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The Identity Crisis: The Problems with V's story.

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Official General
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#541

Posted 01 January 2014 - 06:21 PM Edited by Official General, 01 January 2014 - 06:22 PM.

It's funny how a lot of people murder tons of innocent people during the game but have a problem with a Trevor being an unrepentant violent criminal. Do all the cops you murder during the game who are just doing their jobs deserve to die. Did the cops Niko murdered during Three Leaf Clover deserve to die and did the jurors Tommy Vercetti murdered in Vice City from the phone missions deserve to die? Of course not but it is a game and not real life. If anybody did in real life what we do in the game we would be serving life or waiting for the needle. 

 

When you think about it every GTA protagonist is pretty much a horrible person but the game is popular because it allows us to explore our dark side and Trevor is as dark and depraved as you can get.

 

You'e normally smarter than that to post such a bit of a silly comment. You're sounding a bit like that guy Tenxax here. Come on bro, you're more intelligent than that, even though we tend not to agree on many things. 

 

I'm gonna quote an earlier post by Odyssey to respond to this :

 

Since when do the cops in GTA V have lives outside of their jobs? They're randomly generated peds, not a significant character with a deep and sentimental story. Floyd had a story and that's why people thought it was a dick move to kill him. Also, he did play a significant role In the story. And even if he didn't, how does that justify him not having a backstory? 


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#542

Posted 01 January 2014 - 06:34 PM

Just because the game doesn't give them a story does not mean they are not people. You see cops dragging their partner's bodies behind cover during shootouts. 

 

Also what about Claude and how he murders the brother of Azuka on the orders of some sleazy business man even after she pretty much saved his life? That was a dick move. 


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#543

Posted 01 January 2014 - 07:53 PM Edited by Official General, 01 January 2014 - 09:59 PM.

Just because the game doesn't give them a story does not mean they are not people. You see cops dragging their partner's bodies behind cover during shootouts. 

 

Also what about Claude and how he murders the brother of Azuka on the orders of some sleazy business man even after she pretty much saved his life? That was a dick move. 

 

Listen mate, it's still only a game. As far as incidents personal to the player during gameplay are concerned, it can only cover what it's supposed to cover in closer focus. People who murder innocent peds with intent in GTA are not really who I'm referring to. I'm assuming those who I'm referring to just play the game as normal without all that, and many of them do. Not everyone who plays GTA likes to deliberately kill innocent peds, and I'm sure that many do not. 

 

It is very clear to see that in GTA III, Claude personality was that of a totally independent career criminal in every sense of the meaning, as he was not bound by anything. He owed no absolute loyalty and commitment to anyone, or any gang/criminal organization - the guy never even spoke a word, he just did as he was instructed. Claude was simply a quick-thinking and smart enough criminal that seized the opportunity to take advantage of any situation that best served his self-interests or benefit. If that meant him secretly murdering Azuka's brother for Donald Love, even though she saved his life, then so be it. Yeah I agree with your opinion that it was kinda stupid, but it was very understandable as to why Claude did what he did, as I've already explained.

 

Unlike Trevor, who basically kills an innocent man and his girlfriend for a very pointless reason. Trevor just comes into Floyd's life from nowhere, intimidates and bullies him into helping him with his heists, makes his life a living hell, and then he brutally kills him and his girlfriend for no real reason, other than the simple, mere fact that he was told to leave the couple's apartment. 

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#544

Posted 01 January 2014 - 11:24 PM Edited by Dr. Robotnik, 01 January 2014 - 11:31 PM.

I think there's a difference, in the context of the game's world, between killing a cop and killing someone like Floyd. The cop knew the risks when he signed up for the job, was aware that he put his life on the line in doing so, and was probably on the take anyway. That doesn't necessarily make it "okay", but I accept that as part of the universe, and I knew that was going to happen when I played the game.

 

Floyd never had that kind of a choice. Some creepy guy he didn't know from Adam came out of nowhere and barged into his life just because he had the misfortune to be related to one of his slaves.

 

And beyond that, while I'm not necessarily defending Niko or Michael or any of Trevor's more sympathetic contemporaries, at least they're emotionally affected by killing people, and they certainly wouldn't do what Trevor did to Floyd. Now, that may not absolve them of all the other bad things they do, and I can understand if some players don't sympathize with them any more than Trevor, but I personally would rather have a character meet me halfway and be identifiable as human than just be completely off the deep end like Trevor.

 

Finally, the game goes out of its way to make Trevor look like the bad guy to the audience. There are ways to make violence look somewhat light-hearted, innocent, humorous, or justified (like the third Saints Row game), and the writers don't take them here. They portray what Trevor does as unjust and villainous (by showing Ashley crying over Johnny's body or having him attack the Lost when they're openly mourning their dead), and they still expect the viewer to sympathize with him.

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#545

Posted 02 January 2014 - 12:14 AM Edited by Drunken Cowboy, 05 January 2014 - 05:45 AM.

Of course the cops are "people", logically, but GTA itself treats them as disposable units.

They make them corrupt assholes to a (hopefully) unrealistic degree. 

 

"Man, I sure do love to beat civilians."

"KILLING PEOPLE MAKES MY DICK HARD!"

"I GOT A SHOT AIMED RIGHT AT YOUR BALLS, f*ckER!"

"The dipsh*t- I mean, 'suspect' has a weapon!"

 

(There are certain lines like "tell my wife I love her, okay?" which seem to totally contradict the other ones, oddly enough. I don't have an explanation for those, but the ends justify those means.)

 

And that's just what I remember from Liberty, the fat, slow cops. The roid-rage west coasters are the real murdering maniacs.

GTA is a game were fighting the law is a crucial part. They have to give you honest reason to show little remorse when killing them. 

In games less focused on killing the law, they try to make them more realistic and "human", Manhunt, Red Dead Redemption, and sh*t, L.A. Noire.

 

 

In a story, you're forced into a perspective. You're supposed to either sympathize with, or at least, understand the criminals', the "bad guys'" motives.

I just replayed a game called "Destroy All Humans!" (PS2 classic, play it!) You're an alien. You go around murdering a bunch of humans; especially cops. But you are encouraged to do so. That's the game and the perspective you were forced to sympathize with. It was fun ride exploding men's heads all over the 1950's landscape and them having the media blame it on Communism.

 

I don't care that Trevor killed cops, or that Michael, or Franklin, or Niko, or Tommy- whatever.

I don't care that Trevor killed the O'Niels or the Aztecas. They were hostile toward him. Maybe the O'Niels have a backstory, but from what we know, they're victimizing Trevor, so T is the good guy.

But Johnny and the Lost have a deep backstory, one that took up a whole f*cking game. And Floyd's backstory is not explored, but presented. He's a softie who works a hard, blue-collar job with an abusive girlfriend. Why don't we like Trevor for killing them? Johnny, Terry, Clay, the Lost, they all have their own sophisticated backstories and motives, and the circumstances under which they're killed are too unbelievable.

Trevor shoots Johnny in a wild-west style duel showdown? Fine. Johnny inexplicably becomes a druggie, moves out west, with his dumbass girlfriend he ditched in IV, and he gets just creamed? f*ck that. Terry and Clay run with their tails between their legs just to be killed by a little bumper tap? f*ck that. Floyd is an innocent man who has his life swiftly destroyed and gets murdered as some sort of justice consolation? f*ck that. 


They portray what Trevor does as unjust and villainous (by showing Ashley crying over Johnny's body or having him attack the Lost when they're openly mourning their dead), and they still expect the viewer to sympathize with him.

 

Out of all the Lost bullsh*t, I really think the hardest to justify is that funeral mission. "lol lets kill everywun kuz extra mission in this sh*t, watered down game" 

The Lost are already in travesty and disarray. Their leaders are dead, their business is destroyed, and when they try to mourn, Trevor just kills all of them for like the f*cking sake of killing sh*t. (Like that doesn't happen anywhere else in this game.) 

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#546

Posted 02 January 2014 - 12:17 AM

-snip-

 

Awesomeness

 

Marry me.


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#547

Posted 02 January 2014 - 12:24 AM

 

-snip-

 

Awesomeness

 

Marry me.

 

 

 

9ec.jpg


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#548

Posted 02 January 2014 - 12:25 AM

9ec.jpg

 

 

Girls asking guys to marry them is gay now?

 

I never got the memo  :panic:  :panic:  :panic:


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#549

Posted 02 January 2014 - 12:48 AM

dafuq man? she wants to marry a smart person

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#550

Posted 02 January 2014 - 12:50 AM

Trevor never wanted to kill Floyd. Didn't you guys pay attention?

 

When he sees Floyd waving a knife around and his crazy wife with a pistol, Trevor goes mad, angry, he cannot control himself, and ends up murdering both. Then he gets out with a "sh*t, I've done it again" expression in his face. He is clearly not happy. He treated Floyd like sh*t just like he did with Ron and Wade, but he liked him, and he didn't want to kill him. He went out of control and sh*t happened and he probably regrets killing him (not Debra, she was a bitch).

 

Also, what would you do if you had a crazy bitch with a gun and a guy with a knife trying to kill you? Of course, Trevor probably had it coming, but don't expect he is going to go "you know, I was wrong and I deserve it" and let them kill him right there.

 

And I like Trevor because he is an asshole and is honest about it, just like you guys like mass murderers who claim to be the good guys.

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#551

Posted 02 January 2014 - 01:06 AM

 

9ec.jpg

 

 

Girls asking guys to marry them is gay now?

 

I never got the memo  :panic:  :panic:  :panic:

 

 

Looooool  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

 

I think he thought you were male, that's all it was. Still funny tho !


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#552

Posted 02 January 2014 - 02:02 AM

9ec.jpg

 
Girls asking guys to marry them is gay now?
 
I never got the memo  :panic:  :panic:  :panic:

FALSE! Girls don't exist in the internet!
Or at least that was my assumption...

Trevor never wanted to kill Floyd. Didn't you guys pay attention?
 
When he sees Floyd waving a knife around and his crazy wife with a pistol, Trevor goes mad, angry, he cannot control himself, and ends up murdering both. Then he gets out with a "sh*t, I've done it again" expression in his face. He is clearly not happy. He treated Floyd like sh*t just like he did with Ron and Wade, but he liked him, and he didn't want to kill him. He went out of control and sh*t happened and he probably regrets killing him (not Debra, she was a bitch).
 
Also, what would you do if you had a crazy bitch with a gun and a guy with a knife trying to kill you? Of course, Trevor probably had it coming, but don't expect he is going to go "you know, I was wrong and I deserve it" and let them kill him right there.
 
And I like Trevor because he is an asshole and is honest about it, just like you guys like mass murderers who claim to be the good guys.


Like Johnny, it's not killing him, it's the principle and the circumstance...
Oh, and you know, he sorta ruined Floyd's life for personal gain before he killed him.
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#553

Posted 02 January 2014 - 02:12 AM

We only exist on Instagram  :lol:

 

I don't see how people are defending Trevor.  He really showed no remorse for killing Floyd, and basically lies to Wade for the rest of the story about what he did, simply cleaning up his f*cked up mess by giving him VIP access to the Vanilla Unicorn.

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#554

Posted 02 January 2014 - 02:21 AM

GTA 5 is the first Game to make a Protagonist kill another Protagonist (fun fact)

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#555

Posted 02 January 2014 - 02:44 AM

GTA 5 is the first Game to make a Protagonist kill another Protagonist (fun fact)

 

If you're talking GTA series: "wut no weigh how u find dis out u so smart!1!111!!"

If that's true for all games: Huh. Cool. Wish it was under less sh*tty circumstances. 


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#556

Posted 02 January 2014 - 04:10 AM Edited by Zodape, 02 January 2014 - 04:11 AM.

Yep, he ruined his life. And it was funny as hell. Just like when he gets out covered in his blood. That was funny as f*ck.

 

That's another reason why I like Trevor: he is so sick, that it's actually funny. You guys should stop looking soo seriously at the story and maybe, just maybe, you would enjoy it. Sometimes I think some people expected some kind of serious Shakespeare master piece.

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#557

Posted 02 January 2014 - 04:25 AM

Yep, he ruined his life. And it was funny as hell. Just like when he gets out covered in his blood. That was funny as f*ck.

 

That's another reason why I like Trevor: he is so sick, that it's actually funny. You guys should stop looking soo seriously at the story and maybe, just maybe, you would enjoy it. Sometimes I think some people expected some kind of serious Shakespeare master piece.

 

Me and you differ greatly on this part. I did not find that part funny at all, not one bit. That part was the one thing that made me hate him even more. I just don't find really sick, shock factor stuff funny in general. Trevor did make laugh a few times, but there was much more things I hated and disliked about him that overshadowed whatever funny moments he provided. 

 

Sorry bro, I just hate Trevor, and I don't think he's that funny. 

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#558

Posted 02 January 2014 - 04:29 AM

 

Yep, he ruined his life. And it was funny as hell. Just like when he gets out covered in his blood. That was funny as f*ck.

 

That's another reason why I like Trevor: he is so sick, that it's actually funny. You guys should stop looking soo seriously at the story and maybe, just maybe, you would enjoy it. Sometimes I think some people expected some kind of serious Shakespeare master piece.

 

Me and you differ greatly on this part. I did not find that part funny at all, not one bit. That part was the one thing that made me hate him even more. I just don't find really sick, shock factor stuff funny in general. Trevor did make laugh a few times, but there was much more things I hated and disliked about him that overshadowed whatever funny moments he provided. 

 

Sorry bro, I just hate Trevor, and I don't think he's that funny. 

 

Well, we all like different things. I forgive you.  :catloaf:


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#559

Posted 02 January 2014 - 04:37 AM

 

 

Yep, he ruined his life. And it was funny as hell. Just like when he gets out covered in his blood. That was funny as f*ck.

 

That's another reason why I like Trevor: he is so sick, that it's actually funny. You guys should stop looking soo seriously at the story and maybe, just maybe, you would enjoy it. Sometimes I think some people expected some kind of serious Shakespeare master piece.

 

Me and you differ greatly on this part. I did not find that part funny at all, not one bit. That part was the one thing that made me hate him even more. I just don't find really sick, shock factor stuff funny in general. Trevor did make laugh a few times, but there was much more things I hated and disliked about him that overshadowed whatever funny moments he provided. 

 

Sorry bro, I just hate Trevor, and I don't think he's that funny. 

 

Well, we all like different things. I forgive you.  :catloaf:

 

 

I'll tell you what I did find so funny though - the sight of Trevor running away like a scared lil' b*tch, when Franklin chases him down at the end of the game. I was like, "Where is your punk ass runnin' to ? You're not such a crazy badass killer now are ya !!??" 

 

Man, I was laughin' my head off. I laughed even harder when I saw him burn in the flames. 

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#560

Posted 02 January 2014 - 04:38 AM


C ENDING IS CANON AHHAHAHAHHAHAH OFFICIAL GENERAL YOU LOSE

 
In my game there is only one ending - Trevor dies. Sorry, but the option is written into the story never to be changed. 

Well then your gonna be really sore when Trevor returns in DLC!

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#561

Posted 02 January 2014 - 04:43 AM

 

 

C ENDING IS CANON AHHAHAHAHHAHAH OFFICIAL GENERAL YOU LOSE

 
In my game there is only one ending - Trevor dies. Sorry, but the option is written into the story never to be changed. 

Well then your gonna be really sore when Trevor returns in DLC!

 

 

Why would I be sore ? If he returns in DLC then fine, but I'd like to know how Rockstar can include him a way that makes sense with the main story. If they can find a suitable and plausible way of pulling it off, then I won't care. 

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#562

Posted 02 January 2014 - 06:51 AM

 

 

 

C ENDING IS CANON AHHAHAHAHHAHAH OFFICIAL GENERAL YOU LOSE

 
In my game there is only one ending - Trevor dies. Sorry, but the option is written into the story never to be changed. 

Well then your gonna be really sore when Trevor returns in DLC!

 

 

Why would I be sore ? If he returns in DLC then fine, but I'd like to know how Rockstar can include him a way that makes sense with the main story. If they can find a suitable and plausible way of pulling it off, then I won't care. 

 

 

Rockstar doesn't care about continuity errors. Super-hype made them millions on GTA's launch, and super-hype will make them millions on the DLC regardless. Even if the DLC is pure crap, eager first-day buyers will probably refund them the cost of the game.


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#563

Posted 02 January 2014 - 08:05 AM

 

 

-snip-

 

Awesomeness

 

Marry me.

 

 

 

9ec.jpg

 

Bro, a chick who likes Persona wants you to marry her and you call her gay. For shame.

 

On topic, after beating the game and letting all the hype and fanboyism that drove me in the months leading up to V's release die down, I have to say...I agree with you. At the very least, the story needed to be longer with more focus on each character as an individual with their own struggles and demons to battle. Months later, I'm still not sold on the whole Franklin/Trevor friendship. Trevor just seemed to pop up in Franklin's life occasionally, do his thing, and walk out, yet he basically considered him a mentor alongside Michael. Or at least, an 'anti' mentor, in the sense they're teaching him all the things he DOESN'T want to do or end up like.


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#564

Posted 02 January 2014 - 10:50 AM

A lot of Trevor's antics brought a smile to my face, even the most despicable ones. Not because I found them genuinely hilarious but because I didn't know how else to feel. 

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#565

Posted 02 January 2014 - 10:57 AM

A lot of Trevor's antics brought a smile to my face, even the most despicable ones. Not because I found them genuinely hilarious but because I didn't know how else to feel. 

Exactly how I feel. I don't get why people hate Trevor for killing Floyd and Debra. It's just a game.


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#566

Posted 02 January 2014 - 01:11 PM Edited by Official General, 02 January 2014 - 07:06 PM.

 

A lot of Trevor's antics brought a smile to my face, even the most despicable ones. Not because I found them genuinely hilarious but because I didn't know how else to feel. 

Exactly how I feel. I don't get why people hate Trevor for killing Floyd and Debra. It's just a game.

 

 

@ Gta_V_Fan_101

 

It's not real life ? Word ? Yeah thanks for telling us Colombo  :sarcasm:

 

You obviously don't understand how story-driven video games like GTA are supposed to work. They are designed and created in way to evoke an emotional response from the player regarding the characters, and the events that take place within the game. If people playing GTA get any kind of significant feelings from what they see and experience in playing the game, then Rockstar's objectives are clearly working. That is what they try to achieve, and they have successfully done that here in this case, because a lot of people hate Trevor.

 

In short, even though you know it's really just a game, there are moments where you are supposed to feel like it's not a game, hence why some people exhibit feelings about stuff within the game . That's the idea of GTA, you should know this by now. 

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#567

Posted 02 January 2014 - 01:45 PM

GTA 5 is the first Game to make a Protagonist kill another Protagonist (fun fact)


I killed Luis in GTA 4 ;)

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#568

Posted 02 January 2014 - 03:47 PM

GTA 5 is the first Game to make a Protagonist kill another Protagonist (fun fact)

I killed Luis in GTA 4 ;)

but killing luis isn't canon, soo yeah

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#569

Posted 02 January 2014 - 04:03 PM

I think a lot of people just have a problem with somebody that openly embraces their dark impulses. Michael is just as much of a sociopath as Trevor but Trevor is honest and open about what he is. Other protagonists seem to have some kind of story that makes you feel sympathy while T is who he is. I like that about him and I also like the fact that he has no desire whatsoever to fit into polite society. Most other protagonists used crime as a ticket into the good life while Trevor utterly rejects that and fully embraces life on the margins. There are many criminals like that and I am glad GTA featured one. It's why a recreation of the Salton Sea is the perfect home for him.

 

We got our traditional protagonists in this game with Michael and Franklin so why not let R shake things up a bit with Trevor?


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#570

Posted 02 January 2014 - 07:20 PM

I think a lot of people just have a problem with somebody that openly embraces their dark impulses. Michael is just as much of a sociopath as Trevor but Trevor is honest and open about what he is. Other protagonists seem to have some kind of story that makes you feel sympathy while T is who he is. I like that about him and I also like the fact that he has no desire whatsoever to fit into polite society. Most other protagonists used crime as a ticket into the good life while Trevor utterly rejects that and fully embraces life on the margins. There are many criminals like that and I am glad GTA featured one. It's why a recreation of the Salton Sea is the perfect home for him.

 

We got our traditional protagonists in this game with Michael and Franklin so why not let R shake things up a bit with Trevor?

 

 

It's nothing to do with embracing my dark impulses, I have no problem doing that in GTA. I'm just not impressed or taken in by Trevor in any way. Just because Trevor is open and honest about who he is, it don't mean i should like or respect his character.





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