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The Identity Crisis: The Problems with V's story.

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woggleman
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#451

Posted 06 December 2013 - 12:51 AM

I have always that Trevor is like a playable version of GG Allin and I stand by it. 


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#452

Posted 06 December 2013 - 04:31 AM

Hey, of course Trevor has funny moments. When hardly anything that comes out of his mouth is intended to be taken seriously, a few jokes can be funny. ("It's not molesting those sailors if they're lonely, it's patriotism!") I never even thought the idea of Trevor was bad, and he seemed like an interesting character in the trailers.

 

Just once I got into the game, I see he really was a dumping ground for all their left-over ideas and dumb gags.

Maybe, I don't know, make him like Lynch from Kane and Lynch? (Hard to compare him to anybody else) Pretty loose-cannon, unpredictable, and off the cuff, but can still get sh*t done and doesn't do anything real irritating or radical to make him seem like some irritated little pre-teen sh*t.


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#453

Posted 06 December 2013 - 05:25 AM

Even though I have found to dislike Trevor as a character and human being over my second and third playthrough, I still find him funny sometimes. I'm sorry, but I just kept laughing during the part in the storyline where you can clearly see Trevor's arrival effects on Floyd's life and apartment. Blood stains everywhere, beer bottles, sh*t stains, dildos lying around. Just imagining the awful things Floyd had to live through during this moment had me giggle a lot

However, it is true that he doesn't make much sense. Trevor just seems like a character that is just a blend of ridiculous, over-the-top ideas that R* had. He's not just a deranged psychopath with anger issues, he's a dumb, bisexual, necrophiliac, meth addict, bully, bestialist and a raper. I think Trevor could have been a much more interesting character if he had been, let's say, a mix between the Joker and Hulk. He could have been an extremely intelligent psychopath, but if you f*ck with him too much, he gets very angry and can't control himself. That could easily have explained the fact he's so controlled during missions and heists BUT can also wreak havoc and kill people without remorse.

That apartment was certainly 'remodeled' with Trevor's unique interior decoration choices.

 

Had Trevor been developed in a similar way as you have mentioned he would have been more tolerable in my eyes. Do you think that there were originally two protagonists planned for GTAV (Red Car Guy and Balcony Guy from the first trailer) with Trevor developed much later in the development cycle? Given the year long gap between the first trailer and Trevors debut in the second trailer do you think there was insufficient time to develop consistency and relatibility in T's mannerisms, personality and characterisation?


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#454

Posted 06 December 2013 - 06:01 AM Edited by Zodape, 06 December 2013 - 06:03 AM.

I think that the last one to come up to Rockstar's mind would be Franklin, since he just stands there in the background while the spotlight is mostly on Michael and Trevor.

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#455

Posted 06 December 2013 - 07:16 PM

It was probably just Michael from the first trailer, and I would have been fine with that considering how I thought they failed with the three-dynamic.

 

I bet Franklin came up in their minds first, though. I keep saying it but it's true: this game really cheaply milks money from the San Andreas fanboys. Franklin's character trailer built him up as a Grove Street gangsta shooting Ballas. But of course, that occurred in like, two missions, and Franklin really gives no official relation to the Families.

 

Trevor was the idea dump. Seriously, you do not need to be a Nobel laureate to come up with "kill a bunch of hicks."

If I remember correctly, the first trailer doesn't even depict any of Blaine County, and maybe it was going to be Los Santos only (though it practically is anyway.)

 

I wonder if this is now the THING for the GTA franchise now, that it's always going to have to have multiple protagonists. Which; depending how they carry it, can be REALLY great, or REALLY bad.


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#456

Posted 06 December 2013 - 07:20 PM

I bet Franklin came up in their minds first, though.

Wrong, Michael was the first protagonist that came to their minds first  ;)


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#457

Posted 06 December 2013 - 07:30 PM

 

I bet Franklin came up in their minds first, though.

Wrong, Michael was the first protagonist that came to their minds first   ;)

 

 

First, in a competition between him and Trevor.

Yeah, Michael was their first, and it shows through his character development... not that it's hard to compete with Frank or T.


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#458

Posted 08 December 2013 - 09:43 AM Edited by Dr. Robotnik, 08 December 2013 - 09:44 AM.

I agree that Trevor probably did end up functioning as a dumping ground for various ideas, because I can't shake the feeling that the writers never came to a consensus on how they wanted his character to be seen by the audience. I've counted at least three ways they try to portray Trevor; none of them are necessarily mutually exclusive, but they don't really mesh with each other either.

 

1. When first introduced, Trevor comes across as horrible even by the standards set by the franchise, and the writers seem to go out of their way to emphasize the brutality of his actions (shots of Johnny's busted head with Ashley mourning over his body, him attacking the Lost in the middle of a funeral for their fallen brothers, complete with rain to set the mood). Even Trevor's first Rampage (set up by him demanding a drink from two hicks, who frantically try to apologize to him when staring down the barrel of his gun) comes across as pretty dark, and it's considerably more malicious in comparison to the other four.

 

This first characterization of Trevor paints him as a pretty serious and villainous (if hammy) character whose antics are generally played for drama.

 

2. The second characterization is much closer to the third and fourth Saints' Row games in tone; Trevor's actions are far more over the top and usually played for laughs, and he's portrayed as more of a crazy anti-hero in an equally crazy world who isn't meant to be taken seriously. All his other Rampages (against gangbangers trying to intimidate him, idiotic soldiers, and hipsters) seem more justified and sillier than the first one.

 

3. In the third characterization (also played for drama) Trevor's downright pitiable, coming across as a very troubled person desperate for a friend in a time of crisis, and as someone a bit more realistic (and sympathetic) than the above two portrayals paint him. Here his psychological problems are emphasized, his romantic side is shown, and his positive traits such as loyalty come into play.

 

So yeah. I do kind of get the sense that the writers threw a bunch of leftover ideas together for Trevor's character. Sometimes I felt this worked surprisingly well, sometimes not so much.


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#459

Posted 08 December 2013 - 06:01 PM

It's potentially interesting to consider that the majority of scenarios that starts depicting Trevor's psychological issues comes after he sets foot in Los Santos, almost as if this 'plastic city' as he calls it is inevitably the worst place for his state of mind to go through. Heck, everything that occurs later in the game, as well as his eventual fate, wouldn't have occurred had he simply stayed in Blaine County where he was in his prime time, with next to no psychological damage and trauma that surfaces. Exceptions being the conversations with the Bail Bond targets, who are mostly folks who disobeyed from the laws of society, i.e. the metropolis such as Los Santos.

 

Meanwhile, going into Los Santos also serves to accentuate his more for-the-fun-insanity side to the point where Trevor almost appear to embrace his constant breakings of the fourth wall.

The Rampages serves as a good example, where aside from the first one that occurs in Blaine County, the remaining four are all played for laughs with an extreme.

Yet at the same time keeping the whole "mother-fcker" issue at mind.

 

Overall I still maintain that having focused the story solely on Michael and Trevor would have been more effective instead on relying to Franklin to save the day.

Or at least turn Franklin as a neutral NPC that associates with Michael and Trevor under different contexts: with Michael, Franklin gets to experience a criminal life that goes beyond the hood, whereas with Trevor, it just keeps dragging him down to it.

Instead of being an actual playable character, Franklin would have served as some sort of a morality pet that hinges on the balance between Michael and Trevor, and therefor, the player's playstyle.

 

Other points regarding the flaws of GTA V's story regarding the ending ...

I would say that it is mostly the delivery rather than the actual context that is the more damaging of the two. The endings are just dropped onto the player's hand and plays out under such a short yet brutal fashion that completely undermines the events that transpired before, namely, the supposed "biggest score ever".

 

The ending choices plays out in such a way that they could have occurred whenever it felt like it and it still would have felt the same way; short and rushed, and pops come the end credits.

 

Of course maybe had the ending occurred a dozen more missions after the big score it may have allowed to better build-up and character development that leads to the inevitable outcome, but for the moment, the way it plays out, it could have occurred midway through the game and still would have looked so ... unfulfilling.

 

Mind you that I didn't had any gripes with the characterizations of Haines, Weston, or even Stretch. All three acts as the more 'cynical extreme' to Trevor, Michael and Franklin respectively, I liked that.

 

The Chinese kind of disappointingly came and went the same way the O'Neil brothers did, and kind of think of it, it's a bit of a missed opportunity that the Triads and Lost doesn't get into a skirmish, no matter how brief, regarding the appropriation and execution of Trevor, since both sides equally wanted him dead.

 

Other flaws comes in the handling of GTA IV's character, such as how Rocco was brought back just to get slapped around before being blown up just to please the fact that he didn't get his death sequence in Ballad of Gay Tony, or the United Liberty Paper Contact who went from office desk mission giver to an agent on the field, and disappointingly becomes a random headshot target.

 

Karen however had an all but too brief appearance, and I sort of wonder if she wouldn't have made for an ideal leading female GTA protagonist that folks seems so eager to have?

 

Speaking of Karen, was I the only one surprised that 'Mister K' didn't re-surfaced in the plot in one way or another?


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#460

Posted 10 December 2013 - 04:31 AM

Supposed "story addition DLC" planned for 2014... This should be interesting...


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#461

Posted 10 December 2013 - 04:40 AM

I agree that Trevor probably did end up functioning as a dumping ground for various ideas, because I can't shake the feeling that the writers never came to a consensus on how they wanted his character to be seen by the audience. I've counted at least three ways they try to portray Trevor; none of them are necessarily mutually exclusive, but they don't really mesh with each other either.

 

1. When first introduced, Trevor comes across as horrible even by the standards set by the franchise, and the writers seem to go out of their way to emphasize the brutality of his actions (shots of Johnny's busted head with Ashley mourning over his body, him attacking the Lost in the middle of a funeral for their fallen brothers, complete with rain to set the mood). Even Trevor's first Rampage (set up by him demanding a drink from two hicks, who frantically try to apologize to him when staring down the barrel of his gun) comes across as pretty dark, and it's considerably more malicious in comparison to the other four.

 

This first characterization of Trevor paints him as a pretty serious and villainous (if hammy) character whose antics are generally played for drama.

 

2. The second characterization is much closer to the third and fourth Saints' Row games in tone; Trevor's actions are far more over the top and usually played for laughs, and he's portrayed as more of a crazy anti-hero in an equally crazy world who isn't meant to be taken seriously. All his other Rampages (against gangbangers trying to intimidate him, idiotic soldiers, and hipsters) seem more justified and sillier than the first one.

 

3. In the third characterization (also played for drama) Trevor's downright pitiable, coming across as a very troubled person desperate for a friend in a time of crisis, and as someone a bit more realistic (and sympathetic) than the above two portrayals paint him. Here his psychological problems are emphasized, his romantic side is shown, and his positive traits such as loyalty come into play.

 

So yeah. I do kind of get the sense that the writers threw a bunch of leftover ideas together for Trevor's character. Sometimes I felt this worked surprisingly well, sometimes not so much.

I do agree with this. Every time I replay the storyline, Trevor acts in a certain way in his first missions, and after the Fame or Shame mission, he suddenly changes into a more funny and dark humour character. Don't forget that he is psychotic, so I find understandable the sudden change of mood/character, but still, in his first missions he acts a bit weird compared to the rest of the game.


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#462

Posted 10 December 2013 - 05:07 AM

I already knew before the game came out that Trevor would be over the top, but really ? He rapes men, bullies everyone in the game, eats human stew ... Human Stew

I just can't wrap my head around when I see a bunch of media articles praising Trevor as ''The best GTA Protagonist ever'' or ''One of the finest protagonists in gaming history''. I mean, if there's one thing Rockstar should never do again, is a character like Trevor. Please, no, everything but that.

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#463

Posted 10 December 2013 - 12:59 PM Edited by Official General, 11 December 2013 - 12:46 PM.

I already knew before the game came out that Trevor would be over the top, but really ? He rapes men, bullies everyone in the game, eats human stew ... Human Stew

I just can't wrap my head around when I see a bunch of media articles praising Trevor as ''The best GTA Protagonist ever'' or ''One of the finest protagonists in gaming history''. I mean, if there's one thing Rockstar should never do again, is a character like Trevor. Please, no, everything but that.

 

I really don't know what Rockstar were playing at when making Trevor. I just can't see the great appeal in his character. Okay he's wild, he's crazy and extremely violent, but how does that alone make him the 'ultimate badass' ?? Look at those nerdy, puny white kids from quiet suburban towns who suddenly switch, get guns and start shooting and killing innocent people and other kids for no reason - does that make them 'a real badass' ?? Some idiots on here just think anything to do with extreme violence and outlandish behavior is 'badass'. 

 

Please, I just hope I never see another protagonist like Trevor in GTA again. 

 

@ nobum

 

 

it's hilarious how people think that trevor can kill niko.

 
i mean, trevor is just a dirty hillbilly junkie who yells a lot. 

 

Yep, I agree. Niko would ice Trevor real nicely. 

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#464

Posted 11 December 2013 - 02:29 AM

I had to make an account due to this thread - Well f*cking done!

 

Haha, seriously though, that was a great read and honestly I agree 100% with all the points you brought up. The whole structure of this game was completely different to any of the previous GTA's and I also felt Rockstar were trying to be far too ambitious hence why GTA V is the Jack-of-all-trades but Master of none. I always felt there was something missing during my playthrough and I didn't know what it was, still don't tbh but this thread really opened my mind to a lot of the faults I feel the game has. I don't want to add too much because honestly everything I've been thinking after completing the game has pretty much been said. Basically I felt the story was just... unfocused.

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#465

Posted 11 December 2013 - 02:53 AM

If you're hating on Trevor, you ain't playing the game properly.  True that.


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#466

Posted 11 December 2013 - 03:44 AM

If you're hating on Trevor, you ain't playing the game properly.  True that.

 

I smell a fanboy.

If you're kissing Trevor's ass, justify it with some detail, as other posters have on this thread.

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#467

Posted 14 December 2013 - 02:48 AM

 

Other flaws comes in the handling of GTA IV's character, such as how Rocco was brought back just to get slapped around before being blown up just to please the fact that he didn't get his death sequence in Ballad of Gay Tony, or the United Liberty Paper Contact who went from office desk mission giver to an agent on the field, and disappointingly becomes a random headshot target.

 

 

Again, like Johnny, C* just probably just figured the appearance of these characters would be enough to make players cream their shorts. It's kind of like bringing a beautiful cake to a child's birthday party, taking a massive sh*t on it and then forcing him to eat it. I thought it was kind of interesting Rocco, one of the main antagonists, just "got away" in Gay Tony. Though, I figured it would also be interesting for him to take another antagonistic role in classic mob extortion here. But nah, just an empty clip of the auto-pistol into a back windshield.

And yeah, why is U.L. Paper on the west coast, running into modern art museums to shoot- why the f*ck were all the agencies there again? And why were they killing each other? And how did Trevor find Michael there? And why was Michael helping Trevor? This game...

 

 

Karen however had an all but too brief appearance, and I sort of wonder if she wouldn't have made for an ideal leading female GTA protagonist that folks seems so eager to have?

 

Speaking of Karen, was I the only one surprised that 'Mister K' didn't re-surfaced in the plot in one way or another?

 

I thought she was being used by the law in GTA IV after having committed crimes of her own, am I incorrect on this? If I'm not, why is she some big shot interrogating Mr. K?

And yeah, just another f*cking novelty that Mr. K mission was. "INTERACTIVE TORTURE! THIS GAME IS SO NEW AND EDGY! Oh, but we're political and stuff, and here's another chance to make Trevor look really badass and off-the-wall to hypocritically contradict his motives again."

43848600.jpg

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#468

Posted 14 December 2013 - 03:45 PM

 

 

Other flaws comes in the handling of GTA IV's character, such as how Rocco was brought back just to get slapped around before being blown up just to please the fact that he didn't get his death sequence in Ballad of Gay Tony, or the United Liberty Paper Contact who went from office desk mission giver to an agent on the field, and disappointingly becomes a random headshot target.

 

 

Again, like Johnny, C* just probably just figured the appearance of these characters would be enough to make players cream their shorts. It's kind of like bringing a beautiful cake to a child's birthday party, taking a massive sh*t on it and then forcing him to eat it. I thought it was kind of interesting Rocco, one of the main antagonists, just "got away" in Gay Tony. Though, I figured it would also be interesting for him to take another antagonistic role in classic mob extortion here. But nah, just an empty clip of the auto-pistol into a back windshield.

And yeah, why is U.L. Paper on the west coast, running into modern art museums to shoot- why the f*ck were all the agencies there again? And why were they killing each other? And how did Trevor find Michael there? And why was Michael helping Trevor? This game...

 

 

Karen however had an all but too brief appearance, and I sort of wonder if she wouldn't have made for an ideal leading female GTA protagonist that folks seems so eager to have?

 

Speaking of Karen, was I the only one surprised that 'Mister K' didn't re-surfaced in the plot in one way or another?

 

I thought she was being used by the law in GTA IV after having committed crimes of her own, am I incorrect on this? If I'm not, why is she some big shot interrogating Mr. K?

And yeah, just another f*cking novelty that Mr. K mission was. "INTERACTIVE TORTURE! THIS GAME IS SO NEW AND EDGY! Oh, but we're political and stuff, and here's another chance to make Trevor look really badass and off-the-wall to hypocritically contradict his motives again."

43848600.jpg

 

 

ok then, here's another inconsistency of trevor.

 

 

 

"omg u see torture is rong but im the wun ho riped ur teeth and waturboardid u with smiles on hueheuehuehueue"

- An inconsistent piece-of-sh*t character

 

 

"wtf u know fuking somebuddy elses wife is wierd but im the mann whoo fuked johnnys girferind with no problem, b4 attaking him wit botle lolololololololol"

 

-trevor

 

if you played

Spoiler
you'll know what i'm talking about


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#469

Posted 14 December 2013 - 03:47 PM

 

 

Other flaws comes in the handling of GTA IV's character, such as how Rocco was brought back just to get slapped around before being blown up just to please the fact that he didn't get his death sequence in Ballad of Gay Tony, or the United Liberty Paper Contact who went from office desk mission giver to an agent on the field, and disappointingly becomes a random headshot target.

 

 

Again, like Johnny, C* just probably just figured the appearance of these characters would be enough to make players cream their shorts. It's kind of like bringing a beautiful cake to a child's birthday party, taking a massive sh*t on it and then forcing him to eat it. I thought it was kind of interesting Rocco, one of the main antagonists, just "got away" in Gay Tony. Though, I figured it would also be interesting for him to take another antagonistic role in classic mob extortion here. But nah, just an empty clip of the auto-pistol into a back windshield.

And yeah, why is U.L. Paper on the west coast, running into modern art museums to shoot- why the f*ck were all the agencies there again? And why were they killing each other? And how did Trevor find Michael there? And why was Michael helping Trevor? This game...

 

-I don't think it really matters how Trevor found Michael. You know, he could have just asked Lester or something. He can basically track anyone. I'm more concerned about how Wade the Retard managed to find Michael in a city he barely knew.

-Probably because Trevor was helping him not getting killed and he had to take all the help he could to defend himself from both the FIB and Merryweather? Unless I misunderstood your post and you meant something else.

 

 

Karen however had an all but too brief appearance, and I sort of wonder if she wouldn't have made for an ideal leading female GTA protagonist that folks seems so eager to have?

 

Speaking of Karen, was I the only one surprised that 'Mister K' didn't re-surfaced in the plot in one way or another?

 

I thought she was being used by the law in GTA IV after having committed crimes of her own, am I incorrect on this? If I'm not, why is she some big shot interrogating Mr. K?

And yeah, just another f*cking novelty that Mr. K mission was. "INTERACTIVE TORTURE! THIS GAME IS SO NEW AND EDGY! Oh, but we're political and stuff, and here's another chance to make Trevor look really badass and off-the-wall to hypocritically contradict his motives again."

 

-I think that part was suppossed to be funny, and considering how inconsistent is Trevor on purpose due to him being a psycho, then it could make sense. Also, maybe they could have added the torture part for the sake of making a torture part and add variety to the game. It wasn't edgy at all and I don't think it was intended to.

 


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#470

Posted 15 December 2013 - 01:16 AM

Josh's S and F missions did seem a little off for T, but I still can't get over things like Joe and Joseph. "How DARE you hurt these illegal immigrants?" *Tazes them and allows J and J to capture them.*

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#471

Posted 15 December 2013 - 02:25 AM Edited by nobum62, 15 December 2013 - 02:29 AM.

look at my crappy photoshop

 

8jbQWRM.png

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#472

Posted 15 December 2013 - 05:29 AM

look at my crappy photoshop

 

8jbQWRM.png

Man, Trevor's face always looked weird as f*ck in that screenshot. Even for Trevor.

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#473

Posted 15 December 2013 - 05:58 AM Edited by Drunken Cowboy, 15 December 2013 - 05:59 AM.

look at my crappy photoshop

 

8jbQWRM.png

 

Doesn't matter how bad it is. Had Lulz.

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#474

Posted 16 December 2013 - 10:35 AM

 

look at my crappy photoshop

 

8jbQWRM.png

 

Doesn't matter how bad it is. Had Lulz.

 

Me tu had LULZ. ;)

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#475

Posted 16 December 2013 - 04:51 PM Edited by carmelo3, 16 December 2013 - 04:55 PM.

Mentioned this in another thread, shoulda said it here but.....

 

Why the hell did R* let us, the player, know that Trevor was texting someone impersonating Brad, BEFORE Trevor himself found out he was actually dead.

 

Surely it would have made more of an impact if we found out at the same time as T. Because before Dave Norton told Michael, I was fully believing that brad was alive. Even had me thinking there was gonna be some sort of prison heist to bust him out.

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#476

Posted 16 December 2013 - 05:01 PM

Dunno, I kind of realised Brad died when he got popped by a sniper rifle.

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#477

Posted 16 December 2013 - 05:47 PM

i think its fair to compare the Storyline in V to other open world crime games and tbh its in the Middle 

 

IV  > Red Dead Redemption > Mafia 2 > Sleeping Dogs > V > saints row  1 And 2 > Just cause games > Saints row the turd 


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#478

Posted 16 December 2013 - 10:04 PM

i think its fair to compare the Storyline in V to other open world crime games and tbh its in the Middle 

 

IV  > Red Dead Redemption > Mafia 2 > Sleeping Dogs > V > saints row  1 And 2 > Just cause games > Saints row the turd 

 

i have not played mafia, saints row 1 and 2, sleeping dogs and just cause but i agree that saints row the turd is at the bottom of IV, RDR and even V


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#479

Posted 16 December 2013 - 10:41 PM

I don't know why but Trevor became my favourite character on my third play through, I realised Micheal is a scumbag, He used Trevor and Franklin. I don't know why Trevor didn't kill Micheal but Micheal was very quick to try and kill Trevor. Micheal try to save his own skin when Franklin pushed him over that railing. Trevor is bad but Micheal is a coward and deserves to die

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#480

Posted 19 December 2013 - 02:47 AM

I don't know why but Trevor became my favourite character on my third play through, I realised Micheal is a scumbag, He used Trevor and Franklin. I don't know why Trevor didn't kill Micheal but Micheal was very quick to try and kill Trevor. Micheal try to save his own skin when Franklin pushed him over that railing. Trevor is bad but Micheal is a coward and deserves to die

 

I still don't get this.

It's either Brad is dead, Michael goes to prison, abandons his family, and abandons Trevor.

Or, Brad is dead, Michael and his family go to Los Santos, and he abandons Trevor.

 

Either way, Trevor would have lost Michael. There is no real winning outcome for Trevor. However, since T is such a butthurt little baby, he wants to convince people otherwise.





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