.


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#42

Posted 07 November 2013 - 12:15 AM

See, see this thread? This is what I like to see. I'm sick of all the pointless bitching on this forum, but here, this is anactual in depth look, discussion and explanation on what went wrong and how it could have been better, making it a good interesting read and promotes a worthy discussion. Thank you for showing me there is some sanity on this forum.
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ThroatSlasher2
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#43

Posted 07 November 2013 - 12:23 AM

 

 

I see what you are saying they obviously went out of their way not to make V dark and gritty like IV because complained a lot. Some parts seem like blatant pandering to IV haters and sometimes even pandering to Saints Row fans. I still love the game though.

A big problem with this game. It should have been named Grand Theft Auto NOT GTA IV !

 

Blame the many people who endlessly bashed IV. Rockstar actually did listen to the fans for better or worse.

 

I understand getting away from the gritty aspect of IV but.. seriously, they just took out too much features from IV. Why is the ability to let the engine running gone ? It was useful. Why are interactive hot dog stands gone ? Why are fast food chains gone ? For a game that punishes you so easily with death, you'd think they'd make you able to replenish your health easier. And the worst part is that I die so easily AND my health regenerates to 50%. Yet, sometimes, two or three punches in my face, and Im dead. Try to climb a 45° degree mountain steep, fall 2 meters and die. Get in a car crash at 50 mph, get ejected and die in mid air. All good stuff.

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#44

Posted 07 November 2013 - 01:40 AM

 

Oh I definitely believe that UL Paper had more a chance of finding Darko than Wade finding someone. However, we just know that he found him off-screen. I just think that's one of the weirdest things to complain about in a game series where we are often not given any directions but know where to go anyway.  :lol:

 

I think it makes sense actually :D The reason being, what Wade did, I presume, was call his not-retarded-not-hill-billy cousin, who would in turn search for people named Michael Townley, maybe in social network sites, telephone book or something like that, so it's not that far-fetched.


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#45

Posted 07 November 2013 - 01:47 AM

 

 

 

I see what you are saying they obviously went out of their way not to make V dark and gritty like IV because complained a lot. Some parts seem like blatant pandering to IV haters and sometimes even pandering to Saints Row fans. I still love the game though.

A big problem with this game. It should have been named Grand Theft Auto NOT GTA IV !

 

Blame the many people who endlessly bashed IV. Rockstar actually did listen to the fans for better or worse.

 

I understand getting away from the gritty aspect of IV but.. seriously, they just took out too much features from IV. Why is the ability to let the engine running gone ? It was useful. Why are interactive hot dog stands gone ? Why are fast food chains gone ? For a game that punishes you so easily with death, you'd think they'd make you able to replenish your health easier. And the worst part is that I die so easily AND my health regenerates to 50%. Yet, sometimes, two or three punches in my face, and Im dead. Try to climb a 45° degree mountain steep, fall 2 meters and die. Get in a car crash at 50 mph, get ejected and die in mid air. All good stuff.

 

 

When you think about it, almost every feature of GTA V feels changed in some ways. Even the smallest ones.

 

-Driving is different

-Hand-to-Hand combat is different

-Shooting is different

-Climbing is different

-Weapon selection is different

-Buying Food is different (we can buy candy) 

-When you call for a taxi it no longer appears instantly on the mini-map to show you where it is and how far it has to come. 

-Missions begin differently (more seamlessly)

-Choices are handled differently 

 

For better or worse they were putting their all into getting away from GTA IV. Perhaps too much. *shrug*

 

 

 

 

Oh I definitely believe that UL Paper had more a chance of finding Darko than Wade finding someone. However, we just know that he found him off-screen. I just think that's one of the weirdest things to complain about in a game series where we are often not given any directions but know where to go anyway.  :lol:

 

I think it makes sense actually :D The reason being, what Wade did, I presume, was call his not-retarded-not-hill-billy cousin, who would in turn search for people named Michael Townley, maybe in social network sites, telephone book or something like that, so it's not that far-fetched.

 

 

It's definitely pretty easy to find people nowadays with social networking at all. Still probably easier for the government to locate you, but not impossible for others. 


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#46

Posted 07 November 2013 - 01:52 AM

Hot dog stands - Yeah it was a nice touch, but with the console Limitations on V it seems they can't spawn a hotdog stand on every Street, you can see some at the beach though.

 

Restaurants - Were nice but after SA they were pretty much useless, still a nice addition..


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#47

Posted 07 November 2013 - 02:11 AM

 

 

 

I see what you are saying they obviously went out of their way not to make V dark and gritty like IV because complained a lot. Some parts seem like blatant pandering to IV haters and sometimes even pandering to Saints Row fans. I still love the game though.

A big problem with this game. It should have been named Grand Theft Auto NOT GTA IV !

 

Blame the many people who endlessly bashed IV. Rockstar actually did listen to the fans for better or worse.

 

I understand getting away from the gritty aspect of IV but.. seriously, they just took out too much features from IV. Why is the ability to let the engine running gone ? It was useful. Why are interactive hot dog stands gone ? Why are fast food chains gone ? For a game that punishes you so easily with death, you'd think they'd make you able to replenish your health easier. And the worst part is that I die so easily AND my health regenerates to 50%. Yet, sometimes, two or three punches in my face, and Im dead. Try to climb a 45° degree mountain steep, fall 2 meters and die. Get in a car crash at 50 mph, get ejected and die in mid air. All good stuff.

 

 

Not to mention falling straight on your face or arms knocks out your body armor now...
But this forum was mainly meant to point out the flaws in the story delivery. 


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#48

Posted 07 November 2013 - 02:17 AM

Agreed with the ending being horrible. As I was pushing the car into the water all I could think was. "Wait, why are we doing this?"


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#49

Posted 07 November 2013 - 03:07 AM

 

 

 

 

I see what you are saying they obviously went out of their way not to make V dark and gritty like IV because complained a lot. Some parts seem like blatant pandering to IV haters and sometimes even pandering to Saints Row fans. I still love the game though.

A big problem with this game. It should have been named Grand Theft Auto NOT GTA IV !

 

Blame the many people who endlessly bashed IV. Rockstar actually did listen to the fans for better or worse.

 

I understand getting away from the gritty aspect of IV but.. seriously, they just took out too much features from IV. Why is the ability to let the engine running gone ? It was useful. Why are interactive hot dog stands gone ? Why are fast food chains gone ? For a game that punishes you so easily with death, you'd think they'd make you able to replenish your health easier. And the worst part is that I die so easily AND my health regenerates to 50%. Yet, sometimes, two or three punches in my face, and Im dead. Try to climb a 45° degree mountain steep, fall 2 meters and die. Get in a car crash at 50 mph, get ejected and die in mid air. All good stuff.

 

 

Not to mention falling straight on your face or arms knocks out your body armor now...
But this forum was mainly meant to point out the flaws in the story delivery. 

 

Yeah sorry for the little off topic there but .. damn .. it seems as though they spent so much time looking back at IV, focusing on what not to do that they weren't looking at what they we're making, hence why GTA V is a confused product. Horrible storyline, horrendous antagonists ( if you can call'em that ), weird physics, overly complicated online.. the list goes on.

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#50

Posted 07 November 2013 - 03:15 AM

I heard that Rockstar reads these forums, so hopefully they stumble upon several of the critique threads.


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#51

Posted 07 November 2013 - 03:34 AM

I really think the story took a turn for the worse when they started doing things for the FIB. Everything up until that point was great. We got to see Franklin trying to escape the ghetto. Although it could've been expanded upon. Michael's dysfunctional family issues and Trevor dealing with The Lost and issues surrounding TPE. Funnily enough I think the weakest part of the story was when they all came together.

 

I would've preferred if the story wasn't about heists and three over arcing stories like GTA IV/EFLC. I liked their individual stories for the most part, but when they started becoming errand boys for the FIB it just felt like it had lost the plot (No pun intended).

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#52

Posted 07 November 2013 - 03:38 AM Edited by TonyMontanaCDL, 07 November 2013 - 03:47 AM.

You lost me the minute you said GTA IV was perfect with a hybrid storyline.

 

Both IV and V suffered the exact same identity crisis. Neither one of them had a brilliant story. i don't get why IV gets all the praise it gets. Go watch High Noon, and some good movies and you'll see exactly why the game itself was terrible. The storyline sucked and the entire game centered around this "I'm a bad guy but I want to be a good guy now but I still have to kill people and live a mob life". It got old when they ruined Vic Vance with it, and Red Dead Redemption had the same half assed crap that effected it.

 

The antagonists in GTA IV, V and Red Dead were all predictable and you seen it a mile ahead how things were going to happen. Unless you're a young kid and haven't watched any movies outside the few that the game series rips off, the games were incredibly predictable with their liner storylines that flat out sucked.

 

For a series named after a felony, I don't want a super serious storyline. This is what ruined IV for me. it was so serious yet couldn't determine if it wanted to be a comedy or a drama and at the same time, it was boring and centered around stereotypical characters and predictable outcomes. Plus it dragged on forever. It was so boring, and when you finally get an awesome mission (Three Leaf Clover) the game is still so boring and there's nothing to do besides drool at shiny graphics while listening to a bad melodrama played out.

 

What made the old games fun was the storyline wasn't the main focus. The characters themselves in the older games were caricatures and they were not meant to be taken seriously. Only kids took that crap seriously. The games themselves are meant to be like a parody of crime itself and that's why people play these games; to get away with things impossible in the real world. No one gives a flying f*ck about a stupid sob story centered around an immigrant fresh off the boat, or some burnt out bank robber that has an insane ego, or the sob story between Trevor. People enjoyed John Marston cause he was different at first, and they still managed to f*ck that up.

 

 

People don't play these games for the storylines and the stories have flat out sucked for many of the games. When the entire game centers around a half assed storyline with wooden characters and card board cut out antagonists, the entire game itself suffers tremendously.

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#53

Posted 07 November 2013 - 03:40 AM

I really think the story took a turn for the worse when they started doing things for the FIB. Everything up until that point was great. We got to see Franklin trying to escape the ghetto. Although it could've been expanded upon. Michael's dysfunctional family issues and Trevor dealing with The Lost and issues surrounding TPE. Funnily enough I think the weakest part of the story was when they all came together.

 

I would've preferred if the story wasn't about heists and three over arcing stories like GTA IV/EFLC. I liked their individual stories for the most part, but when they started becoming errand boys for the FIB it just felt like it had lost the plot (No pun intended).

 

 

Which is why the DLC structure of EFLC, in my opinion, worked better in this "individual yet the same" regard. Their stories meshed, but each gameplay experience was kept separate, not tempted to make players utilize the switch-wheel for the sake of utilizing the switch-wheel. 


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#54

Posted 07 November 2013 - 03:40 AM

 

Both IV and V suffered the exact same identity crisis. Neither one of them had a brilliant story.

 

 

 

 

GTA IV does IMO. I'd even give TLAD a nod. None of the stories in any GTA have drawn me in like these two.

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Tashan
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#55

Posted 07 November 2013 - 03:41 AM

f*ck that long read
this is insane for just a game why so much detailing on mediocre story?
atleast i dont play gta for story.
I just need more gameplay with decent story, thats it
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Drunken Cowboy
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#56

Posted 07 November 2013 - 03:42 AM

 

 

People don't play these games for the storylines

 

Facepalm_227785.jpg


TheOtherRyan
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#57

Posted 07 November 2013 - 03:46 AM

Honestly I don't see the point of a GTA game if its story isn't engaging or interesting. Why do people think I don't think highly of GTAs like SA and TBOGT? For me the story is the most important part. The open world is f*cking useless if I have no drive to play the story or don't find it engaging.

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TonyMontanaCDL
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#58

Posted 07 November 2013 - 03:49 AM

 

 

What is this game's theme?

 

Addiction, whether to a drug, a way of life, or a kind of behaviour.

 

Don't forget criticizing the way the government operates. This game was a huge commentary on how America's government sucks, and you get addicted to lifestyle choices.

 

 

America's government does suck and almost every game before it has pretty much mirrored exactly why our country is so f*cked up.


TonyMontanaCDL
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#59

Posted 07 November 2013 - 03:52 AM

atleast i dont play gta for story.
I just need more gameplay with decent story, thats it

 

Don't tell that to the kids that don't know how to search for classic films and actually read a f*cking book.

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TonyMontanaCDL
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#60

Posted 07 November 2013 - 03:54 AM

 

 

 

People don't play these games for the storylines

 

Facepalm_227785.jpg

 

 

This is the only forum I know of on the internet where people take these stories seriously. They are mocked and laughed about all around the net.

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